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04-12-12 - The Brink of Extinction - Grandmaster Quest


Octarine

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His race's ambitions are forfeit as his idea of honorable conduct is skulking around and messing with Tzhaar city's plumbing.

The worst part is how effective it all was.

 

However their true goal was far more sinister. They planned nothing less than establishing a front company in the market district of Tzhaar City with the aim of selling Heat Globes purchased for a fire sale price from the residents of Ghorrok fortress during the end of the God Wars. We would have had Tzhaar-hur working horrendous overtime only to spend all of their hard earned tokkul to heat their homes and warm their eggs, with the upper castes not faring much better.

 

 

Really though, why did Hok try to murder all of the Tzhaar?

 

I thought Hok viewed the TzHaar as inferior/corrupt offshoots who refused to return to the Sacred Kiln, and as such decided that the best thing to do was to end their wayward race?

That sounds about right, that's what I got from the quest dialogue personally. Bottom line Hok viewed TzHaar as inferior and thus took the executive decision that all ThZaar's deserved to die.

It's also key to note that the way the TzHaar avoided rejoining the lava, turning into TokKul, caused immense suffering for the TzHaar that they didn't know about. The TokHaar probably saw themselves as benevolent saviors by ending the TzHaar race. I think our way of solving the problem, ie just telling the TzHaar that ,"TokKul is bad idea," worked out better for all involved.

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The TokHaar also have a very good incentive for coercing the TzHaar back into the sacred lava. During the TzHaar's centuries as individuals, they have gathered a constant stream of collective experience and knowledge which is never lost due to the way they reproduce. They have concepts such as currency and rudimentary ideas of JalYt customs, which the TokHaar do not. They have built a civilization and a way of life which the TokHaar could not dream of.

 

They may not have approved the TzHaar leaving the Kiln in the first place, but they weren't going to give up the opportunity to gain so much knowledge and experience. Had nobody brokered the agreement, the TokHaar would have blackmailed the TzHaar into the choice of either dying and having their knowledge lost forever or joining the collective. Had the volcano cooled enough, resistance really would have been futile.

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I always enjoy reading your analyses Will.

 

For someone who doesn't really like much of combat, I found myself enjoying the cauldron, if only because death didn't mean a damned thing and you could just go right back in. Great when you get the double TokHaar-Ket-Zek waves. Wearing Karil's and praying mage doesn't do a thing to mitigate the damage during that :-|

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just had a revolutionary thought... this story is the cold war.. (geddit), with the communists (tokhaar whatevhar) wanting everyone equal, and the capatalists wanting to continue their ineffective social scheme...

 

jagex is american, explains so much, like why rs has gone south.. (and maybe mushroom shaped somewhere down the line)

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just had a revolutionary thought... this story is the cold war.. (geddit), with the communists (tokhaar whatevhar) wanting everyone equal, and the capatalists wanting to continue their ineffective social scheme...

 

jagex is american, explains so much, like why rs has gone south.. (and maybe mushroom shaped somewhere down the line)

Problem is I'd hardly call the TzHaar's social scheme ineffective, there society thrived until TokHaar-Hok intentionally cooled down the TzHaar's volcano by turning off the sacred lava vents.

They flourished, built relations with the humans, learnt our language and invented there own currency and a way to keep the memories of the long dead TzHaar's alive all since they split up from the TokHaar and elder kiln.

And since when have Jagex been American? they're an English company based in Cambridge, the only American influence in Jagex is IVP as far as I'm aware.

Quest Cape Achieved 10/08/2012

TFU: Ruinous Edge

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Jagex was British, until two years ago, when IVP bought the majority of the stock.

Also, the cold war story is already incorporated into the penguin storyline. I really can't compare the Tzhaar storyline with the communist-capitalist problems we had last century.

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dw, was semi trolling in that post. In all seriously, I liked the quest, but wasn't really too interested in the storyline, as all I ever see is James bond style Cliche, despite all their supposed "reasons", or justifications... Boss fight was enjoyable, if a bit easy...

 

also does NO one get puns?.......

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I wasn't really happy to this "epic conclusion" and I really hope this doesn't go the way of the Slug Menace. (great build-up, shitty ending) TokHaar love to fight, but they would still get their fighting if they attacked the TzHaar. They'd most certainly fight the JalYt (the player) who defended the city, so it still accomplishes their goals. Also, the temperature of the city caused the Ga'al? When we were bathing it in TzHaar and human fire magicks? It's really improbable.

 

While I can enjoy it, it's hard to overlook these "huh" sort of things in a Grandmaster level quest. It's not like the novice-level quests of Rune Memories, when you have no idea why Ariane's teacher wouldn't just blow up the tower himself, but you can shrug it off because individuals are stupid. The TokHaar definitively wanted the destruction or assimilation of the TzHaar, and could have done so by force. Even if they were playing "the long game" there are still some things that just don't make sense.

 

Overall I liked the quest, I think the fight cauldron was really fun and inventive. Definitely a good crash course for learning the new combat system. But the epic conclusion we faced here left something to be desired that we didn't quite feel with The Elder Kiln quest.

 

also does NO one get puns?.......

 

No your jokes are just bad goml

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I wasn't really happy to this "epic conclusion" and I really hope this doesn't go the way of the Slug Menace. (great build-up, shitty ending) TokHaar love to fight, but they would still get their fighting if they attacked the TzHaar. They'd most certainly fight the JalYt (the player) who defended the city, so it still accomplishes their goals. Also, the temperature of the city caused the Ga'al? When we were bathing it in TzHaar and human fire magicks? It's really improbable.

 

While I can enjoy it, it's hard to overlook these "huh" sort of things in a Grandmaster level quest. It's not like the novice-level quests of Rune Memories, when you have no idea why Ariane's teacher wouldn't just blow up the tower himself, but you can shrug it off because individuals are stupid. The TokHaar definitively wanted the destruction or assimilation of the TzHaar, and could have done so by force. Even if they were playing "the long game" there are still some things that just don't make sense.

 

Overall I liked the quest, I think the fight cauldron was really fun and inventive. Definitely a good crash course for learning the new combat system. But the epic conclusion we faced here left something to be desired that we didn't quite feel with The Elder Kiln quest.

 

also does NO one get puns?.......

 

No your jokes are just bad goml

Problem is the eggs needed the sacred lava to melt and reforge the tokkul to create true TzHaars, hence without the sacred lava there were empty shells aka the Ga'al, the bare bones of the TzHaar if you will, stripped of there memories, heritage and combat prowess.

Quest Cape Achieved 10/08/2012

TFU: Ruinous Edge

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A piece of glass in the sand under your feet, it cuts you deep and it makes you hate the beauty that you see.

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Tokkul were the remains of dead TzHaar I thought. I didn't know they were related at all to the birthing process? If memories are passed from individual tzhaar to hatchling, how is it that the one who birthed the egg can give its memories via tokkul when it's very much alive?

 

tldr: what am i not understanding from the lore?

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Tokkul were the remains of dead TzHaar I thought. I didn't know they were related at all to the birthing process? If memories are passed from individual tzhaar to hatchling, how is it that the one who birthed the egg can give its memories via tokkul when it's very much alive?

 

tldr: what am i not understanding from the lore?

I was under the impression the shared knowledge of the TzHaar was somehow passed onto the newer generation via Tokkul during the birthing process. I may be on a completely wrong thought process, maybe I'm misunderstanding the lore? I honestly am not sure.

Quest Cape Achieved 10/08/2012

TFU: Ruinous Edge

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A piece of glass in the sand under your feet, it cuts you deep and it makes you hate the beauty that you see.

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Tokkul were the remains of dead TzHaar I thought. I didn't know they were related at all to the birthing process? If memories are passed from individual tzhaar to hatchling, how is it that the one who birthed the egg can give its memories via tokkul when it's very much alive?

 

tldr: what am i not understanding from the lore?

I was under the impression the shared knowledge of the TzHaar was somehow passed onto the newer generation via Tokkul during the birthing process. I may be on a completely wrong thought process, maybe I'm misunderstanding the lore? I honestly am not sure.

If I recall correctly memories and knowledge are passed from one TzHaar to the other through birthing, but TokKul is not a part of that process. TokKul comes from the dead body of a TzHaar which have the specific personality (The soul if you will) stored in them in everlasting torment. It is the last part the TokHaar objected to, not the birthing process if I have everything straight.

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Tokkul were the remains of dead TzHaar I thought. I didn't know they were related at all to the birthing process? If memories are passed from individual tzhaar to hatchling, how is it that the one who birthed the egg can give its memories via tokkul when it's very much alive?

 

tldr: what am i not understanding from the lore?

I was under the impression the shared knowledge of the TzHaar was somehow passed onto the newer generation via Tokkul during the birthing process. I may be on a completely wrong thought process, maybe I'm misunderstanding the lore? I honestly am not sure.

If I recall correctly memories and knowledge are passed from one TzHaar to the other through birthing, but TokKul is not a part of that process. TokKul comes from the dead body of a TzHaar which have the specific personality (The soul if you will) stored in them in everlasting torment. It is the last part the TokHaar objected to, not the birthing process if I have everything straight.

Fair enough then, but if they did approve of the usual birthing process why did they seek to destroy the TzHaar by cooling down the volcano? Ga'al's were being produced before we fused the tokkul with Ga'al-Xox.

Quest Cape Achieved 10/08/2012

TFU: Ruinous Edge

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A piece of glass in the sand under your feet, it cuts you deep and it makes you hate the beauty that you see.

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Because the TzHaar were leaving the TokKul instead of melthing it in the sacred lava. The TokKul = crushed remains of a Tzhaar body which gives immense pain to the soul of the original TzHaar.

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After the quest, you can see thzaar throwing tokkul into the flow of sacred lava near the Fight Cauldron.

So, (lore-wise) they have stopped using tokkul as a a currency and instead they cast it into the sacred lava, releasing the dead tzhaars' souls from their pain.

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Because the TzHaar were leaving the TokKul instead of melthing it in the sacred lava. The TokKul = crushed remains of a Tzhaar body which gives immense pain to the soul of the original TzHaar.

Oh yes of course, major derp moment there :/ on a plus note I finally achieved my firecape goal can retire a happy 'scaper now :)

One slight issue with the lore of BoE, they should have updated the descriptions of the statues around the volcano, they still say they're made of Tokkul, which is causing suffering to dead ancestors still, which should lore wise at least anger the TokHaar, how hard would it be to update the description from Tokkul to something like stone?

Quest Cape Achieved 10/08/2012

TFU: Ruinous Edge

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A piece of glass in the sand under your feet, it cuts you deep and it makes you hate the beauty that you see.

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After the quest, you can see thzaar throwing tokkul into the flow of sacred lava near the Fight Cauldron.

So, (lore-wise) they have stopped using tokkul as a a currency and instead they cast it into the sacred lava, releasing the dead tzhaars' souls from their pain.

 

The TokHaar still view the TzHaar as something sordid and abhorrent however. -Hok speaks with such scorn about how the TzHaar had adapted to living away from the Kiln, calling the birthing process filthy and disdaining the Tokkul-trapped remains when they die, rather than rejoining the group as the Elder Gods intended. The TzHaar aren't just rebels, they're abominations to them. So what I have a hard time getting is...why just leave it at that? Overall we didn't get much of a hint to any sequel, and the fact that the story is sort of just being "left at that" with nothing hinting towards more is very disappointing.

 

Overall a small dent in my otherwise good experience with the quest.

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^ :(

 

I wasn't really happy to this "epic conclusion" and I really hope this doesn't go the way of the Slug Menace. (great build-up, shitty ending) TokHaar love to fight, but they would still get their fighting if they attacked the TzHaar. They'd most certainly fight the JalYt (the player) who defended the city, so it still accomplishes their goals.

I don't think the TokHaar wanted to risk leaving the Sacred Kiln to attack the TzHaar in their city, knowing full well that death out of the Kiln would consign them to a similar fate as the TokKul.

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I think their explanation for that was the tokhaar were impressed enough by your ability to fight that they respect your strength over whatever differences they have with the tzhaar, and consider regular combat with you more useful than having the tzhaar rejoin them at that point in time. As they are effectively immortal, they have plenty of time to play with their new toy, and as the tokkul rejoins the lava, they will also be provided with the souls of the departed.

 

Of course, this is only a tentative agreement as long as the champion lives; when you are gone, they will most likely become restless again.

 

Will they ever let you translate the books in the last shelf? I threw away my orb once it became clear that it wasn't going to help once it got cut off and I can't get another.

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Anyway, I'm pretty sure the tzhaar have no memory of the lava conduit because when they failed to return the tokkul to the lava flow, the memories of the conduit were eventually lost over the ages as newer tzhaar were not born with them, in a manner similar to what was creating the gaal.

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Speaking of the Orb, is it just me or does the Communications Orb look like a miniature Death Star with colours?

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Anyway, I'm pretty sure the tzhaar have no memory of the lava conduit because when they failed to return the tokkul to the lava flow, the memories of the conduit were eventually lost over the ages as newer tzhaar were not born with them, in a manner similar to what was creating the gaal.

 

Perhaps the TzHaar are to the TokHaar as the Ga'Al are to the TzHaar. So the TokHaar driving the TzHaar to extinction was like sending off the Ga'Al to the fight pits, so in order to save themselves the TzHaar needed to see value in the Ga'Al to convince the TokHaar.

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Treasure Trails: Saradomin Full Helm, Ranger Boots, Rune Body (t), Saradomin Vambraces, Various God Pages
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