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Does revenge lead to regret?


Omar
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http://forum.tip.it/topic/192134-i-want-a-girlfriendboyfriend-and-other-such-relationship-advice/page__st__12480#entry5289284

 

Following a discussion on whether it is a good idea to give into our desire for vengeance, I call upon you, OT. Tell us the following: if you've ever avenged yourself (or someone else, please specify) for a perceived slight...

 

In response to what did you do it?

How?

When?

Do/did you regret it?

When did the guilt kick in?

In any case, on a scale of one to ten, ten being very hurtful and one being not hurtful at all, how would you rate the injury and the revenge?

Did the person with whom you evened things out reciprocate?

 

Also, have you ever been on the receiving end? Did this make you want to reciprocate? Did you?

 

I'll be keeping track of this and I'll post results when I feel like I've got enough data. Post away!

Matt: You want that eh? You want everything good for you. You want everything that's--falls off garbage can

Camera guy: Whoa, haha, are you okay dude?

Matt: You want anything funny that happens, don't you?

Camera guy: still laughing

Matt: You want the funny shit that happens here and there, you think it comes out of your [bleep]ing [wagon] pushes garbage can down, don't you? You think it's funny? It comes out of here! running towards Camera guy

Camera guy: runs away still laughing

Matt: You think the funny comes out of your mother[bleep]ing creativity? Comes out of Satan, mother[bleep]er! nn--ngh! pushes Camera guy down

Camera guy: Hoooholy [bleep]!

Matt: FUNNY ISN'T REAL! FUNNY ISN'T REAL!

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Revenge only leads to revenge and the cycle cannot be broken unless someone forgives.

That's exactly the kind of reply I don't want to see. That's an opinion which may or may not be corroborated later on.

Matt: You want that eh? You want everything good for you. You want everything that's--falls off garbage can

Camera guy: Whoa, haha, are you okay dude?

Matt: You want anything funny that happens, don't you?

Camera guy: still laughing

Matt: You want the funny shit that happens here and there, you think it comes out of your [bleep]ing [wagon] pushes garbage can down, don't you? You think it's funny? It comes out of here! running towards Camera guy

Camera guy: runs away still laughing

Matt: You think the funny comes out of your mother[bleep]ing creativity? Comes out of Satan, mother[bleep]er! nn--ngh! pushes Camera guy down

Camera guy: Hoooholy [bleep]!

Matt: FUNNY ISN'T REAL! FUNNY ISN'T REAL!

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Revenge only leads to revenge and the cycle cannot be broken unless someone forgives.

That's exactly the kind of reply I don't want to see. That's an opinion which may or may not be corroborated later on.

 

Sorry :( I'm not much into the revenge business because it never seems to be worth it. Be the bigger man, man.

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Three months banishment to 9gag is something i would never wish upon anybody, not even my worst enemy.

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Shit, I had written "No hard feelings" somewhere before I rephrased. Point is, we can go back and forth about whether revenge is useful or not, but we're not going to get anywhere.

Matt: You want that eh? You want everything good for you. You want everything that's--falls off garbage can

Camera guy: Whoa, haha, are you okay dude?

Matt: You want anything funny that happens, don't you?

Camera guy: still laughing

Matt: You want the funny shit that happens here and there, you think it comes out of your [bleep]ing [wagon] pushes garbage can down, don't you? You think it's funny? It comes out of here! running towards Camera guy

Camera guy: runs away still laughing

Matt: You think the funny comes out of your mother[bleep]ing creativity? Comes out of Satan, mother[bleep]er! nn--ngh! pushes Camera guy down

Camera guy: Hoooholy [bleep]!

Matt: FUNNY ISN'T REAL! FUNNY ISN'T REAL!

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My experience has been that acting in anger does feel good while your angry, but the anger will fade with time. In one case, I even used my anger as a shield against my guilt, keeping myself angry about something long past the point it was reasonable, so that I could justify my actions to myself and not feel bad about them. I'm glad that I recently found a way to get past that, and to actually forgive myself so that I don't carry that anger and regret with me anymore (found a person actually, but that's a different story), because I thought that was something I was going to take to the grave with me.

 

But back to my point, either your left in a state where you have to be angry forever to justify whatever action you took in anger, such as seeking revenge, to yourself, or your going to go through a period of guilt once the anger passes, or can't be sustained. Your going to realize that what you did was silly/stupid/mean, and your going to wish, at least for a moment, that you had handled things differently.

 

I think that any action we take born of anger or frustration that has us thinking differently is something we will ultimately come to regret once we are able to resume or normal state of (more) rational thought. I believe this to be inevitable, because when we are angry we lose that rational thought, and so the choices we make will invariably differ from the ones we would normally make, and so we will disagree with them (ourselves) after the fact. This leaves you in a state where you are trying to rationalize what you did, and where you potentially feel bad about what you did. It's just not a good place to be in mentally.

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Like I said in our discussion in the relationship thread, revenge is apparently not clearly born from cloudy judgement. And again like I said, money is easier to quantify, but it's still remarkable.

Matt: You want that eh? You want everything good for you. You want everything that's--falls off garbage can

Camera guy: Whoa, haha, are you okay dude?

Matt: You want anything funny that happens, don't you?

Camera guy: still laughing

Matt: You want the funny shit that happens here and there, you think it comes out of your [bleep]ing [wagon] pushes garbage can down, don't you? You think it's funny? It comes out of here! running towards Camera guy

Camera guy: runs away still laughing

Matt: You think the funny comes out of your mother[bleep]ing creativity? Comes out of Satan, mother[bleep]er! nn--ngh! pushes Camera guy down

Camera guy: Hoooholy [bleep]!

Matt: FUNNY ISN'T REAL! FUNNY ISN'T REAL!

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Like I said in our discussion in the relationship thread, revenge is apparently not clearly born from cloudy judgement. And again like I said, money is easier to quantify, but it's still remarkable.

 

If people feel regret after revenge, then doesn't that suggest that their judgment was cloudy when they made the decision? Or is it just a matter of them not knowing any better?

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If people feel regret after revenge, then doesn't that suggest that their judgment was cloudy when they made the decision? Or is it just a matter of them not knowing any better?

I think revenge is the kind of thing that seems like the most logical thing you can possibly do, until you actually do it.

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I would disagree. Revenge is a result of anger, and anger most certainly can skew your judgement, as you'll know if you have ever been 'seeing red' before. People get mad enough that they take action without any thought at all (I've been that mad once). Now, you can't really plot revenge while your so angry that you've gone primal, but it's not like an on/off switch.

 

The trick for a study is to get people mad enough that they will act against their own best interests, and as an example I will give you a recent local news story.

 

Long story short, she cheated on him and he killed her with absolutely no plan for getting away with it, even going so far as to call a witness into the house (then trying to kill them).

 

But surely if you have ever been angry before you know that it skews your judgement, how much depending on how angry you are. Since revenge is something you do while angry, your judgement has to be off kilter. We know our emotions (all of them) influence the way we act.

 

Besides, skewed judgement doesn't mean you totally stop understanding the concept of money. Unless your so angry that you are acting totally without thinking, your not going to lose that concept entirely, though you might find the angrier you are the more money someone would spend on revenge, and they might be spending beyond their means if they are mad enough.

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I would disagree. Revenge is a result of anger, and anger most certainly can skew your judgement, as you'll know if you have ever been 'seeing red' before. People get mad enough that they take action without any thought at all (I've been that mad once).

 

I would also vouch to this from a personal experience probably from second grade. I was so mad at someone I actually flipped a table, and it wasn't one of those small tables. It was one of those used in science classrooms mostly.

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Three months banishment to 9gag is something i would never wish upon anybody, not even my worst enemy.

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I would disagree. Revenge is a result of anger, and anger most certainly can skew your judgement, as you'll know if you have ever been 'seeing red' before. People get mad enough that they take action without any thought at all (I've been that mad once).

 

I would also vouch to this from a personal experience probably from second grade. I was so mad at someone I actually flipped a table, and it wasn't one of those small tables. It was one of those used in science classrooms mostly.

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If people feel regret after revenge etc

Surely, but I don't know that's true. Wait and see.

 

I would disagree. Revenge is a result of anger, and anger most certainly can skew your judgement, as you'll know if you have ever been 'seeing red' before. People get mad enough that they take action without any thought at all (I've been that mad once). Now, you can't really plot revenge while your so angry that you've gone primal, but it's not like an on/off switch.

 

The trick for a study is to get people mad enough that they will act against their own best interests, and as an example I will give you a recent local news story.

 

Long story short, she cheated on him and he killed her with absolutely no plan for getting away with it, even going so far as to call a witness into the house (then trying to kill them).

 

But surely if you have ever been angry before you know that it skews your judgement, how much depending on how angry you are. Since revenge is something you do while angry, your judgement has to be off kilter. We know our emotions (all of them) influence the way we act.

 

Besides, skewed judgement doesn't mean you totally stop understanding the concept of money. Unless your so angry that you are acting totally without thinking, your not going to lose that concept entirely, though you might find the angrier you are the more money someone would spend on revenge, and they might be spending beyond their means if they are mad enough.

It's terribly difficult to say because I can't find the actual study anywhere, really. But is someone who is that angry motivated by pleasure? Is there only a difference of degree here?

Matt: You want that eh? You want everything good for you. You want everything that's--falls off garbage can

Camera guy: Whoa, haha, are you okay dude?

Matt: You want anything funny that happens, don't you?

Camera guy: still laughing

Matt: You want the funny shit that happens here and there, you think it comes out of your [bleep]ing [wagon] pushes garbage can down, don't you? You think it's funny? It comes out of here! running towards Camera guy

Camera guy: runs away still laughing

Matt: You think the funny comes out of your mother[bleep]ing creativity? Comes out of Satan, mother[bleep]er! nn--ngh! pushes Camera guy down

Camera guy: Hoooholy [bleep]!

Matt: FUNNY ISN'T REAL! FUNNY ISN'T REAL!

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Personally, I enjoy taking revenge upon people. I'm extremely territorial, and if someone messes up my stuff, they better be ready for their stuff to be messed up too. I rarely ever feel guilty for taking revenge, but when I do, it quickly passes. I don't know... I guess I feel that I want justice. However, taking what Randox said about that story, I never go into something without a plan. Ever. It is just bad business.

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That's interesting. Can you give us some examples?

Matt: You want that eh? You want everything good for you. You want everything that's--falls off garbage can

Camera guy: Whoa, haha, are you okay dude?

Matt: You want anything funny that happens, don't you?

Camera guy: still laughing

Matt: You want the funny shit that happens here and there, you think it comes out of your [bleep]ing [wagon] pushes garbage can down, don't you? You think it's funny? It comes out of here! running towards Camera guy

Camera guy: runs away still laughing

Matt: You think the funny comes out of your mother[bleep]ing creativity? Comes out of Satan, mother[bleep]er! nn--ngh! pushes Camera guy down

Camera guy: Hoooholy [bleep]!

Matt: FUNNY ISN'T REAL! FUNNY ISN'T REAL!

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In 8th grade, there was this guy that would always get a few friends and come to my locker after lunch and make fun of me while I was exchanging my stuff. One day he ducked under my arm and came up in front of me, directly between me and the locker (actually an impressive maneuver, in hindsight). I couldn't resist the opportunity, and slammed the door on his head. He put his hand to the side of his head and walked off while his friends laughed at him, and I felt pretty good.

 

We had the same class the next period, and, oddly enough, I did feel kind of bad. I asked him if he was alright without really being sure why, and when he said it wasn't bad, I immediately wondered why I'd asked. I no longer felt bad, and I still think he deserved it. I'm not sure what to make of this.

 

From a more objective standpoint, the concept of revenge doesn't really have a logical purpose. It feels really good and if you want to get back at someone that deserves it then more power to you, but overall it mostly just creates problems, especially depending on why it's done. For example, Jim is fired from his office for stealing supplies (maybe staplers go for big money on the black market), and is angry at his employer. The next day, he keys his boss's car. This kind of thing happens often, but it isn't justified at all.

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I've never really gotten revenge aside from in arguments. But when someone's being an ass to you and you're able to say something that completely shuts them up, it's a pretty freaking awesome feeling imo. Dunno if it really counts as revenge, but probably the closest to 'revenge' that I've ever taken.

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From a more objective standpoint, the concept of revenge doesn't really have a logical purpose.

Har! Beat me to it. This is why I never bother getting revenge, instead I just cut people out of my life for simplicity's sake. I've already done it to two people I really cared about at one point and countless others I never gave two shits about, so I got the hang of it.

 

The only actual acts of revenge I ever carried out were against my brother for petty reasons, such as he ate the last of the Oreos so I hid his popsicle sticks, ect.

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This thread got me thinking about the last time I got revenge on someone. And I just can't think of a time when I took revenge. I'm a pretty chill guy, and I hate arguments and fights, etc. I've never gotten into a physical fight with my friends, so I've never physically got revenge on any of them. I was never close to any girls, so one never hurt me in a way that I felt the need to hurt them back. Non-physical fights with my guy friends don't last more than 20 minutes, tbh. That's one of the great things about being a guy. A friend does something to piss you off, you call him out on it, argue for a bit, realize it's stupid, and then just go back to being friends.

 

In short, what I'm saying is that I can't think of a time when I ever got revenge on someone for something (aside from petty actions that you might classify as revenge, such as pushing my little brother over cause he hit me (stuff that happened when we were toddlers)). I guess it shows either 1) I feel revenge to be ultimately wrong or 2) I'm way too much of a people-pleaser/peace-keeper/laid-back type of dude to get into any situations where revenge is a possibility. Maybe it's a combination of the two, lol.

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From a more objective standpoint, the concept of revenge doesn't really have a logical purpose. It feels really good and if you want to get back at someone that deserves it then more power to you, but overall it mostly just creates problems, especially depending on why it's done. For example, Jim is fired from his office for stealing supplies (maybe staplers go for big money on the black market), and is angry at his employer. The next day, he keys his boss's car. This kind of thing happens often, but it isn't justified at all.

 

From the article I've been talking about:

 

Fehr and his colleagues suggest that the feeling of satisfaction people get from meting out altruistic punishment may be the glue that keeps societies together.

"Theory and experimental evidence shows that cooperation among strangers is greatly enhanced by altruistic punishment," Fehr said. "Cooperation among strangers breaks down in experiments if altruistic punishment is ruled out. Cooperation flourishes if punishment of defectors is possible."

 

Of course, no one keys their boss's car to strengthen social bond. I guess it's more of a "ruse of reason". Again, hard to say without the study on hand (this is Fehr referring to previous work, so I might have some luck finding it). The law seems to be a suitable replacement.

Matt: You want that eh? You want everything good for you. You want everything that's--falls off garbage can

Camera guy: Whoa, haha, are you okay dude?

Matt: You want anything funny that happens, don't you?

Camera guy: still laughing

Matt: You want the funny shit that happens here and there, you think it comes out of your [bleep]ing [wagon] pushes garbage can down, don't you? You think it's funny? It comes out of here! running towards Camera guy

Camera guy: runs away still laughing

Matt: You think the funny comes out of your mother[bleep]ing creativity? Comes out of Satan, mother[bleep]er! nn--ngh! pushes Camera guy down

Camera guy: Hoooholy [bleep]!

Matt: FUNNY ISN'T REAL! FUNNY ISN'T REAL!

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I'm like duff in my pacifism but, also like dizzle. The few times I have sought revenge on people it was rather petty, and if it wasn't I'd always try to fix whatever I messed up, or as if they're alright afterward. I like justified equality, so once an "equilibrium" of revenge[or shared pain] is achieved, I do my best to diffuse the conflict.

 

I've never done anything as serious as the article in my OP that was linked in this OP. I've heavily considered it numerous times, but I suppose just thinking about the consequences of my actions left me both emotionally satisfied, and a logical state of mind reminding me that what I would have done would have ended up punishing myself more than my victim in the end.

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One thing I've never understood about revenge is that one Shakespeare quote proverb: "Revenge is a dish best eaten cold."

 

It seems to me that the longer you wait to take revenge the stupider it seems, to you, the person you're taking revenge on, and the people watching. If you're going to take revenge, it makes more sense to do it before your anger dies down and everyone forgets what you're taking revenge for.

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First of all, it's not a Shakespeare quote. Second, the idea was originally that if you want revenge, you should wait so that your judgement is not clouded when you right the balance. Finally, a revenge long feared or one which strikes unexpectedly is more painful according to some interpretations of the proverb.

Matt: You want that eh? You want everything good for you. You want everything that's--falls off garbage can

Camera guy: Whoa, haha, are you okay dude?

Matt: You want anything funny that happens, don't you?

Camera guy: still laughing

Matt: You want the funny shit that happens here and there, you think it comes out of your [bleep]ing [wagon] pushes garbage can down, don't you? You think it's funny? It comes out of here! running towards Camera guy

Camera guy: runs away still laughing

Matt: You think the funny comes out of your mother[bleep]ing creativity? Comes out of Satan, mother[bleep]er! nn--ngh! pushes Camera guy down

Camera guy: Hoooholy [bleep]!

Matt: FUNNY ISN'T REAL! FUNNY ISN'T REAL!

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First of all, it's not a Shakespeare quote.

After a quick google search, you are correct. I've had that wrong for a long time, wow. Sorry about that. :3

 

Second, the idea was originally that if you want revenge, you should wait so that your judgement is not clouded when you right the balance.

I agree with that sentiment, however to me judgement not being clouded involves not being angry or emotional. You take into account what your emotions say, but you don't make your decision based on those emotions. And if you're not angry or emotional about whatever the slight was, then taking revenge feels pointless and petty.

 

Finally, a revenge long feared or one which strikes unexpectedly is more painful according to some interpretations of the proverb.

This, however, I disagree with. If, for example, I had beat the crap out of a classmate as a freshman, and he came back today, three months after graduation, and started beating me up, it would seem stupid. I wouldn't expect it, but my offense would be so long in the past that it would seem like it didn't matter, if I even remembered it at all.

My skin is finally getting soft
I'll scrub until the damn thing comes off

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