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2012 U.S. Elections - President Obama Re-elected


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#21
Giordano
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They're not pro-fundamentalism, are they? Oh, and which taxes do they oppose?

They oppose taxing the rich, simply because they're rich themselves. What Americans have to realize, jobs aren't going to the immigrants they're being sent overseas by the corporations. Then we get told tax-breaking them will get our jobs back. :roll: They'd just get more money to send more jobs overseas.

Then we got the (universally hated) stupid "Obama's stealing our money by taxes". W Bush, Clinton, Bush, Regan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy, Eisenhower, Truman, Roosevelt, Hoover, Coolidge, Harding, and Wilson ALL robbed your money via taxes. Not only that, but Lincoln, Washington, King George, Louis XVII, Augustus, and King Solomon did the same [bleep]ing thing. Stop complaining over it, it's not going away. And if you still hate it, then please, overthrow the government. I'd like to see that and I'm not saying that sarcastically. But if you can't do that, find another way or stop crying about it.
"The cry of the poor is not always just, but if you never hear it you'll never know what justice is."
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#22
Assume Nothing
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I don't think the question is so much 'is my taxes going back to me' than it is 'is my taxes that I'm paying fair, and does it go towards a good cause?' The problems we have right now is significant government waste - and religiously aligned political parties have a strange tendency to give to inefficient causes like the Churches.

EDIT - I'm a little undecided on my personal views for taxation, so I wouldn't comment.

#23
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I don't think the question is so much 'is my taxes going back to me' than it is 'is my taxes that I'm paying fair, and does it go towards a good cause?' The problems we have right now is significant government waste - and religiously aligned political parties have a strange tendency to give to inefficient causes like the Churches.

EDIT - I'm a little undecided on my personal views for taxation, so I wouldn't comment.


Then we got the stupid "taxes are going to waste". W Bush, Clinton, Bush, Regan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy, Eisenhower, Truman, Roosevelt, Hoover, Coolidge, Harding, and Wilson ALL wasted the tax money on unessesary military growth, ineffiecent welfare, or private gain. Not only that, but Lincoln, Washington, King George, Louis XVII, Augustus, and King Solomon did the same [bleep]ing thing. Stop complaining over it, it's not going away. And if you still hate it, then please, overthrow the government. I'd like to see that and I'm not saying that sarcastically. But if you can't do that, find another way or stop crying about it.
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#24
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>we can't completely eradicate it -> we should do nothing about government waste.
>either suck up, or overthrow the government.

Definitely non-fallacious reasoning there.

#25
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I have registered republican and am voting for Ron Paul in Ca Primaries :mrgreen: ! I will not be voting in the general election.

if you want to change the world i don't think politics tends to give the most results per time or money. but, when you see a politician you really like - who you think is a good person - it is really hard not to support them. i want ron paul to win in the same way i've always wanted the good guys to win in the story books i've read. policy and everything else i couldn't care less about by comparison.

#26
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Who cares about them? All I know is that I'm paying taxes that goes towards paying for programs that I will never utilize.

You know, unless something impossible happens like you get very sick or lose access to health insurance. Nothing like that ever happens, it's not like medical emergencies are the #1 reason people go bankrupt in this country.

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#27
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If the primaries had lasted through May, I would have voted for Rick Santorum. The reason being is that Romney has a millstone around his neck from Romney-care.
On domestic issues, I'd probably line up with the highest with Ron Paul, but on foreign issues, next to nil. In this day and age, it is impossible to safely be an isolationist, and one of the primary roles for the President is Commander in Chief (which is why I could never vote for Ron Paul). If Iran gets a nuclear weapon, Israel will probably be a bit of scorched earth. I don't see Ron Paul trying to stop that from happening.


As far as the general election, Obama's hypocrisy on spending is astounding.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUPZJDBJI84

4T in 8 years, versus 6T in <4 years.

In order to win election, Mitt Romney has one job to do. Talk about the economy.
Two graphs I'd like to share, from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

First is the Unemployment rate from 1992 to 2012.
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While the number appears to be getting lower (good for Obama), what's really happening is far worse. Instead of people getting jobs, they're dropping out of the labor force (still unemployed, but not counted).
This second graph is the labor force participation rate, from 1992 to 2012.
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The other important elections are for the Senate. Of the 33 seats in play, 23 are held by Democrats. If the GOP picks up 4, they'll have a majority in the Senate. Expect this race to be interesting as well.
http://abcnews.go.co...92#.T4oJP8VHNXI

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#28
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impossible


Key word.




#29
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If I was American i would be voting for Ron Paul.

Flip flop mit, i don't know who in their right mind is voting for him. He changes his stance on issues so often and so fast that i don't think anyone who is for him even knows what his platform is.

Obama... I dont know who here on tip has the avatar but it sums him up quite nicely, "win the nobel peace prize, invade 3 countries". And his original slogan was "hope and change", this time it most likely will be "hope for change". Did he even follow through with any of the promises he made for his election?

Ron however has proven with his track record in the senet that he will try as hard as he can to fulfill his promises because he has been signing bills that follow his promises and against bills that don't since he entered office.

I hope your election won't be rigged like the last canadian elections.


To late. There have been so many problems and complaints made about the GOP so far that i'm surprised you havn't heard of them yet.

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#30
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I hope your election won't be rigged like the last canadian elections.

Well don't worry. Dead people and Disney characters only vote for Democrats.

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#31
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EDIT: In response to Ham's post: Yes, Parliamentary democracy is a far more flexible and sensible system than the Presidential system used in the Americas, France, Russia etc. There are myriad benefits to having a head of state who isn't also head of govt, as has been shown by the actions taken last Oct/Nov in Italy and Greece in response to crises. Going one step further, it's nice that the UK has a monarchy, because that way your head of state isn't some career politician, and rather a part of a traditional and cultural institution that's also good at taking action in a crisis.

One thing that's upsetting is the adaptation of the presidential system in countries with multiple large ethnic groups. Those perfectly straight borders literally drawn with pencil and ruler on a conference somewhere in Europe a century ago, divided peoples and put them in one system of government. Now they have to live in one country, and of course it makes perfect sense to take ONE leader with a massive amount of power instead of, say, a dozen ministers in a coalition government.

More on topic: as far as I know no candidate for the presidency has campaigned for, for example, gay marriage, the abolishment of death penalty and other basic things, so until they start doing that I can't take them seriously.
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#32
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In this day and age, it is impossible to safely be an isolationist, and one of the primary roles for the President is Commander in Chief (which is why I could never vote for Ron Paul). If Iran gets a nuclear weapon, Israel will probably be a bit of scorched earth. I don't see Ron Paul trying to stop that from happening.


I've never understood why people think that if Iran got a nuclear weapon they would launch it at Israel. Wouldn't they be ensuring their own destruction, then? the only would way that i see it happening is if mad men got a hold of one and everything (but we know the chances of that happening from historical precedent and simple analysis - next to nothing).

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as far as I know no candidate for the presidency has campaigned for, for example, gay marriage, the abolishment of death penalty and other basic things


The only one who has come close i believe, or at least heard about is Ron. What he wants to do is just get the federal government out of those decisions such as gay marriage and abortion and leave it up to individual states to decide on their stance on those issues.

mit as far as i'm aware is currently against both and i'm not sure on obama.

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#34
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In this day and age, it is impossible to safely be an isolationist, and one of the primary roles for the President is Commander in Chief (which is why I could never vote for Ron Paul). If Iran gets a nuclear weapon, Israel will probably be a bit of scorched earth. I don't see Ron Paul trying to stop that from happening.


I've never understood why people think that if Iran got a nuclear weapon they would launch it at Israel. Wouldn't they be ensuring their own destruction, then? the only would way that i see it happening is if mad men got a hold of one and everything (but we know the chances of that happening from historical precedent and simple analysis - next to nothing).

From a region of suicide bombers, do you think they care about their own destruction?

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#35
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While the number appears to be getting lower (good for Obama), what's really happening is far worse. Instead of people getting jobs, they're dropping out of the labor force (still unemployed, but not counted).

Posted Image
Taken off of the front page of whitehouse.gov. Seems to me like people are getting jobs. (And yes I understand your point of people dropping out of the labor force, but this still shows overall job growth.)


Obama... I dont know who here on tip has the avatar but it sums him up quite nicely, "win the nobel peace prize, invade 3 countries".

If you're going to choose a way to criticize Obama, pick a better one, he's not asking for a peace prize.

 


#36
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Taken off of the front page of whitehouse.gov. Seems to me like people are getting jobs.

High five for picking the most hyper-partisan source you could find.

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#37
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If you're going to choose a way to criticize Obama, pick a better one, he's not asking for a peace prize.


no, but I do believe one of his promises was to bring the troops home, not spread them thinner with even more campaigns.

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#38
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More on topic: as far as I know no candidate for the presidency has campaigned for, for example, gay marriage, the abolishment of death penalty and other basic things, so until they start doing that I can't take them seriously.


just because they don't campaign for those things doesn't mean they don't strongly believe in them. there are just certain things it's not politically viable to talk about in america (yet). so if you want to be a politician and try to do some good things, then you might end up having to compromise about what you talk about - but that's a compromise many politicians are willing to make, and a compromise which i applaud them for - because it is a compromise that must be made (for now) if we are to eventually reshape politics here (make it more accommodating to scientists, and so on).

The reason why some things are not viable to campaign about is more due to the powers that control large potions of the political sphere - and the way they brainwash the electorate - than with your average politician, mayor, presidential candidate, etc. But those people are dieing and younger people have more and more money and influence, so things are going in the right direction i think.

I suspect that Ron Paul, for example, would not be bothered by gay marraige rights, and that Obama might be much less religious than his compaign might want the public to believe. but there is a certain restraint with regards to gay marriage, and a certain religiosity that one must have, to campaign successfully on the national level right now. it's sad it's that way, but it's only through electing people with closeted faithlessness or support for gay marriage, that the demographics of politicians will change.

Sorry I feel like i rambled a bit! I just feel it's a bit premature to write candidates off because they don't support things that they can't support to be candidates in the first place!

#39
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impossible


Key word.



First, that's two words. Second, there wasn't a chance in hell jeb Bush was running this year, any candidate who has an actual shot is waiting for 2016 since the American people re-elect a first term president ~75% of the time. Third, Jeb Bush supports Romney fully so I doubt voting for one would be any different from the other. Fourth, why in the hell would we want another Bush in the office? We've already had two and the second one was disastrous.

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#40
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Taken off of the front page of whitehouse.gov. Seems to me like people are getting jobs.

High five for picking the most hyper-partisan source you could find.

That would really only be relevant if the information was incorrect. I could find other sources giving the same statistics if you want them. I'm debating here mostly to learn, so if you'd like to enlighten me on the real facts instead of picking out a single sentence from my post to make a pointless remark on, I'm listening.

 





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