01 Sept, 2012 - Behind the Scenes September

[Quyneax]

[hide]

If you need to be a high level to do it, then it's high level content, not mid level. If you're a mid level and want to do high level content, then go train like the high levels did.

Except it's "high level" because it was made 5 years ago when the amount of maxed players was a fraction of what it is today, not because it's challenging. There's a difference between outdated and difficult.

How does it matter that it's not challenging? You need to be a high level to do it effectively. So just train you stats like everything else. Stop feeling entitled.

But mid level players can do it just fine if they didn't have to out-compete high level players. That's the issue. High level players have the ability to lock mid level players out (instead of simply doing higher level content like nex etc)

Yeah, exactly. Mid levels can't do the stuff higher level players can do because their stats aren't good enough. The solution is to train.

In my opinion it is poor game design that the high levels can so effectively exclude other players. Competition is important in an mmo, but I think the current status of the GWD is poor. I am not sure what the correct system is, except that it should allow mid levels to have some chance.

[/hide]

GWD is high-level content because of the competition with other players, as well as the current prices of the drops. Right now, you need max stats to pull even a modest gp/hr (compared to Kiln, QBD etc.).

 

If the drops were more expensive (with the same competition), lower-levelled players would be able to make a decent amount of money there even with their much lower kph.

If the competition was less (with the same price), lower-levelled players would be able to get higher kph and make a decent amount.

 

Of course, increasing price increases competition and reduced competition reduces price, if the drop rate stays the same. So the above scenarios are simply not realistic.

 

I think it's better to keep GWD the way it was designed, basically a brute force contest. Kiln/QBD/Dks/tds/glacors/Nex can be the good bosses, with interesting mechanics. Limiting an area to low levels will only create more pure builds (overload, turm, chaotics/claws/torva, 80 hp/def, no summoning = 116 combat for example).

[Fielmann]

Meh, I don't really share others' enthusiasm about this BTS.

 

I'm not into combat so I don't really care for new monster drops either.

 

Graphical reworks (of which there's going to be two) aren't content.

 

Botany Bay = Jagex taking advantage of people's blood-thirsty urges to showcase fight against bots instead of fighting against bots? However, the whole idea sounds so retarded and perverse that I'm amazed rather than irritated.

 

These are the things that leave me cold, mostly. What I actively dislike is the daily challenges thing. I feel strongly that all these daily/weekly/monthly activities take away from players' freedom and quietly enslave them to the game.

 

Two quests is obviously nice, but the fact that they're both novice and that they will somehow feature a retelling of an old quest make me a bit skeptic. In the end this will probably still end up to be the enjoyable part of the month, though.

[Omali]

Botany Bay = Jagex taking advantage of people's blood-thirsty urges to showcase fight against bots instead of fighting against bots? However, the whole idea sounds so retarded and perverse that I'm amazed rather than irritated.

 

Oh yea, they're not doing anything about bots...

 

This week, you should notice a significant reduction in gold farmer spam. Over the course of the next few weeks, we will not only be launching our most comprehensive and formidable anti-bot update but players will also see a significant upgrade to their accounts' security to protect against phishing and hijacking. This is called Jagex Account Guardian, and we're introducing it within the next two weeks.

 

Maybe you should learn to read before calling people retarded.

[Thus]

Jagex should just ban the bots and put a listing of everyone they banned with username, skill levels, and time played. Make a high scores all with banned bots over a certain skill level.

 

That Botany Bay just sound so stupid. I don't want to see 1 bot at a time get banned. Ban them all.

 

Also my last problem coincides with the capital punishment problem: what if the accused is innocent? Way to slander someone if Jagex's bot detection messes up once.

[RU_Insane]

Jagex Account Guardian, huh? Sounds good. :P I didn't see any mention of the EoC being released this month. Safe to assume it won't be?

 

What I actively dislike is the daily challenges thing. I feel strongly that all these daily/weekly/monthly activities take away from players' freedom and quietly enslave them to the game.

 

...what? Those challenges are suggestions, not requirements. It's an attempt to alleviate boredom so players *can* use their freedom to play the game without it getting monotonous.

[Omali]

Jagex Account Guardian, huh? Sounds good. :P I didn't see any mention of the EoC being released this month. Safe to assume it won't be?

 

Not a chance. EoC is not ready for release at all.

[RU_Insane]

Jagex Account Guardian, huh? Sounds good. I didn't see any mention of the EoC being released this month. Safe to assume it won't be?

 

Not a chance. EoC is not ready for release at all.

 

Thank gosh. I'm not so ready yet to see my dear special attacks depart :P

[Ruinous Edge]

with the state of ftp combat especially mage and prayers, i'm not surprised EoC live release has been delayed.

[Kimberly]

Jagex Account Guardian, huh? Sounds good. :P I didn't see any mention of the EoC being released this month. Safe to assume it won't be?

 

It's slated for a November release currently (Source). Mod Pi put a good spin on it but honestly, we knew from day 1 with what they released that September was far too unrealistic. It was unfair that they had to put a cramped deadline on them, because it makes them look bad for delaying it. And they honestly didn't deserve that. So good job, whoever it was who made that call. You're the reason why devs hate upper management!

[RU_Insane]

Jagex Account Guardian, huh? Sounds good. I didn't see any mention of the EoC being released this month. Safe to assume it won't be?

 

It's slated for a November release currently (Source). Mod Pi put a good spin on it but honestly, we knew from day 1 with what they released that September was far too unrealistic. It was unfair that they had to put a cramped deadline on them, because it makes them look bad for delaying it. And they honestly didn't deserve that. So good job, whoever it was who made that call. You're the reason why devs hate upper management!

 

Oo, thanks. It's a good relief to know it'll take at least a couple months.

[Sy_Accursed]

Jagex Account Guardian, huh? Sounds good. :P I didn't see any mention of the EoC being released this month. Safe to assume it won't be?

 

It's slated for a November release currently (Source). Mod Pi put a good spin on it but honestly, we knew from day 1 with what they released that September was far too unrealistic. It was unfair that they had to put a cramped deadline on them, because it makes them look bad for delaying it. And they honestly didn't deserve that. So good job, whoever it was who made that call. You're the reason why devs hate upper management!

 

They never had a 'cramped deadline'

In the initial videos/info what was said 'September at the earliest, but we won't hesitate to delay if it needs it.' They never said it would be September, just gave Sept as the earliest which would obviously be based on 1 month(ish) of beta testing with 0 major issues thrown up.

 

Either way good to see update estimates as things progress.

[Syd]

I would take instanced GWD any day over the current system. They could be my favourite bosses if I didn't have to compete against other people every single time I go there. Even if I have 137 combat and access to all the luxuries (apart titans, that nobody hardly ever even uses there).

 

I don't really care if they did something with droprates to allow instanced bosses, but the current scenario is just too annoying. It's not even that just for the lower levels, it's same for higher levels (130+) too. Especially bandos is so crowded, at times I get to play it's almost impossible to find a world that wouldn't be filled with team of 130s+ or 138s soloing. I also dislike crashing anyways.

 

So in my opinion instanced GWD similar to QBD (except make teams possible) would be the best thing to happen with that place.

 

Besides, why the heck does GWD gear have to cost so much in the first place? I wouldn't care if they lowered their prices a little or make killing those bosses a little less profitable.

[Kimberly]

They never had a 'cramped deadline'

In the initial videos/info what was said 'September at the earliest, but we won't hesitate to delay if it needs it.'

 

No kidding. But they didn't exactly announce the delay prior to the last week in August, did they? Which is why it indicates someone forcing them to that timeframe until they could strongly demonstrate otherwise. They've always been honest about needing to push things back and I'm obviously not implying they're lying. Simply that someone who called that shot was unrealistic.

[Sir_Squab]

I would take instanced GWD any day over the current system. They could be my favourite bosses if I didn't have to compete against other people every single time I go there. Even if I have 137 combat and access to all the luxuries (apart titans, that nobody hardly ever even uses there).

 

I don't really care if they did something with droprates to allow instanced bosses, but the current scenario is just too annoying. It's not even that just for the lower levels, it's same for higher levels (130+) too. Especially bandos is so crowded, at times I get to play it's almost impossible to find a world that wouldn't be filled with team of 130s+ or 138s soloing. I also dislike crashing anyways.

 

So in my opinion instanced GWD similar to QBD (except make teams possible) would be the best thing to happen with that place.

 

Besides, why the heck does GWD gear have to cost so much in the first place? I wouldn't care if they lowered their prices a little or make killing those bosses a little less profitable.

I agree with this 100%, and basically said this, or at least tried to say this, in some of my earlier posts.

[tintin113]

While instanced GWD would be fantastic, I imagine it would be very difficult to instance it with its current layout, especially including the 40kc thing. Obviously they could change the layout but I like and always have liked the fact that it's a hole in the ground full to the brim with monsters including some of the biggest bosses in the game. Instancing the bosses would just take something away from that somehow...

 

In other news I'm seriously happy about this month's BTS, it's been a long time since I've really enjoyed reading a BTS post! This is the sort of thing that honestly makes me think that Solomon's Store and, minus the xp, SoF is worth it due to the extra funding it creates for our game. We'll need a few more months like this for that idea to be really validated though.

[Alexb8988]

Botany island, thata be something lol

Edited September 3, 2012 by Jeremy841
removed signature

[Power]

When it comes to gwd i went there as a low level and got crashed, so I trained and trained and went back. Now no one crashes me and it's a lot more boring with no competition, i don't think instancing it would be good for the game just for the sake of competition.

[Platinum_Myr]

I don't think instancing the bosses is necessarily the right way to go, because it introduces a lot of issues. However, I feel like the current state is pretty bad. Problem is that a solution is difficult because it requires balancing of many different concerns.

 

All I am trying to do is point out flaws in the current system.

[The Floating Pen]

Honestly, GWD gear (by GWD gear, I refer to Armadyl, Bandos, and Godswords, NOT Nex equipment) is simply not top-tier anymore. When GWD was first released, all of the gear was top-notch. Bandos was the best melee gear, Armadyl was the best range gear (well, along with Void since they each have their uses), and the Godswords were the best weapons to use against bosses.

 

Nowadays, there are alternatives. Torva and Pernix outclass Bandos and Armadyl, Godswords are outclassed by Chaotics, and the inclusion of many factors (Overloads, Turmoil, familiars, even Spirit Shields, Ganodermic, Armadyl Battlestaff, etc.) has led to the rise of other options. An example of this would be the Whip outperforming Godswords at many bosses simply because Overloads + Turmoil + you name it has greatly increased the accuracy of Whip.

 

In my opinion, GWD gear should be high-level tier... NOT endgame-tier. It should be a reasonable upgrade from Barrows/Dragon and it should be the step before Nex gear tier. Having Bandos chestplate cost 20,000,000+ is sort of ridiculous, considering that high-level tier can only make around 1.5-2 million per hour. Having to dedicate that much time making money just for one piece of equipment (which has the stunning benefit of... +4 Strength bonus?) is not feasible, and Jagex seems to understand the relative power of Bandos. In the EoC combat update, they made Bandos slightly better than Barrows, but only marginally... This is where Bandos should be: slightly above Barrows, not something used by the highest level players in the game.

 

On the other hand, Nex-gear is a little TOO extreme... a jump in price from 20,000,000 to 100,000,000+ per piece (while money making rises to 4-6 million per hour) seems like an insurmountable wall. If we lower the GWD gear to be slightly above Barrows, then the gap between GWD and Nex will increase even more.

 

Here is a flaw with GWD gear: Nex gear/Spirit shields/Top-tier boots/Dominion Tower gloves are virtually inaccessible to the majority of RuneScapers. The very very very top has access to this gear, but the rest do not... because their prices are exorbitant.

 

Because only the VERY top have access to Nex tier, the rest of the high levels rely on GWD gear. This means that everyone from level 75 to 99 uses GWD gear (except for a small portion of max players who can sport full Nex gear).

 

Solution: We need another tier. Perhaps another tier at level 90, while making Nex gear easier to obtain. That way, the very very very top has level 90 gear to play with, the majority of high levels can use Nex gear, and people who have grown out of their Barrows actually have a feasible gear upgrade: GWD gear. As of now, people generally use Barrows until they are fairly high level, simply because GWD gear is not very affordable. It is not very affordable because it is being used, even by top players who are almost maxed.

[Urza285]

Maybe not top gear, but as far as affordability its classified as top gear. I think all players need to keep that in mine... A lot of players will outright exclude nex gear from their judgment zone because of how expensive it is./\

[Robert_R]

Honestly, GWD gear (by GWD gear, I refer to Armadyl, Bandos, and Godswords, NOT Nex equipment) is simply not top-tier anymore. When GWD was first released, all of the gear was top-notch. Bandos was the best melee gear, Armadyl was the best range gear (well, along with Void since they each have their uses), and the Godswords were the best weapons to use against bosses.

 

Nowadays, there are alternatives. Torva and Pernix outclass Bandos and Armadyl, Godswords are outclassed by Chaotics, and the inclusion of many factors (Overloads, Turmoil, familiars, even Spirit Shields, Ganodermic, Armadyl Battlestaff, etc.) has led to the rise of other options. An example of this would be the Whip outperforming Godswords at many bosses simply because Overloads + Turmoil + you name it has greatly increased the accuracy of Whip.

 

In my opinion, GWD gear should be high-level tier... NOT endgame-tier. It should be a reasonable upgrade from Barrows/Dragon and it should be the step before Nex gear tier. Having Bandos chestplate cost 20,000,000+ is sort of ridiculous, considering that high-level tier can only make around 1.5-2 million per hour. Having to dedicate that much time making money just for one piece of equipment (which has the stunning benefit of... +4 Strength bonus?) is not feasible, and Jagex seems to understand the relative power of Bandos. In the EoC combat update, they made Bandos slightly better than Barrows, but only marginally... This is where Bandos should be: slightly above Barrows, not something used by the highest level players in the game.

 

On the other hand, Nex-gear is a little TOO extreme... a jump in price from 20,000,000 to 100,000,000+ per piece (while money making rises to 4-6 million per hour) seems like an insurmountable wall. If we lower the GWD gear to be slightly above Barrows, then the gap between GWD and Nex will increase even more.

 

Here is a flaw with GWD gear: Nex gear/Spirit shields/Top-tier boots/Dominion Tower gloves are virtually inaccessible to the majority of RuneScapers. The very very very top has access to this gear, but the rest do not... because their prices are exorbitant.

 

Because only the VERY top have access to Nex tier, the rest of the high levels rely on GWD gear. This means that everyone from level 75 to 99 uses GWD gear (except for a small portion of max players who can sport full Nex gear).

 

Solution: We need another tier. Perhaps another tier at level 90, while making Nex gear easier to obtain. That way, the very very very top has level 90 gear to play with, the majority of high levels can use Nex gear, and people who have grown out of their Barrows actually have a feasible gear upgrade: GWD gear. As of now, people generally use Barrows until they are fairly high level, simply because GWD gear is not very affordable. It is not very affordable because it is being used, even by top players who are almost maxed.

 

You're saying it needs to be high tier but not endgame. It is at that point right now. Bandos and armadyl are top tier while nex gear is endgame. The huge price difference between them is simply the cost for end game tier. While I agree there needs to be something between bandos/armadyl and nex gear, the prices aren't crazy. End game gear should only be accessible to a small amount of players. As long as nex gear is the best there shouldn't be any reason to make it easier to obtain.

[Sir_Squab]

When it comes to gwd i went there as a low level and got crashed, so I trained and trained and went back. Now no one crashes me and it's a lot more boring with no competition, i don't think instancing it would be good for the game just for the sake of competition.

I don't think instancing the bosses is necessarily the right way to go, because it introduces a lot of issues. However, I feel like the current state is pretty bad. Problem is that a solution is difficult because it requires balancing of many different concerns.

 

All I am trying to do is point out flaws in the current system.

 

Imo, an instanced GW is a hell of a lot better then what we currently have. It's not ideal, but it would probably be relatively easy to implement and would be a definite improvement. (I'm also not against the price of it dropping.)

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

When it comes to gwd i went there as a low level and got crashed, so I trained and trained and went back. Now no one crashes me and it's a lot more boring with no competition, i don't think instancing it would be good for the game just for the sake of competition.

I don't think instancing the bosses is necessarily the right way to go, because it introduces a lot of issues. However, I feel like the current state is pretty bad. Problem is that a solution is difficult because it requires balancing of many different concerns.

 

All I am trying to do is point out flaws in the current system.

 

Imo, an instanced GW is a hell of a lot better then what we currently have. It's not ideal, but it would probably be relatively easy to implement and would be a definite improvement. (I'm also not against the price of it dropping.)

 

Things I can think of when designing an instanced version of God Wars:

 

- How would teams work? Are they in a clan chat? Does Lootshare have to factor in to this? What about casuals that spontaneously want to form a group?

- How would death work? Does the dead player stand a chance to rejoin the same instance? (I can see a lot of pain here.)

- How long would it take to implement? Who would benefit the most from it? What's the return on investment for this development?

- Would a shared-instance world be more suitable to this, to allow for more flexible spontaneous teams?

- How would kill count work? (I believe it's reduced to 10 after/during EoC.) Would you be in an instanced variant of the boss's anteroom? Would you be able to gather killcount uninterrupted from players?

 

Mountain of technical questions here, my friend. Death, especially, would be the largest sticking point. Notwithstanding a few low to moderate technical hurdles, of course.

[Urza285]

I think jagex could make a binding item like the ring of kinsmanship that binds players together. How about an item called the Bloodpact Totem. The item could have a similar interface as the ring of kinsmanship. Instead you'd have options to make a party, turn coin share on, turn loot share on and maybe an option to turn on legend mode (if jagex every makes harder versions of bosses).

 

Jagex could then make rules/regulations where players and gravestones are instantly transported out in the "lobby" area of god wars dungeon if they disconnect or get booted. The doors to the halls could block groups and send chat notices that certain players haven't met the kc req.

 

Pretty much everything that you see in dungeoneering teams would transfer over. Obviously some things would change to safeguard booting for drops or luring.

[Blutters]

I should hope they'll be exporting graves to right outside the boss room with the update, and especially if there's an instance option. It's more of a legacy situation than legitimate challenge or risk to have graves appear in the boss room.