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2007 - Old School RuneScape... You Vote! - [It's Here!]


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#321
Bxpprod
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So please, show me this (better) poll that says people who'd pay for 2007scape aren't in a minority.


I didn't say it showed either way. I said first year stats wouldn't agree.

Any poll like this is designed to be rigged. As a general rule, only people who have a strong opinion, are likely to vote. Often, you see it to be extremely one sided. Your typical ring in votes on 'current affairs' programs are a good example of this, it's about inflammatory wording. Voting is self selected. There is no randomness. The only thing these polls give an insight on, is the existence of people who feel strongly about it. To try and draw conclusions regarding the existence of a majority or a minority in the population would be absurd. Even more so when you are attempting to apply a poll with ~800 votes which equates to what, 0.0025% of players?

IT represents NOTHING but the majority of voters in THIS poll.

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#322
Sy_Accursed
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You have to imagine Jagex would send an email out at the least to alert them. Plus those who quit may be part of general MMO or WoW forums where they'd catch wind of the poll.

A satisfactory result for those of us who aren't interested would be for the servers to exist if there's enough interest for them, but only if there's a charge for using them that covers their costs. Then it really is none of our concern, perhaps even a tiny benefit in a small amount of extra profit for the company.


Considering back then RS did not require email addresses and even now they only use it for loyalty points and recovery even if they did send an email out odds are 99.9% of those long gone quitters would not get it.

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#323
PolarBearBlue
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A simple hierarchy of evidence would disagree with you, I'm afraid. Evidence is neither 'right' or 'wrong'. It is simply more accurate or less, more reliable or less. If you think one theory and its accompanying evidence is wrong, provide a stronger body of evidence that proves so. I'd look at the results, see you're right and agree that my own is inadequate in supporting my theory any longer, in light of the new evidence.

That's how an evidence base works.

So please, show me this (better) poll that says people who'd pay for 2007scape aren't in a minority.


Gingy, you know I love you but even I have to point what you are doing is data mining. That isn't good at all and should be taken with a grain of salt.
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#324
Saradomin_Mage
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There seems to be a lot of conjecture around the actual size of the playing community with a lot of people incorrectly assuming that the ‘concurrent player count’ on the RuneScape website represents the total number of active players.
To clear up any confusion on this matter I want to confirm that our Unique Active Player stats for the proceeding 14 Days from Monday the 11th Feb was actually 8,229,459!
So as to the pockets of cynicism that this vote is somehow setup to fail due to barely enough members to hit the first level of viability, you really could not be more wrong.
The reality is that if members really got behind this then they would easily blow through the various tiers and that’s not even counting the mass of existing free players that have clearly stated in the hundreds of ensuing pages of this forum thread that they intend to subscribe to register their support too.
The big question is will the members actually get behind this and register their support, abstain or will people simply hope that someone else will carry a positive vote for them?
I hope that voter apathy wont undermine player democracy, nevertheless the one thing we know for sure is that you will be able to participate from tomorrow onwards and everyone will see the results in real time.

Consider this, the more members that vote the cheaper it would ultimately be for everyone and hopefully reach the point where it doesn’t cost you a penny more and could simply be offered as part of your existing membership - Even if you don't intend to use it I think that's a nice thing to do for your friends.

Lastly, I want to add members that do indeed vote for the reinstatement of the service will all get their first month of 'Old School' RuneScape for free regardless of the eventual level achieved therefore those signing up just to vote you will not need to pay twice :)


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#325
GregorDGrim
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I like the idea of highscores being reset, and everyone along with the economy starting from scratch. As for the actual content (or lack thereof), I'm not that interested.

I'd be more interested if new worlds were set up in 'today's' Runescape where everything was reset and everyone had to start with a new character, which would be registered to play on those dedicated worlds only. We'd get to see the development of a game economy, while keeping all of the existing content. This wouldn't work very well without the ability to minimize bot activity, however.

#326
Ren
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I just so happened to check the RS website for the first time in months since the EoC full-release right after this news post was released. Figured I would give some input seeing as I can't do it directly to Jagex, and I'm not resubscribing to vote (will explain..).


To start this off, I'd like to state that I think it's a great idea in concept, but there's huge flaws with it. I don't think they realise that they ask for a lot of people to stand up and say something about the matter, way too many. I think it's just another scheme to get more cash because there is a very low chance that the voting numbers will go up to the 750,000+ mark to make the "2007scape" release what many desire it to be. There's been a lot of talk about how people will pay extra just to have the old game back, and all that. Of course, I don't think this is true for everyone and it shouldn't be. To be honest, you're paying an extra premium just for access to a worse-looking game that has much less content than it did just before the EoC release. Not to mention that it will have little-to-no protection against botting and all that, which everyone has hated for a long period of time. As much as I loved the game whenever it was the best (some time around 2006-2008 IMO), it'll never be the same even if it's the same game. The community, the item quantities, the bot:player ratio, everything will be overwhelmingly different that no one in their right mind will play it at some point. Be it early-stage or years from now, it will die off.

All that comes from the assumption of only reaching 250,000+ votes towards releasing "2007scape", which is easily the most likely in my eyes.


Now, there are a few other things I want to address. I quickly skimmed over what the news post had, because I wasn't enthusiastic or very interested in this to begin with. There are some factors that could completely change my outlook on the subject that may have been mentioned in this post but I'll continue without caring about that..


There would be a separate team for this from the original people behind the "EoCscape" there is currently; why worry about them taking resources away from their current, supposed megacommunity, game development?

If they reconstructed a "new Runescape" based on the old mechanics and whatnot, meaning different content from what the current game has, that would be epic as all hell. What I'm implying is basically having regular updates for a game with no EoC bullcrap in it, with it having a completely different path of updates than it had from August 2007 and on. That would be amazing, and I'm sure that's what a ton of people wish for. Even if they just added in everything between August 2007 up until Nov 17th 2012 or whenever, I'd be just as happy.



With all the above Bs said, there is a negative percent chance of any of that happening at this point. It'll just be a bunch of servers in an identical setup to Classic, with possible added fees over the current cost of membership, and yeah; it'll maintain itself financially if it goes through (which is why they don't care that much about doing it), but it won't last. This was the whole argument about the EoC being released to begin with. They keep swatting at a beehive until all the bees get pissed off and leave. Some may stay in the area but it's always never the same as before.

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#327
ilovecuttingyews
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There seems to be a lot of conjecture around the actual size of the playing community with a lot of people incorrectly assuming that the ‘concurrent player count’ on the RuneScape website represents the total number of active players.
To clear up any confusion on this matter I want to confirm that our Unique Active Player stats for the proceeding 14 Days from Monday the 11th Feb was actually 8,229,459!


Gotta love MMG and his wonderful spin-doctoring. He gives no mention of what a "Unique active player" is. For all I know, that could be including every single spambot that botwatch kills after 30 seconds. The highscores certainly disagrees with his premise that the current P2P population can blow past the 750k mark. I'll try to find the exact point of where the untrained 34-total accounts end, but like Sy said previously, it's around 760k. Far from the 8M+ MMG makes it sound like.

EDIT: Current number of people on the HS = 1,845,266
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The spot in the HS where untrained accounts end (1154 xp)
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Just proof that trial members will not be able to vote:
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Lastly, I want to add members that do indeed vote for the reinstatement of the service will all get their first month of 'Old School' RuneScape for free regardless of the eventual level achieved therefore those signing up just to vote you will not need to pay twice :)


And of course they use bribery to get people to vote. ONLY if you vote can you recieve a month free. I'm almost tempted to vote just so I can get the free month, but I certainly wouldn't ever pay for RS07. This will only work to hurt Jagex because it inflates the number of votes, thus driving the prices lower, even if people have no intention of actually paying for the service.

** These images from the HS are intended as a reference as to the APROX number of members there are by removing untrained accounts (assumed to be spambots on trial memberships). Many of the spambots I encounter are trained beyond 34 total and some paying members may still be untrained for various reasons, so the numbers will be different that those I've shown. The actual number of paying accounts is only known by Jagex.

#328
jayc3399
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There seems to be a lot of conjecture around the actual size of the playing community with a lot of people incorrectly assuming that the ‘concurrent player count’ on the RuneScape website represents the total number of active players.
To clear up any confusion on this matter I want to confirm that our Unique Active Player stats for the proceeding 14 Days from Monday the 11th Feb was actually 8,229,459!
So as to the pockets of cynicism that this vote is somehow setup to fail due to barely enough members to hit the first level of viability, you really could not be more wrong.
The reality is that if members really got behind this then they would easily blow through the various tiers and that’s not even counting the mass of existing free players that have clearly stated in the hundreds of ensuing pages of this forum thread that they intend to subscribe to register their support too.
The big question is will the members actually get behind this and register their support, abstain or will people simply hope that someone else will carry a positive vote for them?
I hope that voter apathy wont undermine player democracy, nevertheless the one thing we know for sure is that you will be able to participate from tomorrow onwards and everyone will see the results in real time.

Consider this, the more members that vote the cheaper it would ultimately be for everyone and hopefully reach the point where it doesn’t cost you a penny more and could simply be offered as part of your existing membership - Even if you don't intend to use it I think that's a nice thing to do for your friends.

Lastly, I want to add members that do indeed vote for the reinstatement of the service will all get their first month of 'Old School' RuneScape for free regardless of the eventual level achieved therefore those signing up just to vote you will not need to pay twice Posted Image


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Thats the garbage I didn't want to hear. Why is making this profitable such a bad thing. No matter the voter counts make it cost $10 a month extra. Jagex wants revenue make the whinny people pay for it. The game needed to move on, suck it up and get on with it not continue hounding till you get crap like this.

I hate when people give in because other people have their heads to far up their asses to accept change. Don't get me wrong I know there are issues with the EoC but as a whole it was needed to have any hope of fixing this game. The best thing they could do now would be to ignore this crap and actually release something that destroys bots then continue producing quality content instead of sub dividing into seperate games.

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#329
brunokiller
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I thought people would be happy to see jagex listen to a sizable part of their community.

Like it or not, they will reach at least 50k votes, at which point all the ex members that played private servers will buy membership to vote (to save $10 later on).

The private server community is pretty big, and I can assure you a huge majority of private server players would rather play a jagex hosted server. That's at LEAST 10k players that no longer play RS.

Even if it does die right after release, they've made $50k minimum. That's more than enough to cover a small team to set it up and iron out a few bugs. After that, there's only server costs and maybe one bugfixer, because developers are the most expensive.

As an added bonus some private servers will die out, saving tons of lawyer fees (those are very expensive).

I can't see this resulting in a loss in ANY way, and it won't negatively affect your gaming experience if you stick to the live game.

#330
Begbie
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i didn't play Runescape in 2007. it sounds awful.

imagine the competition for resources in a rebooted version, with tens of thousands of players all starting from scratch. what a nightmare.

i'll not be voting.

i will however be watching the number of votes with great interest...

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#331
lordkafei
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...

This will be a members-only vote. While all types of players have invested time in the game, it is our members that ultimately fund the initiatives and therefore get to set the priorities.

...


Whereas:

(1) upon witnessing the sham election of January 2011 and the shameless denials thereof, it is duly suggested that Jagex has neither the inclination not the methods to run a truly fair referendum on this subject

(2) upon noting that the current “election” applies only to paying members, it is duly suggested that the referendum is simply a “cash grab” to entice old-timers - the very audience who would be most interested in this reboot proposal - to come back for one month as paying members to vote (a shameless ploy which is on par with the entire micropayments system currently infesting the game)

(3) upon noting that the best reboot point, March 2010, is unavailable, it is duly suggested that this is not a serious attempt at fixing what is wrong with the game in its current state in a less-than-pyrrhic manner

After due consideration and thoughtful deliberation on said points, we therefore suggest that this cash-grabbing PR stunt be treated with all the disrespect and mockery it deserves.

RESOLVED on this 14th Day of February, 2013

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#332
Ambler
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Added a poll to the first post, will be interesting to compare the results here to the results Jagex gets overall. :thumbup:

Edit: There's one on the tip it homepage aswell. Oops. :oops:

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#333
ilovecuttingyews
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EDIT: Fixed

#334
Begbie
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i don't understand all the negative comments regarding this being a "cash grab".

Jagex is a business. their goal is to make cash.

as a player who wants Runescape to continue and to improve for years to come, i want Jagex to continue making cash.

if this vote/petition is a scam to make tens of thousands of non-members/non-players subscribe for 1 month, then great, well done Jagex, good thinking. maybe some of them who haven't played in years might actually like the current game and stick around.

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#335
A_Mace
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I haven't decided yet.

If it doesn't affect the main game, I don't mind voting yes but I probably won't do anything else than look around for a few hours on the 2007-servers before returning to the main game.
(I like runescape as it is now. Except the fact that EoC could use more tweaking.)

I'd only vote yes for the people who are really waiting for this and are planning to actually spend some time on the 2007-servers.
I just hope that it won't be just a 'hype' for a couple of weeks/months before the 2007-servers are just standing there collecting dust.

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#336
999134
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See no reason to vote no apart from out of spite.

It won't take resources away from the main game, and in fact it might draw in MORE resources from the large numbers of people playing private servers.
Check it out, huge amount of effort has gone into this massive mod!
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#337
Marduk_God
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i don't understand all the negative comments regarding this being a "cash grab".

Jagex is a business. their goal is to make cash.


In theory, a goal of making money is indeed not necessarily incompatible with a policy of integrity and adhering to a certain ethos.

In theory.
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#338
aerendil
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I have a question.......

If we get the votes for the 15$ fee one(i think it was 250k votes, do we have to pay it if we don't want to play in the 2007scape? Or do we have no choice to pay it, play 2007scape or not?
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#339
999134
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Do you think we will have to pay for normal runescape membership as well? Or will there be an option to just buy membership on the old servers.
Check it out, huge amount of effort has gone into this massive mod!
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#340
abellus
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And you're using only a few datapoints to show that 2008 was the reason they fell. With only two datapoints there, what's to say it didn't continue to climb and fall at some other point over the period?

Correction: He's using a two data points within a month of each other to imply causation with an event that happened 48 months ago. To say it's an intellectual scandal to pass those statistics off with that strong of a conclusion would be a massive understatement.


You are my hero. <3

I haven't played the game in 3+ years and I'm voting yes.

Generation Y praises the current Runescape as a vast improvement, I don't see the appeal. I quit this game because I saw Runescape becoming far too "dressed up" (as fallstar beautifully puts it), kiddish, and commercialized.

I may sound like a cranky old geyser, but I truly believe 2006scape was the best scape. 2007 is a nice deal, and is about the time Jagex starting losing their touch with reality, but it's still an early enough date to enjoy the oldschool foundations of Runescape.

2013 Runescape has got neat graphics... whoopdi [bleep]in do? I'd trade in graphics for gameplay any day.


So I guess every update that happened after 2007 does not count as gameplay. Those 65 quest, 4+ new bosses, 2 new skills don't mean much.


In my opinion, yes.

Jagex very much changed their outlook on Runescape around the year 2007. At that time Runescape became less of the player's game and more of the company's game. Quests were dull, unexciting, bland. Most of the bosses are just Jagex trying to outdo their old bosses. Notice how Jagex are terrified of releasing a new boss that doesn't topple the old bosses? That's the kind of mindset that destroyed the game. Sure, there were some great updates, but 98% of the gameplay updates from 2007-present are really, truly... just ... plain... bad. They lost their touch. They lost their game.

I'm not going to sit here and try to cherry pick the good things in 2013 Runescape, because that's dishonest. 2013 Runescape is overwhelmingly bad. 2013 Runescape is being updated by a company that favors censorship, despises criticism, and generally shits on its player base (arguably even more than Blizzard!). I don't know, it feels like Runescape is like a Micheal Bay movie. The advertisements for the movie will tell you its unique, it's great, it's heroic, it's patriotic, it's the best movie of the year. And people fall for it because that message is drilled into their head. But then you watch the movie and see how terrible it is. On the outside, it's really great looking, nice and shiny- the action scenes are great. But when you examine the underlying themes, plot, etc. of the movie you see that the movie is nothing but a gold-plated turd. People only see the gold plating, but if you really examine Runescape for what it is today, it is just another carbon copy of every other MMO ever made. It's crap. It's unoriginal. Everything in the game is so goddam boring.

Remember back in 2006 when we had the Falador massacre and everybody went nuts? That's the kind of feeling that you don't get with 2013 Runescape. Jagex are terrified of making a mistake, and that mentality has cost them their game. I feel like Jagex is some over protective parent wrapping everything in bubble wrap. Legos? You could stub your toe! Bubble wrap. Toy sword? You could stab yourself! Bubble wrap. Math homework? Your poor little brain will get fried! Bubble wrap. Friends? Friends will make you do drugs! Bubble wrap. Shoes? You might trip over your shoelaces! Bubble wrap. Don't worry honey, daddy Jagex will take care of you.



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