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#41
Kaida23
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Or maybe they dropped too much on mechscape / stellar dawn / transformerscape :<

That's definitely a big problem for them. I know they pretty much threw truckloads of money down the MechScape/Stellar Dawn money pit, so that money would have to be recouped somewhere.

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So, Kaida is the real version of every fictional science-badass? That explains a lot, actually...


#42
Riptide Mage
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It's dying because Runescape can no longer survive on membership subscriptions alone.


This is entirely Jagex's fault. Server and bandwidth fees decrease every year, and the number of shards possible per server increases every year. One or two solid updates a month like was done years and years ago could easily maintain the game. IVP is greedy, plain and simple.

You make it sound like running through a few level 87 monsters is hard which it really shouldn't be at your level.



#43
Alg
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This is entirely Jagex's fault. Server and bandwidth fees decrease every year, and the number of shards possible per server increases every year. One or two solid updates a month like was done years and years ago could easily maintain the game. IVP is greedy, plain and simple.

Yeah... No.

If Jagex has done anything wrong, it's that they never really adapted to changes in the game landscape. They were a very successful freemium MMO back when there weren't really any other freemium MMOs, nowadays you can find hundreds of games using the same model, but with better technology and gameplay behind them, and multiplayer games are omnipresent. Bigger MMOs than Runescape are finding that the subscription model isn't sustainable anymore.

They got complacent with their status as the "number one free game" and the rest of the world overtook them.

#44
muggiwhplar
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It's dying because Runescape can no longer survive on membership subscriptions alone.


This is entirely Jagex's fault. Server and bandwidth fees decrease every year, and the number of shards possible per server increases every year. One or two solid updates a month like was done years and years ago could easily maintain the game. IVP is greedy, plain and simple.


There's a lot more to it than that. Without going too off-topic (again lol), consider RS in its "prime" which many would agree was around 2005-2006. A lot of the "best" updates at the time damaged the game in the long-run, but the damage wouldn't be notice until it had already been done. If Jagex quit making "game-changing" updates, then people would eventually get bored and move on to another game.

Examples include:
-"Choose the best world for me" feature, and sorting worlds by Ping: less people had "homeworlds," and instead hopped onto random worlds. Less "familiarity" and "community" feel at banks and popular training spots since you'd no longer bump into the same people every day while training

-Skill capes: People used to train skills to ~85 and quit. 99s became common and everyone wanted a fancy cape to show off. "High-leveled" content has lots its significance because so many people are maxed when high leveled updates are released now. As opposed to in the past where having 90+ in a skill such as runecrafting or slayer was pretty uncommon

-GWD/Nex: There used to be a small gap between the rich and the middle class. Rich items were generally cosmetic (dragon gear; rares), while the best gear was reasonably obtainable. You only had to work for about 15 hours with a modest income to get a whip or barrows. After GWD/Nex, PvM basically made skilling for cash obsolete. Nex exacerbated the problem by creating an incredibly overpowered set of equipment that required the same amount of time to "legitimately" obtain as training a skill 99

With more people wanting the best, out-of-reach gear and with maxing becoming a goal for the average scaper, rather than a tiny minority, people began obsessing over efficiency in order to make that goal as tolerable as possible. Spreadsheets and formulae become common knowledge. Every piece of existing content is heavily scrutinized and if it's not the best DPS or the best XP/hr, then it's immediately cast aside and considered useless or a waste of time. The game's variety and options are quickly narrowed down to only the "best."

...just my two cents on some of the more subtle changes over time in the RS community since the 2006ish. There's a whole lot more, but that should give you a good idea of what I'm saying. Feel free to reply to this in a new topic if you'd like to discuss it more in-depth though. I thought about writing a topic about this earlier, except without my own commentary, but I guess this'll do for now :P

tl;dr: "Solid updates" aren't always a good thing.

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#45
Zerker_Jane
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#46
999134
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There has never been 600k simultaneous players online. Seriously, where do these figures come from?

There has never been 600k simultaneous players online. Seriously, where do these figures come from?

Waaaaaaay back in like 2006-2007 they used to do an announcement whenever the record for online players was broken. I can't remember it may not have been as many as 600k, but it was huge, cant be bothered to go through archieves atm
Check it out, huge amount of effort has gone into this massive mod!
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#47
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There has never been 600k simultaneous players online. Seriously, where do these figures come from?

There has never been 600k simultaneous players online. Seriously, where do these figures come from?

Waaaaaaay back in like 2006-2007 they used to do an announcement whenever the record for online players was broken. I can't remember it may not have been as many as 600k, but it was huge, cant be bothered to go through archieves atm


I remember those posts. Whilst I don't remember the figure I'm pretty certain it wasn't much more than 300k.

#48
Arcley
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though. I thought about writing a topic about this earlier, except without my own commentary, but I guess this'll do for now :P

tl;dr: "Solid updates" aren't always a good thing.

Hard to take you seriously when every single one of those was a good update, even long-term considered. It's not like adding Nex gear removed any existing training options from the game.

I'd be willing to bet more people quit over removing free trade / SoF than those things combined. Maybe some of them come back eventually but things like that really hurt the popularity of the game.

#49
muggiwhplar
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You can't pretend that Nex gear doesn't exist when you're engaging in PvP against a person with Nex gear, or competing against someone w/ Nex gear in PvM.

And yes I'm sure more people quit over free trade/SoF, however whether or not people quit is irrelevant if they're still playing w/o having fun (or having less fun than prior to the updates).

Start another topic about this or PM me if you want to discuss this further, though. I don't want to get off-topic again.

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#50
Ginger_Warrior
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though. I thought about writing a topic about this earlier, except without my own commentary, but I guess this'll do for now :P

tl;dr: "Solid updates" aren't always a good thing.

Hard to take you seriously when every single one of those was a good update, even long-term considered. It's not like adding Nex gear removed any existing training options from the game.

I'd be willing to bet more people quit over removing free trade / SoF than those things combined. Maybe some of them come back eventually but things like that really hurt the popularity of the game.

From personal experience from "real life" people I know who played RuneScape and quit when they got to level 70-something, the most frequent complaint I observed was the general unwillingness of people to 'grind' their way up. Given a choice between spending hours sat at a computer screen getting one level after another, they'd rather play something else. If Jagex opened the doors to RWT completely and made a very clear transaction between real money spent and XP in-game received (although some argue such transactions still exist now, it's not made clear and certainly not advertised as such), it would be very appealing to those people who just want to do all the stuff maxed players can do, without the half-of-your-childhood journey to get there.

I don't support RWT necessarily, I'm just saying that it's not entirely discursive to only mention the people that quit because of SoF. Grinding on the other hand, and this links with the skillcapes, remains an incredibly unpopular feature of the game amongst people who don't play it. You might reflect on that and say, "[bleep] them, this game isn't their thing", but that is a problem for Jagex, as it would be a problem for any successful company in their position.

#51
Arcley
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I don't support RWT necessarily, I'm just saying that it's not entirely discursive to only mention the people that quit because of SoF.

I've never ever seen anyone praise the game for RWT. It always goes like this:

RS is still alive? Cool, they even added some interesting updates to modernise it! Oh.. nevermind they have microtransactions, knew there was a catch.

Grinding on the other hand, and this links with the skillcapes, remains an incredibly unpopular feature of the game amongst people who don't play it.

This is true but increasing xp rates in non pay-to-win ways is a far superior way to improve the game.

#52
Ammako
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Solomon's General Store is something I had wanted them to release for a few years now.

#53
Alg
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I remember those posts. Whilst I don't remember the figure I'm pretty certain it wasn't much more than 300k.

Wasn't it 200k?

#54
InsaneChef
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I don't see how solomons is much different from add-ons in pc/console games except they add cosmetic changes to existing items instead of half the game.
Runescape player since 6th November, 2003
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#55
Jonanananas
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I remember those posts. Whilst I don't remember the figure I'm pretty certain it wasn't much more than 300k.

Wasn't it 200k?


I've seen player counts over 200k pretty often about two years ago or so...

#56
Arceus
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This is entirely Jagex's fault. Server and bandwidth fees decrease every year, and the number of shards possible per server increases every year. One or two solid updates a month like was done years and years ago could easily maintain the game. IVP is greedy, plain and simple.

Yeah... No.

If Jagex has done anything wrong, it's that they never really adapted to changes in the game landscape. They were a very successful freemium MMO back when there weren't really any other freemium MMOs, nowadays you can find hundreds of games using the same model, but with better technology and gameplay behind them, and multiplayer games are omnipresent. Bigger MMOs than Runescape are finding that the subscription model isn't sustainable anymore.

They got complacent with their status as the "number one free game" and the rest of the world overtook them.


Most certainly, remember this?

Reading the recently released FAQ, the answer does not seem to be in the affirmative. The response to one of the questions you pose regarding the remaining lifetime of the free game beings "We don’t need to recall all of the free benefits, do we?" [4]. While it is true that RuneScape has many free benefits, we urge you, Mr. Gerhard, not to be lulled into complacency. The Golden Joystick Awards and the Guinness World Record for the largest MMPORG, which is currently held by Jagex, are prestigious honors, and RuneScape is not the only competitor on the stage. Other games will begin to create more free content with the intent of earning those awards themselves, and if Jagex continues to cut free content, it is reasonable to assume at some point that the games will swap places. You have described the free to play community as "bustling" [5]; do you want it to remain this way?


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#57
Blutters
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In every one of these threads related to SGS the element of the player base who played to earn high-profile [mostly] cosmetic outfits is under or mis represented. Me, namely. That's why I care so little these days about how XP is being devalued... My goal of gameplay has long since been torched.

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#58
999134
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Might be slightly off topic, but related to what muggi said, I would argue the -lack- of high cost/level armor is now hurting the game, torva/divines etc are now so cheap and not that much better, that you have little to strive for. The new POP gear does not fix this like I hoped it would, just brings in another Pvp gear type armor, perhaps very expensive to regularly use, but out of nobodies price range.
Item goals are a big part of runescape, and aside from rares, there is nothing to aim for. So many people are now maxed also, and it takes little time compared to the past, that no 99s feel special to anyone, as everyone else already has them. I am really hoping the new skills are like 10k xp per hour...
Rather than rs being too grindy and chasing people away, I would say how common everything is that drives people away.

Also you may not like it, but rwt values on armour are also pathetic currently, how many people would rather spend 60$ to get full torva/best gear in the game, rather than weeks at one of the highest requirement bosses. This was less of a problem when the best armor was 1000$, as few people would/could spend that on a game, but 60$ is the price of a few SOF spins,and is well within children asking parents to spend on a game with little suspicion.... (used price from the ge spammer bots btw, so might be even less than 60$)
Check it out, huge amount of effort has gone into this massive mod!
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#59
muggiwhplar
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Might be slightly off topic, but related to what muggi said, I would argue the -lack- of high cost/level armor is now hurting the game, torva/divines etc are now so cheap and not that much better, that you have little to strive for. The new POP gear does not fix this like I hoped it would, just brings in another Pvp gear type armor, perhaps very expensive to regularly use, but out of nobodies price range.
Item goals are a big part of runescape, and aside from rares, there is nothing to aim for. So many people are now maxed also, and it takes little time compared to the past, that no 99s feel special to anyone, as everyone else already has them. I am really hoping the new skills are like 10k xp per hour...
Rather than rs being too grindy and chasing people away, I would say how common everything is that drives people away.

Also you may not like it, but rwt values on armour are also pathetic currently, how many people would rather spend 60$ to get full torva/best gear in the game, rather than weeks at one of the highest requirement bosses. This was less of a problem when the best armor was 1000$, as few people would/could spend that on a game, but 60$ is the price of a few SOF spins,and is well within children asking parents to spend on a game with little suspicion.... (used price from the ge spammer bots btw, so might be even less than 60$)


I think RS has sort of gone past the point of no return. The general "play style" towards the game has changed too much, in a negative direction IMO. There isn't much to do for "fun" anymore. It's not like you can get rich, get the best gear, and "retire" by playing Castle Wars all day like you could in the past. Like I said, regardless of how fun something is-- if it doesn't offer some sort of useful reward or if it's an "XP Waste," then it's instantly dead content.

A friend asked me, "What would you do if you got a comp cape?" I told him I'd probably quit. I think most people who max out suffer similar feelings-- they realize that all the "fun" is the journey towards the goals, and not the goals themselves. Which is the opposite of what it was in the past, or at least the goals were so vastly out of reach (read: maxing), that they never actually finished the journey and therefore either gave up out of boredom, or never quit having fun.

But we probably wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place if the game wasn't entirely based on grinding and the principle of "you can't have fun until you bore yourself to tears for X hours!"

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#60
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Oi, Jagex... wan some customers back?

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