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The Evolution of Combat: BETA discussion

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I still kind of hope metamorphing using ancients has its own skins, but I don;t hold much hope. I mean the air and earth ones look fitting for gale and rock but the fire and water ones don't seem right for bloodfire and ice.


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I'd be interested to use melee + mage orb, imagine using a rapier + ancient magicks/SOA at the same time, would be totally epic, IMO melee+mage will own melee+ranged

It will definitely give runescape a skyrim-esque type feel, dare I say


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Well yea but colour scheming should also be enough to signal the elements without having to completely bugger up the theme. white/grey for air and smoke, blue for ice and water, red for fire and blood, brown/black for earth and shadow.

Changed names are also just going to cause unneccessary disconnects and headscratching if they keep the effects on the spells. Poisoning from a smoke spell and lower accuracy from being blinded by shadow spells make enough sense not to cause a disconnect. If the effects arent removed or retconned to something else it'll be 'so getting hit by a gale poisons me but getting hit by wind doesnt? What the hell?' or 'getting hit by a lump of rock lowers my attack level if the spell is called rock but not if its called earth? okay......'.

 

If theyre going to destroy the whole theme of the ancients spellbook and all the dungeons,lore etc attached to turn it into 'standard spells but AOE' they might as well just go the whole 9 yards and just turn them into wind/water/earth/fire barrage instead of this unneccessary halfway mess that creates more problems than it solves.

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I don't think it'll be a huge disconnect.

 

All Gale needs to be is a green-ish or purple-ish toxic wind and it makes perfect sense.

Also presumably Rock will look much more like solid grey, well, rocks than the brown lumps of earth and I think it does kinda of make sense your accuracy would be lowered if a large lump of rock smacks you in the face.

 

Also I don't see it breaking the lore too much. Bloodfire and Ice still sit perfectly in the lore since ice doesn't change is and bloodfire is like a sinister vampyric twist on fire mage. The Smoke Dungeon can remain cause Fareed is a fire spirit of sorts so would chug out smoke, as do the dust devils and the Gale magic would be used to alter air currents to stop the smoke dispersing. Shadow dungeon is probably the largest departure, but Damis can still retain some shadow qualities after all his lair is carved into the rock and is shadow and dark thanks to the lack of lights etc.


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I hope we can dual weild shields at some point.


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Woo we can finally make our rs character look like a Demon Hunter from D3! And we will get orbs just like in D3! Maybe they will add Diablo as a boss next?? /troll

 

Seriously looking forward to this update. I just hope the wands release have a glowing/particle effect and orbs come in various colors bc all I care about is cosmetic as I don't skill/pvp/pvm and i just stand around gambling.

 

Peace,

Vann

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"Smoke = Air" Makes sense. Have you ever seen smoke in an airless environment? Well I know I never have.

"Shadow = Earth" Also obvious. Rocks have shadows, and they're opaque; they cause shadows too.

"Blood = Fire" Well duh. Have you ever felt blood? It's warm. You know what else is warm?

"Ice = Water" I think this is kinda stupid. Jagex finally had a chance to undo this idiotic mistake. Water isn't always cold, Jagex. You aren't fooling anyone.


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"Smoke = Air" Makes sense. Have you ever seen smoke in an airless environment? Well I know I never have.

"Shadow = Earth" Also obvious. Rocks have shadows, and they're opaque; they cause shadows too.

"Blood = Fire" Well duh. Have you ever felt blood? It's warm. You know what else is warm?

"Ice = Water" I think this is kinda stupid. Jagex finally had a chance to undo this idiotic mistake. Water isn't always cold, Jagex. You aren't fooling anyone.

Fair point.

Going by the classical elements:

Air = warm & wet

Water = cold & wet

Earth = cold & dry

Fire = warm & dry

 

Logically, blood should equal air.

Ice is dry (if it's not melting) so it's cold&dry/earth.

Smoke is warm & dry so fire.

That leaves cold&wet for shadow???

 

Any subdivision doesn't make sense :P.


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They should just make them 4 separate elements possibly with separate weaknesses. Or Give every monster that is weak to an element a weakness to an ancient magic element, possibly strictly on a per monster basis. This renaming is grr.


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They should just make them 4 separate elements possibly with separate weaknesses. Or Give every monster that is weak to an element a weakness to an ancient magic element, possibly strictly on a per monster basis. This renaming is grr.

 

If the monster weaknesses were done like that so say monsters weak to fire are weak to blood how is that any different to what they are doing? Aside from the fact they are making slight tweaks to a couple of names to make them more obviously tie in.

 

Aside from that I was watching back the videos and thinking how they definitely seem to be pushing into a sort of 3 'form' battle system.

 

Firstly they mention msot def and lp boost being from shield, kinda implies shields is the new main armour piece opposed to body so then you get you're kind of default can weather it all form of shield and 1h wep.

Then 2h weps do 150% damage so they seem like a form for fighting tank-type monsters which high def and weaker attacks where you want that power to pound through the def.

Then dual wielding is essentially 2x attack speed so it seems to be a form for taking on low def monsters that you can take down fast without being hindered much by lose of def.


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Renaming might not make sense, but if element types suddenly matter, I don't blame them for it.

 

Really, earth=shadow is the only one I have a problem with.

 

Ice = water. Even more obvious. Ice is frozen water.

Smoke is obviously air. In fact, smoke coming from burning stuff (branches) was used to explain how air was present in stuff. Or at least trees.

Blood = fire - well, it's not bad. Water kinda makes sense too but water is taken. Blood = fire = energy. Kinda works. Plus, bloodfire sounds cool.

Shadow = earth... not working for me. Sure they cause shadows. Almost everything causes shadows. Granted, earth is the best fit. It's the only element left, plus water is opaque, air is generally see through, and fire CREATES light.

 

I'm more curious about how earth lowers attacks. Stunning is an obvious example, but then regular earth attacks should stun, and fire attack should burn for that matter.

 

I dunno, I think I'm just of the opinion that this is one of those cases where game mechanics > lore.

 

It's more complicated needing to remember what ancient attack type a monster is weak to, on top of what regular element, rather then just aligning each ancient spell to an element. Also, you know how the magic ult turns you into an elemental of some sort? I'm guessing that the elemental form boosts the power of that element ONLY. Which means the graphic team would need to make 4 extra elementals JUST for ancients.

 

Tbh, the only thing that bugs me is that they feel the need to rename smoke. Imo, smoke and ice are very obvious what element they are.

 

As for dual wielding... As cool as it is, I'm really hoping that dual wielding doesn't give you enough accuracy or something for high level monsters. The one thing that worries me about dual wielding is it seems to be in the same spot as 2h (high DPS, less def), and traditionally fast, weaker, less accurate weapons > slow, strong, accurate weapons. One thing I'm curious about - hearing Jagex talk about how dual wielding gives you less def.... what they said COULD be interpreted as dual wielding giving you an armour penalty on TOP of the lack of def from having a shield. As in, dual wielding has less def then 2h.

 

Lastly, I wonder how being able to train how you want with any weapon will affect Barbarian Assault and the Fighter's Guild (in that one minigame thing where you have to match an attack and training style when hitting a dummy.)


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Something I'm intrigued to see is what happens to tome of forst (and the prayerbooks for that matter) since they said books will be off-hand mage items for dual wield.

 

The prayerbooks could kinda of become magebooks for other elements I mean sara, zam, guth lend themselves colour wise to air fire and earth. Bandos brown could go to mud, Armadyl grey could go to steam and then Zaros purple would be left with lava.


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Woo we can finally make our rs character look like a Demon Hunter from D3! And we will get orbs just like in D3! Maybe they will add Diablo as a boss next?? /troll

 

Seriously looking forward to this update. I just hope the wands release have a glowing/particle effect and orbs come in various colors bc all I care about is cosmetic as I don't skill/pvp/pvm and i just stand around gambling.

 

Peace,

Vann

The sad thing is, despite the technological superiority present in D3, RS is still a vastly superior game.

 

Think about that one for a minute :3

 

Pretty much, they took everything that made D2:LOD awesome and replaced it with dumbed-down features from WoW.


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What will happen to items like the arcane spirit shield? Will it lose all its offensive bonuses be identical to a spectral?


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Woo we can finally make our rs character look like a Demon Hunter from D3! And we will get orbs just like in D3! Maybe they will add Diablo as a boss next?? /troll

 

Seriously looking forward to this update. I just hope the wands release have a glowing/particle effect and orbs come in various colors bc all I care about is cosmetic as I don't skill/pvp/pvm and i just stand around gambling.

 

Peace,

Vann

The sad thing is, despite the technological superiority present in D3, RS is still a vastly superior game.

 

Think about that one for a minute :3

 

Pretty much, they took everything that made D2:LOD awesome and replaced it with dumbed-down features from WoW.

 

Unsurprising. Max Schafer mentioned in an interview that Diablo III was originally intended to be an MMO.


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I would rather have 4 new elementals, and have to remember new weaknesses, than to have crappy renames that don't fit in with current game lore.


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I can see Paul Gower having chills over his spine when he hears about the changing Ancient Magicks. :s

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Really, earth=shadow is the only one I have a problem with.

Shadow fits more with fire, especially if you're an ASOIAF fans. :razz:

Ice being water is the most obvious one. It's just not possible for them to screw that up. The same could be said for smoke and air.

Earth being blood can make sense. Earth can be tied to life, life can tie into blood.

 

Someone else posted this pattern earlier. It's better than Jagex's. :razz:

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Couldn't they have just said that all monsters ordinarily weak to water are also weak to ice; same goes for blood and fire, etc.


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We shouldn't let this overrock a good update. Sure, we lose a bit of lore, but dual wielding is pretty cool. Let's not forget that.

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I'm pretty sure that noone will care after release. The only reason people care so much now is because speculation and criticism are all that can be done at the moment.


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Couldn't they have just said that all monsters ordinarily weak to water are also weak to ice; same goes for blood and fire, etc.

 

I'd rather it be that some monsters are weak to fire and shadow, some are weak to ice and earth, some are weak to water and ice, and so on. (in otherwords make the elements 100% full status elements instead of merge into the 4th)


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Woo we can finally make our rs character look like a Demon Hunter from D3! And we will get orbs just like in D3! Maybe they will add Diablo as a boss next?? /troll

 

Seriously looking forward to this update. I just hope the wands release have a glowing/particle effect and orbs come in various colors bc all I care about is cosmetic as I don't skill/pvp/pvm and i just stand around gambling.

 

Peace,

Vann

The sad thing is, despite the technological superiority present in D3, RS is still a vastly superior game.

 

Think about that one for a minute :3

 

Pretty much, they took everything that made D2:LOD awesome and replaced it with dumbed-down features from WoW.

I love how you constantly bash things without ever giving a reason why I should believe you.

 

D3 is a ARPG. RS is a MMORPG. You can't compare the two and say one is better. Only that you enjoy one more than the other.

 

For the record, there are something like 3-4x the number of copies of d3 sold than there are paying members in RS.


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