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20-Nov-2012 - Evolution of Combat: Now Live!


Randox

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Yay, magic damage data!

 

gallery_173254_290_9041.png

 

[hide=Raw Data]

    Surge    Storm    Wave    Blast    Bolt    Strike    Shown in-game
Impact    1.00    1.00    1.07    1.25    1.65    2.62    1.00
Wreck    1.24    1.25    1.33    1.57    2.60    3.27    1.25
Breath    1.88    1.88    2.00    2.36    3.11    4.94    1.88
Wild    2.18    2.19    2.33    2.74    3.62    5.74    2.50
Omni    3.99    4.01    4.27    5.02    6.62    10.52    4.00

[/hide]

 

Tests were all done on dummies, casting fire spells, not carrying the required runes, no potions, no prayers, no weaknesses. All recorded max hits are critical hits. Multiplier equals the recorded critical hit, divided by the damage shown in the equipment interface minus 99 (magic level).

 

As you can see, abilities which are supposed to have multipliers close to the bottom three lines, actually have much higher multipliers, up to 2.5 times as high as shown in-game for Fire Strike.

 

With a sample of 3 hits with 3 different abilities using fire strike, Metamorphosis seems to grant 125% damage, not 150%.

 

tl;dr fire wave > fire surge

 

Edit: if someone with 80 magic could test the critical hits of air surge for the five abilities above, that'd be real nice :).

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Well EoC has been out for about 10 days now. I just have a few thoughts/opinions about it. What i am about to say will most likely come off as a rant (probably because some of it is, in a way), but i guess i just wanted to get it out.

 

First of all, the past 10 days of playing RS has been some of the most fun i can remember having on this game. I started playing late 2007 (i think that was just before free trade was removed) so i never got to play RS in it's glory days (which i assume was anything from when it was first released to probably late 2006). So for me, the EoC has been great fun. I admit that the first 2 or 3 days getting used to the new abilities was a bit frustrating, and even now i'm still getting used to them and figuring out things. So far i've learned that actually spamming abilities can do more harm than good, and playing defensive can be very good in the right circumstances. It was a bit frustrating having to raise my Defense in order to wear armour i used to be able to wear, and even more frustrating knowing there's armour i would not be able to wear anymore. But those are all small sacrifices i was willing to make. PKing has changed a lot, which is the main reason i started making a Zerker (which is now a Rune Pure). But I kind of lost my appeal to PKing for a while now, and i've found a few bosses that are pretty fun to kill, even with 50 Defense. I think it's pretty cool that a Rune Pure can also enjoy some of the funner things in RS (and by this i mean PvM in the form of Bosses) without having to do so in large groups.

I like the fact that every NPC now has it's own weakness and that we are, in a way, forced to use a certain combat style to kill them efficiently. I've always been someone that likes using Range, Mage, and Melee for PvM but i always suffered a great loss in exp rates when i chose to do so. Now i know i can do this and still maintain top exp gains. I think that was a really good thing. I admit that some things might seem a bit out of whack at the moment, but i trust that i time these things will be ironed out. I've enjoyed doing Zammy and QBD the past few days using Mage. Who would have thought? GWD using Mage? It's awesome!

 

Now we get to the part of my post that might be seen as a bit of a rant. PKing. Not really PKing, but the PKing community.

I believe that the EoC has gotten rid of a lot of the old PKers. PKing was dying out as it was, pre-EoC, but i believe that this was sort of the "final straw" for a lot of the high-profile PKers (by this i mean the YT videomakers). Am i upset about that? No. In fact, i think this is one of the best things to happen to PKing in a very long time. Let's face it, the PKing community was a rotten one. People PJing left and right, Rushing, Luring. It was really a filthy sight, and managing to fight an honest fight was hard. Finding an honest high risk fight almost impossible at times. Getting rushed by some idiot who has no idea how to PK the conventional way and seeing him say "Bodied" ,"Sit", "Cya", "Mad?", "Scrub", "Hick", the list goes one, as he kills you while you were in a fight with someone else... that was something that could only cause great amounts of frustration. And i am happy that those guys have left. Now i know a lot of high-profile PKers were not PJers nor Rushers, but a lot of them were players with rotten attitudes in game and they had a lot of influence on what the PKing world was.

 

Then we get to the people that quit because of EoC. I respect anyone who quit, but only if they had a valid reason. I've seen so many people quit simply because "i spent 10 minutes on RS and it was gay", "x-yt videomaker says it's gay, so that means it has to be and i'm quitting because of it".

Not sad to see those guys go, at all. RS doesn't need them.

Also the guys who have their "in depth thoughts on EoC" which is a 5 second video of them saying "It's gay" then logging off, or their "EoC how to guide" which is a 10 second video of them logging in, and logging out. Glad to see them go.

 

I don't know if i'm just bitter, but i've become really tired of all the idiots that have surfaced since talk of EoC. I know there were a lot of them before them, but even more of them seemed to have come out after the release of the Beta. I'm happy that most of them left. Oh and then as a last thought the people who say "I quit RS, EoC is gay" and constantly comment on EoC related videos on yt, then still log in each and every day to play RS...

 

Anyway, overall thoughts of EoC so far :thumbup:

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I feel like Momentum is at least a 25-30% boost, I managed a hit about 50% more than my max when using Momentum on a slayer task (with helm bonus).

 

I guess Torment adding more magic damage on abilities is fair enough, since those don't account for 2h.

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Well, I tried QBD yesterday, they have fixed her up also. So now she hits 2x1000 per fire wall, which with a triple firewall and some tormented souls will easily KO you if you lagg or something.

 

Also I died a few times on her last form when somehow i got hit even more. Not sure what is up with that but following the different YT guides, I couldn't get to put her to rest because she was hitting so much more than before.

I just got home and did a run with her to see if what you said was accurate. I still got hit 750's from walking through the fire wave. the 2x thing I think is just an issue with the code on how you walk. This means if you walk directly through it, not horizontal, you should only suffer 1000 damage. If the systems pathfinding code makes you walk horizontally Through the flames you'll suffer the damage twice. Also I think 1000 damage is from your antifire potion running out.

 

Also I want to note I did the trip accidentally forgetting to bring prayer potions so I went in just using torment and soulsplit at critical points. Mind you also I was maging and this is by far the best method to attempt her with. With bloodfire blitz and soulsplit active you are effectively healing 25% of your damage back to you. I used overload, prayer renewal, super antifire, unicorn + scrolls, dreadnips and rocktail when needed. I think I used about 7 rocktail becuase I let the souls get to me, but a few I managed ot trick.

 

Here is my set-up.

 

qbdsetup1.png

 

I can't see your set up. :cry: Need to kill the QBD for the rest of the journeys so could use a new guide/set up .

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Well, I tried QBD yesterday, they have fixed her up also. So now she hits 2x1000 per fire wall, which with a triple firewall and some tormented souls will easily KO you if you lagg or something.

 

Also I died a few times on her last form when somehow i got hit even more. Not sure what is up with that but following the different YT guides, I couldn't get to put her to rest because she was hitting so much more than before.

I just got home and did a run with her to see if what you said was accurate. I still got hit 750's from walking through the fire wave. the 2x thing I think is just an issue with the code on how you walk. This means if you walk directly through it, not horizontal, you should only suffer 1000 damage. If the systems pathfinding code makes you walk horizontally Through the flames you'll suffer the damage twice. Also I think 1000 damage is from your antifire potion running out.

 

Also I want to note I did the trip accidentally forgetting to bring prayer potions so I went in just using torment and soulsplit at critical points. Mind you also I was maging and this is by far the best method to attempt her with. With bloodfire blitz and soulsplit active you are effectively healing 25% of your damage back to you. I used overload, prayer renewal, super antifire, unicorn + scrolls, dreadnips and rocktail when needed. I think I used about 7 rocktail becuase I let the souls get to me, but a few I managed ot trick.

 

Here is my set-up.

 

qbdsetup1.png

 

I can't see your set up. :cry: Need to kill the QBD for the rest of the journeys so could use a new guide/set up .

qbdsetup1.png

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anyone try jad or kiln yet?

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anyone try jad or kiln yet?

Because of jads mechanics his attacks in both fight caves and kiln are legacy issues protection prayers work 100% on them.



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anyone try jad or kiln yet?

Because of jads mechanics his attacks in both fight caves and kiln are legacy issues protection prayers work 100% on them.

 

Renosance (Required shield) is handy for Jad as well. You can use his hits to heal up quickly to save food/healing scrolls in the Kiln.

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Here's the stats that got me thinking about it.

 

Vine whip : 720 dmg (fastest)

EEE : 428 dmg (fastest)

 

CLS : 980 dmg (fast)

OH CLS : 490 dmg (fast)

 

The crux of this is the EEE: while it's a level 70 weapon, its damage rating is currently far above its tier (should be level 89). This means that as an offhand, the EEE is actually much better than OH CLS.

 

Unfortunately because of weird combat mechanics, if you pair a Fastest OH with a Fast mainhand, the system doesn't allow 2 damage splats to occur at the same time and slows the OH weapon down. In this case, wielding the EEE with a mainhand CLS turns the EEE into a Fast weapon, now doing less damage than the OH CLS. So the EEE doesn't synergise well with CLS.

 

Now if you use the EEE with a vine whip, both retain their Fastest attack speed so the EEE behaves like a level 89 OH weapon. From here, you can calculate that vine whip + EEE turn out a baseline average damage of 162.125 per tick compared to dual CLS at 161.9. So the EEE and vine whip combo are marginally better, given very high accuracy (e.g. slash-weak slayer task).

 

Of course EEE gets away with its innate healing effect too, besides being non-degrading :P So it's not really about the vine whip being on par with chaotics, it's about an offhand that works much better with a weapon faster than chaotics. Keep in mind that CLS abilities will be more powerful than vine whip abilities.

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In real life MMO you don't get 99 smithing by making endless bronze daggers.

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My setup was this: gano hood, top, bottom, chaotic staff, seers (I), arcane stream, comp cape, spellcaster gloves, Ragefire boots.

 

Inventory had uni scrolls, dreadnips, ovl, pray renew, super antifire, fires, bloods, 3 pray pots and rest rocktail.

 

Any decent gear should suffice. Dreads are just something extra. Most of your heat comes from te staff and healing too.



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Here's the stats that got me thinking about it.

 

Vine whip : 720 dmg (fastest)

EEE : 428 dmg (fastest)

 

CLS : 980 dmg (fast)

OH CLS : 490 dmg (fast)

 

Now if you use the EEE with a vine whip, both retain their Fastest attack speed so the EEE behaves like a level 89 OH weapon. From here, you can calculate that vine whip + EEE turn out a baseline average damage of 162.125 per tick compared to dual CLS at 161.9. So the EEE and vine whip combo are marginally better, given very high accuracy (e.g. slash-weak slayer task).

 

 

How exactly do you calculate the average damage ?

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Here's the stats that got me thinking about it.

 

Vine whip : 720 dmg (fastest)

EEE : 428 dmg (fastest)

 

CLS : 980 dmg (fast)

OH CLS : 490 dmg (fast)

 

Now if you use the EEE with a vine whip, both retain their Fastest attack speed so the EEE behaves like a level 89 OH weapon. From here, you can calculate that vine whip + EEE turn out a baseline average damage of 162.125 per tick compared to dual CLS at 161.9. So the EEE and vine whip combo are marginally better, given very high accuracy (e.g. slash-weak slayer task).

 

 

How exactly do you calculate the average damage ?

It's half your max hit.

Forgot to add that those numbers are calculated with 99 strength, which obviously favour the fast weapons more.

6Ij0n.jpg

In real life MMO you don't get 99 smithing by making endless bronze daggers.

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Let me get something clarified: when using abilities, a staff does more damage than DW when casting magic spells, correct?

 

No. It doesn't matter what Magic weapon you use, you'll deal the same damage with abilities if you were to use a wand + shield, instead of a staff. Which is lame.

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My setup was this: gano hood, top, bottom, chaotic staff, seers (I), arcane stream, comp cape, spellcaster gloves, Ragefire boots.

 

Inventory had uni scrolls, dreadnips, ovl, pray renew, super antifire, fires, bloods, 3 pray pots and rest rocktail.

 

Any decent gear should suffice. Dreads are just something extra. Most of your heat comes from te staff and healing too.

 

Thank you for the set up! Also thanks Coconut Bodywash for the picture! I killed QBD before EOC and it took me forever to take her down! I am hoping she is a bit easier now.

 

P.S. I Need the other journals not journeys. :wink:

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Lol maybe I'm just late in noticing, but it appears Momentum causes your character to randomly use basics.

just late in noticing

:)

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Sounds rather automated to me tbh

 

Hi Bruno,

Thanks for sending over this feedback on the EoC. I've passed all of this over to our developers so they can take a closer look.

In regards to abilities, our developers are looking to see what future additions could be brought in at a later date so whilst melee may seem to have more at present there will almost certainly be more for the other combat groups later. Whilst it may seem like spamming the attacks now it's really a matter of getting to grips with which ability does what and which combination makes the most effective attack strategy. Once you get to grips with the system we're sure you'll start to see more tactical advantage to combat.

Thanks again for sending in this feedback. We'll make sure our developers see it.

Kind regards.

Mod Crow

RuneScape Community Team

Jagex Games Studio

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I know that I've found a few fun combinations for dungeons. (use kick to make them move after an attack that does more dmg if they move spaces, etc)

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I know that I've found a few fun combinations for dungeons. (use kick to make them move after an attack that does more dmg if they move spaces, etc)

Or just step underneath the guy instead of wasting an ability cast ;)

 

How can you send feedback to them?

They sent out emails to certain beta testers they deemed good sources of feedback, so you could just mail them at that address with your feedback.

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In real life MMO you don't get 99 smithing by making endless bronze daggers.

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I know that I've found a few fun combinations for dungeons. (use kick to make them move after an attack that does more dmg if they move spaces, etc)

Or just step underneath the guy instead of wasting an ability cast ;)

 

Derpy me.

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