Runescape. My Views

[Ren]

Needless to say, I made a new sig today :).

 

RS combat is fine as it is, it needs 'balancing' still, but it's better than the heap Jagex is trying to do. I cannot tell if they're trying to make it more complicated and player-skill-based (because with most games, that is based on mindfocus and apm), or just trying to reach the very bottom of combat and make it so that every "OMFG AWESOME" addition to it will not disrupt the lower tiers.

 

I'm leaning towards the first bit because anyone with 1/3 of their brain gone still knows that all you have to do is change how damage is calculated, accuracy boosts, item amounts based on tiers and style, fix weaknesses correctly and make weaknesses/strengths less equal (see dmg calculation when adding turmoil, strength, and potion boosts).

 

 

---Damage Calculation---

What they're doing wrong:

-1- DAMAGE ---They let prayers and potions and skill levels affect the weapon's base too hugely. It's great for lower tier items, in fact it works near perfectly. NEAR perfectly. Higher tier is still unbalanced because those higher tiers have the same boost calculation as lower tiers.

 

-2- Accuracy calculation/boosts ---Again, prayers and potions affect the weapon's base too strongly, and the way hit/miss/crit works is terrible.

 

-3- Weakness/Strengths of styles ---All based on a bad damage/accuracy calculation, speed differences, and hardly combat type

======================

How to possibly fix this:

--Create a system of calculation where attack speed is not the deciding factor in a weapon (see CLS vs CR (Cr won, speed), CLS vs CM on wyverns (CLS won, speed).

 

==Step one complete - they made style weakness more apparent! Stab ruins pernix, crush destroys torva, and slash decimates virtus. Range wins versus mage when used correctly, and so on.

 

 

--Create a base for damage and accuracy altogether. Make it so skill level does not affect, or HARDLY affects damage or accuracy bases. This way, you can create a dps system that is less complicated in terms of deciding factors, and more dependant on what you use (still represents skill level better). You make a weapon that's strong, someone with the correct stats will be able to make it useful.

 

==Abilities complicated dps calculations, LP increase complicated dps calculations, defense bonus complicated dps calculations. The fact that prayers, potions, and base levels still affects everything does not help. But hey, they made all same-tier items equal in terms of weapons, but only in style weakness.

 

--Mage/Melee/Range boosts for weaknesses need to be changed to something better. Same for strengths.

 

==Weaknesses : NOT DIFFICULT IF YOU CHANGE GEAR, DECIDING SKILLS FOR DEF VS STYLE, NPC's WEAKNESS. As for strengths, well, they showed that mage/range/melee are basically the only 'strengths' you get in the beta. You have damage boosts versus that type. Nothing else defensively. Works OK, but I still think they need to make a better damage system. Beta one is far too unclear for me, and it'd be nice to take away abilities and just leave it in plain view (read my next bit).

============================

What Jagex -really- needs to do is set up a good, clean, easy-to-read dps system. Such as.. (btw I'll roll off the beta style item stats to make it more fun/appealing to Jagex's point of view)

 

Rules of calculation and armor stat decisions:

 

Lifepoints in this example will be based completely on total combat skill levels.

Att/Def/Str bonuses will be shown as boosts in #, not %. Style role calculation may be shown in % to give easier representation.

% boosts will come from prayers, potions, and base levels.

ALL WEAPONS HAVE A BASE DEFENSE BONUS VERSUS SAME TIER-SAME STYLE WEAPONS.

IT IS BASICALLY NOTHING COMPARED TO BASE DEFENSE FROM ARMOR.

 

ALL WEAPONS HAVE A BASE ACCURACY AGAINST THE SAME STYLE DEF AS THE WEAPON/ATTACK.

 

ALL ARMOR WILL HAVE STYLE STRONGPOINTS TO HYBRID DIF PIECES FOR MAXIMUM DEF IN THAT STYLE. CAUSES LACK OF OTHER-STYLE DEF

ALL ARMOR WILL HAVE A STRONG AND WEAK POINT BASED ON ARMOR BONUS.

 

ALL ITEMS FOR A SPECIFIC CLASS COMBAT (MELEE/RANGE/MAGE) HAVE A STRONG/MED/WEAK POINT.

THE HIGHER TIER TO CLIMB TO VS IT, THE WEAKER IT GETS.

99 TIER ITEMS WILL STILL DESTROY TORVA WITH STAB DESPITE TORVA BEING STRONG TO STAB.

 

--Req levels for respective item (att=weap, def=arm) = Same tier items.--

--####EXAMPLE TIME####--

 

Chaotic Longsword and full torva.

 

CLS has 300 slash. (torva is moderate to slash, strong to stab, weak to crush)

Versus Virtus top? - Cls has 360 slash. (virtus is weak to slash, moderate to stab, strong to crush)

Versus Pernix body? - Cls has 240 slash (pernix is strong to slash, weak to stab, moderate to crush)

+20%/-20% based on strength/weakness, +0% if same-style strength/strongpoint. Strength = weapon, strongpoint = armor.

 

Cls stats:

Slash type weapon - 300 slash vs same tier (Could be visual as Slash Weapon Bonus : 300) -Weapons only have 1 style from here on out -based on beta-.

Armor boost - 80 (tier8) def vs same tier/style (If it were a crush weapon, the crush weapon would reduce it's defense by 40% (equal to -33 def boost - all decimals round down even at .999), will put emphasis on this later)

Lifepoints boost/% life boost - NONEXISTANT. Read first three lines.

Strength bonus - +130 (tier + 50 for ALL ITEMS)

--Will explain dps/damage calculations/accuracy calculations later on in the post.--

 

Torva stats:

Helm - Armor boost = 180 Crush (Helm tier+100), Strong to crush, so base = strongest, +100 for strongest. Calculate moderate (stab) as tier def+60. Calculate weakest (slash) as tier def +20

Plate - Armor boost = 300 Slash (Plate tier+220), Plate weak to crush, moderate to stab. Read the note below**

Legs - Armor boost = 250 Stab (Leg tier+170), Legs moderate to crush, weak to slash.

--Since god armor, I'd add a strength boost but I don't want to mess with that for illustration purposes. It'd basically be like remaking items entirely, and it's not needed--

NO LP BOOST. NO PRAYER BOOST.

 

**Weakness/moderate armor bonuses can be calculated at 20%/60% of the +### for the strongpoint base. Tier def is SEPARATE. Can't be bothered to math out a bunch more armor bonuses.

***Items without a tier equal (such of neitiznot) could be ruled into a similar tier as an item with slightly lower stats ingame currently, thus making it an "Inbetweener", having specialty stats such as extra strength, but being inbetween two tiers of armor already. It would be a crap item compared to higher tiers even with the extra bonuses.

****I will say that my representations for stats are POOR because the math is not flat and simple for every tier. It is, however, simpler to me to see it like this than the way Jagex currently shows it, and the way it's shown in beta. If they did the same rationales for calculating 50% accuracies, they would be able to fit each item's bonuses appropriately and make their own equations for Runescape to calc accuracy rolls. It'd also be easier to see in-game what would be best vs what.

 

==========Let's sum this up!==========

 

Scenario: Chaotic longsword versus Torva armor (nothing else at all on both sides). (w) = weakness, (s) = strongpoint, (m) = moderate

Torva has a total Slash armor bonus of 100(w)+220(s)+100(m)=420. Chaotic longsword has a slash bonus of 300. 130 Strength bonus.

 

Let's just assume that accuracy rolls were easily represented as..

 

50% chance of hit = Def bonus of armor with SAME TIER AS WEAPON and ALL (M) ARMOR BONUS AGAINST THAT WEAPON'S STYLE. The deciding factors for greater/less than 50% chance to hit would be prayers used, etceria equips (cape/amu/ring def/off boosts) and potions.

If you used Tier-80 weapons/armor and armor with (m) bonuses in calculation, 50% accuracy roll calculation would look like this:

Plate : 136 Slash, Legs : 105, Helm : 62 ==Add in Tier bonuses (total 240)=== Total Armor of 543, 300 Slash on Chaotic longsword.

 

Def bonus divided by attack bonus divided by 3.62. Answer *10 = chance to hit.

 

Now we shall calc full torva stats. 420+240 / 300 / 3.62 = 60.7% chance to hit. Not that bad eh?

 

You may think that that's far too high of a % chance to hit for same-tier items. You are forgetting a few things.

1) Only the plate has strongpoint bonus for slash. The helm is moderate, legs are weak. Full sets of strongpoint sametier are extremely vital to your enemy's accuracy roll.

2) You are forgetting Damage!!! I haven't even started on damage rolls.

3) This is ALL off the top of my head, a rough idea, and nowhere near perfect. It's a start, however.

 

--###===##DAMAGE ROLLS##===###---

We now have a base accuracy formula for hit % chance. Now we must figure out a balanced Hitpoints amount based on TOTAL COMBAT SKILL LEVELS. CONSTITUTION ISNT A SKILL.

At 80/80/80 Stats, you would have access to torva and all tier 80 (chaotic) weapons. Torva has no strength so it's ignored in this.

 

As said, CLS has a 130 strength bonus. There are no other items on your character. Strength is VERY IMPORTANT to damage calculation, to make it more fair for those who choose to have a higher total combat. NO we are not calculating combat as highest lvl +def level. That is STUPID.

 

Assume that CLS has a base max of 460 damage currently. 990 Lp is just too little. We shall up the antie!

First we must determine max LP based on base max hit of our current highest tier (t80)'s max hit. Strength bonus is equal among all same-tier items just like +tier boost armor.

6 (we'll just say 6 hits for KO on sametier highest tier (t80) on max lp without healing once). 460*6 = 2760 Lifepoints! How to divide that equally between att/str/def/range/mage? Simple. 2760/5 = 552 LP Per 99.

We'll say 2900 LP is your max lp, and min is 160, because 5*98 = 490 gives level 1 skills and some base life points room to have health on a level 3 character. This means 1 combat skill level = 4LP.

 

If Strength gives damage a boost, how much is fair to make it so weapons won't be overkill? How do you calculate range/mage level into it so they are equal with strength?

*cough* How are they NOT currently?!?! I mean, cmon! It's right there. If attack level doesn't affect accuracy rolls, then strength/range/mage are free to roam as % damage boosts!

The tricky part is making it so items -aren't- overkill. Making it so spells and bolts are balanced as well is tricky. Well.. What is an tier, Jafemex? That's what you did wrong. You did not release equal tiers at equal times for range/mage/melee. For this, you'd have to determine what tier the strongest item in RS is for mage and range, then equalize it to chaotic. Make the max damage equal. Make all the boosts equal (pots/prayers). Remove/remake/create a lot of new items/old items to rebalance it all in terms of accuracy boosts and max hits. They put NO thought into any items when creating. It reminded me of when people tried to make hacked SP characters on Open Battle.net Diablo 2. You could edit the game and make everything OP + make gear more unique/cooler sounding/greater effects, but most just chose to keep adding on bullshit until someone said [bleep] IT! I'll make it so that I instakill everyone unless they use a never-ending Pi equation to keep mana shield + mana regen higher than their dps!

 

Anyway!.. Let's get back to max hit calculation. Assume Chaotic, Dragonstone bolts (crushing range)/Dragon arrows(stabbing range), and Fire surge are the strongest/highest hitting things in combat.

 

They would -all- have to max at 460 base. Then you determine which boost goes in what order. You could say that each armor piece of x style gives a damage boost, but I don't feel like adding in more crap. Let's keep it at accuracies and max hits..

 

We're going to make it so prayers boost your gear's stats, not your combat level stats. Potions will be your skill level boost (that way prayers do NOT cause a [bleep]ed up max hit calc due to overlap with pots, or an excessive % gain because of the boost in dmg you get from mage/range/str levels is so high).

 

Since prayers need balancing overall on armor, and att, and str bonuses, you need to be careful of where you set the %'s to. That way it increases your max hit on same-style armor, but nothing more than 5-9% total. That would mean that you need to reversemath my calc-ok frigging hell.

 

 

I seem to have messed up my math earlier on. I don't know how I did but I cbf typing anymore anyway.

 

Basic principle of post: Easy as HELL to rewrite everything, fix calculations. Don't need to add in EVEN MORE SHIT TO MAKE THIS GAME SEEM BETTER WHEN IT JUST DESTROYS IT.

I'll finish this up some other time. For now, cya.

[Ammako]

[...]

Should change sig to "Why I will quit RuneScape over Beta content-which-isn't-even-100%-set-in-stone-yet"

[Omali]

Needless to say, I made a new sig today :).

 

RS combat is fine as it is, it needs 'balancing' still, but it's better than the heap Jagex is trying to do. I cannot tell if they're trying to make it more complicated and player-skill-based (because with most games, that is based on mindfocus and apm), or just trying to reach the very bottom of combat and make it so that every "OMFG AWESOME" addition to it will not disrupt the lower tiers.

 

I'm leaning towards the first bit because anyone with 1/3 of their brain gone still knows that all you have to do is change how damage is calculated, accuracy boosts, item amounts based on tiers and style, fix weaknesses correctly and make weaknesses/strengths less equal (see dmg calculation when adding turmoil, strength, and potion boosts).

 

RuneScape's combat has always been shit. It was shit during Classic and it remains shit in RS2. Like every other aspect of RuneScape, it is something people do while doing something else. With the exception of PvP and related mini-games, combat is just a slightly more complicated version of skilling. Boring, monotonous, and requires a subscription to Netflix Instant Streaming or a Kindle to enjoy. It's old, obsolete, boring as hell, and considering that Jagex is ripping it out and replacing it, I'm guessing incompatible with many of RuneScape's new/upcoming systems. It's no wonder people are complaining that the new combat update actually requires their attention.

 

RuneScape's combat system needs a lot more than just a few small adjustments. As far as games go, RuneScape's combat system is slightly more immersive than Ultima 1 from the 1980s

[Platinum_Myr]

I don't feel that the current content system is that horrible at the high end. I certainly never felt like I had to read kindle or stream netflix during combat. (Honestly never been able to scape and read at the same time... Netflix is easy enough though)

 

I happen to enjoy many parts of the game without resorting to half-playing while watching TV. You may feel that way about the game, but not *everyone* does.

[palebandgeek]

I came back because even if some of the updates are unecessary, playing it brings me back to older times and it makes me feel good. Lazy, but good.

[Crit2h]

What if the combat overhaul fails? Or goes too OP on some stuff? What happens to most players? Quit combat which is essential to some or most skills?

[Omali]

What if the combat overhaul fails? Or goes too OP on some stuff? What happens to most players? Quit combat which is essential to some or most skills?

 

Just look at Star Wars Galaxies. When they overhauled the combat system and no one liked it, everyone just quit.

[sir_kur1ty]

Right now, skill in RuneScape combat tends to be measured by things like how quickly you can switch between interfaces; odd features like "prayer flashing"; keeping your combat levels artificially low; or timing the click of when you eat food to avoid missing a hit. While those things are skilful (and I admire those players that have mastered those strange arts), none of them are about combat itself, or knowledge of combat. There's nothing about what weapons to use and when; nothing about how to respond to your opponent in PvP - none of it relates to tactics used in real battles... and I think it should. It's often a case of being lucky, or just having the GP to buy the best equipment, which brings us nicely to our first point...

source: http://services.rune...variety-and-fun

 

Think that is the third-to-last Og Blog.

 

the only thing that post says is how the current combat is unskillful (alot of it being untrue might i add), and nothing about how the new system will help improve it.

 

There's nothing about what weapons to use and when; nothing about how to respond to your opponent in PvP

 

um, wait, what? isnt that the entire point of hybriding?

 

seems like jagex wants us to make our decisions before a fight, then play it out while spamming cooldowns, wow-style, as opposed to being able to dynamically switch styles during a fight.

 

personally i think the system is far from perfect right now, but i don't think the best way to fix it is by removing the ability to switch weapons/armor.

[decebal]

Right now, skill in RuneScape combat tends to be measured by things like how quickly you can switch between interfaces; odd features like "prayer flashing"; keeping your combat levels artificially low; or timing the click of when you eat food to avoid missing a hit. While those things are skilful (and I admire those players that have mastered those strange arts), none of them are about combat itself, or knowledge of combat. There's nothing about what weapons to use and when; nothing about how to respond to your opponent in PvP - none of it relates to tactics used in real battles... and I think it should. It's often a case of being lucky, or just having the GP to buy the best equipment, which brings us nicely to our first point...

source: http://services.rune...variety-and-fun

 

Think that is the third-to-last Og Blog.

 

the only thing that post says is how the current combat is unskillful (alot of it being untrue might i add), and nothing about how the new system will help improve it.

 

Isn't it obvious? The new abilities will make combat more reactive by activating abilities to force the opponent's hand, take them out, freak them out, or to prevent the opponent from damaging you. It's worked well for other hotkey MMO's, especially in pvp. If you don't believe that requires skill, you haven't seen high-level pvp (or ranked pvp) in hotkey MMO's.

[swagcake]

rs sucks now, i miss the old days too. It used to be fun playing, now Jagex is just getting money hungry

[ShadyAntics]

I understand where you're coming from, the excitement of it being new is now gone, but that will happen with pretty much anything, they are bringing out updates more often now to try and re-fresh those players interest who are now finding the game to be more of a chore. Sure, a fair few of the updates are pretty poor, quality wise (SoF being a major one currently) but there are still a lot of good up and coming updates (questing etc)

 

Which brings me on to the reason I play, I enjoy questing (Of course I like skilling and PvM also) but the main reason I play is to do the quests. Meeting new people is also another plus.

 

Runescape will change whether you like it or not, a lot of people dislike change because they enjoy what they know, yet they complain about it being boring at times because it's 'the same old thing'. Sometimes I feel the developers can't win. Of course I disagree with their sudden injection of RWT, but they are trying to make the game better (An example is Combat Beta) - They are attempting to make an aspect of the game that has been the same for so long, more involved and more interesting.

 

I think the fact that when most of us joined, we were much younger is also another major factor. People 'outgrow' things, in this case people have outgrown Runescape.