Og Blog: Upcoming Changes to the EoC

[jayc3399]

The use of emblems or widgets would let joe134 use strength gems while ben348 can use hit gems to balance things out. Maybe jerry987 wants some of each to get a little of both.

 

That doesn't help the basic problem, everyone will min/max until they get the best setup. We can already choose an offensive setup (2 hand) or a defensive (shield). Any offensive boosts through smithing would be attached to a 2 hander and defensive boosts to 1 handers.

 

You missed 90% of what I said. Your talking the old model where everyone just brute forced the system for max offence. Why can't they build a system where x boss (bandos for example) is a zerker style where he pumps out massive dmg if you don't take defensive gear and another boss ie Sara that has huge defence so you need hit chance and zammy has a weakness to critical hits or something where you can grab something else.

 

Open you mind up a bit and realize you don't need a system where brute forcing everything is the best way to do stuff. "Hurr me foot ball player me smush everything!!!!! Rawr"

 

Why not have something like arma be a tactical boss and you need agility and movement to survive like Sara used to be.

[Estoc]

The use of emblems or widgets would let joe134 use strength gems while ben348 can use hit gems to balance things out. Maybe jerry987 wants some of each to get a little of both.

 

That doesn't help the basic problem, everyone will min/max until they get the best setup. We can already choose an offensive setup (2 hand) or a defensive (shield). Any offensive boosts through smithing would be attached to a 2 hander and defensive boosts to 1 handers.

 

You missed 90% of what I said. Your talking the old model where everyone just brute forced the system for max offence. Why can't they build a system where x boss (bandos for example) is a zerker style where he pumps out massive dmg if you don't take defensive gear and another boss ie Sara that has huge defence so you need hit chance and zammy has a weakness to critical hits or something where you can grab something else.

 

Open you mind up a bit and realize you don't need a system where brute forcing everything is the best way to do stuff. "Hurr me foot ball player me smush everything!!!!! Rawr"

 

Why not have something like arma be a tactical boss and you need agility and movement to survive like Sara used to be.

 

What I was getting at was that for a given boss everyone will use the same tactics more or less. Everyone will take defence gems to Bandos and crit gems to Zamorak. I don't want a system where everything is brute forced, I just didn't see a solution in your previous post. This fleshed it out a lot more though and I would love to see things like berserker bosses with low defence, the only exception being agility bosses like pre-eoc Saradomin, that was just a pain.

[jayc3399]

Lol yeah running around wasn't quite what I meant. But I'll elaborate later.

[Blutters]

I hope they make more Chaotic-infused weapons. Godswords and Zamorakian Spears for starters. I asked for this during beta and still think it'd be a good idea to recycle these weapons rather than just leave them as inferior as they are (even if it's only a 5 level gap). I'd like to see the entire black part on my ZGS replaced with Chaotic material!

I'm going to make an educated guess and say that the [Right-handed] Chaotic Claw will be equal to the Abyssal Vine Whip since they're both tier 80 fastest slashing weapons, but with a bonus crit chance and degrading. The Off-hand should also have a crit chance though. Will that make the set better for Momentum slaying than AVW+EEE?

 

Also I'm hoping J will continue to fill out tier 80 weapons. They'll still be relevant as long as tier 90 is difficult to get, and I assume that the more desirable weapons like 2H swords and mauls will be relatively more difficult as well, like how Primal weapons begin with daggers and end with spears and 2H swords.

[Sylpheed]

 

I think the chaotic addition to claws is a good step. I personally can't wait to see an addition to the spear as well. I would also like to see a one hand chaotic crush weapon to fill in the wholes in that tier.

 

Other than these comments I'm keeping my mouth shut on the issue. It seems that a large amount of the community is whimpering and moaning - if not that, then they are trying to tear down someone else's viewpoints.

 

I'm here regardless of what they do. So long as there is interesting gameplay I have little else to say.

 

I get the feeling that you wouldn't criticise Jagex even if they decided to wipe your stats and delete your bank.

 

As much as I usually agree with your views it's getting tiresome to see that you somehow think yourself better than others for not uttering a bad word about Jagex.

 

If you love them, that's fine, but snide remarks about people that have genuine gripes with the game is just petty.

 

I get the feeling a lot of the fan base are whining little [bleep]es. I think making the armour increase exponentially is an awesome idea and should have been done ages ago. There is no reason for Nex or GWD to be available for people without the appropriate gear/skills. And GWD is not supposed to be soloable in barrows/dragon gear.

 

To me it seems that's all they're doing, they will make higher end content actually a bit more difficult - this has been long overdue. My personal best in bandos GWD was more than 600 kc solo in barrows gear, that is hardly the way it should be and even tho I don't have the money nor the love of grinding to get nex' sets i am happy they are getting rebuffed.

 

That is after all the whole point of end game content - to aim it at people who have reached end game content... Well done Jagex, I salute thee (brb with TETSU armour, see ya at nex)

 

 

Whilst I agree that bosses are too easy now, there are so many problems with what Jagex are doing.

 

-Pre EoC, bosses were still rediculously easy, yet people didn't seem bothered by it at all.

 

-Nex may be the hardest boss in the game currently (not counting KK) and that is a problem. She drops level 80 gear which isn't end game content. This creates major problems for releasing 90+ gear in the future.

 

-If you need the absolute best gear available in the game to go bossing, and said armour isn't attainable by players that can use it, that IS a problem. If you need Nex gear to kill Nex then that is simply very bad game design.

 

-Everything with the exception of discontinued items loses value over time as better items are released. Jagex is artificially extending the lifespan of these items because they have nothing to release to justify the falling prices.

 

Of course Nex armour shouldn't be available to everyone, but it should at least be a reachable goal.

 

Of course, this is probably all just redundant conjecture as, knowing Jagex, when they say you'll need the best gear to tackle the buffed bosses the reality will be very different.

[phillyduck]

 

I think the chaotic addition to claws is a good step. I personally can't wait to see an addition to the spear as well. I would also like to see a one hand chaotic crush weapon to fill in the wholes in that tier.

 

Other than these comments I'm keeping my mouth shut on the issue. It seems that a large amount of the community is whimpering and moaning - if not that, then they are trying to tear down someone else's viewpoints.

 

I'm here regardless of what they do. So long as there is interesting gameplay I have little else to say.

 

I get the feeling that you wouldn't criticise Jagex even if they decided to wipe your stats and delete your bank.

 

As much as I usually agree with your views it's getting tiresome to see that you somehow think yourself better than others for not uttering a bad word about Jagex.

 

If you love them, that's fine, but snide remarks about people that have genuine gripes with the game is just petty.

 

I get the feeling a lot of the fan base are whining little [bleep]es. I think making the armour increase exponentially is an awesome idea and should have been done ages ago. There is no reason for Nex or GWD to be available for people without the appropriate gear/skills. And GWD is not supposed to be soloable in barrows/dragon gear.

 

To me it seems that's all they're doing, they will make higher end content actually a bit more difficult - this has been long overdue. My personal best in bandos GWD was more than 600 kc solo in barrows gear, that is hardly the way it should be and even tho I don't have the money nor the love of grinding to get nex' sets i am happy they are getting rebuffed.

 

That is after all the whole point of end game content - to aim it at people who have reached end game content... Well done Jagex, I salute thee (brb with TETSU armour, see ya at nex)

 

 

Whilst I agree that bosses are too easy now, there are so many problems with what Jagex are doing.

 

-Pre EoC, bosses were still rediculously easy, yet people didn't seem bothered by it at all.

 

-Nex may be the hardest boss in the game currently (not counting KK) and that is a problem. She drops level 80 gear which isn't end game content. This creates major problems for releasing 90+ gear in the future.

 

-If you need the absolute best gear available in the game to go bossing, and said armour isn't attainable by players that can use it, that IS a problem. If you need Nex gear to kill Nex then that is simply very bad game design.

 

-Everything with the exception of discontinued items loses value over time as better items are released. Jagex is artificially extending the lifespan of these items because they have nothing to release to justify the falling prices.

 

Of course Nex armour shouldn't be available to everyone, but it should at least be a reachable goal.

 

Of course, this is probably all just redundant conjecture as, knowing Jagex, when they say you'll need the best gear to tackle the buffed bosses the reality will be very different.

 

Balancing the game is rather difficult I assume, or Jagex is too lazy. As a returning veteran player from before EoC to jumping into EoC there are a lot of balance issues that I could probably elaborate at a later time. I like this post because it does bring up "no brainer" ideas and points. I'll probably have more to say once I get into boss fighting and when they change the healing abililties

[Urza285]

End game in runescape - because of its pure lack of central focus on one aspect of the game; namely pvm, is what it is. The end of the game is nex for pvmers. After that you start getting into all that pseudo meta end-game... You know those videos where the player is dancing jad, spam clicking veng and waiting for it to pop. Then once it does he lets jad hit a +900. Eventually that player ends up killing him purely with veng, yeah that stuff... That's the runescape version of end game. True end game for pvmers is nex and eventually the kalphite king.

[Quyneax]

-Pre EoC, bosses were still rediculously easy, yet people didn't seem bothered by it at all.

 

-Nex may be the hardest boss in the game currently (not counting KK) and that is a problem. She drops level 80 gear which isn't end game content. This creates major problems for releasing 90+ gear in the future.

 

-If you need the absolute best gear available in the game to go bossing, and said armour isn't attainable by players that can use it, that IS a problem. If you need Nex gear to kill Nex then that is simply very bad game design.

 

-Everything with the exception of discontinued items loses value over time as better items are released. Jagex is artificially extending the lifespan of these items because they have nothing to release to justify the falling prices.

 

Of course Nex armour shouldn't be available to everyone, but it should at least be a reachable goal.

 

Of course, this is probably all just redundant conjecture as, knowing Jagex, when they say you'll need the best gear to tackle the buffed bosses the reality will be very different.

Bosses were easy but not quite as easy. GWD pre-EoC has always required a good stack of brews, restores and such, which are fairly costly. Now, only pray pots are required, which makes the running costs of bossing so much lower. Rejuvinate heals more in an hour than two or three yaks of food would: 40% health per minute, where one rocktail is 1860 lp (usually about 30% of your health, but can be as low as 20%).

 

Nex is the hardest boss in the game, but not very hard requirements-wise. She can be killed with something relatively simple like ganodermic (void even), farseer kite, master wand, royal crossbow. That's maybe 15m in gear, a bit of dg training (mind you, only 200k tokens) and some quest unlocks for curses and stuff. It's not very difficult to make a boss which requires higher-tier gear to do well at. Releasing level 90 gear is the last of your worries.

 

I think the reasoning for buffing claws is that tds totally suck right now, and they want to reinvigorate a previously popular boss. Personally I think the problem is more with the strict enforcement of single-classing we have since EoC, but making tds drop something worthwhile is not a bad idea. Claws is one choice. I'd rather have a high effigy rate (one every two hours? with 500k profit?).

 

Nex armour is perfectly reachable. If it wasn't so expensive, people would be complaining there's no fun in gear, because everyone has it maxed anyway. The whole point of having benefits from higher-tier armour in addition to benefits from higher stats is that the armour is also a challenge to obtain. If armour is a quick easy upgrade you just pop in your backpack when you hit that round level, it's not interesting anymore.

[Ginger_Warrior]

Even so, the scale of difficulty between obtaining level 70 armour and level 80 isn't reflected. If Nex armour was truly end-game material, i.e. level 99, we would all be singing from the same hymn sheet, but we're only talking ten levels here. I could be really flippant and include Barrows into the mix of level 70 armour, and Barrows being as easily obtainable as it is (everyone has multiple Barrows sets, a very small minority have Nex, let's not beat about the bush) would make that gulf even larger. But we're only talking 70 -> 80 there.

 

There was a fundamental flaw in releasing Nex as end-game content, and only having her drop what would transpire to be t80 armour. If they weren't dragging the game out as much as they are, and released Nex at t99, there wouldn't be an issue. Now they look set to repeat that mistake with KK being PvM end-game at t90.

[aerendil]

Thing is the only way to actually make GOOD money anymore is to flip, or to nex/gwd.... so many monsters which used to be good are now nerfed... dks are now the hardest boss in the game, nex is now easy as (bleep) i've done 2 hr nex trips with absolute ease..

 

THE only gwd boss which you are limited at is arma, and the only limit there is prayer, as he doesn't drop any... i agree that gwd NEEDS a boost.

 

it really does, it is incredibly easy compared to how it was pre eoc, where the only boss you could camp for 6 hrs solo was kinddddddaaaa bandos, zammy/sara solo would eat you for breakfast and arma was a pill.

 

 

EDIT: I agree strongly with the above post.... 80 defence requirement on gear is ridiculously low, and no one who has earned nex will have only 80 defence if they did it pvming... It should be lvl 90/95 gear requirement imo, to reflect the difficult of getting it. You can't nex with 80 stats, to any effectiveness.

[999134]

Ha.... Before I quit and gave away bank when EOC came out I had around 10b in crashed gear (70b elys 100b divines, torva/pernix/virtus sets).

Also marks my first post in awhile :P, had to recover my TIF account to post.

[jayc3399]

Nex is only "End game" because something better hasn't been released. As new things come out you will see a new progression of end game.

 

The main distinction between RS and other games that focus on an end game model is that RS released the stats with a cap that was never going to grow. You got to the end and thats it. Something like wow, where they release progressively harder contet for a while then go and release a new set of levels resets the system on a regular interval. With Rs you can't do that, or skills become meaningless as you finish them off and unlocking new stuff can only be done through things like quests because they don't want to, nor should they, increase the level cap.

[Alg]

EDIT: I agree strongly with the above post.... 80 defence requirement on gear is ridiculously low, and no one who has earned nex will have only 80 defence if they did it pvming... It should be lvl 90/95 gear requirement imo, to reflect the difficult of getting it. You can't nex with 80 stats, to any effectiveness.

This. It's a mistake that they never really learned to stop making: look at dragon equipment, by the time you can kill any of those monsters you're most likely much higher than level 60. Some of them even require gear better than dragon to fight them (TDs, QBD, miths). Smithing/crafting are other examples that everyone has gone over hundreds of times.

[strilmus]

forget even fighting TDs, i kind of doubt level 60s have the stats needed to start wgs

 

QBD drops cbow parts so i'm pretty sure the kite is meant to be another cosmetic item, not that i agree with it being misused that way but there it is

 

miths are actually hilariously easy now if the bot gangs are any indication

 

i still think we shouldn't be cannibalizing our lower tiers of equipment for the higher end, and "chaoticing" other equipment would make it more difficult for lower levels to afford the equipment types that they need to function at full capacity, especially since many midlevel methods of earning money have been steadily dropping while other equipment prices have risen drastically

[Sylpheed]

Even so, the scale of difficulty between obtaining level 70 armour and level 80 isn't reflected. If Nex armour was truly end-game material, i.e. level 99, we would all be singing from the same hymn sheet, but we're only talking ten levels here. I could be really flippant and include Barrows into the mix of level 70 armour, and Barrows being as easily obtainable as it is (everyone has multiple Barrows sets, a very small minority have Nex, let's not beat about the bush) would make that gulf even larger. But we're only talking 70 -> 80 there.

 

There was a fundamental flaw in releasing Nex as end-game content, and only having her drop what would transpire to be t80 armour. If they weren't dragging the game out as much as they are, and released Nex at t99, there wouldn't be an issue. Now they look set to repeat that mistake with KK being PvM end-game at t90.

 

This is exactly what I meant in my previous post. Nex's difficulty in relation to the boss NPC's below her and the gap in armour tier between them being only 10 levels is just poor design.

[Hedgehog]

The model I would use if I were creating a game looks like this:

 

Gear below level 60: smithed/crafted/fletched. Ammo is dropped by monsters.

Gear level 60 and above: obtained from bosses. 1 boss for weapons, 1 for armor. Each class gets its own boss, so 6 bosses per tier. They can be combined, like the skeletal trio, if necessary.

Perhaps they drop upgrade kits that you use on the previous tier to advance it. I.e. to get level 70 gear, you need level 50 armor and levels 60 and 70 upgrade kits.

I like the idea of quests giving some between tier items, or maybe they unlock certain bosses.

The idea is that you need to work through a progression in order to get the gear you want.

[aspeeder]

The model I would use if I were creating a game looks like this:

 

Gear below level 60: smithed/crafted/fletched. Ammo is dropped by monsters.

Gear level 60 and above: obtained from bosses. 1 boss for weapons, 1 for armor. Each class gets its own boss, so 6 bosses per tier. They can be combined, like the skeletal trio, if necessary.

Perhaps they drop upgrade kits that you use on the previous tier to advance it. I.e. to get level 70 gear, you need level 50 armor and levels 60 and 70 upgrade kits.

I like the idea of quests giving some between tier items, or maybe they unlock certain bosses.

The idea is that you need to work through a progression in order to get the gear you want.

So the PoP armor wouldn't fit into your theoretical game design?

[Alg]

Another system might be to have equipment for every 10 levels be craftable, with items between those tiers from quests, bosses, and minigames. So level 90 gear would be relatively accessible, and boss hunters would be able to get level 95 items.

 

Mostly because I don't think boss hunters should have *all* of the rewards :razz:

[Hedgehog]

It would, but the rewards wouldn't be armor. It could unlock bosses that live at the end, or it could just be used to make high level potions or food. Anything like that would be fine. Pop seems to be enjoyable regardless of rewards so I don't think nerfing them would be a huge deal.

[Platinum_Myr]

Hedgehog is right, the problem with craftable gear all the way up is because it creates a huge divide in terms of who can do what, because the xp curve is really ridiculous.

 

I wouldn't mind having some small attachments ala gems be created. But the real issue is the crazy xp curve in rs.

[Hedgehog]

Yeah, if you had to craft level 99 gear, most players would be 99 melee (yeah combine attack and strength), magic, or ranged before they could make the gear, which is pointless.

[strilmus]

that was the main issue with suddenly deciding that runecrafting was the skill to make magic gear without any system support other than a patch job that was only done because a huge part of the playerbase had to beat it into jagex that they wanted it, which was then later nerfed because somehow a zero profit activity was too good

 

thinking back on that just makes me more paranoid

[Alg]

Yeah, if you had to craft level 99 gear, most players would be 99 melee (yeah combine attack and strength), magic, or ranged before they could make the gear, which is pointless.

I'm assuming that if they overhauled crafting skills in that way, they'd make it so that they were reasonable to train alongside your combat skill of choice. As they are now, though, not an option :razz:

[jayc3399]

There is no reason you can't find a balance. In wow it isn't uncommon to find one or two slots with bsi pieces from skilling.

 

 

[muggiwhplar]

Ehh they really should've just overhauled everything and made RS3 instead of EOC. Too much of the game is unbalanced and broken beyond repair as is.

 

I don't think Jagex even has a goal or vision of what RS "should" look like. They're just basing all of their decisions off of what "seems right" or whatever appeases the loudest group of players.