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God Of Lego

RuneScape: Old and New

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Mod Mark

 

Over the last few months, we’ve been more active than ever on our own forums, Twitter Facebook, , YouTube, Reddit, and all the fan sites, reading your thoughts regarding our recent posts and updates. I’m thrilled to see so many people talking about what first made - and still makes -RuneScape special. It’s clear that many feel passionately about older aspects of the game; we're certainly listening to everything you're saying.

 

There are many suggestions, including some radical new ideas. These range greatly in scope: there have been requests for new versions of the game where everyone starts from scratch; servers that run the old combat system; complete single-player versions of the game with the option to pick and choose updates; and a return to RuneScape as it was in 2006. Some of you have asked for servers with more specific special conditions: no Grand Exchange; higher risk or old wildy; old Bounty Hunter; permadeath; old magic shortbow specs; old 2h melee dominance...everything up to “bring back the old three-hit-pk-anywhere system from Classic days," if you remember back that far!

 

In particular, there are many ideas focused around your love of the old combat system and all its even-earlier incarnations, and your level of passion and interest speaks volumes. Huge thanks for taking the time and effort to tell us how you feel.

 

It’s been a fascinating read, and everyone has their own opinion on what was good, bad, ugly or epic about older versions of the game. Right now, we’re looking into all of your comments, suggestions and ideas: specifically about combat, both old and new. Were committed to making this year something special, and we really want look into those ideas that you feel most strongly about.

 

Researching and exploring these ideas take time. With all the other great content we have planned this year, what we can promise right now is to look into these things with all the energy and enthusiasm we have. Expect more information about this on the 20th of February during our next Q&A session: Around the Campfire with..._

 

Don’t forget that we are always working on improvements to the core game. We are still refining the EoC based on your feedback and aiming for at least one significant batch of improvements a month. I know it’s frustrating for some of you that we still need to tweak it, but we want to make it as great as we believe it can be by working with you. If you’d like more info on the changes and updates we're making in February, watch out for an Og Blog and February's Behind the Scenes article, both of which are coming soon.

 

Thanks for reading. If you want to reply here with your own ideas or thoughts regarding this subject, please do so. We plan to keep this thread open for 24 hours and I’ll be posting replies to your comments whenever I can. After that, we can get back into the research work mentioned above. If you’ve posted elsewhere, we will find it and give it the full attention it deserves.

 

Thanks for reading,

 

Mod Mark

 

Design Director – RuneScape

 

QFC: 14-15-503-64217453

 

-

 

Posted because its interesting to read and interesting to see the outcome.

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What irritates me about posts like these is the obviously false nature of what's being said. Mod Mark is adopting a very conciliatory tone, and mentioning many things that players have said, but he obviously has no actual intention of changing anything about where Runescape has been headed. He wants players to feel like they're being "listened to" without bothering to do any of the listening.

 

Tell it like it is, Mark. If you believe that the players are wrong about what makes the game fun, then state it outright like the Diablo III team did.

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Alphanos

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Talk, just talk. They're not going to do anything about it.


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I expect its just talk. But its better than no response. And if they cannot walk the walk. It only damages their image more. If jagex ever went bust. God help Mod Mark and Mod MMG get a job in the game industry afterwards

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I doubt they're really going to do anything. People have been complaining about "how much better RS was before" after pretty much every update since the G.E. was introduced. The game is going to evolve and move forward. Players either have to evolve with it or move out of the way.

 

That said, I think the EoC was released way too early. Something that big really shouldn't have to be "tweaked" (read: fixed) every other week.

 

Also, I really doubt the game is making enough money to run dedicated servers for pre-EoC or pre-G.E. versions of the game.

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Also, I really doubt the game is making enough money to run dedicated servers for pre-EoC or pre-G.E. versions of the game.

 

Wait, what? It doesnt need any kind of developing as they have done everything already. Obv we would pay p2p also so that's just pure profit for them for doing nothing.


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They can update both servers probably, Just create algorithms and formulas to convert each new item to a state where its just as good in pre EoC.

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Also, I really doubt the game is making enough money to run dedicated servers for pre-EoC or pre-G.E. versions of the game.

Wait, what? It doesnt need any kind of developing as they have done everything already. Obv we would pay p2p also so that's just pure profit for them for doing nothing.

No, but they do need money to run the server in the first place. Considering how many servers have been removed lately, it seems unlikely that they would want to retask any more, especially for ones running a different game from the rest.


 

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To be

Also, I really doubt the game is making enough money to run dedicated servers for pre-EoC or pre-G.E. versions of the game.

Wait, what? It doesnt need any kind of developing as they have done everything already. Obv we would pay p2p also so that's just pure profit for them for doing nothing.

No, but they do need money to run the server in the first place. Considering how many servers have been removed lately, it seems unlikely that they would want to retask any more, especially for ones running a different game from the rest.

 

Actually, they can cut down current servers to replace them with pre EoC. Worlds are never full anymore. Theres no money loss.

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People have been complaining the game was better before since the first update.


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I expect its just talk. But its better than no response. And if they cannot walk the walk. It only damages their image more. If jagex ever went bust. God help Mod Mark and Mod MMG get a job in the game industry afterwards

 

I'd rather there be no response.

 

watch out for an Og Blog

 

This really scares me.

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I expect its just talk. But its better than no response. And if they cannot walk the walk. It only damages their image more. If jagex ever went bust. God help Mod Mark and Mod MMG get a job in the game industry afterwards

 

I'd rather there be no response.

 

watch out for an Og Blog

 

This really scares me.

 

Agreed.

 

Also, I really doubt the game is making enough money to run dedicated servers for pre-EoC or pre-G.E. versions of the game.

 

Wait, what? It doesnt need any kind of developing as they have done everything already. Obv we would pay p2p also so that's just pure profit for them for doing nothing.

 

I may disagree with some of Jagex's recent decisions, but the player base drastically underestimates the amount of work involved in maintaining multiple independent versions of the game. What the proper balanced solution is, I'm not sure.


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They better not make these other servers... I'm sorry, but if you make a game then stick to the planand see it through. This is just a horrible stress-fracture from what I can see...




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They should have no problems releasing specific closed off servers. They've been doing it for almost a decade with RSC and even found time to improve on those servers a little bit (still a botting paradise, but at least the chats are connected). They can have two or three RS'06 servers complete with retro graphics and two or three pre-EoC servers. Both will have players start from scratch, neither will be updated except for patching of bugs, and like RSC have their own closed off economies. Like RSC, there'll be a group of players that are committed, but that group grows smaller every year.

 

Then there can be member servers where everyone starts from scratch, RS Reboot servers. I've been suggesting this for years and think it can be very popular. I'd love to see what the game world would be like where there is no F2P bot mining population and no 10 years of economic legacy impacting items and prices. Only question would be how does Solomon and SoF impact such servers. Perhaps a purchase applies to both accounts equally. As it would still be the same game, these servers can be updated the same as the normal servers, only I recommend a 2 week delay on regular updates to catch catastrophic bugs (yes, the main game becomes the beta phase).


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Some things he said is true. People are always complaining of changes, then referencing the past and forgetting the problems the past held.

 

And people talk about reboot servers. How far do you go back? Do you reset when things inevitably get bad again?

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And people talk about reboot servers. How far do you go back? Do you reset when things inevitably get bad again?

 

You don't go back in time. Release it just the same as the current game at the moment. Players that want to start on these servers have to start as a fresh character that's still attached to your main account, just like people wanting to play RSC for the first time had to do.

 

Jagex won't have to reset things when things go "bad". Assuming RS can last for few more years (safe assumption), then depending on the popularity of the first set of reboot servers, they can release a new set of servers where again starting on those means starting with a fresh character. This can mean two, three or maybe four different economic worlds in time. Doubt it would go that far, but it could be possible.

 

This is not a new concept by the way. Most other MMO's had multiple closed off economies where your characters on one server set could not go to other servers. RS was different in that you could hop servers which made for a much larger game world economy. The only exception being the RSC servers whose economy split off when RS2 came out. However, instead of making a separate servers and never updating them (leading to less and less players), Jagex can update these new set of servers alongside the main game as they are still the same game.


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Jagex can update these new set of servers alongside the main game as they are still the same game.

There's no reason they would want to do that.

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I doubt they're really going to do anything. People have been complaining about "how much better RS was before" after pretty much every update since the G.E. was introduced.

People were complaining since before the G.E.

 

Also, servers don't cost that much anymore, which is why Guild Wars 2 has no subscriptions.


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Jagex can update these new set of servers alongside the main game as they are still the same game.

There's no reason they would want to do that.

Why not, it's the same game. Only difference is no character on the server is older than when the server went live. It's literally zero extra effort to update it. Now, they would not need to update the Pre-EoC or RS '06 servers as that'd be an enormous amount of effort since they're essentially two different games.


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Maybe I'm wrong about this (since I have no expertise in IT) but I'll post it anyway:

 

Why do people assume Jagex just has "RS06" lying around on some floppy disk inside their top slide? I mean, the decision to keep RSC was made at the time of the migration, thus they had servers with all the code and works already, it was just a matter of maintaining it. From what I understand, Runescape '06 doesn't. Every part of it has been systematically upgraded and I would be extremely surprised that they could just revert a server back to it with a click of a button. That doesn't mean they won't still have all the assets, but I'd assume they'd have to rebuild it fully, which would mean dev-time taken from actual new content to please a few dedicated people, of which I am almost certain over half would leave within a week since it means people can't train stats like they could in the actual year of 2006 (since everyone starts off lvl 1, that means no stack of food, ores, logs, runes etc to depend upon) and that the things that systematically plague the current RS will exist in the '06 server just as well (botting, gambling and [wagon], elitist behaviour).

 

My 2 cents.

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Maybe I'm wrong about this (since I have no expertise in IT) but I'll post it anyway:

 

Why do people assume Jagex just has "RS06" lying around on some floppy disk inside their top slide? I mean, the decision to keep RSC was made at the time of the migration, thus they had servers with all the code and works already, it was just a matter of maintaining it. From what I understand, Runescape '06 doesn't. Every part of it has been systematically upgraded and I would be extremely surprised that they could just revert a server back to it with a click of a button. That doesn't mean they won't still have all the assets, but I'd assume they'd have to rebuild it fully, which would mean dev-time taken from actual new content to please a few dedicated people, of which I am almost certain over half would leave within a week since it means people can't train stats like they could in the actual year of 2006 (since everyone starts off lvl 1, that means no stack of food, ores, logs, runes etc to depend upon) and that the things that systematically plague the current RS will exist in the '06 server just as well (botting, gambling and [wagon], elitist behaviour).

 

My 2 cents.

 

Yes, that's true. Most people looking for 2006-scape haven't fully thought things through. For example, how many people here remember that fullscreen and variable-resolution modes were only introduced in mid-2008? 2006-scape would be played in a very tiny fixed-size window. People just don't remember it so poorly because large widescreen monitors were much less common then.

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Alphanos

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Maybe I'm wrong about this (since I have no expertise in IT) but I'll post it anyway:

 

Why do people assume Jagex just has "RS06" lying around on some floppy disk inside their top slide? I mean, the decision to keep RSC was made at the time of the migration, thus they had servers with all the code and works already, it was just a matter of maintaining it. From what I understand, Runescape '06 doesn't. Every part of it has been systematically upgraded and I would be extremely surprised that they could just revert a server back to it with a click of a button. That doesn't mean they won't still have all the assets, but I'd assume they'd have to rebuild it fully, which would mean dev-time taken from actual new content to please a few dedicated people, of which I am almost certain over half would leave within a week since it means people can't train stats like they could in the actual year of 2006 (since everyone starts off lvl 1, that means no stack of food, ores, logs, runes etc to depend upon) and that the things that systematically plague the current RS will exist in the '06 server just as well (botting, gambling and [wagon], elitist behaviour).

 

My 2 cents.

Yeah, they should have a copy of a 2006 version; it would really surprise me if they didn't. They might also back up the databases with each update, but I'm not as certain about that. I guess I'm saying that it's certainly possible for them to be able to just load up an old version, but there is a very good possibility that it isn't. If they do, then I hope they never choose to start up 2006 servers. If they don't, that leads back to what you said.

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It would surprise me if they didn't have it too.

Mostly because it just seems obvious to me that companies would keep their older content for archival purposes.

 

Jagex can update these new set of servers alongside the main game as they are still the same game.

There's no reason they would want to do that.

Why not, it's the same game. Only difference is no character on the server is older than when the server went live. It's literally zero extra effort to update it. Now, they would not need to update the Pre-EoC or RS '06 servers as that'd be an enormous amount of effort since they're essentially two different games.

 

They'd have to go through the trouble to edit the content every time to make it function well with both versions of the game, that's why.

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[hide]

Maybe I'm wrong about this (since I have no expertise in IT) but I'll post it anyway:

 

Why do people assume Jagex just has "RS06" lying around on some floppy disk inside their top slide? I mean, the decision to keep RSC was made at the time of the migration, thus they had servers with all the code and works already, it was just a matter of maintaining it. From what I understand, Runescape '06 doesn't. Every part of it has been systematically upgraded and I would be extremely surprised that they could just revert a server back to it with a click of a button. That doesn't mean they won't still have all the assets, but I'd assume they'd have to rebuild it fully, which would mean dev-time taken from actual new content to please a few dedicated people, of which I am almost certain over half would leave within a week since it means people can't train stats like they could in the actual year of 2006 (since everyone starts off lvl 1, that means no stack of food, ores, logs, runes etc to depend upon) and that the things that systematically plague the current RS will exist in the '06 server just as well (botting, gambling and [wagon], elitist behaviour).

 

My 2 cents.

[/hide]

Yeah, they should have a copy of a 2006 version; it would really surprise me if they didn't. They might also back up the databases with each update, but I'm not as certain about that. I guess I'm saying that it's certainly possible for them to be able to just load up an old version, but there is a very good possibility that it isn't. If they do, then I hope they never choose to start up 2006 servers. If they don't, that leads back to what you said.

It would surprise me if they didn't have it too.

Mostly because it just seems obvious to me that companies would keep their older content for archival purposes.

 

I'm sure that Jagex has to be running some serious source control. But that doesn't mean it's a given that they retain full backups of even 6+ year old code, and they almost certainly don't keep repeated large backups of all characters - that'd be a substantial storage expense. Even if they have all of the code saved, that doesn't mean it's as easy as clicking a few buttons to get 2006-era Runescape running again. The client would likely have to be updated due to new versions of Java. The server software would likely have to be updated to run on a new OS, new OS patches, new hardware, maybe even new architectural design for their server infrastructure. All of those updates exist in newer code of course, but fishing out only the key relevant bits with 6+ years of intervening work would be a nightmare. It'd probably be easier to re-do that work from scratch, meaning new bugs and more dev time required to perform the resultant bug fixes.

 

This is all just to get 2006-scape running as it existed in 2006. It wouldn't be long before players started clamoring for them to introduce "just" the most critical improvements since then, like the variable-resolution interface (and engine support). Pretty soon they'd need a dedicated dev team to re-do all kinds of things previously done for the main game, with half the community complaining that they haven't introduced the modern mining rock graphics and the other half complaining that they did introduce the modern tree graphics. It would be a lose-lose situation for Jagex to get into :(.

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Alphanos

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People would still complain even if it was 2006 runescape. Msb spec too overpowered, Maul spec too overpowered, whip too overpowered, barrows too expensive, graphics too shitty, etc.

 

Since day 1, people have always been complaining about something trivial.

 

People are just too damn nostalgic. Now people are now asking Jagex to bring back restricted trade. Seriously? The update that people literally said and agreed was the worst ever? No one complaining ever remembers the bad when looking at the past. I used to have pity for them, but now I have a hard time understanding how blind, or perhaps stupid, they are.

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