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Jagex: Thinking of Gambling Alternatives?


RU_Insane

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I'm sorry... I don't have much else besides a screenshot from friends chat. Mod Mark in Chinch00ters FC discussing the gambling problem.

 

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Transcript in case the image doesn't load:

 

Mod Mark: Sorry my list is for admin only

Mod Mark: I'm trying to design some dicing alternatives right now

Mod Mark: Obviously the desire to gamble in game is there

Mod Mark: But certainly the dicing issue has gotten out of control

 

It seems like fairly new information, so forgive me if this is a repost.

 

There's been some hub-bub that these alternatives could be introduced as in-game money sinks in response to the recent money dupe glitch, and others that introduced huge amounts of cash into the economy. It seems reasonable to do so. Quite a compromise between inflation and reckless gambling of fortunes. You think Jagex will try to revive Burthorpe games room with a casino-type deal? Seems likely.

 

Thoughts? :-k

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The only thought I have about this is something about morals...but that has been defenestrated by now.

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The only thought I have about this is something about morals...but that has been defenestrated by now.

 

Yeah.

 

I think Jagex will take the opportunity to excessively monetize this update, if it comes. -.- On the one hand, you create an effective money sink, and scamming is reduced. On the other, you legitimize gambling and commodify it beyond purpose.

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At what point does it become illegal (or at least classified as gambling) under certain laws?

 

I'm not really sure if it's a good idea to feed online gambling desires, either. Whatever they do will hopefully replace dicing or h/c as a "safer" alternative, but replacing one thing with another thing doesn't really tackle the root of the problem.

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At what point does it become illegal (or at least classified as gambling) under certain laws?

 

I'm not really sure if it's a good idea to feed online gambling desires, either. Whatever they do will hopefully replace dicing or h/c as a "safer" alternative, but replacing one thing with another thing doesn't really tackle the root of the problem.

 

Not to mention players could still RWT with the money they won. Not as much incentive, but it's not totally hampered.

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Runescape gold isn't a tangible good, so gambling laws wouldn't apply. If they banned leading gambling RWT'rs only to introduce RWT through their own gambling system I'll laugh.

Remember "We aren't selling xp because the SoF is random"? That could just as easily apply to a new gambling system and selling gold.

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At what point does it become illegal (or at least classified as gambling) under certain laws?

 

I'm not really sure if it's a good idea to feed online gambling desires, either. Whatever they do will hopefully replace dicing or h/c as a "safer" alternative, but replacing one thing with another thing doesn't really tackle the root of the problem.

 

Not to mention players could still RWT with the money they won. Not as much incentive, but it's not totally hampered.

 

But if the "house" was Jagex, then the GP could just disappear. This means that you can't RWT the "wins" since they are set against you so the house always wins in the long run. This creates a very useful sink, and de-legitmizes regular dicing equivalents as we have now since you know that you won't be normal-scammed, but only math-scammed.

 

I prefer this approach to keeping dicing/gambling as it is now

 

 

As long as it performs the function of the host, (takes money in, spins a lucky number and sometimes spits money out) that would be fine. If it costs RL money, or wasn't a gp-sink that is a problem.

 

Let's hope for the former.

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At what point does it become illegal (or at least classified as gambling) under certain laws?

 

I'm not really sure if it's a good idea to feed online gambling desires, either. Whatever they do will hopefully replace dicing or h/c as a "safer" alternative, but replacing one thing with another thing doesn't really tackle the root of the problem.

 

Not to mention players could still RWT with the money they won. Not as much incentive, but it's not totally hampered.

 

But if the "house" was Jagex, then the GP could just disappear. This means that you can't RWT the "wins" since they are set against you so the house always wins in the long run. This creates a very useful sink, and de-legitmizes regular dicing equivalents as we have now since you know that you won't be normal-scammed, but only math-scammed.

 

I prefer this approach to keeping dicing/gambling as it is now

 

 

As long as it performs the function of the host, (takes money in, spins a lucky number and sometimes spits money out) that would be fine. If it costs RL money, or wasn't a gp-sink that is a problem.

 

Let's hope for the former.

 

Good point. The pros (what's apparent, at least) outweigh the cons. Minus the moral/ethical issue of legitimizing gambling, of course. Then again, we also have SOF.

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Runescape gold isn't a tangible good, so gambling laws wouldn't apply. If they banned leading gambling RWT'rs only to introduce RWT through their own gambling system I'll laugh.

Remember "We aren't selling xp because the SoF is random"? That could just as easily apply to a new gambling system and selling gold.

 

Even more, remember "Squeal isn't gambling because you always win something?"

 

So if I set up a nickel-operated slot machine and guaranteed that the lowest you could receive was one penny, I wouldn't be regulated by gambling laws? I'm amazed that Jagex figured this out but casinos are still in the dark!

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Runescape gold isn't a tangible good, so gambling laws wouldn't apply. If they banned leading gambling RWT'rs only to introduce RWT through their own gambling system I'll laugh.

Remember "We aren't selling xp because the SoF is random"? That could just as easily apply to a new gambling system and selling gold.

 

Even more, remember "Squeal isn't gambling because you always win something?"

 

So if I set up a nickel-operated slot machine and guaranteed that the lowest you could receive was one penny, I wouldn't be regulated by gambling laws? I'm amazed that Jagex figured this out but casinos are still in the dark!

 

What's even funnier is that Jagex flat out contradicted themselves anyway by monetizing SOF. If they say it's not gambling, they certainly treat it as much by selling chances to win coveted prizes, knowing full well that users spin the wheel in the imaginary pursuit of future wealth, and that any result short of this is emphatically regarded as a loss. Actions speak louder than words. The wheel serves the same function as a casino would, keeping in mind the incentives to spin in the first place.

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It's not gambling because virtual items are not considered to be worht anything, that's it. There have been a few court rulings pointing into a different direction, but as of now, courts will not recognize them to have any value unless maybe under very specific circumstances. I checked the gambling laws of germany and it's pretty clear here that if items were considered to be a monetary win, the SoF would fall under gambling laws. I expect the situation is similar in other countries.

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Nothing IVPex does surprises me anymore...

 

People were begging for a legal alternative to dicing before IVP became the hot-button topic of the year.

 

I'm very happy that they're seeking to control it. I hope they can think of an elegant solution that removes the risk of scamming. They waited far too long to root it out entirely. EDIT: Oh that gives me an idea for an image...

 

TOYx4.jpg

 

inb4 inafter "lol but the sof is already gambling" "lol jagex doesn't care" "lol"

 

EDIT: My inb4 was very late.

Edited by Kimberly
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There is already gambling in rs but not directly in the form of gp. One of the barbarian assault reward is the possibility of gambling points for a reward. I know in this case you have to go to the trouble of playing the minigame and everything. But the word gambling is there so dicing would not be moral issue for them.

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There is already gambling in rs but not directly in the form of gp. One of the barbarian assault reward is the possibility of gambling points for a reward. I know in this case you have to go to the trouble of playing the minigame and everything. But the word gambling is there so dicing would not be moral issue for them.

From what little I've read on the subject, gambling is the driving force behind keeping people subbed. You get them hooked on easy level ups and near instant gratification at the beginning, then roll out the random drop tables and long term goals. In this sense every new monster is essentially a roulette wheel with new prizes which players will feverishly spin in the hopes of winning big and reaching their next goal. It really is a brilliant plan, but unfortunately blurs the line between gambling and gaming (mostly mmo) addiction.

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I just can't wait. :roll:

 

They can just create another SOF wheel that only uses in-game cash to buy tokens, then you have a chance of winning other cash prizes. That is a simple alternative, as much as I hate even the notion of gambling within RS.

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About time. Gambling is here, its not going anyplace. That ship sailed a very long time ago and its never coming back. While I can't say I have much in the way of sympathy for those foolish enough to throw away all their money, possibly getting scammed in the process, it bugs me that other people get to profit off of it. I would much rather see that money funneled right out of the game, or at least away from those who would sell it for real money.

 

The other thing I have come to decide upon, is better to realize you have a gambling problem in a virtual world where the consequences of an addiction are quite minor compared to figuring out you have a problem when you've spent your retirement savings and the months mortgage payment at the casino downtown. The hope being that some people will figure out they have a problem and do something about it, or at least try to contain it to the game and out of the casino where you can blow a lot more money much faster.

 

I also think it would be interesting to study something here, to see if gambling at an early age has any impact on whether you develop a gambling issue or not. I'm assuming it works more like being an alcoholic (which is a genetic predisposition), since both types of addictions would rely on a particular brain structure that has a higher reward for certain activities than the average 'normal' person. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that there probably aren't any studies on the impacts of gambling in your youth done yet (and if there are I would love to see some). Maybe we'll find out that we we're absolutely insane to allow this sort of thing, maybe we'll find out it makes no difference.

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I also think it would be interesting to study something here, to see if gambling at an early age has any impact on whether you develop a gambling issue or not. I'm assuming it works more like being an alcoholic (which is a genetic predisposition), since both types of addictions would rely on a particular brain structure that has a higher reward for certain activities than the average 'normal' person. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that there probably aren't any studies on the impacts of gambling in your youth done yet (and if there are I would love to see some). Maybe we'll find out that we we're absolutely insane to allow this sort of thing, maybe we'll find out it makes no difference.

 

Interesting hypothesis. I wonder how one progresses from a normal person to an addict when they should have been discouraged from gambling long ago, considering the odds were always against them. Can they just not weigh risks as well? Perhaps certain psychological/neurological types have a higher propensity to risk-taking than others.

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I also think it would be interesting to study something here, to see if gambling at an early age has any impact on whether you develop a gambling issue or not. I'm assuming it works more like being an alcoholic (which is a genetic predisposition), since both types of addictions would rely on a particular brain structure that has a higher reward for certain activities than the average 'normal' person. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that there probably aren't any studies on the impacts of gambling in your youth done yet (and if there are I would love to see some). Maybe we'll find out that we we're absolutely insane to allow this sort of thing, maybe we'll find out it makes no difference.

 

Interesting hypothesis. I wonder how one progresses from a normal person to an addict when they should have been discouraged from gambling long ago, considering the odds were always against them. Can they just not weigh risks as well? Perhaps certain psychological/neurological types have a higher propensity to risk-taking than others.

If I recall correctly from an econ book I read there's a risk vs. reward curve this is different for everyone, which means that different people with the same amount of knowledge of the possibilities will make different decisions. I'm really hoping that they allow JaGeX to play the house, it would really solve a lot of inflation issues. I could even see gambling slayer drops for something else to drive things like whips and d bows back up in price a little and make slayer a bit more profitable.

 

EDIT: The book in question was called Hiden Order in case anyone's interested, I give it credit for boosting my AP Microecon score from a 4 to a 5.

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Yeah, my 'joy' at seeing this (for lack of a better word) is contingent on Jagex playing house. If not it's sort of a 'why bother' situation.

 

And the personal curve thing sounds right for gambling (since it sort of looks like I was trying to imply the same mechanisim is at work for other addictions, when I meant I believe it is a nature thing, as opposed to nurture).

 

 

I still think it would be interesting to study it using players as guinea pigs, since we might find out there is a nurture component after all, which could potentially be used to help people avoid gambling addiction in the first place.

 

 

In any case, I sincerely hope that this will ruin, or at least diminish, the current forms of gambling we have right now, and if we are lucky, it might drive up the price of rsgp by lowering what I suspect is a fairly substantial supply.

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At what point does it become illegal (or at least classified as gambling) under certain laws?

 

I'm not really sure if it's a good idea to feed online gambling desires, either. Whatever they do will hopefully replace dicing or h/c as a "safer" alternative, but replacing one thing with another thing doesn't really tackle the root of the problem.

 

As far as I know, as long as Jagex isn't providing a way to buy currency to gamble with or anything like that, there's no way they can be attacked. One of the funniest pics I've seen in a while, though. I wouldn't mind a casino in Rs.

 

Edit: Whoever posted something about using items to gamble with and slayer being profitable again is a genius.

 

 

I BEG JAGEX TO PLS PLS DO THIS UPDATE. It almost overthrows my hatred for EoC.

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Even if Jagex plays the house, gambling in runescape will only increase bots and rwt. The house edge on dicing games was close to 20%, not including the fact that the host could scam. The edge on the rest of the games also fall within that realm.

 

Even if Jagex introduced a game with a similiar edge where they served as host, it will only create one more facet of gambling within the game. What drives RWT? The need for GP from the players. What kinds of players need the most gp? Stakers and gamblers. Everything else in runescape can be achieved with a couple hundred million...

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