The Evolution of Combat: BETA discussion

[Ambler]

Got 99 summoning in the beta, using the taverly method. 92-99 took about 3 hours.

Kinda miss being rich in the real rs. :lol:

[Platinum_Myr]

Now tell us how steel titan fairs considering the whole game is multicombat!

[Quyneax]

Now tell us how steel titan fairs considering the whole game is multicombat!

It's good at Nex and soul split heals you from titan specs, apparently.

 

How are Morrigan's javelins faring? In the normal game they are +105/+145 (as opposed to +120/+125 for ccbow+bak bolts) making them generally better dps apart from the effects (and maybe range is an issue).

[Ambler]

Titan damage is healed via soul split, hope this stays, and it makes unicorns obsolete, as the extra dps is amazing aswell. :lol:

[Miss Lioness]

I have one problem tho with multi-combat and then Frost Dragons in general...

 

If you use cannons and they have that blue orb out. No matter which dragon has it out. YOU still get that damage =d...

 

Opposed to the live game the cannon just hits 0's...

[Hedgehog]

If you notice a problem, do the right thing and report it. Don't just complain.

[Z_Berenice]

Meanwhile, at C9 Open Beta (that started the day after RS Combat Beta): http://youtu.be/dACSmMTi1k0

 

Kind of funny, rs is fun because of its simplicity and how "advanced" (graphic wise) it is for a browser game. That alone kept rs on a whole different level that discarded most comparisons. But now they want to enter the more dynamic, action based market of mmos... I hope they know what they are getting into...

[Cheefoo]

Meanwhile, at C9 Open Beta (that started the day after RS Combat Beta): http://youtu.be/dACSmMTi1k0

 

Kind of funny, rs is fun because of it's simplicity and how "advanced" (graphic wise) it was for a browser game. That alone kept rs on a whole different level that discarded most comparisons. But now they want to enter the more dynamic, action based market of mmos... I hope they know what they are getting into...

 

The thing is, Runescape isn't some generic combat-centric MMO. Combat is one of the many facets of the Runescape experience.

[Z_Berenice]

Meanwhile, at C9 Open Beta (that started the day after RS Combat Beta): http://youtu.be/dACSmMTi1k0

 

Kind of funny, rs is fun because of it's simplicity and how "advanced" (graphic wise) it was for a browser game. That alone kept rs on a whole different level that discarded most comparisons. But now they want to enter the more dynamic, action based market of mmos... I hope they know what they are getting into...

 

The thing is, Runescape isn't some generic combat-centric MMO. Combat is one of the many facets of the Runescape experience.

Exactly. However, they are now adding a new combat system that's following the pattern of combat-centric mmos... Personally, I think target locked/based mmos are starting to become a thing of the past, which is kind of sad, considering now that this path is being abandoned, runescape decides to jump on the last bandwagon.

 

Always found it curious how people claimed some sort of "skill" or being "good" at playing target locked/based mmos, but that's another story lol.

[Platinum_Myr]

I hope they know what they're getting into. And understand the feedback we have this time. A lot of their ideas have promise if they work. Multi-combat everywhere is excellent since it means unicorns/cannon and AOE abilities work everywhere. However, it has to be balanced against the fact that many monsters can do damage. Considering that prayer isn't 100% negation at the moment that makes it even worse. They have a lot to do with the interfaces, stat bonuses, and clarity of what weapons actually do.. before I think a lot of us will be happy.

 

I really hope they tone down the ability rate. Its hard to focus on it all...

[DavidHoff]

I hope they know what they're getting into. And understand the feedback we have this time. A lot of their ideas have promise if they work. Multi-combat everywhere is excellent since it means unicorns/cannon and AOE abilities work everywhere. However, it has to be balanced against the fact that many monsters can do damage. Considering that prayer isn't 100% negation at the moment that makes it even worse. They have a lot to do with the interfaces, stat bonuses, and clarity of what weapons actually do.. before I think a lot of us will be happy.

 

I really hope they tone down the ability rate. Its hard to focus on it all...

 

 

All of the above are true (perhaps) when you look at it from your perspective.

 

Now look at it from mine:

 

I'm next to you.

 

I'm slaying.

 

Before I kill my first mob but after I've attacked it, you come out with an MC or and AOE and take the kill. I'll say it's inadvetent. It happens again, and again, and again and ... like I said. See it from my perspective. Even innocently you can have a negative affect on my game. If you're not innocent you can just ruin it. One player on every world doing that in just one spot will cause a lot of bad feeling and more and ... nothing will be done about it apart from the person who should be punished is probably (in effect) being rewarded for their antisocial behaviour by being the one that gets the kills, the drops, has 'fun' etc.

 

'nuff said.

[decebal]

I agree, nothing feels worse than killing that one creature and then some dude decides to spoil the fun by getting the killing blow.

 

However, if Jagex can implement a tapping mechanic, where the first person or group to hit the target gets the "killing blow" xp and the loot, this shouldn't be a problem.

 

Then again, Jagex never said anything about a tapping mechanic.

[Hedgehog]

I hope they know what they're getting into. And understand the feedback we have this time. A lot of their ideas have promise if they work. Multi-combat everywhere is excellent since it means unicorns/cannon and AOE abilities work everywhere. However, it has to be balanced against the fact that many monsters can do damage. Considering that prayer isn't 100% negation at the moment that makes it even worse. They have a lot to do with the interfaces, stat bonuses, and clarity of what weapons actually do.. before I think a lot of us will be happy.

 

I really hope they tone down the ability rate. Its hard to focus on it all...

 

 

All of the above are true (perhaps) when you look at it from your perspective.

 

Now look at it from mine:

 

I'm next to you.

 

I'm slaying.

 

Before I kill my first mob but after I've attacked it, you come out with an MC or and AOE and take the kill. I'll say it's inadvetent. It happens again, and again, and again and ... like I said. See it from my perspective. Even innocently you can have a negative affect on my game. If you're not innocent you can just ruin it. One player on every world doing that in just one spot will cause a lot of bad feeling and more and ... nothing will be done about it apart from the person who should be punished is probably (in effect) being rewarded for their antisocial behaviour by being the one that gets the kills, the drops, has 'fun' etc.

 

'nuff said.

If you slay properly, that shouldn't be an issue. None of Kuradal's tasks can support more than one person.

[Vezon Dash]

Personally, I think you can have 2 at Hellhounds.

[ghjkl]

no at hellhounds the spawns are too slow, like 1/3 of the time the cannon isn't even firing and most of the time i dont even bother with titan because its a pain, and because it adds little benefit

[Vezon Dash]

no at hellhounds the spawns are too slow, like 1/3 of the time the cannon isn't even firing and most of the time i dont even bother with titan because its a pain, and because it adds little benefit

 

I was unaware that you could use a cannon in Kurdal's dungeon?

 

 

EDIT: I thought Mere was referring to tasks within Kurdal's dungeon.

[Ammako]

A majority of the people 'testing' the beta are just abusing a bug to get rares.

That's hardly a bug, considering it was meant to be that way.

 

And if you're talking of some other "bug" other than re-importing save data each time, the JMods did ask us to bug the heck out of the Beta so that glitches could be fixed.

[steviej]

I hope they know what they're getting into. And understand the feedback we have this time. A lot of their ideas have promise if they work. Multi-combat everywhere is excellent since it means unicorns/cannon and AOE abilities work everywhere. However, it has to be balanced against the fact that many monsters can do damage. Considering that prayer isn't 100% negation at the moment that makes it even worse. They have a lot to do with the interfaces, stat bonuses, and clarity of what weapons actually do.. before I think a lot of us will be happy.

 

I really hope they tone down the ability rate. Its hard to focus on it all...

 

 

All of the above are true (perhaps) when you look at it from your perspective.

 

Now look at it from mine:

 

I'm next to you.

 

I'm slaying.

 

Before I kill my first mob but after I've attacked it, you come out with an MC or and AOE and take the kill. I'll say it's inadvetent. It happens again, and again, and again and ... like I said. See it from my perspective. Even innocently you can have a negative affect on my game. If you're not innocent you can just ruin it. One player on every world doing that in just one spot will cause a lot of bad feeling and more and ... nothing will be done about it apart from the person who should be punished is probably (in effect) being rewarded for their antisocial behaviour by being the one that gets the kills, the drops, has 'fun' etc.

 

'nuff said.

If you slay properly, that shouldn't be an issue. None of Kuradal's tasks can support more than one person.

 

 

Not to mention that the world has gotten so big that you can pretty much get a spot alone if you're smart about it. I go to 1500 skill level worlds when i need a resource or area for a lower level skill, since the area is usually open. I go to crowded trading worlds for combat, since npcs spawn quicker, and everyone on the server is at the GE so I usually get areas to myself.

 

As far as not using the slayer dungeon, i definitely get that. I'm not an efficient player anymore. It's just not fun if I can't sit back and relax while I casually train after all these years. But you're right that sharing areas isn't a problem like it used to be years ago.

 

 

Anyway, It's good to hear that the beta is open to all members next weekend (allegedly...I haven't read any official news about this). I would like to test this out, as I have never been good at games that are very keyboard intensive. That has always been one of the great things about RS. There is not a ton of button mashing.

[Saradomin_Mage]

I agree, nothing feels worse than killing that one creature and then some dude decides to spoil the fun by getting the killing blow.

 

However, if Jagex can implement a tapping mechanic, where the first person or group to hit the target gets the "killing blow" xp and the loot, this shouldn't be a problem.

 

Then again, Jagex never said anything about a tapping mechanic.

 

Apparently they did add some form of tapping mechanic, I'm just not sure if it actually works.

We do have anti-killstealing mechanics in place; when you're the first player to attack a monster (which isn't a boss and isn't your cannon hitting) you should get the exp and drops, so someone attempting to kill steal's helping you rather than potentially stealing 50 or 100% of your combat/slayer exp and the drop as is the case in live multicombat now.

 

This is also why the NPCs essentially reset after approximately 10 seconds out of combat.

[qfc]300-301-319-63832329[/qfc]

[Fire_God]

I hope they know what they're getting into. And understand the feedback we have this time. A lot of their ideas have promise if they work. Multi-combat everywhere is excellent since it means unicorns/cannon and AOE abilities work everywhere. However, it has to be balanced against the fact that many monsters can do damage. Considering that prayer isn't 100% negation at the moment that makes it even worse. They have a lot to do with the interfaces, stat bonuses, and clarity of what weapons actually do.. before I think a lot of us will be happy.

 

I really hope they tone down the ability rate. Its hard to focus on it all...

 

 

All of the above are true (perhaps) when you look at it from your perspective.

 

Now look at it from mine:

 

I'm next to you.

 

I'm slaying.

 

Before I kill my first mob but after I've attacked it, you come out with an MC or and AOE and take the kill. I'll say it's inadvetent. It happens again, and again, and again and ... like I said. See it from my perspective. Even innocently you can have a negative affect on my game. If you're not innocent you can just ruin it. One player on every world doing that in just one spot will cause a lot of bad feeling and more and ... nothing will be done about it apart from the person who should be punished is probably (in effect) being rewarded for their antisocial behaviour by being the one that gets the kills, the drops, has 'fun' etc.

 

'nuff said.

 

Unless they changed something recently, the system that has been in place since 2005 is if multiple people are killing the same monster, the person who does the most damage gets the drop/slayer xp and the person who does the final blow gets slayer xp (ignore coin/loot share). They implemented this system shortly after slayer first came out because all the multi combat spots were full of people and a popular griefer strategy was to wait until a monster was low on hp and finish it for the xp, denying it to the person who spent the time/resources killing it.

[Hedgehog]

You get half the slayer xp for doing the most damage and half for doing the killing blow.

[Nash]

Meanwhile, at C9 Open Beta (that started the day after RS Combat Beta): http://youtu.be/dACSmMTi1k0

 

Kind of funny, rs is fun because of its simplicity and how "advanced" (graphic wise) it is for a browser game. That alone kept rs on a whole different level that discarded most comparisons. But now they want to enter the more dynamic, action based market of mmos... I hope they know what they are getting into...

 

 

C9 is still instanced though, at least RS is open world.

 

As far as instanced mmo's go, I thought DCUO and DragonNest had more fluid combat than C9.

 

 

For open world I have to say Darkfall Online wins. Openworld FFA, Full-loot PVP.

 

 

 

What I think Darkfall and Runescape have over the other mmorpg's is the depth of crafting. Although, in Darkfall you can build boats and sail around :) You can even shoot cannons and take over other peoples ships out at sea.

 

 

 

I agree with you though, the last tab-target game I played was SWTOR and it will also be the last. Ever since I got into the aim-based games I don't think I could ever go back.

[Howlin0001]

FAQ Emilee posted last night.

[QFC]299-300-419-63838512[/QFC]

Are updates to the beta going to be done in batches once every week, or are they going to be done in more regular intervals?

 

Once a week is the general aim, but it could be more or less frequent depending on how many fixes we have completed each day.

 

Is there an entire team dedicated to bug fixing, as well as one dedicated to balancing?

 

The combat developers are dedicated to fixing bugs and tweaking balancing. We also have the QA team and Design team going through all your feedback to highlight the areas of combat we should look at next.

 

I dont have a numpad, how do I sheath and unsheathe my weapons?

 

Right click on the minimise/maximise hotbar button and select the Sheathe/Unsheathe option.

 

It's annoying how I need to click on the chat box every time I want to say something. Can this be improved at all?

 

You can press enter to chat instead of clicking the box. Alternatively, if you minimise the action-bar, then you no longer need to press enter or click to type.

 

How does Hit bonus effect you?

 

In simple terms, the higher your hit bonus, the more likely you are to hit something. However, when fighting something (or someone), their armour value is compared to your hit bonus. The higher your hit bonus is to their armour, the more likely you are to hit them. The closer your hit bonus is to their armour value, the less likely you are to hit.

 

The armour value of a player is made up from the equipment they are wearing, NPCs have a natural armour value. The higher their combat level, the higher their armour.

 

Is damage the max damage you can do with a weapon? If not, what does it mean?

 

Damage is the maximum damage you can do with an auto attack. Weapons with a higher damage will also do more ability damage.

 

For melee weapons, how do the style (stab, slash, etc.) effect you? Are enemies weak to different types of melee attacks?

 

If you look on the target side panel, it shows you what a creature is weak to. A creature could be weak to crush, or water magic, or arrows etc. If you use the exact type the creature is weak to, you will have an increased chance to hit, in the region of an additional 15%.

 

Can you explain the target info? What does VS Offense mean? What does the melee:xx%, ranged:xx%, and magic:xx% mean?

 

The percentages shown here is the chance you have to defend against something attacking you using the offensive rating shown. This offensive rating is based on your current combat level so it should give you a rough idea of your defence chances in each combat style against monsters around your current level.

 

So, if I am combat level 50, we assume on average that you will have 25 defence and 25 in a combat skill. Therefore, the defence chances shown here will be against an opponent attacking with 25 in their combat skill.

 

What exactly does the "class" modifier do?

 

This shows what combat style the equipment is suited to. For weapons, this indicates which combat skill will be used when fighting. For armour, this indicates the effectiveness it has against different combat styles based on the combat triangle.

 

Melee armour will defend best against ranged attack, worst against magic attacks and average against melee attacks.

 

Ranged armour will defend best against magic attacks, worst against melee attacks and average against ranged attacks.

 

Magic will defend best against melee attacks, worst against ranged attacks and average against magic attacks.

 

Armour will also affect your accuracy when using different combat styles. For example, wearing melee armour will not affect your chance to hit with melee weapons but will lower your chance to hit with ranged weapons and even further lower your chance to hit with magic.

 

What do the asterisks next to a monsters name mean?

 

If an asterisk is on a monsters name, it means that monster is tagged by a player, and won't award you any loot or XP if you attack it. Only the player who tags a creature (by getting the first hit on it) will get the XP and loot for the kill. Bosses can't be tagged like this.

 

Do certain abilities miss more than others? If so, can you tell us which ones are more accurate?

 

All abilities have the same hit chance as the weapon youre using.

 

Why doesn't prayer affect abilities? E.g. Turmoil didn't affect the max hit of frenzy.

 

Frenzy does percentage damage, anything that does a percentage of an opponents lifepoints will not be affected by damage modifiers.

 

Is there a way to break stun?

 

The freedom defensive ability, which doesnt require a shield, clears both stuns and damage over time effects. Its tooltip will be updated to let you know it breaks stuns in the next update.

 

Will you be adding more abilities? Melee has twice as many as range/mage and hp only has two.

 

Adding more abilities over time is something we are keen to do, however, new abilities will need to serve a purpose. We don't want to just add boring abilities to bump up the numbers some skills have access to.

 

On the topic of melee having twice the amount as other skills, this is somewhat true, however they do have twice the amount of skills to train. What we tried to do with the Attack and Strength abilities, was to have Attack focus on Single weapon or dual-wielding and have Strength focus on Two-handed weapon abilities, in addition there is some overlap between the two skills, for example Kick and Back-hand are effectively the same ability.

 

This all being said, we do feel that we could do with adding some more Mage and Range abilities, so watch this space!

 

Will imbued rings be getting a buff? For at least 30 hours work they offer very little bonus over the normal version at the moment (not to mention some having no stats at all!).

 

You should see this implemented in the next update.

 

Are you going to give stats to items like berserker helms etc.?

 

Anything that hasnt been given stats will be in due time.

 

Why are the Elysian and Divine classed into tiers now when they are shields that all types of people could use within combat?

 

The elysian/divine and arcane all have the special ability of the divine in the main game. These abilities are currently not activating as they should, but this should be fixed in the next update.

 

They are classed because each class now has a shield that carries the divine ability. The spectral does not carry an ability but has the same defensive stats and is placed in the same tier as the bandos and armadyl shield.

 

Why were blood/death runes removed from higher leveled spells, is this so more players can afford to cast the spells, making Magic a more open option to people?

 

Magic was too expensive to cast. All offensive spells had their rune costs reduced to make magic less expensive to train. Additionally the basic Air spells now only cost Air runes to cast, so are free to use when wielding an Air Staff.

 

Will protection prayers go back to protecting 100% from those attacks in PvE/PvM?

 

No, the concept of having a prayer that makes you totally immune is very bad from a design perspective. It results in there being no challenge for the player and undermines the difficulty of any encounters.

 

By using your new defence abilities tactically, you can mitigate a great deal of the damage creatures can deal out to you.

 

A lot of hotkey mashing seems to be needed is it possible to be able to queue basic abilities or replace basic abilities with auto-attacks?

 

While technically possible, queuing up a series of actions is straying dangerously close to macro territory, so is not something we are keen to do.

 

Will you slow down the recovery of all action bar abilities since now it is simply who can mash the buttons in the correct order the fastest. This removes any skill.

 

We are finding there is a great deal of tactical choice involved in deciding which ability is best to use a which point. Button mashing doesn't seem to win many duels when the opponent knows what they are doing. Once people become more familiar with how the different abilities interact, the effectiveness of mashing will tail off, we feel.

 

Why is everything multi-combat and how do you plan to balance this in PvP?

 

Single-way combat is a concept we wanted to move away from. Being magically unable to attack something simply "because" wasnt a design principal we wanted to continue to adopt. In addition, it undermines the use of several aspects of the game, for example Summoning. Players seeking a one-on-one PvP fights can use the Duel Arena or visit the new Crucible (Bounty Hunter) mini-game. However, as with all things in the beta, we will continue to monitor this situation.

 

Will you nerf adrenalin pots, since you can simply use one then one hit a person. The "new rushing".

 

Yes, we are looking at them as we speak.

 

Will anguish and torment ever be given unique activation animations?

 

It is certainly something we will be looking into and we will definitely be doing another pass over these. We are still working on some elements of the combat system and due to the nature of a beta, nothing is set in stone at this stage.

 

As F2P players arent allowed in the beta, how are you going to test how these combat changes affect f2p combat?

 

This is an active topic of discussion for the development team. We have the ability to boot our internal test servers into F2P and so we are actively testing and playing the free game internally.

 

If you guys make an official poll about the evolution of combat? If a high number of players do not want the combat rework, will it be cancelled?

 

We feel the combat rework is the right thing for the game, however the reason we are running the beta is so that we can get the players feedback and make changes. In the first few days of the beta we have already changed several things, such as removing the cooldown on switching gear in combat. We will continue to work with the players to improve the update until we can't make it any better before it is released into the live game. If this means the beta period needs to be extended, then we will extend the beta as long as is needed.

[Equenox]

A shame that only one of my questions got answered, but it's great to see Jagex offering these opportunities. :)

[Ambler]

"Removed cooldown on switching gear in combat"

Q, be happy! :thumbsup: