Tip.It Times Tip.It Times - 28th October 2012

[tripsis]

 

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[Sirenix]

RE: What's mine isn't yours.

 

I agree, I played quite some years ago, and thoroughly enjoyed helping those star crossed lovers. I recently started a new account because I had forgotten my info from the past, and found romeo was gone. I will miss them dearly.

[Seabourch]

I do miss those quests but its probably a necessary loss as Jagex aims to link up in game lore.

[decebal]

I always thought Mod Emilee was a bit crazy :P .

[strilmus]

gonna be honest, bringing in iron chef (original, not watered down version) would actually be pretty awesome

 

already have the sous chef outfit

[Spanked]

--My response is to Hamtaro's article only--

 

My take on the removal of "old" quests apparently is much the same as the author of the article... though I do see the Jagex reasoning as being legitimate, if they were being honest with their original explanation - though that can be debated since honesty coming from Jagex has been in question for quite some time! Anyway, I remember when they announced that they pulled Romeo & Juliet and that news hit when they updated the game early one morning. If I recall, I was actually playing at the time - though I'll admit my memory could be failing me, not that it matters one way or the other. Overall, I would have to say they were right... the quest didn't really fit into the game so I can not only see it, I can buy it. However, since they've ALWAYS had a habit of "stealing" content from popular culture while giving it a tweak, I'm somewhat puzzled by two things:

 

01 Why they didn't originally tweak R & J by renaming the characters into something that fit into the realm of Runescape when the quest was first installed?

 

02 If necessary, why didn't they originally tweak the basic storyline to also fit more into the game? You know... do the same thing they've been doing forever... which is to take something from the real world and tweak it before installing it into the game?

 

For both of these questions, I have this to say. They could easily have made "Juliet" into one of King Roald's daughters while re-naming her and made "the sop in love" Romeo into the son of someone else while re-naming him too... perhaps someone from Falador in the White Knight's castle? Oh, the possibilities... gone wasted. It could even have been something scandalous - an affair of Juliet with some NPC from... drum roll please... the Black Knight's Fortress! Not that I'd like the drama to go too far mind you... but it could have been vastly improved. I think everyone gets my point. Now, let's get back to that whole content inspiration thing, shall we?

 

As I previously stated, Jagex has incorporated (read that as liberally swiped & installed) a TON of things from popular culture into Runescape in one fashion or another... be it in humorous dialog, the basic storyline in a quest... or in a grouping of NPC characters somewhere on the Runescape map... or... in whatever. Example? Anyone remember anything from Star Wars in the mix of a quest somewhere in members play...? I AM YOUR FATHER and I sure do! While you cry out "NO! NoooOOoooOOoooOO!!!", I'm thinking about real world content in-game and I'm not sure how long it would take to compile a listing of all the things in the game that have a blatant or striking similarity to real world stuff... but there's a load and a half of it, no doubt about it. Heck... they've even gone so far as to create an entire mini-game based on a concept swiped from a popular animated series in my not so humble opinion. Anyone know what I'm referring to...? Anyone care to take a stab at it? You, dear reader, might be thinking of a few things... but I'll help you out. I'm talking PENGUIN HUNTING! Yes, one of my favorite weekly things to do while on members play was taken, though they may very well deny it, from Nick Park's Wallace & Gromit series. Specifically, the penguin end of it came from the animated film called "The Wrong Trousers". As you might guess, the "villain"... was... a.... PENGUIN. A sneaky, underhanded, spy-like penguin... not to put too fine a point on it. And yeah... Wallace & Gromit had to figure out what shenanigans were taking place before hunting him down. I'll leave it up to you all to see the film before deciding if I'm spot on the money or off my rocker (you can find it online for free if you look). However, I've already made up my mind. I say SOMEONE inside Jagex HQ was/is a serious Nick Park fan and that is precisely why they paid homage to Nick Park's penguin character or to the film when the whole Runescape penguin characters were dreamed up in the first place... and spawned quests, NPC characters and the mini-game itself. The bottom line is simply this: the programmers could have easily tweaked the original R & J quest to fit into the fantasy land of Runescape just like they can/could anything else... or simply made over the quest to fit once it became an issue with whoever it was that decided they didn't like it. AND IT TOOK HOW MANY YEARS FOR THAT TO HAPPEN? They all of a sudden decided they didn't like R & J after how many years?!? Don't get me started on that issue. Re-working of content has been something that has been going on for the whole of Runescape since the game first started, and other quests haven't been off limits. Why not re-work R & J too? I'll even argue that Runescape itself was re-worked... from what we now know as Classic to RS2. Going further, I can argue it has ALWAYS been re-worked... and is, in fact,,, a re-work in progress? Need I say more about an update for a couple of quests?

 

Here's another idea... why not leave the content in the game... but take away any requirements or quest points? In other words... just leave the content in place and allow it to be entirely optional. Hmmm... I wonder if anyone thought of that...? The modifications to take any quest off the quest list, etc would most likely have been minimal... even if if they didn't wish to re-work the quests to better fit into Runescape. My vote is a total re-working.. and bring them back when completed. Perhaps even with a little dash of scandal tossed in just to throw a loop into it to keep it fresh. After all, what kingdom is without a bit of scandal? :razz:

 

Perhaps there's another reason that the content was removed? Are they running out of memory? Was it hogging up resources? Thinking of it logically, I don't see those things as being an issue. Jagex has long had the cash to buy the power to run just about any code they'd like at more than enough speed to keep everyone happy - as long as they were willing to spend the money on it! Yes... lag has been a serious issue on and off for years. This too has been somewhat perplexing because memory and computing power should be a non-issue due to the available funds. What am I talking about? Spent cash = real world computing power and all the memory you'll ever need. Since that's an entirely different subject though... I'll leave it for another day other than to say once again that I don't believe removing content is necessary from a standpoint of speed and space. If they're having that much of a problem with it, we'll soon see quest after quest disappear to make room for new content - that I don't buy for a second.

 

As for why what is being done in regard to quest removal.... is being done... I'd say that the author was also right on that too. Whoever owns the controlling interest in Jagex (or at least in Runescape as a game) are the ones calling the shots and yes, it's obvious they're determined to squeeze cash out of Runescape and all the old rules have gone out the window. If they deem old content needs to go in order to attract new players, then that's exactly what they'll do. Just like we've seen the introduction of micro-transactions and content only available through a download (the Chrome O/S for the goggles) or by wasting cash on membership cards to gain fancy looking but otherwise worthless items... they're bound to do anything if they think they'll gain more cash. That might mean dumping beloved characters or quests or even entire sections of the current game map. There is no limit... because what they say goes. They own the game and there is no way around it. The trend for the future seems to be to expect the unexpected... and that we all should count on even more change. Some may be for the better, some may be for the worse. All we can do is hope for the better and if we feel up for it? Protest on the official Runescape forums. That's just about the only way to vocalize displeasure... other than to write editorials or a response to one on a fan site :smile:

 

Comments, constructive criticism or suggestions to my response are welcome, as usual.

 

-Spanked (back from the dead!)

[Alg]

They did retool the quest in that way, though. "Juliet" became one of the inhabitants of the Barbarian village, "Romeo" became a dwarf from Ice Mountain, and the quest gives a bit more backstory on an area that previously had none.

 

I agreed with their reasons for changing it from the start. It really doesn't make a good first impression when the first quest your new players do is a retelling of one of the most overdone stories in existence, regardless of how humorous they made it. It really seems like the only reason that we're against the change is nostalgia.

[PolarBearBlue]

I agree with ALG on this. I remember playing those quest and I dearly miss them (just as I do the random event). But they really don't fit well in this game anyomre. I actually didn't enjoy Romeo and Juliet but I loved Gunnars Ground. It makes more sense in the runescape realm, adds more backstory, and doesn't feel that generic (it is but not like Romeo and Juliet did for me). I even get to say sarcastic things and make fun of the dwarf.

 

I avoid starting quest all the time but ultimately like a lot of them because they have a story (and worth while rewards). Yeah it's novice but I learn more about characters and get totallty into it. That is what I think Jagex aims for aside from their (or your idea of their) buy spins campaign. No one is going to want to quest if they don't enjoy it, and they miss out on a lot. So by updating these old quest they are making it fun and can expand lore. Nostalgia is fun but eventually we have embrace the change. You can still buy vinyl records and listen to mp3's - or is it mp4 now?

[Scotaidh]

I do not post all that often, though I do read ALL the articles in the Times. Also, I took a leave of absence from the game back in January, and only returned mid-September to semi-regular play. However, on this article: Tradition by Hamtaro, I would like to comment.

 

I agree in part (parts?) with both Alg and PolarBearBlue with regards to "certain" content removal/retooling. I have been playing since the early part of 2001, and I recall when I first played Romeo & Juliet that the quest as a whole just did not feel right for Runescape. Thus, when it was removed, or I should say replaced, I did not have much to say in opposition...and still don't to be honest. There are times in any game when if something just doesn't fit with the overall scheme of things, you fix it as you (the game developer) deems to do so, in my opinion.

 

HOWEVER, there are other times when removing original content to replace it just does not make "complete" sense to me whatsoever. Doric's Quest is one of those. For me, personally, and speaking ONLY from my own standpoint, there was no real need to remove the original Doric's Quest...rather, What's Mine Is Yours could have been integrated into IT as an expansion on the original (just MY opinion here). Sure, to many removing the original is all well and good, and I do NOT disagree with those players, per se, as I have no real sense of stagnating the game play by keeping things the "old way" ( I play Classic from time to time to relive old memories, but would NOT want the game today to be as it was back then). All I am saying is that "some" things do not require removing just to "fit in" with today's game.

 

I am also NOT happy about the loss of Random Events, and find the response by the JMOD on the RS Forums to be totally baffling, in that they were removed because they "made no sense to keep." To me, such a response makes "no sense" because those Randoms WERE enjoyed not only by myself, but by many others as well; they made for a unique distraction from monotonous training...but that is just my two sense.

 

The article was very interesting, Hamtaro....thank you.

[Grand Lord Dan]

I do not post all that often, though I do read ALL the articles in the Times. Also, I took a leave of absence from the game back in January, and only returned mid-September to semi-regular play. However, on this article: Tradition by Hamtaro, I would like to comment.

 

I agree in part (parts?) with both Alg and PolarBearBlue with regards to "certain" content removal/retooling. I have been playing since the early part of 2001, and I recall when I first played Romeo & Juliet that the quest as a whole just did not feel right for Runescape. Thus, when it was removed, or I should say replaced, I did not have much to say in opposition...and still don't to be honest. There are times in any game when if something just doesn't fit with the overall scheme of things, you fix it as you (the game developer) deems to do so, in my opinion.

 

HOWEVER, there are other times when removing original content to replace it just does not make "complete" sense to me whatsoever. Doric's Quest is one of those. For me, personally, and speaking ONLY from my own standpoint, there was no real need to remove the original Doric's Quest...rather, What's Mine Is Yours could have been integrated into IT as an expansion on the original (just MY opinion here). Sure, to many removing the original is all well and good, and I do NOT disagree with those players, per se, as I have no real sense of stagnating the game play by keeping things the "old way" ( I play Classic from time to time to relive old memories, but would NOT want the game today to be as it was back then). All I am saying is that "some" things do not require removing just to "fit in" with today's game.

 

I am also NOT happy about the loss of Random Events, and find the response by the JMOD on the RS Forums to be totally baffling, in that they were removed because they "made no sense to keep." To me, such a response makes "no sense" because those Randoms WERE enjoyed not only by myself, but by many others as well; they made for a unique distraction from monotonous training...but that is just my two sense.

 

The article was very interesting, Hamtaro....thank you.

 

While there may be "many others" who enjoyed randoms, I would be inclined to believe there were many more who got nothing but irritated every time the game decided to drag them off to do something they didn't want to. I for one like being left alone to my monotonous nonsense, interruptions absolutely infuriate me. I will however agree that they should've added a toggle instead of complete removal. Some people were actually crazy enough to enjoy them.

[Arceus]

I kind of miss most of the random events, considering they were quick and entertaining, and that the XP reward was usually sufficient to make up for the time lost.

[firebird308]

I liked the randoms. They often saved me trips to the bank to deposit whatever I needed to depo. (Ore, loot, logs, fish, whatever.)