High profile players banned

[Thus]

No matter how easy or fun you try to make something, people will always try to cheat it.

I hardly call 5k cwars games easy or fun. I hate botting and have never botted, but 5k games is ridiculous and I hardly doubt anyone besides ~500 people would complain if it was lowered. Jagex has done more controversial things in the past that harmed more people.

 

It's the only thing that keeps me and many others from trimming. Instead of putting something that takes skill to accomplish, they put in a time waster.

[Kimberly]

No matter how easy or fun you try to make something, people will always try to cheat it.

I hardly call 5k cwars games easy or fun.

 

That's true for a lot of people...but it doesn't really address bruno's point. People will often seek the easiest way out regardless of how much they enjoy something. Just because you wouldn't doesn't really change that fact. Even if they cut the requirement in half that's still an ungodly amount of play time and people will complain that it's still too many games, etc etc etc etc.

[Ginger_Warrior]

If they did reduce it, the rationale would have be that the 5K CW cape is too much and it's no longer reasonable to make trimmed capes require them. If they did that, they could go far further than simply halving it, and I'd hope they would because even 500 games is around 200 hours gametime which is more than enough.

 

In any case, there's people out there who simply don't like CW or don't have any interest in playing it. So why make them? I can understand the trimmed requirements which people achieve on their own, but you're asking a group of a random strangers to respect that this one person only wants to play the game so they can get a fancy cape. It isn't going to work, no matter how much you try and dress it, and people will AFK/bot it.

 

Competitive games like CW should just be left as "competition for competition's" sake. There shouldn't be any onus to play them, except for the sheer enjoyment of it.

[RSBDavid]

They could just change it to 500 or 5000 minigames overall. This would open up places like Soul Wars, Pest Control, Conquest, Barrows, etc

[Fallstar]

The simplest solution I've seen proposed is to change 5k games into a lower number of tickets, say 1k.

 

As well as reducing the length of time that the cwars requirement takes, this would encourage people to play rather than loaf, as by winning games (and getting more tickets) they are making faster progress towards trim than simply loafing and therefore having a lower chance of their team winning.

[Scherzo]

One of the problems with the cw requirement (apart from that it's so much larger than any of the other trim requirements) is that it doesn't require you to make an effort. In my opinion, changing the requirement to some number of cw wins instead of just games participated be an improvement. You wouldn't be able to loaf through games, and a bot would not outmatch a skilled player.

[strilmus]

my issue with that is that winning isn't equal for all players (at any given moment, across all players; as opposed to comparing players from different points in time) as wins are reliant on having somebody worse than you present. for instance, i can play any connect four game to a win or draw since i learned how the game was solved, but if somebody else knows how to do it, and if it was a requirement to win games in the burthrope games room, if everybody knew said technique, nobody would win ever, and they'd have to start compromising with each other to succeed.

 

i'm not saying that kind of thing is guaranteed to happen in castle wars or such a scenario would realistically happen but frankly it's just not a thing that i would want to get into

 

in fact, it's the larger issue with including castle wars to begin with. yes, it's fun, and a classic, but frankly, that kind of thing should be its OWN kind of personal achievement, and anything beyond the few games the task system asks for is a bit...absurd. it sounds like an idea from the made up requirements board. play 5000 games. just an arbitrary requirement that doesn't signify any sort of landmark besides a number. it's almost as pointless as level 99!

 

(i'm half joking there)

 

there are many other things to do in the game, and they would be better standards to work with

[JeRambo]

Just change it to 1,000 games, so I'm just about done. :).

[Ginger_Warrior]

there are many other things to do in the game, and they would be better standards to work with

Yeah, I mean there's another issue with the 5K games requirement, or even a 1K games requirement.

• Does it tell us they've won a certain amount of games in CW? No;
  
• Does it tell us how many kills/flag captures they've made in CW? No;
  
• Does it tell us they're any good at playing CW? No;
  
• Does it tell us they even enjoyed playing 5K games of CW? No.
  

It's completely meaningless.

[Hajutze]

Just go with damage dealed ? 5k kills ~35k damage or so for example.

[brunokiller]

Competitive games like CW should just be left as "competition for competition's" sake. There shouldn't be any onus to play them, except for the sheer enjoyment of it.

 

I agree with this. Castle Wars loafers ruin it and there's no clear way to get rid of them, except for removing the incentive to loaf. I believe Castle Wars should be played only for fun, not rewards.

[Viv]

oo damage dealt or flags captured requirement :D

[brunokiller]

Yeah, I mean there's another issue with the 5K games requirement, or even a 1K games requirement.

• Does it tell us they've won a certain amount of games in CW? No;
  
• Does it tell us how many kills/flag captures they've made in CW? No;
  
• Does it tell us they're any good at playing CW? No;
  
• Does it tell us they even enjoyed playing 5K games of CW? No.
  

It's completely meaningless.

 

[3tarluap]

It has always been hilarious to me that Alkan aka Number1 Boss has maxed his second account in less time then the 5k cw games takes, and he had not even specifically set out to do it as fast as possible. If done even more "efficiently", you could possibly get a second 2496 account in the time 5k cw games takes.

 

While I understand why some of these banned players botted cw, I still blame them, not jagex. Yes, imo the 5k cw games req is beyond ridiculous, but that does not mean botting it is the answer. But hopefully this will open Jagex eyes to how stupid that req is.

[Platinum_Myr]

But the more ridiculous or grinding it is, the more people will attempt to cheat.

[RSBDavid]

It has always been hilarious to me that Alkan aka Number1 Boss has maxed his second account in less time then the 5k cw games takes, and he had not even specifically set out to do it as fast as possible. If done even more "efficiently", you could possibly get a second 2496 account in the time 5k cw games takes.

 

While I understand why some of these banned players botted cw, I still blame them, not jagex. Yes, imo the 5k cw games req is beyond ridiculous, but that does not mean botting it is the answer. But hopefully this will open Jagex eyes to how stupid that req is.

 

It is easy to max in under 100 days played if you manage to *somehow* get over 1B on your newb account to do the faster and expensive methods of training on certain skills as well as gear to do combat skills.

[tips48]

Loyal was a scammer who I'm so glad was kicked out of Titans Revolution. 'Nuff said.

[lordkafei]

...

 

Basically I am not excusing players, people who cheat deserve their ban however the fact that half the playerbase is cheating does show massive game design failure.

 

...

 

What it shows is that “half the playerbase” is playing the wrong game and are too stubborn / stupid to proactively address their situation.

[Auror]

One of these banned players told me some names of some players, who have botted 5k cw games, or are still botting, and which are still not banned.

 

Also, talking about how meaningless the 5k cw game requirement is is too late now. It's not like that Jagex is going to remove that requirement anymore, that would be unfair towards those people, who have legitly loafed those games. And, let us be honest, without the 5k CW Game req the Trimmed Comp wouldn't be any special because it wouldn't be that rare anymore.

[Ginger_Warrior]

There's nothing special about "loafing" Castle Wars games. At all. It requires zero skill, practically zero attention and practically zero effort. If you call these things 'achievements', then you really need to develop some perspective, because you diminish real gaming achievements.

[Auror]

Ginger Warrior, it's not like that the only way to get those 5k cw games is to loaf them.

 

One could actually play 5k CW games, so, then it would require = attention, effort, and skill in order to win games. Would 5k CW games then be an achievement?

[Ginger_Warrior]

Of course it would, but it's a moot point because that isn't the case. I'm sure there are a few players who have genuinely played five thousand games of Castle Wars, but let's get real; the vast majority of those with trimmed completionist capes have not. It makes a mockery of those who have honestly played five thousand games.

[muggiwhplar]

It could be argued that the loafers worked harder since they clearly don't enjoy CW enough to participate in it, whereas the "genuine" players probably had a lot of fun and therefore wouldn't consider it "work."

 

/devil's advocate

[Auror]

There are many requirements which can be considered as meaningless and useless, but they are requirements now, and we have to deal with them. They will never ever change them, so talking about them is useless and meaningless too.

 

And no, the 5K CW game req is not an excuse to bot, so straighten up and either play or loaf them legitly or gtfo. (Not directed at Ginger Warrior, just to the public)

[Ginger_Warrior]

It could be argued that the loafers worked harder since they clearly don't enjoy CW enough to participate in it, whereas the "genuine" players probably had a lot of fun and therefore wouldn't consider it "work."

 

/devil's advocate

Heh... let's not drag up the whole "fun vs work" thing from two years back. No one escaped that argument looking good.

 

There are many requirements which can be considered as meaningless and useless, but they are requirements now, and we have to deal with them. They will never ever change them, so talking about them is useless and meaningless too.

 

And no, the 5K CW game req is not an excuse to bot, so straighten up and either play or loaf them legitly or gtfo. (Not directed at Ginger Warrior, just to the public)

You seem very possessed on the arguing about the process rather than the consequences. They said the same about Pest Control all those years ago and, bang, look what happened. It's not like we're talking hundreds of hours of dev time here; these are widely-accepted issues with very common sense solutions that take relatively little time to fix. They're what other people have called the "small touches" in other threads, but aside from a few exceptional JMods, Jagex in general seem so piss poor at doing them.

 

PoP being one of few examples of them getting the small details right, pre-EoC waterfiends being worst example I can think of.