Assume Nothing Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 What two consenting adults do is nobody else's business. This is the reductionist argument that means very little. I'll illustrate - two consenting adults, whom are siblings of the same sex, fall in love and enter a relationship... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggiwhplar Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 What two consenting adults do is nobody else's business. This is the reductionist argument that means very little. I'll illustrate - two consenting adults, whom are siblings of the same sex, fall in love and enter a relationship... Why is that anyones business >_> 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omar Posted February 5, 2013 Author Share Posted February 5, 2013 What he said. The primary argument for legalizing anything, the way I see it, is that it doesn't affect anyone else but those involved (affect as in infringe upon property rights and rights to life). The secondary argument is that proposed solutions to the problem are counterproductive anyway. Matt: You want that eh? You want everything good for you. You want everything that's--falls off garbage can Camera guy: Whoa, haha, are you okay dude? Matt: You want anything funny that happens, don't you? Camera guy: still laughing Matt: You want the funny shit that happens here and there, you think it comes out of your [bleep]ing [wagon] pushes garbage can down, don't you? You think it's funny? It comes out of here! running towards Camera guy Camera guy: runs away still laughing Matt: You think the funny comes out of your mother[bleep]ing creativity? Comes out of Satan, mother[bleep]er! nn--ngh! pushes Camera guy down Camera guy: Hoooholy [bleep]! Matt: FUNNY ISN'T REAL! FUNNY ISN'T REAL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assume Nothing Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 EDIT - essentially said that though two consenting adults can have their own freedoms to do whatever to themselves, it doesn't mean that it's within their best interests. But then again, we've had homosexual incestual relationship discussions before. Yeah, my analogy sucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omar Posted February 5, 2013 Author Share Posted February 5, 2013 I still agree with it. You can't know what's in somebody's best interest. 1 Matt: You want that eh? You want everything good for you. You want everything that's--falls off garbage can Camera guy: Whoa, haha, are you okay dude? Matt: You want anything funny that happens, don't you? Camera guy: still laughing Matt: You want the funny shit that happens here and there, you think it comes out of your [bleep]ing [wagon] pushes garbage can down, don't you? You think it's funny? It comes out of here! running towards Camera guy Camera guy: runs away still laughing Matt: You think the funny comes out of your mother[bleep]ing creativity? Comes out of Satan, mother[bleep]er! nn--ngh! pushes Camera guy down Camera guy: Hoooholy [bleep]! Matt: FUNNY ISN'T REAL! FUNNY ISN'T REAL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Range_This11 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 I'll begin my post by saying I do not believe in morality. I believe situations that require a decision by an individual are presented, and in that precise moment we make a decision. Morality is a great thing to philosophize about on a rainy afternoon, or late at night when the lava lamp is on, but I doubt its role in the decision-making process. Individuals weigh whether an action is "good" or "bad" by their own moral compass in real time. Each compass is attuned to the life experiences of the individual. Universal morality is a politician's term. With that said, I do not support legal prostitution. Most philosophical counterarguments will probably be superior to my justification. However, I have seen first hand how prostitution can destroy a person, a family, and a community. I'm not going to go too far into detail here because I have to go to work, but I will say that there is absolutely no way that the state or federal government can feasibly regulate prostitution. Placing its legality in the hands of a bureaucracy may make people who do not participate in prostitution feel better about themselves, but it will not have a significant impact on how the prostitution business is conducted. 1 "He could climb to it, if he climbed alone, and once there he could suck on the pap of life, gulp down the incomparable milk of wonder." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginger_Warrior Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 I still agree with it. You can't know what's in somebody's best interest. :roll: "Oh yes Mrs. Smith, I hear you've been speaking about your desire to have a gastric band fitted to help with your weight problems. I also hear you've been having takeaways at KFC nearly everyday for the past 20 years and you now weigh 32 stone. Well... as your surgeon, that's none of my business. After all, it's not my place to tell you that eating all of those high calorie meals cooked in saturated fats wasn't in your best interest." Eating behaviour isn't strictly translatable to sexual preferences but... the point is there, dripping in sarcasm. | Favourite Game Music | Last.fm | HYT Friend Chat Rules | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omar Posted February 5, 2013 Author Share Posted February 5, 2013 I don't want it placed in the hands of a bureaucracy. It already is. Now, don't get me wrong, prostitution can be a very big mistake. But keeping it illegal makes the consequences of that mistake much more dire (as pointed out in the OP article). Also, if objective morality doesn't exist, then there's reason to impose community/family values on people. Matt: You want that eh? You want everything good for you. You want everything that's--falls off garbage can Camera guy: Whoa, haha, are you okay dude? Matt: You want anything funny that happens, don't you? Camera guy: still laughing Matt: You want the funny shit that happens here and there, you think it comes out of your [bleep]ing [wagon] pushes garbage can down, don't you? You think it's funny? It comes out of here! running towards Camera guy Camera guy: runs away still laughing Matt: You think the funny comes out of your mother[bleep]ing creativity? Comes out of Satan, mother[bleep]er! nn--ngh! pushes Camera guy down Camera guy: Hoooholy [bleep]! Matt: FUNNY ISN'T REAL! FUNNY ISN'T REAL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginger_Warrior Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 I'm not imposing anything on anyone. I'm simply pointing out that it would be far more productive to get off your moral high horse about "state intervention versus personal liberties", and focus on the reasons that people (the vast, vast majority of whom are female) go into prostitution. If we're really going into the territory of morality--which on its own is a very weak argument to use for bringing in or changing existing legislation, especially on this degree--then surely it's better to make sure no woman, or man, enters the sex trade because in reality, they have no socioeconomic freedom to choose otherwise. Legislation doesn't give people freedom unless they have the power to exercise that freedom. Making prostitution legal overnight would not give people the freedom to choose a different way of life. | Favourite Game Music | Last.fm | HYT Friend Chat Rules | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omar Posted February 5, 2013 Author Share Posted February 5, 2013 I wasn't talking to you; you posted while I was replying to Range. I'll get back to you in a few hours; sorry for the confusion. Matt: You want that eh? You want everything good for you. You want everything that's--falls off garbage can Camera guy: Whoa, haha, are you okay dude? Matt: You want anything funny that happens, don't you? Camera guy: still laughing Matt: You want the funny shit that happens here and there, you think it comes out of your [bleep]ing [wagon] pushes garbage can down, don't you? You think it's funny? It comes out of here! running towards Camera guy Camera guy: runs away still laughing Matt: You think the funny comes out of your mother[bleep]ing creativity? Comes out of Satan, mother[bleep]er! nn--ngh! pushes Camera guy down Camera guy: Hoooholy [bleep]! Matt: FUNNY ISN'T REAL! FUNNY ISN'T REAL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasignhagj Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 The common argument seems to be that legalisation would make the work safer for prostitutes. I'd think they'd be far more thankful if you resolved the economic and social factors which lead to them being prostitutes in the first place. You're assuming that all sex workers do the job simply because they have no alternatives. That may be true for your common street corner prostitute, but there are many higher class prostitutes who do it because it pays extremely well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginger_Warrior Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Are you really suggesting that's the case for the vast majority of them? Come on, you're losing credibility with every passing post if you do. | Favourite Game Music | Last.fm | HYT Friend Chat Rules | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obfuscator Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Well, I have been wanting to sell my body for a while. I mean I've been donating my body for ages, but now I can charge for it! @Range interesting post. May share thoughts later. "It's not a rest for me, it's a rest for the weights." - Dom Mazzetti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alg Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Legislation doesn't give people freedom unless they have the power to exercise that freedom. Making prostitution legal overnight would not give people the freedom to choose a different way of life.Seems like legislation as a whole is more like a bandage: In this case, you can't fix the social and economic factors that lead to this sort of thing but you can try to make it so that there's a bit of safety involved. I painted some stuff and put it on tumblr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assume Nothing Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Are you really suggesting that's the case for the vast majority of them? Come on, you're losing credibility with every passing post if you do.If I base this on what I've observed of strippers of various kinds, I could safely say that a lot of sex-workers actually enjoy what they do. I'd like to think that this principle applies to prostitution as well. Could it be that prostitution's not to blame for those who hate the job - but rather, whom it attracts to use such services? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highlanders Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 I don't care what people do, as long as they keep their shit out of my face. I don't wanna see it, I don't wanna hear about it. Escorts are fine by me, people do their business and I never know about it. If this were to be legalized, you'd end up with whorehouses at every street corner. That breaks the golden "not in my face" rule. No support. 2480+ total Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RpgGamer Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Prostitution should be perfectly legal, but regulated.1) Proper health and sanitary checks, frequent and high standards need to be met2) Paper trail. No need for anything more than a credit card. No cash acceptable.3) Age limits for both workers and customers. These will be guidelined by local age of consent.4) No recording. I don't see the need for cc only. There are perfectly reasonable reasons for people to not want the local brothel showing up on their statement. It's not about what the clients have showing up, it's about what the establishment has tracked in their books. More for the employee's safety. I imagine transactions in a brothel much like purchases. "I'll buy 'Destiny' for $XX.XX for X time". Thus the credit receipt would read "$XX.XX - 'Destiny' @ Brothel" Cash is too fluid, with fake IDs available, it could lead to issues. As a person who worked in a Alcohol job, you'll get a fake ID no matter what. these day's they're getting more smarter when making them, and Debit cards (unless checked by the police) can't be used to track a users age due to privacy agreements. As it stands, if I wanted, at the cost of about ~$80, I could reforge my entire documents myself, obtain a new name/age on a debit card, and get a photo/age ID card. Obviously I couldn't drive with it, but the point is that in these industries you can't ALWAYS prevent underages getting in. THEN there's cases of police being arsed to check underages who do manage to get through because the age of consent is usually 16 so they'd just think "meh its sex", opposed to booze/smokes which are aimed +18/+21 for health reasons. The sentiment stems from responsibility. You have to be responsible to get a credit card in the US, of a certain age, and actions hold dire consequences. Requiring one may discourage the underage/reckless crowd. To make a bold statement:I'm under the belief that if we remove the social stigma behind prostitution and the fallacy of sexualizing children (who are innately sexual regardless) it would be accepted as a common trade craft. Possibly even with academies of training. IE: Firefly - "The Companion" Quote Quote Anyone who likes tacos is incapable of logic. Anyone who likes logic is incapable of tacos. PSA: SaqPrets is an Estonian Dude Steam: NippleBeardTM Origin: Brand_New_iPwn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesset Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/29/seeking-arrangement-college-students_n_913373.html 1 My skin is finally getting softI'll scrub until the damn thing comes off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaida23 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Prostitution in the digital age. Check out my blog to read the Adventures of a Big Damn (F2P) Hero. THE place for all free players to connect, hang out and talk about how awesome it is to be F2P. So, Kaida is the real version of every fictional science-badass? That explains a lot, actually... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RpgGamer Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Just posted that link on all of my social sites. I'm getting me a sugar momma. Screw debt. 1 Quote Quote Anyone who likes tacos is incapable of logic. Anyone who likes logic is incapable of tacos. PSA: SaqPrets is an Estonian Dude Steam: NippleBeardTM Origin: Brand_New_iPwn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omar Posted February 6, 2013 Author Share Posted February 6, 2013 I don't care what people do, as long as they keep their shit out of my face. I don't wanna see it, I don't wanna hear about it. Escorts are fine by me, people do their business and I never know about it. If this were to be legalized, you'd end up with whorehouses at every street corner. That breaks the golden "not in my face" rule. No support.Actually, "not in my face" would be "not on my property", which every street corner is not. I still agree with it. You can't know what's in somebody's best interest. :roll:Can't say I've missed these. "Oh yes Mrs. Smith, I hear you've been speaking about your desire to have a gastric band fitted to help with your weight problems. I also hear you've been having takeaways at KFC nearly everyday for the past 20 years and you now weigh 32 stone. Well... as your surgeon, that's none of my business. After all, it's not my place to tell you that eating all of those high calorie meals cooked in saturated fats wasn't in your best interest." Eating behaviour isn't strictly translatable to sexual preferences but... the point is there, dripping in sarcasm.Best interest is a given in this anecdote; kind of difficult to apply that to real life. I can't think of an example that doesn't fit my "people do what, as far as they know, is in their best interest" point of view, so try something with prostitution.In addition, there's a difference between telling somebody they need to stop eating so much KFC and forcing them to. I'm simply pointing out that it would be far more productive to get off your moral high horse about "state intervention versus personal liberties", and focus on the reasons that people (the vast, vast majority of whom are female) go into prostitution.We don't have the same goals in this debate. You care about what happens to sex workers; I care about what happens to liberties. I feel like my high horse is actually more productive a means to this end. If we're really going into the territory of morality--which on its own is a very weak argument to use for bringing in or changing existing legislation, especially on this degreeI assume this is due to the misunderstanding we had earlier on, but we're not. Or at least, I don't think the morality of prostitution in particular should have any bearing on its legality. then surely it's better to make sure no woman, or man, enters the sex trade because in reality, they have no socioeconomic freedom to choose otherwise.Yes they do. Again, that's like saying I don't have the freedom not to work (which I despise), because if I don't, I'll starve and die. If they're not coerced as I explained earlier, they're free. And that makes it a whole other issue, because it means no one is responsible for their plight (although there's nothing wrong about giving them help if you so desire). Legislation doesn't give people freedom unless they have the power to exercise that freedom. Making prostitution legal overnight would not give people the freedom to choose a different way of life.People are free by default. Legislation stops them from being free. I'm not looking for people to be able to exit the sex trade; I want them to be able to enter the sex trade. This way, if what they desire is to work temporarily and achieve the means to a higher living standard, they may; and if what they desire it to stay in the sex trade, they may. Matt: You want that eh? You want everything good for you. You want everything that's--falls off garbage can Camera guy: Whoa, haha, are you okay dude? Matt: You want anything funny that happens, don't you? Camera guy: still laughing Matt: You want the funny shit that happens here and there, you think it comes out of your [bleep]ing [wagon] pushes garbage can down, don't you? You think it's funny? It comes out of here! running towards Camera guy Camera guy: runs away still laughing Matt: You think the funny comes out of your mother[bleep]ing creativity? Comes out of Satan, mother[bleep]er! nn--ngh! pushes Camera guy down Camera guy: Hoooholy [bleep]! Matt: FUNNY ISN'T REAL! FUNNY ISN'T REAL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Range_This11 Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 I don't want it placed in the hands of a bureaucracy. It already is. Now, don't get me wrong, prostitution can be a very big mistake. But keeping it illegal makes the consequences of that mistake much more dire (as pointed out in the OP article). Also, if objective morality doesn't exist, then there's reason to impose community/family values on people.Anything that is subject to law is in the hands of bureaucracy, but trying to regulate it subjects it to even more bureaucracy. I'm not trying to impose family values on anyone here. My point was that a daughter or son who turns to prostitution will probably be less likely to be accepted by his or her family. A husband or wife who engages in prostitution will probably cause harm to the marriage as well as subject the hypothetical children to social embarrassment. It can also pose serious health concerns to the community. Not only that, but many people enter prostitution as a means for paying for a drug addiction. I use drugs myself (alcohol, tobacco, marijuana) so I'm being slightly hypocritical here, but I think we all know that heroine, crack, and meth are commonly used by prostitutes. Those drugs are ridiculously harmful to the human body. "He could climb to it, if he climbed alone, and once there he could suck on the pap of life, gulp down the incomparable milk of wonder." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RpgGamer Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Sounds like you and Muggiw could go on for hours and hours there Range. Stigmas are subjective. If a marriage forms from prostitutes; so be it. I've seen quite a few porn star couples (even a documentary on their relationship) and while most will find their relationship strange and alien, it works for them. And who are you to say their lifestyle is wrong? (bold claim: how is it any different from saying gay people can't marry?) Quote Quote Anyone who likes tacos is incapable of logic. Anyone who likes logic is incapable of tacos. PSA: SaqPrets is an Estonian Dude Steam: NippleBeardTM Origin: Brand_New_iPwn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omar Posted February 6, 2013 Author Share Posted February 6, 2013 I don't want it placed in the hands of a bureaucracy. It already is. Now, don't get me wrong, prostitution can be a very big mistake. But keeping it illegal makes the consequences of that mistake much more dire (as pointed out in the OP article). Also, if objective morality doesn't exist, then there's reason to impose community/family values on people.Anything that is subject to law is in the hands of bureaucracy, but trying to regulate it subjects it to even more bureaucracy. I'm not trying to impose family values on anyone here. My point was that a daughter or son who turns to prostitution will probably be less likely to be accepted by his or her family. A husband or wife who engages in prostitution will probably cause harm to the marriage as well as subject the hypothetical children to social embarrassment. It can also pose serious health concerns to the community. Not only that, but many people enter prostitution as a means for paying for a drug addiction. I use drugs myself (alcohol, tobacco, marijuana) so I'm being slightly hypocritical here, but I think we all know that heroine, crack, and meth are commonly used by prostitutes. Those drugs are ridiculously harmful to the human body.Perhaps if those drugs weren't illegal, it wouldn't be such a problem. For what it's worth, I have a friend whose mother stripped when he was very young in order to feed her family, and although he won't set foot in a strip club, he's still in favour of legalizing prostitution, despite the fact that some people are "forced" into it. As for the bureaucracy issue, read the article. Prohibition already ruins lives. Matt: You want that eh? You want everything good for you. You want everything that's--falls off garbage can Camera guy: Whoa, haha, are you okay dude? Matt: You want anything funny that happens, don't you? Camera guy: still laughing Matt: You want the funny shit that happens here and there, you think it comes out of your [bleep]ing [wagon] pushes garbage can down, don't you? You think it's funny? It comes out of here! running towards Camera guy Camera guy: runs away still laughing Matt: You think the funny comes out of your mother[bleep]ing creativity? Comes out of Satan, mother[bleep]er! nn--ngh! pushes Camera guy down Camera guy: Hoooholy [bleep]! Matt: FUNNY ISN'T REAL! FUNNY ISN'T REAL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggiwhplar Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Sounds like you and Muggiw could go on for hours and hours there Range. Stigmas are subjective. If a marriage forms from prostitutes; so be it. I've seen quite a few porn star couples (even a documentary on their relationship) and while most will find their relationship strange and alien, it works for them. And who are you to say their lifestyle is wrong? (bold claim: how is it any different from saying gay people can't marry?) Yes, stigmas are generally irrational too. Stigmas are also the problem of the person stigmatizing, not the person being stigmatized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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