Jump to content

Well Known RWT'rs banned.


Fallstar

Recommended Posts

But if the crime example is flawed to the point where it illustrates a completely different scenario, it's no better than what you're using instead. Using a crime based analogy puts Jagex as the party inflicting whatever action on the people: rape, theft, murder, arson, whatever. It doesn't make sense. It's a bad analogy for the situation let alone the fact that citing laws and possible violation of them wasn't even an analogy to begin with.

 

They aren't stealing, but they are taking advantage of people who cannot control themselves otherwise and profiting off it. Sort of why dueling is also looked down upon, but at least there a but of skill comes into effect.

 

Could you explain further? Because as it stands I don't understand what you're trying to say in the least.

hzvjpwS.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was responding to the people who were saying that people who RWT are like those in prison; they blame the law, not themselves.

 

That is not the case, as the law is universal (near enough) to the country: the people who make the law can't steal, kill or rape any more than an ordinary citizen.

 

Whereas in Runescape, the people who make the rules CAN and DO break their rules. They are allowed to RWT to their heart's content. But the players can't. That's why the prison analogy was inaccurate.

  • Like 1

Asmodean <3

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What is real-world trading?

 

Real-world trading is the term used for activities which occur outside of the game environment which result in the real-world sale or purchase of items, gp or services with the intention of supplying or advancing a Jagex in-game character other than by the means which are incorporated into the game.

 

This includes, but is not limited to: purchasing gold or items for RuneScape on 3rd party websites, buying a RuneScape account on 3rd party websites, paying someone to increase your account's experience (XP) and paying someone to complete quests and activities on your behalf.

This is Jagex's definition of RWT.

 

I.E. those guys RWT'd, Jagex doesn't.

6Ij0n.jpg

In real life MMO you don't get 99 smithing by making endless bronze daggers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Could you explain further? Because as it stands I don't understand what you're trying to say in the least.

 

I edited my post quite a bit, sorry for the confusion.

 

Don't look at this as simply profit/loss or just monetary. Look at it from a more humanitarian standpoint. The people who play these games usually do not realize when to quit. Instead of doing something worthwhile with their money, they are slowly giving it to someone.

 

The odds are slightly against them. Even in dice duels, the host makes a cut. You are losing money in the long run. But, these people can't control themselves.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What is real-world trading?

 

Real-world trading is the term used for activities which occur outside of the game environment which result in the real-world sale or purchase of items, gp or services with the intention of supplying or advancing a Jagex in-game character other than by the means which are incorporated into the game.

 

This includes, but is not limited to: purchasing gold or items for RuneScape on 3rd party websites, buying a RuneScape account on 3rd party websites, paying someone to increase your account's experience (XP) and paying someone to complete quests and activities on your behalf.

This is Jagex's definition of RWT.

 

I.E. those guys RWT'd, Jagex doesn't.

 

Oh come on. That's the new, post SOFscape definition.

 

Are you honestly going to tell me that buying spins for 1M Agility xp/hr isn't RWT? That people can now buy spins, stock up on recharge gems and get a permanent 1.5X or 2X xp modifier isn't RWT?

 

These are huge in game advantages that require the player to purchase them with real money. Who cares if it isn't 'officially' RWT, when it is blatantly obvious to anyone who's played the game for a few days that it is?

  • Like 1

Asmodean <3

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

What is real-world trading?

 

Real-world trading is the term used for activities which occur outside of the game environment which result in the real-world sale or purchase of items, gp or services with the intention of supplying or advancing a Jagex in-game character other than by the means which are incorporated into the game.

 

This includes, but is not limited to: purchasing gold or items for RuneScape on 3rd party websites, buying a RuneScape account on 3rd party websites, paying someone to increase your account's experience (XP) and paying someone to complete quests and activities on your behalf.

This is Jagex's definition of RWT.

 

I.E. those guys RWT'd, Jagex doesn't.

 

 

Oh come on. That's the new, post SOFscape definition.

 

Are you honestly going to tell me that buying spins for 1M Agility xp/hr isn't RWT? That people can now buy spins, stock up on recharge gems and get a permanent 1.5X or 2X xp modifier isn't RWT?

 

These are huge in game advantages that require the player to purchase them with real money. Who cares if it isn't 'officially' RWT, when it is blatantly obvious to anyone who's played the game for a few days that it is?

 

The difference is where the money is going. At least Jagex can do stuff with the money, like get more servers or hire more people, or use it to pay the people they already have. Or they might pocket it, but those previous possibilities are still there, and there is no proof they don't do anything with it.

 

People who RWT can't and don't do that. There is a 100% chance of them pocketing the money.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, the money clearly went into new servers. BXP was a pleasant experience wasn't it?

 

In fact, the quality of updates since the RWT tab was released has been outstanding, wouldn't you say?

 

Even if the above wasn't sarcasm, I wouldn't have sacrificed one of the key ideas Runescape was built on - that players wealth and status in real life should not have an impact on their wealth and status in game - for that.

Asmodean <3

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, the money clearly went into new servers. BXP was a pleasant experience wasn't it?

 

In fact, the quality of updates since the RWT tab was released has been outstanding, wouldn't you say?

 

Even if the above wasn't sarcasm, I wouldn't have sacrificed one of the key ideas Runescape was built on - that players wealth and status in real life should not have an impact on their wealth and status in game - for that.

 

How about you stop being cynical and think for a second?

 

Let's say I wanted to spend money on RWT. Would I rather give it to some random guy who will probably buy a new computer or video games with it, or would I rather give it to some random guy who has the opportunity to use it to directly change something in the game? The opportunity to use the money to fund something game related is greater than 0% chance of using it.

 

We don't know what jagex is doing with the money, but I highly doubt all of it is being used for personal gain.

 

And although the whole wealth != advantage rule is gone, there was no stopping anyone from rwt before SoF. You could pay people to train on your account for you, for example. Or buy gold.

Edited by Kimberly
Please stay on topic
Link to comment
Share on other sites

He did not explicitly state that they have gone towards those things, just that they had the ability to be. We have been told that they're now investing in better infrastructure following BXPW. We have been told that they were saving the funds to ensure Runescape's longevity. These are the only real "facts" we have on the situation, which is really unfortunate because maybe if more facts were in circulation we would have less need for wild speculation about their business health.

 

As for the quality of updates, like if we're talking technical quality? They're about the same as they were when RWT was disallowed in game and privately. Still the same glitch-ridden product. I am not entirely sure how this is a justification of RWT'ing so maybe you could clarify.

 

As for giving up the integrity of the game, well, I think this is something we all agree with. But they have done it and there's nothing we can do about it. We can send in our letters, we can be as eloquent as we please, but this is the direction they're taking. They're following in the footsteps of the rest of the gaming industry in order to survive and they don't really care for us older players who are, to them, "stuck in our ways."

 

I understand that instead of staying or leaving, there's a "third option" -- RWT. But even still, I wouldn't. That's just my personal decision. I don't throw shit on my floor just because the host has at their own party. I don't have to help with the clean-up, but I don't have to make the task any harder for when they do.

  • Like 1

hzvjpwS.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, the money clearly went into new servers. BXP was a pleasant experience wasn't it?

 

In fact, the quality of updates since the RWT tab was released has been outstanding, wouldn't you say?

 

Even if the above wasn't sarcasm, I wouldn't have sacrificed one of the key ideas Runescape was built on - that players wealth and status in real life should not have an impact on their wealth and status in game - for that.

 

Ignoring the blatent "RIP Old RS" theme of this post, the fact of the matter is times have changed. The game isn't owned by the people it was originally run by, and with changes in leadership comes changes in philosophies. Simple.

 

The constant rehash of this argument seems to live on the notion that Jagex are the only people who have ever sold out, which in itself is comedic at best.

 

[bleep] OFF HOW ARE U SO [bleep]ING LUCKY U PIECE OF [bleep]ING SHIT [bleep] [bleep] [wagon] MUNCHER

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, the money clearly went into new servers. BXP was a pleasant experience wasn't it?

 

In fact, the quality of updates since the RWT tab was released has been outstanding, wouldn't you say?

 

Even if the above wasn't sarcasm, I wouldn't have sacrificed one of the key ideas Runescape was built on - that players wealth and status in real life should not have an impact on their wealth and status in game - for that.

 

Ignoring the blatent "RIP Old RS" theme of this post, the fact of the matter is times have changed. The game isn't owned by the people it was originally run by, and with changes in leadership comes changes in philosophies. Simple.

 

The constant rehash of this argument seems to live on the notion that Jagex are the only people who have ever sold out, which in itself is comedic at best.

 

They aren't the only people who've ever sold out. But if it's OK for Jagex to sell out, why not the players? If they're going to embrace RWT, why are the players banned from doing it?

Asmodean <3

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, the money clearly went into new servers. BXP was a pleasant experience wasn't it?

 

In fact, the quality of updates since the RWT tab was released has been outstanding, wouldn't you say?

 

Even if the above wasn't sarcasm, I wouldn't have sacrificed one of the key ideas Runescape was built on - that players wealth and status in real life should not have an impact on their wealth and status in game - for that.

 

Ignoring the blatent "RIP Old RS" theme of this post, the fact of the matter is times have changed. The game isn't owned by the people it was originally run by, and with changes in leadership comes changes in philosophies. Simple.

 

The constant rehash of this argument seems to live on the notion that Jagex are the only people who have ever sold out, which in itself is comedic at best.

 

They aren't the only people who've ever sold out. But if it's OK for Jagex to sell out, why not the players? If they're going to embrace RWT, why are the players banned from doing it?

 

Bottom line: Jagex has the opportunity to at least do something with the money gained from their RWT, as opposed to private RWT where there is no opportunity.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, the money clearly went into new servers. BXP was a pleasant experience wasn't it?

 

In fact, the quality of updates since the RWT tab was released has been outstanding, wouldn't you say?

 

Even if the above wasn't sarcasm, I wouldn't have sacrificed one of the key ideas Runescape was built on - that players wealth and status in real life should not have an impact on their wealth and status in game - for that.

 

How about you stop being cynical and think for a second?

 

Let's say I wanted to spend money on RWT. Would I rather give it to some random guy who will probably buy a new computer or video games with it, or would I rather give it to some random guy who has the opportunity to use it to directly change something in the game? The opportunity to use the money to fund something game related is greater than 0% chance of using it.

 

We don't know what jagex is doing with the money, but I highly doubt all of it is being used for personal gain.

 

And although the whole wealth != advantage rule is gone, there was no stopping anyone from rwt before SoF. You could pay people to train on your account for you, for example. Or buy gold.

 

I agree with you. Players who RWT do so purely for their own benefit IRL. There is a chance that Jagex might put some of their profits back into the game, although we haven't see that happen yet.

 

My problem is that 'legitimate' RWT exists in the first place, and why Jagex are allowed to do it, but not players.

Asmodean <3

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Yes, the money clearly went into new servers. BXP was a pleasant experience wasn't it?

 

In fact, the quality of updates since the RWT tab was released has been outstanding, wouldn't you say?

 

Even if the above wasn't sarcasm, I wouldn't have sacrificed one of the key ideas Runescape was built on - that players wealth and status in real life should not have an impact on their wealth and status in game - for that.

 

How about you stop being cynical and think for a second?

 

Let's say I wanted to spend money on RWT. Would I rather give it to some random guy who will probably buy a new computer or video games with it, or would I rather give it to some random guy who has the opportunity to use it to directly change something in the game? The opportunity to use the money to fund something game related is greater than 0% chance of using it.

 

We don't know what jagex is doing with the money, but I highly doubt all of it is being used for personal gain.

 

And although the whole wealth != advantage rule is gone, there was no stopping anyone from rwt before SoF. You could pay people to train on your account for you, for example. Or buy gold.

 

 

I agree with you. Players who RWT do so purely for their own benefit IRL. There is a chance that Jagex might put some of their profits back into the game, although we haven't see that happen yet.

 

My problem is that 'legitimate' RWT exists in the first place, and why Jagex are allowed to do it, but not players.

 

You said we haven't seen it used yet. Have you seen the graphics, or heard the music? Absolutely stunning, and completely different from past years. You have to pay people for that. Though the behind the scenes videos only shows like 1 designer, there are a lot of people working to make those a reality that don't ever get credited. Also, it takes as much as 1 year to see updates come out. SoF RWT was released less than a year ago. Runescape is moving off of Java and onto another platform. I wonder where the money is coming from.

 

Also why does Jagex RWT? A few reasons, one of which I mentioned in my previous post. Another reason? It's their game. Many MMOs are doing it now, it's not exactly Jagex's own idea. Doesn't mean you have to accept or like it, but I would rather have that than RWT from dicers or botters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My problem is that 'legitimate' RWT exists in the first place, and why Jagex are allowed to do it, but not players.

 

They own it. Players dont

  • Like 1
 

[bleep] OFF HOW ARE U SO [bleep]ING LUCKY U PIECE OF [bleep]ING SHIT [bleep] [bleep] [wagon] MUNCHER

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not sure if we were disputing that the SoF is a form of Real-World Trading, though. I think the issue exists more with people who use Runescape's inevitable change as an excuse for their decision without applying any more thought to the issue. A person who says "I don't care about <thing>" versus "I think the people in charge of <thing> did <something I disagree with>" are very different things. One absolves them of responsibility for their actions, one owns up to it. We can argue morality all day long...but integrity. No one really says anything about integrity anymore.

 

Integrity is owning up to your actions and being accountable. Some people might view Jagex as lacking integrity in their practices. But to then use that as an excuse to shed your own personal integrity, to shift blame all onto them and take no responsibility for your actions?

 

That's why I can't understand why these people who get banned make these farewell videos. That's why I think their actions were stupid and their reasoning behind them even more so. They'd rather lie than simply state the truth: they just wanted the money and that's that. Instead they turn it into a crusade. I don't think they are pathetic people, but if I had to judge them based on one act -- this act and how they've responded to it -- I would.

  • Like 1

hzvjpwS.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you didn't like it, and a combination of updates resulted in you considering quitting, would you quit with around £25K worth of gold on your account, or would you sell it, seeing as the game has lost all integrity already. If you aren't in that situation, or are wealthy irl, it's easy to take the moral high ground. But try putting yourself in someone else's shoes.

 

I would honestly like to know who here would give up £25k because they believe RWT is wrong.

Asmodean <3

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I fail to see how that is relevant to the fact that they aren't claiming responsibility for their actions. I'm not saying they should crucify themselves, whip themselves, cry "OH LAWD I'LL NEVER RWT AGAIN!" But simply saying, "Yeah, I RWT'd because it was good cash." without going "omg dead runescape jagex killing the game 2012 rip rip rip" conveys a world of difference. I have no respect for the decisions made by those who preach the latter over the former.

hzvjpwS.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They don't deny that it's their fault, they merely point out that they aren't provided with any evidence.

 

As for Starry, the gold he had on his account was worth a 6 figure sum. Even if I believed it was morally wrong to sell gp, I'd probably still do it for that amount. Who wouldn't?

  • Like 1

Asmodean <3

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That entire Starrychelx video is a platform for martyrdom and condemns Jagex without any acknowledgement. "I don't want to go into any detail as to why I'm quitting, but nevermind that the entire intro of the video makes it sound as if I was quitting because of Jagex and not because I couldn't be bothered to create another account to continue RWT'ing."

 

Instead he blames Jagex for bringing in microtransactions as a means of turning players to RWT which is honestly completely incorrect since RWT existed far before MT was a glint in someone's eye on the board of directors. This is a use of misdirection and deceit to lessen his own personal choice in the matter. He doesn't take the time to say, "I made x, y, and z choices because of a, b, and c reasons and I have no regrets."

 

There is a massive difference here and no matter if you agree with the disapproval he displayed with MT's, his deception should be absolutely clear and deplorable to those who follow him.

 

If I could give any future banned RWT'ers any advice, it would be to bow out with some grace and a shred of your integrity left. Or better yet? Say nothing. Returning quietly on an alt has more significance and power in your actions if you just can't help turning it into a crusade against Jagex. Flailing your arms and crying wolf just lessens your credibility and your argument in the eyes of those you're trying to sway.

 

E: Sorry for the multiple edits.

hzvjpwS.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you actually knew the guy, you would know that he is a massive Castle Wars fanatic. Before he got into gambling, that's pretty much all he did. Real castle wars too, not afking thousands of games like the cape hunters do nowadays.

 

Also, take a loot at all the RSMVs he made years ago. Does that strike you as someone who doesn't care about the game? He obviously did. He was planning on quitting before he got banned, and yes it was because of Jagex, because of what they've done to the game. So it comes down to that point again: if you're going to quit, do you ignore the fact you can earn tens or even hundreds of thousands of pounds, or do you sell out.

 

You assume he quit because he couldn't be bothered to create another account to RWT on. That is a baseless assumption, and is entirely incorrect.

Asmodean <3

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whether or not a person was in love with the game or hated it from the start has no bearing on the fact that their choices are their own. By passing the buck onto Jagex, as Starrychelx clearly did in the video, lessens any responsibility for himself. This is false. Whether or not people can sympathize with him on his dislike for Jagex or the position he found himself in when he no longer wanted to play is completely irrelevant to how he handled himself in his "farewell video." The assumption that he did not want to create another account to RWT is only relevant when we consider his reasons for RWT'ing in the first place -- this is where your "if you had 25k would you RWT it or not" comes into play.

 

There are things that may influence your decision. You pointed out, wealth gained with no risk, is a huge influence. Dissatisfaction with the game can also be one. Real-life need is another. These things might be the reasons behind a person's choice to RWT. But if you are saying "I only did this because Jagex has no right to take action against us when they do it too," you are avoiding any and all personal responsibility in your choice. At that point you are convincing whoever will listen that you did this because you had no choice in it, or the choice you made was "for the greater good."

 

I can understand wanting to quit because you no longer had an interest in the game because of the direction the company took. I can even understand selling your wealth if you're leaving the game. Yet beyond that, your choice to RWT is no longer influenced by Jagex. His video condemns the supposed hypocracy of Jagex banning players for RWT'ing when they have Micro-transactions. As a result, the message his video is sending (whether he intended it or not) is that it's Jagex's fault players are RWT'ing and that the consequences from those actions are unfair or unjustified.

 

You sound as if you know him personally, and I am sure that he is a better man than what he's portraying himself to be. As I said in earlier posts, I do not know him and I only have videos like this to go on. Unfortunately, the message he's shown here probably does him a great injustice, because it makes him look like just another ROW ROW FIGHT DA POWER rwt'er. Maybe he has a lot of integrity but just didn't realize how he came across. I'm simply explaining why, based on that video, it looks like he lacks integrity and how this is what many RWT'ers do to escape the responsibility of their actions and the consequences of those actions.

 

The devil is in the details.

  • Like 1

hzvjpwS.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whether or not a person was in love with the game or hated it from the start has no bearing on the fact that their choices are their own. By passing the buck onto Jagex, as Starrychelx clearly did in the video, lessens any responsibility for himself. This is false. Whether or not people can sympathize with him on his dislike for Jagex or the position he found himself in when he no longer wanted to play is completely irrelevant to how he handled himself in his "farewell video." The assumption that he did not want to create another account to RWT is only relevant when we consider his reasons for RWT'ing in the first place -- this is where your "if you had 25k would you RWT it or not" comes into play.

 

There are things that may influence your decision. You pointed out, wealth gained with no risk, is a huge influence. Dissatisfaction with the game can also be one. Real-life need is another. These things might be the reasons behind a person's choice to RWT. But if you are saying "I only did this because Jagex has no right to take action against us when they do it too," you are avoiding any and all personal responsibility in your choice. At that point you are convincing whoever will listen that you did this because you had no choice in it, or the choice you made was "for the greater good."

 

I can understand wanting to quit because you no longer had an interest in the game because of the direction the company took. I can even understand selling your wealth if you're leaving the game. Yet beyond that, your choice to RWT is no longer influenced by Jagex. His video condemns the supposed hypocracy of Jagex banning players for RWT'ing when they have Micro-transactions. As a result, the message his video is sending (whether he intended it or not) is that it's Jagex's fault players are RWT'ing and that the consequences from those actions are unfair or unjustified.

 

*raises hand*

 

Ok - I'm confused ...

 

 

Has there been declared “legitimate” excuses for RWT’ing, now? :unsure:

nyuseg.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Throughout his video I was just thinking, well at least you still have decades worth of normal working people's earnings, tax free, to comfort your loss with.

 

I am amazed these people are not caught for tax avoidance (I know this has been discussed loads of times).

Check it out, huge amount of effort has gone into this massive mod!

ODG6e0M.png

[hide=old sig]

newsig.png

[/hide]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.