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Youmu

So how does Jagex ban bots, anyway?

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Thread escalation plz. =D>

 

"Give me something to believe in

'Cause I don't believe in you anymore, anymore

I wonder if it even makes a difference to try

Yeah, so this is goodbye"

~ "Makes Me Wonder", Maroon 5

 

As some of you may have known, my main account, Mister Sonic, was banned yesterday due to being falsely accused of "macro goldfarming". However, the fact that I don't even use something as simple as mousekeys pretty much means I have never touched a bot in my life.

 

This really made me wonder, what circumstances had happened that caused me to receive the permanent ban? It just doesn't make sense, someone with a 0 blackmark history shouldn't be instantaneously skyrocketing to permban status.

 

So I came up with a bunch of crackpot theories...

 

1. Jagex did a massive IP sweep for those living in the China region. As we all know, China is infamous for its gold selling on many MMORPG's everywhere, with even more crackpot theories like 24/7 sweatshops or farming on 8 accounts at once. Unfortunately most IP's in China are shared (ever wonder how the Great Firewall of No Facebook/Youtube/Twitter stopped nearly everyone in China from accessing those sites?), and I happen to share an IP from a gold farmer near my region.

 

2. Jagex may presumably be undergoing another experimental mass-ban which caught a few innocents along the way. Remember the repeatedly spying on a penguin glitch? Which caused like half the community to be banned? I'm thinking that something similar to this is happening to Botany Bay. And somehow, just somehow, I accidentally got caught in the net.

 

3. Jagex focuses on heavily botted training areas first. Well, the 2 days before I got banned, I was trying to get 89 mining at LRC, which just so happens to have MILLIONS of bots training together at the same time. Probably a WBM or someone similar decided to do a report sweep of everyone he/she sees at the botting site.

 

---

 

Of course, these are just all theoretical WMG's (Wild Mass Guesses, que TVTropes :3). Seeing how I got banned in the most senseless way, one really gets suspicious of what REALLY goes around when Jagex said they have an "improved" bot detection system. Because if it starts tripping up some false positives, there is already a mechanical flaw in the system.

 

Thoughts? Agree or disagree? You can pass me off as being a whiny permbanned noob, I don't really mind :P


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To me, the sharing an IP Address seems to be the most plausible explanation. Still, Jagex has remained very vague about what exactly allows them to do a perma-ban right from the get-go, so this is all conjecture. No one really knows for sure.


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They have had an extremely poor detection system in the past. Ie failed random events that get stuck for hours, progress reports of up to multiple days and even over a week, broken scripts after updates that just idle for hours, etc. I haven't heard of someone actually falsely accused of macro'ing til now. But if you indeed have never botted then just appeal, it should clear you.

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you got caught cheating, just accept it

-.-

 

Just wondering, but how many people share an IP address in China?


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I actually really don't know the specifics, nor would I want to know o.o

 

But I do get IP address conflicts every now and then, even when I'm using the internet alone.


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How much money would Jagex lose by just banning China and Korean IP addresses versus the cost in resources caused by botters from those same IP addresses?


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you got caught cheating, just accept it

 

You must be new here. If you can't contribute to the thread, don't post.

 

I think sharing IP with a major bot farmer and getting caught with a sweep. After all, even if you were just present in the group, Jagex doesn't just sweep the group regardless of where they are from. And as for some wanna-be mod, Jagex has said for years that they don't ban just because someone reported a player.

 

Hopefully contacting support through the email listed in your thread in rants will come up with some answers.

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Has a thread been made on RSOF about this? I'd help bump to help alert Jagex, it's best to get it popular soon, so they'll be forced to look into this.


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I don't think this has been made aware of in the RSOF (obviously because I can't post on either of my accounts at the moment).

 

But there has been cases of this happening through other fansites, or so I've heard. If Tip.It can help spread the word of this, it would be greatly appreciated!


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you got caught cheating, just accept it

 

You must be new here. If you can't contribute to the thread, don't post.

 

I think sharing IP with a major bot farmer and getting caught with a sweep. After all, even if you were just present in the group, Jagex doesn't just sweep the group regardless of where they are from. And as for some wanna-be mod, Jagex has said for years that they don't ban just because someone reported a player.

 

Hopefully contacting support through the email listed in your thread in rants will come up with some answers.

 

I don't think there is any need to be so dismissive as top25 does make a good point. While I am in no way trying to accuse the op of botting we only have his word to say that he didn't, vs jagex's word (by banning him) that he did. I agree that he could have posted it in a more constructive way though. Now I have never heard of anyone being banned for botting when they haven't so it does seem a strange case, though it is possible as they are changing their bot detection system now and there will obviously be some glitches in it.

 

Like MTheory posted above, if you really did not bot then definately appeal it and try and give jagex as much information as you can so that if this is a glitch they can fix it quickly before other people start getting banned too.

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Honestly dude, I don't think that ban will stick for long. I'm sure it'll be made apparent and I just heard Thai's tryin' to help you out. Good luck even though you probably don't need it, but sorry to hear about it.

 

 

The subject itself is sad, but I guess when you try to get shit done as quick as possible, this type of thing will happen (often in fact, it seems..). I'm thinking to myself, is Jagex being careful enough with these mass-bans via IP?

 

 

I have two answers for each separate scenario, but both really make me squirm typing them. I don't think they've approached this correctly.

 

 

 

Scenario one--- Jagex is completely understanding and capable of unbanning those who've done nothing wrong or even close to ban-worthy (quickly reversing the ban) :

 

If it happened to me and I had no worry about being banned permanently, yes I would take the loss. The mass-bans really aren't going to last forever, if Jagex pulls through, and bots ruin my game in many different ways. There's just too many.

 

Scenario two--- Jagex unknowingly banned a ton of players, and since they aren't actively seeking information from players all the time, it goes unnoticed for a decent period of time :

 

Complete definition of what I don't want Jagex to be like. Unimmersed in their community and not actively seeking player feedback. As well as being oblivious or caught up in other things to stop and look around at what's going on to the game in terms of a player's perspective. This is more likely than any other scenario, and personally I think Jagex already fulfills this description very well. They eventually look at a problem and it's already escalated to something retarded and they have a sloppy way of fixing it if it's immediate.

 

Edit : I wasn't around for that penguin glitch, and I have no idea how long it took Jagex to recognize what happened. This is on a (much) smaller scale than that if it truly was like half the active RS players. However, re-spying penguins, even to experiment and see if the glitch occurs, is still unfairly gaining tons of xp or gold if you choose that reward. I wouldn't feel sorry for the majority of those that got banned that way.


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i had my previous pure permabanned for the exact same reason, never once had i botted on it nor did i plan on botting, but because i was training at the ranging guild i spent around 4 hours there, logged off and went to bed and came home the next day from work ready to get into training again, only to find my account had been banned, and jagex could not rectify the issue because apparently my key strokes were too sequenced :s

 

also another addition is that the new age bots now have the ability to talk back, no matter what jagex do the botting websites will always be 2 steps ahead of them, for what was all of 12 months i'm pretty sure runescape was 90% bot free, now however.... its back to its old ways, next time you see one try talking to it, they will reply with "idonotknowwhatyouaresay" or "whatyoutalkingabout?" then a smiley face after each sentence, to avoid detection... this had made woodcutting on anything higher than maples damn near impossible -_-


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Did you buy any spins? They don't ban anyone who ever bought spins

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You're not the only person this has happened to Soniku, I've seen a few people saying they've had Chinese friends banned yesterday. Perhaps the bot update isn't all it's cracked up to be and Jagex resorted to "Ban China" as an alternative. Joking aside, this is a pretty serious problem. If the early stages of the nuke are catching innocent players in the net, what will happen when the main update is rolled out?


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1. That wouldn't be possible, people/users that have dynamic IPs could be affected.

 

2. I doubt it's happening again, although, I could be wrong.

 

3. This would be the most effective way to ban botters (target the main areas on the map where bots are).

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You're not the only person this has happened to Soniku, I've seen a few people saying they've had Chinese friends banned yesterday. Perhaps the bot update isn't all it's cracked up to be and Jagex resorted to "Ban China" as an alternative. Joking aside, this is a pretty serious problem. If the early stages of the nuke are catching innocent players in the net, what will happen when the main update is rolled out?

 

I picture the Jagex offices in a big musical number.

 

"Blame china! Blame China!

It seems that everything's gone wrong since China came along.

Blame China, Blame China!

They're not even real players anyway."

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There's always going to be false positives. No system is foolproof.

 

I've always advocated that people just settle down about bots and accept them as they are. The only way you're ever going to completely and effectively eradicate bots (or goldfarmers) is if you completely change the game itself. Of course, that's never going to happen if people still want to play "Runescape".

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I agree with that statement to some extent. bots are very hard to completely eradicate (much like everything and anything in Real Life), but I am of the opinion that players and the game makers should at least control the bot situation to a more acceptible situation, or else eventually it will run completely out of control and bots would be the only things 'playing' 'ruined-scape'


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False positives....My main account which I had been playing on rabidly for the past 3 weeks, taking it from a nooby mithril armour account to a dragon armour one was just perm banned yesterday. The first time that I knew that I myself was botting cause, you know, how can a big corporation with bots to catch bots ever be wrong? It seems that being afk for long periods of time trips the software. That or, being British, Jagex never really got over the separation issues with India. I used to say click on the cage fishing lobsters part and, not come back for 1-2 minutes. Once, just once, when I came back, I saw that, a guy had asked me twice whether I was a bot but, he was nowhere to be seen. What pisses me off is that, bots usually have a certain way of operating, right? I mean, I have seen lobster fishing bots operating for over 10 hours. That was NOT what happened with me. I would skip even profitable activities to go do something else cause I was bored. They named India too amongst the countries that supposedly have gold farmers and, I don't know their exact way of operation but, right now, to me, it seems pretty shitty. I have pked over 20 dragon killing bots in the 14 days I was a bond using member and, none of them were banned although they were pretty strong accounts. The moment I went f2p and, didn't redeem the bond for 2 days, I was banned. I wonder if this is a conspiracy to phase out all f2pers so that Runescape can become like World of Warcraft. In that  case, Star Wars the old republic beckons. 

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wait, you'd quit one rotting mmo carcass for an even smellier rotting mmo carcass?


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I'll be locking this thread as it has no discussion value as of now. If anyone think they could make a worthwhile discussion out of this topic, just shoot me or any other moderator a PM and we'll consider the request.

 

This will be locked, because the poster that necro'd this thread, has no chance to be helped due to recent policy of Jagex.


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