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The Evolution of Combat: BETA discussion


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#1321
Hedgehog
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You get half the slayer xp for doing the most damage and half for doing the killing blow.

#1322
Nash
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Meanwhile, at C9 Open Beta (that started the day after RS Combat Beta):

Kind of funny, rs is fun because of its simplicity and how "advanced" (graphic wise) it is for a browser game. That alone kept rs on a whole different level that discarded most comparisons. But now they want to enter the more dynamic, action based market of mmos... I hope they know what they are getting into...



C9 is still instanced though, at least RS is open world.

As far as instanced mmo's go, I thought DCUO and DragonNest had more fluid combat than C9.


For open world I have to say Darkfall Online wins. Openworld FFA, Full-loot PVP.



What I think Darkfall and Runescape have over the other mmorpg's is the depth of crafting. Although, in Darkfall you can build boats and sail around :) You can even shoot cannons and take over other peoples ships out at sea.



I agree with you though, the last tab-target game I played was SWTOR and it will also be the last. Ever since I got into the aim-based games I don't think I could ever go back.

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#1323
Howlin0001
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FAQ Emilee posted last night.
QFC: 299-300-419-63838512

Are updates to the beta going to be done in batches once every week, or are they going to be done in more regular intervals?

Once a week is the general aim, but it could be more or less frequent depending on how many fixes we have completed each day.

Is there an entire team dedicated to bug fixing, as well as one dedicated to balancing?

The combat developers are dedicated to fixing bugs and tweaking balancing. We also have the QA team and Design team going through all your feedback to highlight the areas of combat we should look at next.

I don’t have a numpad, how do I sheath and unsheathe my weapons?

Right click on the minimise/maximise hotbar button and select the Sheathe/Unsheathe option.

It's annoying how I need to click on the chat box every time I want to say something. Can this be improved at all?

You can press enter to chat instead of clicking the box. Alternatively, if you minimise the action-bar, then you no longer need to press enter or click to type.

How does Hit bonus effect you?

In simple terms, the higher your hit bonus, the more likely you are to hit something. However, when fighting something (or someone), their armour value is compared to your hit bonus. The higher your hit bonus is to their armour, the more likely you are to hit them. The closer your hit bonus is to their armour value, the less likely you are to hit.

The armour value of a player is made up from the equipment they are wearing, NPCs have a natural armour value. The higher their combat level, the higher their armour.

Is damage the max damage you can do with a weapon? If not, what does it mean?

Damage is the maximum damage you can do with an auto attack. Weapons with a higher damage will also do more ability damage.

For melee weapons, how do the style (stab, slash, etc.) effect you? Are enemies weak to different types of melee attacks?

If you look on the target side panel, it shows you what a creature is weak to. A creature could be weak to crush, or water magic, or arrows etc. If you use the exact type the creature is weak to, you will have an increased chance to hit, in the region of an additional 15%.

Can you explain the target info? What does “VS Offense” mean? What does the melee:xx%, ranged:xx%, and magic:xx% mean?

The percentages shown here is the chance you have to defend against something attacking you using the offensive rating shown. This offensive rating is based on your current combat level so it should give you a rough idea of your defence chances in each combat style against monsters around your current level.

So, if I am combat level 50, we assume on average that you will have 25 defence and 25 in a combat skill. Therefore, the defence chances shown here will be against an opponent attacking with 25 in their combat skill.

What exactly does the "class" modifier do?

This shows what combat style the equipment is suited to. For weapons, this indicates which combat skill will be used when fighting. For armour, this indicates the effectiveness it has against different combat styles based on the combat triangle.

Melee armour will defend best against ranged attack, worst against magic attacks and average against melee attacks.

Ranged armour will defend best against magic attacks, worst against melee attacks and average against ranged attacks.

Magic will defend best against melee attacks, worst against ranged attacks and average against magic attacks.

Armour will also affect your accuracy when using different combat styles. For example, wearing melee armour will not affect your chance to hit with melee weapons but will lower your chance to hit with ranged weapons and even further lower your chance to hit with magic.

What do the asterisks next to a monsters name mean?

If an asterisk is on a monsters name, it means that monster is tagged by a player, and won't award you any loot or XP if you attack it. Only the player who tags a creature (by getting the first hit on it) will get the XP and loot for the kill. Bosses can't be tagged like this.

Do certain abilities miss more than others? If so, can you tell us which ones are more accurate?

All abilities have the same hit chance as the weapon you’re using.

Why doesn't prayer affect abilities? E.g. Turmoil didn't affect the max hit of frenzy.

Frenzy does percentage damage, anything that does a percentage of an opponents lifepoints will not be affected by damage modifiers.

Is there a way to break stun?

The freedom defensive ability, which doesn’t require a shield, clears both stuns and damage over time effects. Its tooltip will be updated to let you know it breaks stuns in the next update.

Will you be adding more abilities? Melee has twice as many as range/mage and hp only has two.

Adding more abilities over time is something we are keen to do, however, new abilities will need to serve a purpose. We don't want to just add boring abilities to bump up the numbers some skills have access to.

On the topic of melee having twice the amount as other skills, this is somewhat true, however they do have twice the amount of skills to train. What we tried to do with the Attack and Strength abilities, was to have Attack focus on Single weapon or dual-wielding and have Strength focus on Two-handed weapon abilities, in addition there is some overlap between the two skills, for example Kick and Back-hand are effectively the same ability.

This all being said, we do feel that we could do with adding some more Mage and Range abilities, so watch this space!

Will imbued rings be getting a buff? For at least 30 hours work they offer very little bonus over the normal version at the moment (not to mention some having no stats at all!).

You should see this implemented in the next update.

Are you going to give stats to items like berserker helms etc.?

Anything that hasn’t been given stats will be in due time.

Why are the Elysian and Divine classed into tiers now when they are shields that all types of people could use within combat?

The elysian/divine and arcane all have the special ability of the divine in the main game. These abilities are currently not activating as they should, but this should be fixed in the next update.

They are classed because each class now has a shield that carries the divine ability. The spectral does not carry an ability but has the same defensive stats and is placed in the same tier as the bandos and armadyl shield.

Why were blood/death runes removed from higher leveled spells, is this so more players can afford to cast the spells, making Magic a more open option to people?

Magic was too expensive to cast. All offensive spells had their rune costs reduced to make magic less expensive to train. Additionally the basic Air spells now only cost Air runes to cast, so are free to use when wielding an Air Staff.

Will protection prayers go back to protecting 100% from those attacks in PvE/PvM?

No, the concept of having a prayer that makes you totally immune is very bad from a design perspective. It results in there being no challenge for the player and undermines the difficulty of any encounters.

By using your new defence abilities tactically, you can mitigate a great deal of the damage creatures can deal out to you.

A lot of hotkey mashing seems to be needed – is it possible to be able to queue basic abilities or replace basic abilities with auto-attacks?

While technically possible, queuing up a series of actions is straying dangerously close to macro territory, so is not something we are keen to do.

Will you slow down the recovery of all action bar abilities since now it is simply who can mash the buttons in the correct order the fastest. This removes any skill.

We are finding there is a great deal of tactical choice involved in deciding which ability is best to use a which point. Button mashing doesn't seem to win many duels when the opponent knows what they are doing. Once people become more familiar with how the different abilities interact, the effectiveness of mashing will tail off, we feel.

Why is everything multi-combat and how do you plan to balance this in PvP?

Single-way combat is a concept we wanted to move away from. Being magically unable to attack something simply "because" wasn’t a design principal we wanted to continue to adopt. In addition, it undermines the use of several aspects of the game, for example Summoning. Players seeking a one-on-one PvP fights can use the Duel Arena or visit the new Crucible (Bounty Hunter) mini-game. However, as with all things in the beta, we will continue to monitor this situation.

Will you nerf adrenalin pots, since you can simply use one then one hit a person. The "new rushing".

Yes, we are looking at them as we speak.

Will anguish and torment ever be given unique activation animations?

It is certainly something we will be looking into and we will definitely be doing another pass over these. We are still working on some elements of the combat system and due to the nature of a beta, nothing is set in stone at this stage.

As F2P players aren’t allowed in the beta, how are you going to test how these combat changes affect f2p combat?

This is an active topic of discussion for the development team. We have the ability to boot our internal test servers into F2P and so we are actively testing and playing the free game internally.

If you guys make an official poll about the evolution of combat? If a high number of players do not want the combat rework, will it be cancelled?

We feel the combat rework is the right thing for the game, however the reason we are running the beta is so that we can get the players feedback and make changes. In the first few days of the beta we have already changed several things, such as removing the cooldown on switching gear in combat. We will continue to work with the players to improve the update until we can't make it any better before it is released into the live game. If this means the beta period needs to be extended, then we will extend the beta as long as is needed.



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#1324
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A shame that only one of my questions got answered, but it's great to see Jagex offering these opportunities. :)

#1325
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"Removed cooldown on switching gear in combat"
Q, be happy! :thumbsup:

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#1326
Octarine
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Will imbued rings be getting a buff? For at least 30 hours work they offer very little bonus over the normal version at the moment (not to mention some having no stats at all!).

You should see this implemented in the next update.

Are you going to give stats to items like berserker helms etc.?

Anything that hasn’t been given stats will be in due time.


YAY! So hopefully onyx (i) wont be useless after all :P


"Removed cooldown on switching gear in combat"
Q, be happy! :thumbsup:


Also good :D Needed to happen for PvM, not sure about PvP but its still great news!

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#1327
Quyneax
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I agree with Jagex on a couple of points here :blink:. Protect prayers are bad design, removal of armour switching penalties (:thumbsup:), removal of single combat, the comment on magic being too expensive. Pretty good Q&A actually :P.

Reposting this:
It'd be interesting if prayer bonus was like LP boost rather than a drain rate reduction as it is now. With food and pray pots restoring a percentage of your lp/pp (hopefully) that'd work the same as a drain rate reduction, but also create some interplay with spirit shield as you need a base amount of prayer bonus to utilize the effect. Protect prayers could be changed to be more like spirit shields too, for example a 75% damage reduction with a 25% prayer drain rate.
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#1328
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So how is the XP determined in this new system? Haven't seen anything about that. Also, did I read that right about NPCs being refreshed when they're out of combat for 10 seconds meaning no more 50% monster hoarders?

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#1329
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With the protection prayer update, it seems the concept of AFK-combat is completely removed.
All fine and dandy, but they better update Slayer for it. The only way I manage to kill 200+ of the same boring monster is the idea that I don't have to pay much attention as I turn on my auto-retaliate, protection prayer and cannon. I'm quite sure I'm not going to have the patience to pay attention for the same monotuous combat if Jagex forces us to ability spam all the time.

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#1330
Den
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Meanwhile, at C9 Open Beta (that started the day after RS Combat Beta):

Kind of funny, rs is fun because of its simplicity and how "advanced" (graphic wise) it is for a browser game. That alone kept rs on a whole different level that discarded most comparisons. But now they want to enter the more dynamic, action based market of mmos... I hope they know what they are getting into...


I can make Runescape look epic compared to that game. Video editing is all about what the maker wants to point people's focus on in the video. No offense, but that video is as sad as the ones that were made back in the day when Runescape gameplay was compared to WoW's gameplay.


I like how they are addressing many issues I've been wondering about. Looking forward to seeing the full patch notes for the next update.

#1331
gspbeetle
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I still prefer the "more damage wins" model than the "first to tag monster". Cannon aoe tagging isnt fun.

#1332
Quyneax
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I still prefer the "more damage wins" model than the "first to tag monster". Cannon aoe tagging isnt fun.

Except that cannon doesn't tag. I prefer the most damage wins model too, because it rewards having a higher damage output. Too few people use prayers for slaying.
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#1333
xSxqPowerx
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I like a lot of the changes, but I still don't feel they properly addressed the issue of button mashing. Firsty, they referred only to pvp.
Secondly, even if you are hitting the buttons in a specific order, it is still button mashing if you need to hit a button every 1.2 seconds to have full effectiveness in combat.

#1334
J35u5_M4
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Did they fix prayer bonus yet? Because when I tried the beta nothing gave prayer bonus, sw cape, max cape, prossy armor... Nothing did lol

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#1335
Saradomin_Mage
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They'll probably fix it next update, prayer bonus is at least on the equipment menu again.

Players vs Devs event pics, Jmods sporty some fancy armour (betting its multiclass >: ( )

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#1336
Urza285
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I heard that was some form of jmod outfit for the jmods...



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#1337
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Yes it's evidently a Jmod outfit because of the crown :P
I'm just thinking it was multiclass armour because they managed to melee, range and mage pretty effectively in that gear.

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#1338
Vezon Dash
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Well... I guess I should try to grind out two more fire capes and two kiln capes before they update the combat system. I don't like the idea of not having 100% protection prayers.

#1339
Kimberly
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Is there an "expiration" on any tagged monster? If there's not, I see that as a problem. I could go and tag the nearest 5 monsters around me to screw over my competition, and merrily slay/kill away and reap all the rewards as they struggle to keep up in vain.

I feel like when I post feedback on the RSOF, it's lost in a sea of hamfisted tantrums and to a lesser extent people also trying to give rational feedback.

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#1340
Arcane_Rift
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Is there an "expiration" on any tagged monster? If there's not, I see that as a problem. I could go and tag the nearest 5 monsters around me to screw over my competition, and merrily slay/kill away and reap all the rewards as they struggle to keep up in vain.

I feel like when I post feedback on the RSOF, it's lost in a sea of hamfisted tantrums and to a lesser extent people also trying to give rational feedback.


First thing I thought of when I read that. I wish they would provide the reasoning behind this change because I thought the per hit xp worked really well.

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:: 99 Smithing - 2007-03-04 :: 99 Cooking - 2007-03-09 :: 99 Herblore - 2007-05-19 :: 99 Crafting - 2007-06-18 :: 99 Fletching - 2007-08-27 ::
::99 Attack - 2009-05-26 :: 99 Strength - 2009-05-28 :: 99 Constitution - 2009-07-07 :: 99 Dungeoneering - 2010-08-31 ::99 Defence - 2010-09-01::
:: 99 Magic - 2010-09.18 :: 99 Farming - 2011-11-27 :: 99 Prayer - 2011-11-27 :: 99 Ranging - 2012-01-04 :: 99 Slayer - 2012-01-15 ::
:: 99 Runecrafting - 2012-05-14 :: 99 Summoning - 2012-12-07 :: 99 Firemaking - 2012-12-09 :: 99 Woodcutting - 2013-01-17 :: 99 Mining - 2013-01-31 ::





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