"Insight Venture Partners" filtered on the RSOF

[Hedgehog]

When the whole Kony thing was going on, people changed their names to "stop kony" and stuff and Jagex made them change them back.

[Yoko Kurama]

When the whole Kony thing was going on, people changed their names to "stop kony" and stuff and Jagex made them change them back.

 

I was thinking more along the lines of controversial stuff; for example, sites which refused to partner up with Jagex were censored. People who complained about Jagex's policy on not refunding items if lost due to a glitch on account of Jagex(the mobilising armies glitch) were also censored. I don't have many examples on hand, but this sort of stuff was not uncommon.

[Urza285]

And assuming jagex held its own to the community with great updates your argument would fall flat on its face. Of course so many players feel jagex updates have been substandard and that's mostly because most people over criticize them and hold them to a higher than achievable standard anyways.

 

Jagex and IVP owns the rights to decide how jagex will function. Players do not have those rights because jagex is not a "mom and pop shop" where customers concerns are held to the highest concern. When I feel RWT content has become a higher priority over members content then maybe you and I will see eye to eye, but until then I feel there is no legitimate concern.

 

Next yes we are in a discussion, but, sorry a lot being said is whining.

[Alg]

And assuming jagex held its own to the community with great updates your argument would fall flat on its face. Of course so many players feel jagex updates have been substandard and that's mostly because most people over criticize them and hold them to a higher than achievable standard anyways.

 

Jagex and IVP owns the rights to decide how jagex will function. Players do not have those rights because jagex is not a "mom and pop shop" where customers concerns are held to the highest concern. When I feel RWT content has become a higher priority over members content then maybe you and I will see eye to eye, but until then I feel there is no legitimate concern.

The problem is that this allows you (And like-minded players) to ignore completely valid complaints as 'whining'. The whining is there, but some players have a good reason to complain.

 

Jagex isn't perfect, but lately they've been giving their detractors a lot of ammunition, like MMG's Squeal post a couple of months ago.

[Ruinous Edge]

And assuming jagex held its own to the community with great updates your argument would fall flat on its face. Of course so many players feel jagex updates have been substandard and that's mostly because most people over criticize them and hold them to a higher than achievable standard anyways.

 

Jagex and IVP owns the rights to decide how jagex will function. Players do not have those rights because jagex is not a "mom and pop shop" where customers concerns are held to the highest concern. When I feel RWT content has become a higher priority over members content then maybe you and I will see eye to eye, but until then I feel there is no legitimate concern.

 

Next yes we are in a discussion, but, sorry a lot being said is whining.

How about the fact we have had more RWT updates this last 2 or 3 months than quests this year? (assuming you take every SOF update as an individual + solomon)

Oh yes and that shambolic piece of pr by MMG claiming 90% of players support buyable spins :/

[Urza285]

And assuming jagex held its own to the community with great updates your argument would fall flat on its face. Of course so many players feel jagex updates have been substandard and that's mostly because most people over criticize them and hold them to a higher than achievable standard anyways.

 

Jagex and IVP owns the rights to decide how jagex will function. Players do not have those rights because jagex is not a "mom and pop shop" where customers concerns are held to the highest concern. When I feel RWT content has become a higher priority over members content then maybe you and I will see eye to eye, but until then I feel there is no legitimate concern.

The problem is that this allows you (And like-minded players) to ignore completely valid complaints as 'whining'. The whining is there, but some players have a good reason to complain.

 

Jagex isn't perfect, but lately they've been giving their detractors a lot of ammunition, like MMG's Squeal post a couple of months ago.

Right now I think it's best for me to explain myself to not come off as heartless to the matter. I try not to look at things from a near wholey negative or positive way. Likewise I would like I say I believe there is discussion value in everything (albeit scarce or redundant at times). That doesn't mean it's worth much of anyone's time especially if it is such a poorly executed or minute thought on a heavy hearted matter. I try to keep a look at all arguments that things are not all black and white, but a shade of gray.

 

Sure I do agree that jagex is doing something not necessarily beneficial to the games community. But when it comes to making money it's a necessary evil to spend time and effort doing so for ones survival down the road instead of floundering around and playing around all the time. In jagex case this would be doing everything in absolution for the gaming communities sake versus doing something less enjoyable and not exactly to the spirit of the game, but for the sake of making money... Which is the inclusion of micro transactions to boost the companies revenue. This reminds me of the parable of the Ant and the Grasshopper. Whoever mentioned about jagex doing what was necessary to not go under might understand where I was going with this parable.

[The Floating Pen]

Honestly, SoF and Solomon's Store are not RWT updates. SoF is very close, but it's not quite RWT.

 

If you want to support RuneScape, and you have the money to do so, the only way to actually use your money was buying membership. No one was going to buy membership on multiple characters just because they felt like helping Jagex out.

Now, those people with spare money, a desire to support their favorite game, and suckers for a nifty emote/costume/animation can freely spend lots of money on this game. That's not necessarily a bad thing, and no one can deny that Jagex doesn't gain revenue from these approaches.

 

I feel like Jagex has needed another source of revenue for a long time. They make all this content, and people stay subscribed. That's pretty much it. If they didn't release another update for a full year (some people might be happy about that, actually), many people would still stay subscribed to enjoy the already-existing content.

 

I hate it too, but I'd rather have a RuneScape full of rich players wearing fancy costumes than no RuneScape at all.

[Urza285]

Honestly, SoF and Solomon's Store are not RWT updates. SoF is very close, but it's not quite RWT.

 

If you want to support RuneScape, and you have the money to do so, the only way to actually use your money was buying membership. No one was going to buy membership on multiple characters just because they felt like helping Jagex out.

Now, those people with spare money, a desire to support their favorite game, and suckers for a nifty emote/costume/animation can freely spend lots of money on this game. That's not necessarily a bad thing, and no one can deny that Jagex doesn't gain revenue from these approaches.

 

I feel like Jagex has needed another source of revenue for a long time. They make all this content, and people stay subscribed. That's pretty much it. If they didn't release another update for a full year (some people might be happy about that, actually), many people would still stay subscribed to enjoy the already-existing content.

 

I hate it too, but I'd rather have a RuneScape full of rich players wearing fancy costumes than no RuneScape at all.

Honestly very well put, simple and catches the exchange of service experience that I truly believe jagex is trying show its players. While membership might have been the only thing people thought to pay out for now there is variation.

 

Assuming the above post full mapped how jagex viewed Solomon and SoF... I suppose jagex could have made an effort to publicly express what these things mean for the business. Maybe they decided against that because they thought it was redundant? I mean it's not like a big business to humble themselves by saying look what we br

[Yoko Kurama]

I feel like Jagex has needed another source of revenue for a long time. They make all this content, and people stay subscribed. That's pretty much it. If they didn't release another update for a full year (some people might be happy about that, actually), many people would still stay subscribed to enjoy the already-existing content.

 

I hate it too, but I'd rather have a RuneScape full of rich players wearing fancy costumes than no RuneScape at all.

 

It's a completely false dichotomy. Firstly, under the old model, Jagex had two sources of revenue(at least); membership and advertising. Secondly, the Gowers, simply on the basis of the old model, managed to take what was essentially a throw-away hobby and turn it into a multi-millionaire enterprise, one of the most popular and longest running MMORPGS of all time. On this model, the Gowers were able to make hundreds of millions of pounds, for themselves alone. And we are to believe that this wasn't enough? I am sorry Jagex aren't billionaires. They were able to run on that model of only subscription and ad revenue for over 10 years, so it was certainly a sustainable model. That was when membership cost 5$, and they raised about 5 million dollars a month.

 

Since then, they have raised membership prices(I have no problem with this) and started the micro transactions. Jagex hardly needed another major source of revenue, and they certainly would not be out of business, or anywhere near there if they got rid of the recent string of stuff. It's simply a false dichotomy:give Jagex more money or the game goes under. Not true at all.

[Urza285]

Honestly, SoF and Solomon's Store are not RWT updates. SoF is very close, but it's not quite RWT.

 

If you want to support RuneScape, and you have the money to do so, the only way to actually use your money was buying membership. No one was going to buy membership on multiple characters just because they felt like helping Jagex out.

Now, those people with spare money, a desire to support their favorite game, and suckers for a nifty emote/costume/animation can freely spend lots of money on this game. That's not necessarily a bad thing, and no one can deny that Jagex doesn't gain revenue from these approaches.

 

I feel like Jagex has needed another source of revenue for a long time. They make all this content, and people stay subscribed. That's pretty much it. If they didn't release another update for a full year (some people might be happy about that, actually), many people would still stay subscribed to enjoy the already-existing content.

 

I hate it too, but I'd rather have a RuneScape full of rich players wearing fancy costumes than no RuneScape at all.

Honestly very well put, simple and catches the exchange of service experience that I truly believe jagex is trying show its players. While membership might have been the only thing people thought to pay out for now there is variation.

 

Assuming the above post fully expressed how jagex viewed Solomon and SoF... I suppose jagex could have made an effort to publicly express what these things mean for the business. Maybe they decided against that because they thought it was redundant? I mean it's not like a big business to humble themselves by saying "look what we brought to the game. If you really like something buy it. If you do you'll further help support the game you love and help it grow." Ideally, and looking back I think Jagex should have taken a more transparent approach such as that versus their usual hyped up for the fans one.

[Urza285]

I feel like Jagex has needed another source of revenue for a long time. They make all this content, and people stay subscribed. That's pretty much it. If they didn't release another update for a full year (some people might be happy about that, actually), many people would still stay subscribed to enjoy the already-existing content.

 

I hate it too, but I'd rather have a RuneScape full of rich players wearing fancy costumes than no RuneScape at all.

 

It's a completely false dichotomy. Firstly, under the old model, Jagex had two sources of revenue(at least); membership and advertising. Secondly, the Gowers, simply on the basis of the old model, managed to take what was essentially a throw-away hobby and turn it into a multi-millionaire enterprise, one of the most popular and longest running MMORPGS of all time. On this model, the Gowers were able to make hundreds of millions of pounds, for themselves alone. And we are to believe that this wasn't enough? I am sorry Jagex aren't billionaires. They were able to run on that model of only subscription and ad revenue for over 10 years, so it was certainly a sustainable model. That was when membership cost 5$, and they raised about 5 million dollars a month.

 

Since then, they have raised membership prices(I have no problem with this) and started the micro transactions. Jagex hardly needed another major source of revenue, and they certainly would not be out of business, or anywhere near there if they got rid of the recent string of stuff. It's simply a false dichotomy:give Jagex more money or the game goes under. Not true at all.

You have no budget numbers or anything making your argument moot. You and everyone else knows that's a business isn't just created to make and sell a product, have a flatline growth or make no moves to expand and broaden its horizons.

 

It was clearly obvious he was trying to simplify the explanation of how a business secures financial means to grow without cutting itself financially thin, stagnating and then going under. Business grow like trees where the bigger they get the more money it takes to run them. You can't honestly expect jagex as a business to keep running and grow from its previous revenue. If you considered the amount of people who felt jagex always rushed updates, made poor updates or oversimplified updates... Think about what investors might be able to do to remedy these plaguing issues we constantly face. Jagex just didn't roll belly up when investors came knocking... They had to open the door because they had something to offer to their studios. I do not believe that jagex let them in purely for the money because the people that work their ENJOY their jobs and the game they play. On the flip side the investors didn't come just to help bring a game to ruin. I am sure they are aware how the community feels about RWT and don't want to crash their investments and lose money.

[pulli23]

Those who say "jagex is a company" simply forget the oldest rule in the book: the consumer is king.

 

 

Simply put if you do things the consumer doesn't like you'll end up hurting yourself at some point. Might not be a year, might take 2 years but in the long run it damages your company, not only the product but the company as a whole suffers when you don't put the consumer at the heighest position.

[Urza285]

Those who say "jagex is a company" simply forget the oldest rule in the book: the consumer is king.

 

Simply put if you do things the consumer doesn't like you'll end up hurting yourself at some point. Might not be a year, might take 2 years but in the long run it damages your company, not only the product but the company as a whole suffers when you don't put the consumer at the heighest position.

If that were the case jagex would have been pulled in every conceivable angle and direction without making much effort to really truly develope the game they created.

 

We aren't dealing with just a business, but a business that is the owner of a piece of artwork created and still being created for over ten years. What the customers expect doesn't matter nearly as much as the creators views and expectations are for the game because they are taking what they have thought up and put it into a semi tangible piece of work.

[Jonanananas]

I feel like Jagex has needed another source of revenue for a long time. They make all this content, and people stay subscribed. That's pretty much it. If they didn't release another update for a full year (some people might be happy about that, actually), many people would still stay subscribed to enjoy the already-existing content.

 

I hate it too, but I'd rather have a RuneScape full of rich players wearing fancy costumes than no RuneScape at all.

 

It's a completely false dichotomy. Firstly, under the old model, Jagex had two sources of revenue(at least); membership and advertising. Secondly, the Gowers, simply on the basis of the old model, managed to take what was essentially a throw-away hobby and turn it into a multi-millionaire enterprise, one of the most popular and longest running MMORPGS of all time. On this model, the Gowers were able to make hundreds of millions of pounds, for themselves alone. And we are to believe that this wasn't enough? I am sorry Jagex aren't billionaires. They were able to run on that model of only subscription and ad revenue for over 10 years, so it was certainly a sustainable model. That was when membership cost 5$, and they raised about 5 million dollars a month.

 

Since then, they have raised membership prices(I have no problem with this) and started the micro transactions. Jagex hardly needed another major source of revenue, and they certainly would not be out of business, or anywhere near there if they got rid of the recent string of stuff. It's simply a false dichotomy:give Jagex more money or the game goes under. Not true at all.

You have no budget numbers or anything making your argument moot. You and everyone else knows that's a business isn't just created to make and sell a product, have a flatline growth or make no moves to expand and broaden its horizons.

 

It was clearly obvious he was trying to simplify the explanation of how a business secures financial means to grow without cutting itself financially thin, stagnating and then going under. Business grow like trees where the bigger they get the more money it takes to run them. You can't honestly expect jagex as a business to keep running and grow from its previous revenue. If you considered the amount of people who felt jagex always rushed updates, made poor updates or oversimplified updates... Think about what investors might be able to do to remedy these plaguing issues we constantly face. Jagex just didn't roll belly up when investors came knocking... They had to open the door because they had something to offer to their studios. I do not believe that jagex let them in purely for the money because the people that work their ENJOY their jobs and the game they play. On the flip side the investors didn't come just to help bring a game to ruin. I am sure they are aware how the community feels about RWT and don't want to crash their investments and lose money.

 

Excuse the shameless plug, but have a look at the current Tip.it Times article by me. Jagex's profits were down quite a lot last year. Supposedly for development of new games, and until now not one project by Jagex except Runescape was ever really successful.

[pulli23]

Those who say "jagex is a company" simply forget the oldest rule in the book: the consumer is king.

 

Simply put if you do things the consumer doesn't like you'll end up hurting yourself at some point. Might not be a year, might take 2 years but in the long run it damages your company, not only the product but the company as a whole suffers when you don't put the consumer at the heighest position.

If that were the case jagex would have been pulled in every conceivable angle and direction without making much effort to really truly develope the game they created.

 

We aren't dealing with just a business, but a business that is the owner of a piece of artwork created and still being created for over ten years. What the customers expect doesn't matter nearly as much as the creators views and expectations are for the game because they are taking what they have thought up and put it into a semi tangible piece of work.

 

You never wonder why new games made by jagex aren't a succes? (Compare that to diablo 3). As I said: for the product itself the consumers don't really bother: they already bought and keep resubscribing anyways, until they get bored. However for a future (new) product the image of a company & the quality in the past is very important. So unless jagex just plans to go bankrupt after runescape they should make sure to get a good amount of customers who are happy with the direction jagex goes.

[Yoko Kurama]

You have no budget numbers or anything making your argument moot.

 

 

More hasty and baseless divisiveness on your part. While I didn't present any hard numbers in that post, nothing I said was false or controversial. Not only is financial information on Jagex easy to find; there was a popular user on these forums by the name of "Ren" who use to post such information frequently.

 

I assumed a few things in my post.

A) that Jagex has been profitable over the years, this is true and easily verifiable.

 

B) that under the old model, Jagex use to raise at least 5 million dollars a month from subscriptions. This is not hard to calculate, there were roughly 1 million P2P players, and it cost 5 dollars per month, so you get 5 million dollars per month, at the very least

 

C) The Gower brothers made hundreds of millions of pounds from RS; once again, a simple matter of facts; any quick google search will reveal that are worth around at least 200 million pounds.

 

So what part of my post was baseless, or invalidated my argument? If I have been wrong in any of this, I would happy to offer a formal retraction.

 

I will be waiting for you to back up your false accusation and show me how my argument was "moot". I won't be hold by breath though.

 

You and everyone else knows that's a business isn't just created to make and sell a product, have a flatline growth or make no moves to expand and broaden its horizons.

 

I am not sure how this refutes in any way what I already said: that Jagex was making a lot of money under the old model, and especially enough to try their hand at numerous other projects, it's just that all those projects ended up mostly failing. No one, certainly not me, is opposed to Jagex broadening their horizons or branching out in other projects.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It was clearly obvious he was trying to simplify the explanation of how a business secures financial means to grow without cutting itself financially thin, stagnating and then going under.

 

 

No, the part of his post which I highlighted and responded to presented a false dichotomy where unless Jagex was given another source of revenue the game would cease to exist, this was false.

 

 

Business grow like trees where the bigger they get the more money it takes to run them. You can't honestly expect jagex as a business to keep running and grow from its previous revenue.

 

 

Strawman. I never stated that Jagex should operate on the same revenue forever. I simply asserted that another source of revenue was not immediately critical for them to continue to exist. It is obvious that Jagex should branch out as far as they can.

 

 

Jagex just didn't roll belly up when investors came knocking... They had to open the door because they had something to offer to their studios.

 

 

Another thing which no disputed. No one thinks Jagex should turn away investors. In fact, IVP has been a major investor in RS for years, since at least 2005, and the game was fine. The problem is not that they are involved at all. The problem is that they(an entity which doesn't really understand Runescape, nor its community or its various needs, nor can it relate to said community) now has majority ownership(55%). That's the problem.

[Urza285]

Those who say "jagex is a company" simply forget the oldest rule in the book: the consumer is king.

 

Simply put if you do things the consumer doesn't like you'll end up hurting yourself at some point. Might not be a year, might take 2 years but in the long run it damages your company, not only the product but the company as a whole suffers when you don't put the consumer at the heighest position.

If that were the case jagex would have been pulled in every conceivable angle and direction without making much effort to really truly develope the game they created.

 

We aren't dealing with just a business, but a business that is the owner of a piece of artwork created and still being created for over ten years. What the customers expect doesn't matter nearly as much as the creators views and expectations are for the game because they are taking what they have thought up and put it into a semi tangible piece of work.

 

You never wonder why new games made by jagex aren't a succes? (Compare that to diablo 3). As I said: for the product itself the consumers don't really bother: they already bought and keep resubscribing anyways, until they get bored. However for a future (new) product the image of a company & the quality in the past is very important. So unless jagex just plans to go bankrupt after runescape they should make sure to get a good amount of customers who are happy with the direction jagex goes.

If thats the case all I see is an issue with coping with change where a large change is introduced and people who are used to seeing the same routine... Tuesday updates, BTS, teasers, holiday events, etc.... Until things take a seemingly dirastic turn with the introduction of micro transactions. Players are going through the exact same thing with the combat beta. They feel they have to conform to the combat update coming while they actually do not. The same can be seen with these microtransactions as players might feel they must pay money outside of their membership to enjoy the game. While they do not actually have to do so to enjoy the game, but if they feel compelled because that's what stands between them and these pieces of content they may be clamering to have in their possession.

[Jonanananas]

You have no budget numbers or anything making your argument moot.

 

 

More hasty and baseless divisiveness on your part. While I didn't present any hard numbers in that post, nothing I said was false or controversial. Not only is financial information on Jagex easy to find; there was a popular user on these forums by the name of "Ren" who use to post such information frequently.

 

I assumed a few things in my post.

A) that Jagex has been profitable over the years, this is true and easily verifiable.

 

B) that under the old model, Jagex use to raise at least 5 million dollars a month from subscriptions. This is not hard to calculate, there were roughly 1 million P2P players, and it cost 5 dollars per month, so you get 5 million dollars per month, at the very least

 

C) The Gower brothers made hundreds of millions of pounds from RS; once again, a simple matter of facts; any quick google search will reveal that are worth around at least 200 million pounds.

 

So what part of my post was baseless, or invalidated my argument? If I have been wrong in any of this, I would happy to offer a formal retraction.

 

I will be waiting for you to back up your false accusation and show me how my argument was "moot". I won't be hold by breath though.

 

You and everyone else knows that's a business isn't just created to make and sell a product, have a flatline growth or make no moves to expand and broaden its horizons.

 

I am not sure how this refutes in any way what I already said: that Jagex was making a lot of money under the old model, and especially enough to try their hand at numerous other projects, it's just that all those projects ended up mostly failing. No one, certainly not me, is opposed to Jagex broadening their horizons or branching out in other projects.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It was clearly obvious he was trying to simplify the explanation of how a business secures financial means to grow without cutting itself financially thin, stagnating and then going under.

 

 

No, the part of his post which I highlighted and responded to presented a false dichotomy where unless Jagex was given another source of revenue the game would cease to exist, this was false.

 

 

Business grow like trees where the bigger they get the more money it takes to run them. You can't honestly expect jagex as a business to keep running and grow from its previous revenue.

 

 

Strawman. I never stated that Jagex should operate on the same revenue forever. I simply asserted that another source of revenue was not immediately critical for them to continue to exist. It is obvious that Jagex should branch out as far as they can.

 

 

Jagex just didn't roll belly up when investors came knocking... They had to open the door because they had something to offer to their studios.

 

 

Another thing which no disputed. No one thinks Jagex should turn away investors. In fact, IVP has been a major investor in RS for years, since at least 2005, and the game was fine. The problem is not that they are involved at all. The problem is that they(an entity which doesn't really understand Runescape, nor its community or its various needs, nor can it relate to said community) now has majority ownership(55%). That's the problem.

 

 

Jagex's profit went down several million in 2010/11. That doesn't sound like a healthy company. They said they are putting money into development and so far, every "development" we've had by Jagex failed. While I agree with you that IVP's majority share isn't good for Jagex, I think you can easily say that Jagex will have trouble running Runescape without some new source of revenue.

[D. V. Devnull]

Having read this thread, I can definitely say that Jagex has made yet another bad-for-business move. You can't cover up what is being said without further angering people, as it will cause more bad word-of-mouth to pass about and around. Heck, people can always check Wikipedia, and that will cause a crushing wall to fall on a company any day. That, and all the other sites that become aware over time other than what belongs to a company. :-w

 

~D. V. "Seeing the obviously unavoidable..." Devnull

[Sly_Wizard]

I don't understand why people are complaining about one of Jagex's private investors. Would some of you rather have had the game go under (well, metaphorically speaking)? As far as Jagex censoring IVP on their forums, I don't see what the big deal is. It's really nothing that should be of concern to any Runescape player.

 

It becomes a point of major concern when Jagex can't seem to make anything sustainable other than RuneScape, and even then they're slowly sucking what morals it had right out.

 

This is a really bad straw man. What does your statement have to do with mine, other than to try to make some false link between IVP and, say, Jagex deciding to axe Stellar Dawn?

 

Seriously. I want to know.

 

They are doing so because it directly influences us. Their involvement directly influences the game, and some people feel, that lately it has influenced the game for the worse; with a great deal of Jagex's effort being spent on money grabbing micro transaction content, as opposed to effort spent on any actual, real in-game content(of which there has been little, lately). IVP clearly is not interested in the gaming industry, aside from how much money they can rake out of it. Unlike the Gowers, that is not their passion. They don't have any attachment to the game or its community. Only in money. This negatively affects us. For the Gowers, it was different, were they interested in maximizing profits? Yes. But not at any costs. Why not? Because Runescape was their baby. They had a passion and emotional attachment to the game so they were able to balance the various interests(more profit vs a better and affordable game). There's nothing wrong with pursing money. However, IVP's interests are directly opposed to that of the players. Whereas the Gowers balanced the interests, IVP is disproportionately interested in making more money. I am not saying they are bad people or are deliberately trying to destroy RS, all I am saying is they don't understand nor relate to the game the way the Gowers use to(or a game developer would), and that's a problem. It is important for people in power to tied to the land, as the old nationalists use to say.

 

It's the same reason why people complain when foreign industry starts overtaking domestic industry, domestically because local industry actually has to deal with the consequences of their actions; because they live where the business takes places. Foreign industry can just pack their bags when shit hits the fan, and thus they are detached from the process.

 

I don't have to made a long-winded post refuting the above, as it's a statement made out of gross ignorance. No company-- no investor-- sets out to actively ruin their investment. It's that simple.

 

BTW> People complain when a "foreign industry" takes over a "domestic industry" because people have been led to believe that foreign = bad and domestic = good. You see it quite often.

[highlanders]

I don't understand why people are complaining about one of Jagex's private investors. Would some of you rather have had the game go under (well, metaphorically speaking)? As far as Jagex censoring IVP on their forums, I don't see what the big deal is. It's really nothing that should be of concern to any Runescape player.

 

It becomes a point of major concern when Jagex can't seem to make anything sustainable other than RuneScape, and even then they're slowly sucking what morals it had right out.

 

This is a really bad straw man. What does your statement have to do with mine, other than to try to make some false link between IVP and, say, Jagex deciding to axe Stellar Dawn?

 

Seriously. I want to know.

I love how you accuse this guy of using a straw man when in your quoted post you committed the false dilemma fallacy. Derp.

[Alg]

I love how you accuse this guy of using a straw man when in your quoted post you committed the false dilemma fallacy. Derp.

It's the one constant of internet debates. Somewhere along the line, somebody is going to name drop a logical fallacy or two, with or without knowing how they work. It's followed by the part where people stop discussing the points that the other side raised.

 

:twss:

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

I don't understand why people are complaining about one of Jagex's private investors. Would some of you rather have had the game go under (well, metaphorically speaking)? As far as Jagex censoring IVP on their forums, I don't see what the big deal is. It's really nothing that should be of concern to any Runescape player.

 

It becomes a point of major concern when Jagex can't seem to make anything sustainable other than RuneScape, and even then they're slowly sucking what morals it had right out.

 

This is a really bad straw man. What does your statement have to do with mine, other than to try to make some false link between IVP and, say, Jagex deciding to axe Stellar Dawn?

 

Seriously. I want to know.

 

I'll start from the top.

 

First, you mention complaining about one of Jagex's private investors. Complaining, or voicing negative feedback in general, has always been an awkward thing for Jagex to react to - sometimes they take it in stride, sometimes they ignore it, sometimes they try to squash it outright. It doesn't stop players from voicing their opinion about the state of any one of their products.

 

As to the flames directed towards IVP in particular - they've done similar things with MapleStory. This wasn't something that Jagex stood for to begin with, but now it seems like they've done a complete 180 on their perceived morals.

 

Second, whether or not the game would go under because the investors didn't step in is probably up for debate. I mean sure, Jagex's financial outlook for last fiscal year was none too pretty, but would that have meant that they go under? [Warning: opinion] Had they focused on adding content that both the players wanted, and increased the appeal of their game, then that wouldn't have been a major concern. The bot nuke was a step in the right direction (preceded by a few updates that set them back 30 steps). Had they rolled this beta out a bit sooner, that would've helped. Adding more engaging quests, improving existing skills, reworking some aspect of the game that gets a lot of whine - all of this would have helped assuage any fears of Jagex needing cash. Adding content like SoF and Solomon's Store doesn't expand the game, it's just leeching off of it. It may be a sign that the game is in dire financial straights, but going under is tough, considering that it still brings in at least a healthy $2M/month.[/Warning]

 

Third, it's not that big of a deal, but it leads to the Streisand Effect. As stated earlier, one of Jagex's major shortcomings is reacting to negative criticism about some aspect of themselves - be this daily operations, updates, statements made by JMods, reactions given by JMods, and so forth. Censoring that name only intensifies discussion about the investors, and it gets less flattering by the second.

 

Lastly, the situation should be of concern to any RS player.

 

RuneScape is the only apparent way Jagex is making sustainable income.

Developers do not like a bounced paycheck.

Spending tens of millions on projects that don't break even (at minimum) is a big problem.

 

Then you have the situation where microtransaction-like features are bolted into the one product that's still doing alright, which for many players, is why they chose that product in the first place. This causes those players to leave. It's not a good spot for the player that's enjoyed this game throughout their childhood, or the software developers that have to pay their car note/insurance/rent/utilities/food/buy new clothing/buy new phone/miscellaneous.

[Sir_Squab]

With a little under 1.3m players, we should be looking at closer to like, 6m-8m a month from membership fees, maybe more. Maaaaayyyyybe as low as 5m. (P2P only highscore makes this easy, but you have to account for membership trials, especially membership trial bots.)

[Yoko Kurama]

I don't have to made a long-winded post refuting the above, as it's a statement made out of gross ignorance. No company-- no investor-- sets out to actively ruin their investment. It's that simple.

 

And if you had bothered to read what was said(which you obviously did not do) before rushing off to quote it, you would have noticed that I specifically and explicitely stated that I do not think Jagex is deliberately trying to destroy the game, nor do I think they are bad people. It's a simple matter of interests, their interests conflict with that of the player base, that is where the problem stems from.

 

BTW> People complain when a "foreign industry" takes over a "domestic industry" because people have been led to believe that foreign = bad and domestic = good. You see it quite often.

 

And there are perfectly sound reasons for that; it is never a good idea to hand over your economy to people who are detached from the local community and thus unaccountable. That doesn't mean foreign business is bad; no, trade is invaluable and completely necessary, you just can't let foreign entities completely takeover local economies, particularly at the expense of local businesses. In any case, that's another topic for another day, even if I did raise that analogy myself.