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Ambler

2007 - Old School RuneScape... You Vote! - [It's Here!]

  

  1. 1. Will You Vote for 2007 Runescape?

    • Yes
      33
    • No
      30
    • I'm F2P
      8
  2. 2. Will you play on 2007 Servers?

    • Yes
      37
    • No
      27
    • I'm F2p, so no
      4
    • I'm F2P, but would subscribe
      4


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[spoiler=minimized quotes for space save.]

I'd be willing to pay $5 for a membership to 07 scape, but [bleep] if I'm going to pay $15 for it. My own opinion is that Jagex had every intention to provide tier 3 or higher, but now that the poll has failed to produce the numbers they were expecting they will be forced to either lose out on a lot of potential profit from people who won't pay the ridiculous $15 or somehow allow more votes to be taken (ie. old subscribed accounts can now vote, or f2p accounts with x total level can vote).

I somewhat expect Jagex to come out with an announcement like that this week. Very few people will be willing to pay over $20 a month to access a game from 2007.

 

First, to PoorLepRecon's point, why wouldn't you want to pony up the cash? When you voted in the poll, you knew going into it that, if the numbers couldn't be reached, then you'd have 2007scape but at a high premium. It's like saying you want the nostalgia filter, but don't want to pay the costs of bringing it back - one who thinks like that can't have their cake and eat it too.

 

Next, to ItsASpork's point, why would Jagex reverse their stance on this? They knew what they were saying when the poll came out, and my gut feeling says that they wanted to see just how vocal this group of players - that claimed that they'd want 2007scape - were, just to see if the numbers they were quoting off could really materialize.

 

Just because it's slowing down/isn't projected to reach whatever mark doesn't mean one can start looking for outs. Even if the number misses the [self] desired mark by 1 person before 1 March, Jagex should stick by their plan and execute - whether this means an additional $5 on members, or $20 for the whole kit'n'caboodle.

 

Because it makes no sense to trash what could be a fun and potentially profitable project because of some arbitrary targets. And to your point aimed at lep, there is no way I could justify spending $20 a month on any game, especially not a 5.5 year old one. I'll happily play if it's free, and might consider it if it was $5 a month, but an additional $15 is outrageous.

Doesn't change the facts that people knew what they were potentially signing up to before the poll even went live, Jagex stated clearly the higher premium to recoup costs if there wasn't enough interest in the new servers, as there clearly isn't at this moment. People should be prepared to pay an extra $15 a month if the 250k target is never reached and be happy, as that is the cost Jagex have pre-determined if required to avoid these new nostalgia-servers not be a cash drain on themselves. Making the new serves free to play or lower premium without the amount of interest would be a terrible business move to please a very small vocal minority, which they were doing anyway with the news of 2007 servers returning.

 

 

That's a poorly thought through argument. 07servers have the potential to be much more than just nostalgia, it has the potential to be a much smaller, yet profitable and growing independent game that generates money for the live game. However, that outcome is only possible if the cost is low enough to entice new players to try out the servers. Someone who's never played 07rs isn't going to pay 15 bucks a month for something they aren't even sure they'll like.

as far as I'm concerned 07 servers have little to no potential to be sustainable for long period of time to generate cash for the main game. People will log in see that there expectations =/= the nostalgia they felt for 07 servers and quit after a few weeks/months at most. I've said it before bringing back 5.5 year old code to make so called 'old school' servers will be nothing like the game used to be, the game still had major flaws in 07 but everyone with rose tinted glasses on seems to forget that. the community made 2007 great, no matter how much obsolete coding you bring back with change the fact that the community has moved on or adapted to change.

If you want an accurate prediction for these new servers look at RSC, it's mostly barren and overrun with bots now. Yet still costs Jagex 3 extra servers to maintain. The difference being RSC is actually a different game and hence a true legacy/'old school' server, unlike 07 servers.

 

Jagex killed Rsc servers by making them closed just like they will kill 07 potential by making it too expensive to get off the ground. If you can't see the potential in a runescape reset to zero with a combat system that was extremely popular because it was before all of the overpowered weapons then you either haven't been apart of this game long or haven't paid attention to its evolution.

 

The combat engine alone is enough to draw many old pkers back, as well as, those who pked right up to eoc. Also with everything reset it has a draw to those who want to start a new game and economy but it only has that draw if it comes with a reasonable cost.

 

There are many like me who have left the game that would be willing to return at a reasonable cost, but that number will dwindle severely as it gets more expensive, not so much because we aren't willing to pay it but because we are old enough now to know that the game reset to zero that costs 20 dollars a month has no potential of getting off the ground. If runescape cost 10 bucks a month right from the start, it would most likely not even exist today. Because a new game can't muster a supporting network of players when it costs that much before the players even get a chance to become emotionally invested in the games survival.

 

The community had no draw to me in 07, I prefer the community of 02 tbh.... But the gameplay of 07 has enough draw to me personally to come back.

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I've...I've just got to know. What makes anyone here think that this sort of thing would be cheap and easy to maintain?

 

A little real world experience: My company is preparing to release some software that was in development for two weeks. Two weeks for a development team of twelve people at $30/hr (industry standard) for 336 hours is about $120K. That doesn't count any quality assurance effort, product management, requirements gathering, or any intermediate releases/technical support during that time related to the release.

 

As a general rule of thumb, a developer costs $65K. At $15/mo/player, you'd pay for that developer's yearly salary with 4,333 players. Want more developers? Multiply the base number of the developer's salary by the number of players you need. At a modest level, you'd need ~13,000 players paying $15/mo to pay for 3 developers for an entire year.

 

This says nothing of quality assurance - they make slightly less than a developer, but it's still north of $57K. With a team of 3 developers and 2 quality assurance staff, that'd be about $206,400. At $15/mo, that's ~14,000 players.

 

Then you have the unforeseen costs - customer support, technical upkeep, and ensuring that the code can run on Java 7 since Java 6 isn't supported anymore, as well as server and bandwidth costs. Also, where is all of this data going to live? Which SAN would they want to invest in? Some of the really good ones can be pricey - $5,000 to start, $40,000 on the high end - and if there's a service contract, well you're handing over easily another $100,000 or more to ensure that your data integrity remains.

 

I haven't even started talking about the geolocated servers to reduce lag. Where would they go? Which countries would charge them an arm and a leg for the bandwidth?

 

These are just the prices that are off the top of my head for a project. The only people that could appreciate the other costs besides "resurrecting some old code and slapping it on a server" would be the ones that are in the industry. My numbers for the SAN may be a bit off, since I've not been able to price one of those for about 4 years, but thinking of those other costs is pretty serious.

 

So I'm just curious.

 

Why does everyone seem to think that this is inexpensive?

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Doesn't change the facts that people knew what they were potentially signing up to before the poll even went live, Jagex stated clearly the higher premium to recoup costs if there wasn't enough interest in the new servers, as there clearly isn't at this moment. People should be prepared to pay an extra $15 a month if the 250k target is never reached and be happy, as that is the cost Jagex have pre-determined if required to avoid these new nostalgia-servers not be a cash drain on themselves. Making the new serves free to play or lower premium without the amount of interest would be a terrible business move to please a very small vocal minority, which they were doing anyway with the news of 2007 servers returning.

Going by that logic, anyone who is interested in it but doesn't/cant pay an extra $15 for it would be waiting for the vote to get to 250k. So that's a poor way of looking at it.

 

I doubt the targets are arbitrary. They will be designed so that at each level of interest, and hence estimated income, the planned changes become economically viable.

 

Say there are only 50k people willing to pay an extra $15 per month, right now the vote is over 150k, and if all of those who voted are willing to pay an extra $5, then it would be in Jagex's best interest to make it only cost an extra $5. Obviously that would be a huge assumption to say that those figures are correct, but I'm using the example to say that the option at 250K will get Jagex more money than option 50K, even if no one else votes.

 

And being economically viable? Jagex are definitely going to profit from this. People don't realise how cheap this option is, the content is already developed, it only requires a small team to get it ready for current systems and basically set it up, other than that there's only really server costs which aren't that expensive and will easily be covered by membership fees.

 

Look at all the time, money and resources Jagex spent working on games and content that never saw the light of day. This is a very small risk and very small investment which has pretty much already guaranteed profit for Jagex.

 

And I can't see 07scape lasting too long if it doesn't make the 250k votes (if Jagex are planning to stay to their word). Runescape membership is already $10 for me, this extra "$15" will probably end up being over $20 in AUD. So for me it will likely cost about $30 a month. As much as I want to play and pay to play 07scape, there is no way I'm gonna hang around for longer than a few months at $30 per month.

 

Jagex aren't stupid, and like any other business their goal is maximise profit. Now, I won't pretend to be experienced in either game-development or implementation of the infrastructure required to run such a game so take this anecdotally; But I highly doubt these levels are either arbitrary or unreasonable and the implementation of such a project much more than pro-2007scape crowd assume.

 

Although I agree it would probably be in their best interest to reduce the price the 250k level.

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[spoiler=minimized quotes for space save.]

I'd be willing to pay $5 for a membership to 07 scape, but [bleep] if I'm going to pay $15 for it. My own opinion is that Jagex had every intention to provide tier 3 or higher, but now that the poll has failed to produce the numbers they were expecting they will be forced to either lose out on a lot of potential profit from people who won't pay the ridiculous $15 or somehow allow more votes to be taken (ie. old subscribed accounts can now vote, or f2p accounts with x total level can vote).

I somewhat expect Jagex to come out with an announcement like that this week. Very few people will be willing to pay over $20 a month to access a game from 2007.

 

First, to PoorLepRecon's point, why wouldn't you want to pony up the cash? When you voted in the poll, you knew going into it that, if the numbers couldn't be reached, then you'd have 2007scape but at a high premium. It's like saying you want the nostalgia filter, but don't want to pay the costs of bringing it back - one who thinks like that can't have their cake and eat it too.

 

Next, to ItsASpork's point, why would Jagex reverse their stance on this? They knew what they were saying when the poll came out, and my gut feeling says that they wanted to see just how vocal this group of players - that claimed that they'd want 2007scape - were, just to see if the numbers they were quoting off could really materialize.

 

Just because it's slowing down/isn't projected to reach whatever mark doesn't mean one can start looking for outs. Even if the number misses the [self] desired mark by 1 person before 1 March, Jagex should stick by their plan and execute - whether this means an additional $5 on members, or $20 for the whole kit'n'caboodle.

 

Because it makes no sense to trash what could be a fun and potentially profitable project because of some arbitrary targets. And to your point aimed at lep, there is no way I could justify spending $20 a month on any game, especially not a 5.5 year old one. I'll happily play if it's free, and might consider it if it was $5 a month, but an additional $15 is outrageous.

Doesn't change the facts that people knew what they were potentially signing up to before the poll even went live, Jagex stated clearly the higher premium to recoup costs if there wasn't enough interest in the new servers, as there clearly isn't at this moment. People should be prepared to pay an extra $15 a month if the 250k target is never reached and be happy, as that is the cost Jagex have pre-determined if required to avoid these new nostalgia-servers not be a cash drain on themselves. Making the new serves free to play or lower premium without the amount of interest would be a terrible business move to please a very small vocal minority, which they were doing anyway with the news of 2007 servers returning.

 

 

That's a poorly thought through argument. 07servers have the potential to be much more than just nostalgia, it has the potential to be a much smaller, yet profitable and growing independent game that generates money for the live game. However, that outcome is only possible if the cost is low enough to entice new players to try out the servers. Someone who's never played 07rs isn't going to pay 15 bucks a month for something they aren't even sure they'll like.

as far as I'm concerned 07 servers have little to no potential to be sustainable for long period of time to generate cash for the main game. People will log in see that there expectations =/= the nostalgia they felt for 07 servers and quit after a few weeks/months at most. I've said it before bringing back 5.5 year old code to make so called 'old school' servers will be nothing like the game used to be, the game still had major flaws in 07 but everyone with rose tinted glasses on seems to forget that. the community made 2007 great, no matter how much obsolete coding you bring back with change the fact that the community has moved on or adapted to change.

If you want an accurate prediction for these new servers look at RSC, it's mostly barren and overrun with bots now. Yet still costs Jagex 3 extra servers to maintain. The difference being RSC is actually a different game and hence a true legacy/'old school' server, unlike 07 servers.

 

Jagex killed Rsc servers by making them closed just like they will kill 07 potential by making it too expensive to get off the ground. If you can't see the potential in a runescape reset to zero with a combat system that was extremely popular because it was before all of the overpowered weapons then you either haven't been apart of this game long or haven't paid attention to its evolution.

 

The combat engine alone is enough to draw many old pkers back, as well as, those who pked right up to eoc. Also with everything reset it has a draw to those who want to start a new game and economy but it only has that draw if it comes with a reasonable cost.

 

There are many like me who have left the game that would be willing to return at a reasonable cost, but that number will dwindle severely as it gets more expensive, not so much because we aren't willing to pay it but because we are old enough now to know that the game reset to zero that costs 20 dollars a month has no potential of getting off the ground. If runescape cost 10 bucks a month right from the start, it would most likely not even exist today. Because a new game can't muster a supporting network of players when it costs that much before the players even get a chance to become emotionally invested in the games survival.

 

The community had no draw to me in 07, I prefer the community of 02 tbh.... But the gameplay of 07 has enough draw to me personally to come back.

The old combat engine is nothing to be proud about or be a major enough selling point to 07 servers. As to the over-powered weapons part is simply part of a power creep. Back in early RSC/RS the rune 2h was considered overpowered, based on it's speed being equal to a dagger or scimi. Dragon b'axe was considered overpowered upon it's release. Hell even the whip was considered overpowered in it's heyday. It's only after new weapons are released that people realise that these weapons aren't over-powered just top end of the game at that moment.

I myself have personally played for the best part of 8 nearly 9 years, I played very actively during the 05-09 period, and I can gladly say I feel nothing positive about going back to the 2007 servers, if anything it would be a massive step backwards for Jagex and runescape as a whole.


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I don't want updates to 2007scape. But if the interest was there (a big enough playerbase to eventually 'wear out' the existing content), then there should be polls for which updates to be implemented. Obviously, this is to avoid a vocal minority getting their way (ironic, huh?), and to steer 2007scape in the direction the players wanted the real game to go.


Sorry if I skip words in my sentences from time to time. My brain tends to be a step or two ahead of my fingers when I type.

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But what if a vocal minority wants changes made? Or if they don't want the ease of use features added? What happens then? How is it to be determined that such changes are or are not to be made?

 

There's always someone - there's always a group - who will say, "Ya know, it'd be better if it had 'X' ..."

 

And when they don't get it, they throw a hissy over it.

 

How do you propose this be handled?

You handle it by telling them to shut up. If it's more than a minority they can call a yes/no poll.

 

As for updates, there probably would be a few that benefit the game such as that log out timer, which from what people are saying, will log you out after 1.5 mins. I hope they increase it to 5 mins.


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[spoiler=My 99s (7)]9,638th to 99 Fletching ~ 29th January 2007

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92,762nd to 99 Hitpoints ~ 26th June 2010

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I don't want updates to 2007scape. But if the interest was there (a big enough playerbase to eventually 'wear out' the existing content), then there should be polls for which updates to be implemented. Obviously, this is to avoid a vocal minority getting their way (ironic, huh?), and to steer 2007scape in the direction the players wanted the real game to go.

The problem is players are so fickle and opinionated, that if Jagex left runescape's advancement up to what players wanted this game wouldn't have made it to 2007, and be long gone by now. I canb't see the playerbase wearing out the existing content for years easily, seeing how long it would take to max out skills such as slayer.


Quest Cape Achieved 10/08/2012

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But what if a vocal minority wants changes made? Or if they don't want the ease of use features added? What happens then? How is it to be determined that such changes are or are not to be made?

 

There's always someone - there's always a group - who will say, "Ya know, it'd be better if it had 'X' ..."

 

And when they don't get it, they throw a hissy over it.

 

How do you propose this be handled?

You handle it by telling them to shut up. If it's more than a minority they can call a yes/no poll.

 

As for updates, there probably would be a few that benefit the game such as that log out timer, which from what people are saying, will log you out after 1.5 mins. I hope they increase it to 5 mins.

According to your logic this 2007 server newspost should have been simply a statement from Jagex saying shut up then right?


Quest Cape Achieved 10/08/2012

TFU: Ruinous Edge

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[spoiler=minimized quotes for space save.]

I'd be willing to pay $5 for a membership to 07 scape, but [bleep] if I'm going to pay $15 for it. My own opinion is that Jagex had every intention to provide tier 3 or higher, but now that the poll has failed to produce the numbers they were expecting they will be forced to either lose out on a lot of potential profit from people who won't pay the ridiculous $15 or somehow allow more votes to be taken (ie. old subscribed accounts can now vote, or f2p accounts with x total level can vote).

I somewhat expect Jagex to come out with an announcement like that this week. Very few people will be willing to pay over $20 a month to access a game from 2007.

 

First, to PoorLepRecon's point, why wouldn't you want to pony up the cash? When you voted in the poll, you knew going into it that, if the numbers couldn't be reached, then you'd have 2007scape but at a high premium. It's like saying you want the nostalgia filter, but don't want to pay the costs of bringing it back - one who thinks like that can't have their cake and eat it too.

 

Next, to ItsASpork's point, why would Jagex reverse their stance on this? They knew what they were saying when the poll came out, and my gut feeling says that they wanted to see just how vocal this group of players - that claimed that they'd want 2007scape - were, just to see if the numbers they were quoting off could really materialize.

 

Just because it's slowing down/isn't projected to reach whatever mark doesn't mean one can start looking for outs. Even if the number misses the [self] desired mark by 1 person before 1 March, Jagex should stick by their plan and execute - whether this means an additional $5 on members, or $20 for the whole kit'n'caboodle.

 

Because it makes no sense to trash what could be a fun and potentially profitable project because of some arbitrary targets. And to your point aimed at lep, there is no way I could justify spending $20 a month on any game, especially not a 5.5 year old one. I'll happily play if it's free, and might consider it if it was $5 a month, but an additional $15 is outrageous.

Doesn't change the facts that people knew what they were potentially signing up to before the poll even went live, Jagex stated clearly the higher premium to recoup costs if there wasn't enough interest in the new servers, as there clearly isn't at this moment. People should be prepared to pay an extra $15 a month if the 250k target is never reached and be happy, as that is the cost Jagex have pre-determined if required to avoid these new nostalgia-servers not be a cash drain on themselves. Making the new serves free to play or lower premium without the amount of interest would be a terrible business move to please a very small vocal minority, which they were doing anyway with the news of 2007 servers returning.

 

 

That's a poorly thought through argument. 07servers have the potential to be much more than just nostalgia, it has the potential to be a much smaller, yet profitable and growing independent game that generates money for the live game. However, that outcome is only possible if the cost is low enough to entice new players to try out the servers. Someone who's never played 07rs isn't going to pay 15 bucks a month for something they aren't even sure they'll like.

as far as I'm concerned 07 servers have little to no potential to be sustainable for long period of time to generate cash for the main game. People will log in see that there expectations =/= the nostalgia they felt for 07 servers and quit after a few weeks/months at most. I've said it before bringing back 5.5 year old code to make so called 'old school' servers will be nothing like the game used to be, the game still had major flaws in 07 but everyone with rose tinted glasses on seems to forget that. the community made 2007 great, no matter how much obsolete coding you bring back with change the fact that the community has moved on or adapted to change.

If you want an accurate prediction for these new servers look at RSC, it's mostly barren and overrun with bots now. Yet still costs Jagex 3 extra servers to maintain. The difference being RSC is actually a different game and hence a true legacy/'old school' server, unlike 07 servers.

 

Jagex killed Rsc servers by making them closed just like they will kill 07 potential by making it too expensive to get off the ground. If you can't see the potential in a runescape reset to zero with a combat system that was extremely popular because it was before all of the overpowered weapons then you either haven't been apart of this game long or haven't paid attention to its evolution.

 

The combat engine alone is enough to draw many old pkers back, as well as, those who pked right up to eoc. Also with everything reset it has a draw to those who want to start a new game and economy but it only has that draw if it comes with a reasonable cost.

 

There are many like me who have left the game that would be willing to return at a reasonable cost, but that number will dwindle severely as it gets more expensive, not so much because we aren't willing to pay it but because we are old enough now to know that the game reset to zero that costs 20 dollars a month has no potential of getting off the ground. If runescape cost 10 bucks a month right from the start, it would most likely not even exist today. Because a new game can't muster a supporting network of players when it costs that much before the players even get a chance to become emotionally invested in the games survival.

 

The community had no draw to me in 07, I prefer the community of 02 tbh.... But the gameplay of 07 has enough draw to me personally to come back.

The old combat engine is nothing to be proud about or be a major enough selling point to 07 servers. As to the over-powered weapons part is simply part of a power creep. Back in early RSC/RS the rune 2h was considered overpowered, based on it's speed being equal to a dagger or scimi. Dragon b'axe was considered overpowered upon it's release. Hell even the whip was considered overpowered in it's heyday. It's only after new weapons are released that people realise that these weapons aren't over-powered just top end of the game at that moment.

I myself have personally played for the best part of 8 nearly 9 years, I played very actively during the 05-09 period, and I can gladly say I feel nothing positive about going back to the 2007 servers, if anything it would be a massive step backwards for Jagex and runescape as a whole.

 

Just because it isn't a selling point to you doesn't mean it has no value to many of us, the reproduction of this eras combat engine and weapons in private servers is evidence enough that there is an established fan base for this Rs eras pking.

 

 

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But what if a vocal minority wants changes made? Or if they don't want the ease of use features added? What happens then? How is it to be determined that such changes are or are not to be made?

 

There's always someone - there's always a group - who will say, "Ya know, it'd be better if it had 'X' ..."

 

And when they don't get it, they throw a hissy over it.

 

How do you propose this be handled?

You handle it by telling them to shut up. If it's more than a minority they can call a yes/no poll.

 

As for updates, there probably would be a few that benefit the game such as that log out timer, which from what people are saying, will log you out after 1.5 mins. I hope they increase it to 5 mins.

It was actually 1 minute.

 

I think I would consider playing it only if I can play 07 and live at the same time. I still have a few slow afk skills to max on live game.


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Quest Cape Achieved on November 14, 2007

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I've...I've just got to know. What makes anyone here think that this sort of thing would be cheap and easy to maintain?

 

A little real world experience: My company is preparing to release some software that was in development for two weeks. Two weeks for a development team of twelve people at $30/hr (industry standard) for 336 hours is about $120K. That doesn't count any quality assurance effort, product management, requirements gathering, or any intermediate releases/technical support during that time related to the release.

 

As a general rule of thumb, a developer costs $65K. At $15/mo/player, you'd pay for that developer's yearly salary with 4,333 players. Want more developers? Multiply the base number of the developer's salary by the number of players you need. At a modest level, you'd need ~13,000 players paying $15/mo to pay for 3 developers for an entire year.

 

This says nothing of quality assurance - they make slightly less than a developer, but it's still north of $57K. With a team of 3 developers and 2 quality assurance staff, that'd be about $206,400. At $15/mo, that's ~14,000 players.

 

Then you have the unforeseen costs - customer support, technical upkeep, and ensuring that the code can run on Java 7 since Java 6 isn't supported anymore, as well as server and bandwidth costs. Also, where is all of this data going to live? Which SAN would they want to invest in? Some of the really good ones can be pricey - $5,000 to start, $40,000 on the high end - and if there's a service contract, well you're handing over easily another $100,000 or more to ensure that your data integrity remains.

 

I haven't even started talking about the geolocated servers to reduce lag. Where would they go? Which countries would charge them an arm and a leg for the bandwidth?

 

These are just the prices that are off the top of my head for a project. The only people that could appreciate the other costs besides "resurrecting some old code and slapping it on a server" would be the ones that are in the industry. My numbers for the SAN may be a bit off, since I've not been able to price one of those for about 4 years, but thinking of those other costs is pretty serious.

 

So I'm just curious.

 

Why does everyone seem to think that this is inexpensive?

When I say it will be cheap to implement, I mean relatively cheap compared to what they are currently earning and spending. Some of the overhead costs are already covered.

 

This isn't a perfect example, but look at some of the recent RS updates, they would have teams of developers and QA and all that working on the content and you could calculate their hourly costs and how that new content actually cost Jagex. From my experiences, a lot of content doesn't get used often, and doesn't suddenly make thousands of old players rejoin.

 

The potential for this small investment is HUGE.

 

Say option 250k happens and there are 150,000 willing 07scape players. That will be $750,000 a month just from the extra $5 fee. BUT there will be lots of people (like myself included), who will only be paying to play 07scape, and for me that's an extra $10 they are earning because of this 07scape investment.

 

Lets say for example out of these 150,000 players, there are 30,000 people who have returned just to play 07scape (not main RS). To be fair I'll go by the $8 US membership cost, that's another $240,000 per month, which brings the revenue to about $1Million a month. (and I am trying to be modest with these figures, if you think my modest estimates are way off, please let me know, and give me your figures to calculate).

 

There's obviously many, many variables to take into account, such as people leaving after a month, more people joining, etc, but this $1million a month will easily cover the costs, and even if the numbers start to decline, the overhead of setting up 07scape has already been occurred and it will only be the on-going server costs and support (which will also easily be covered by membership costs even if the numbers decline by 75%).

 

So yes, like I said in an earlier thread, this is cheap for Jagex, with such HUGE potential for a great return. Jagex in past have spent so many resources working on failed content like that mechscape thing, so this tiny investment seems almost crazy not to take advantage of, when so many people have showed interest.


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[spoiler=My 99s (7)]9,638th to 99 Fletching ~ 29th January 2007

737th to 99 Hunter ~ 2nd July 2007

910th to 99 Agility ~ 28th January 2008

59,467th to 99 Defence ~ 23rd December 2009

92,762nd to 99 Hitpoints ~ 26th June 2010

102,704th to 99 Attack ~ 29th June 2010

144,091st to 99 Strength ~ 29th June 2010

 

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So I'm just curious.

 

Why does everyone seem to think that this is inexpensive?

 

Because they have something that you don't. Well actually lack of something that you and some other people here have - real life experience.

Edited by Quyneax
Less flamebaiting please ;).

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But what if a vocal minority wants changes made? Or if they don't want the ease of use features added? What happens then? How is it to be determined that such changes are or are not to be made?

 

There's always someone - there's always a group - who will say, "Ya know, it'd be better if it had 'X' ..."

 

And when they don't get it, they throw a hissy over it.

 

How do you propose this be handled?

You handle it by telling them to shut up. If it's more than a minority they can call a yes/no poll.

 

As for updates, there probably would be a few that benefit the game such as that log out timer, which from what people are saying, will log you out after 1.5 mins. I hope they increase it to 5 mins.

According to your logic this 2007 server newspost should have been simply a statement from Jagex saying shut up then right?

Well this is a great opportunity for Jagex to make lots of money, and since that's what drives their decisions these days, no, they made the right choice for the future of Jagex and their money. And it will likely benefit the main RuneScape game, so it's win-win all around.

 

It may be a minority, but 150,000 is a LOT of people to not please who are willing to give you their money for a viably cheap option.

 

It was actually 1 minute.

 

I think I would consider playing it only if I can play 07 and live at the same time. I still have a few slow afk skills to max on live game.

Ah well I got that off a thread somewhere, It's been too long for me to remember. But still, I look like to see that increased! :)


nabsigmar2011.png

[spoiler=My 99s (7)]9,638th to 99 Fletching ~ 29th January 2007

737th to 99 Hunter ~ 2nd July 2007

910th to 99 Agility ~ 28th January 2008

59,467th to 99 Defence ~ 23rd December 2009

92,762nd to 99 Hitpoints ~ 26th June 2010

102,704th to 99 Attack ~ 29th June 2010

144,091st to 99 Strength ~ 29th June 2010

 

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So I'm just curious.

 

Why does everyone seem to think that this is inexpensive?

 

Because they have something that you don't. Well actually lack of something that you and some other people here have - real life experience.

How could you possibly know the cost of running servers and a game if you have no experience in that industry

ftfy

 

Plenty of things I could say in response to your original post. Best thing I can say is "please cut out the flamebait bullshit."

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Squab unleashes Megiddo! Completed all quests and hard diaries. 75+ Skiller. (At one point.) 2000+ total. 99 Magic.
[spoiler=The rest of my sig. You know you wanna see it.]

my difinition of noob is i dont like u, either u are better then me or u are worst them me

Buying spins make you a bad person...don't do it. It's like buying nukes for North Korea.

Well if it bothers you that the game is more fun now, then you can go cry in a corner. :shame:

your article was the equivalent of a circumcized porcupine

The only thing wrong with it is the lack of a percentage for when you need to stroke it.

 


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But what if a vocal minority wants changes made? Or if they don't want the ease of use features added? What happens then? How is it to be determined that such changes are or are not to be made?

 

There's always someone - there's always a group - who will say, "Ya know, it'd be better if it had 'X' ..."

 

And when they don't get it, they throw a hissy over it.

 

How do you propose this be handled?

You handle it by telling them to shut up. If it's more than a minority they can call a yes/no poll.

 

As for updates, there probably would be a few that benefit the game such as that log out timer, which from what people are saying, will log you out after 1.5 mins. I hope they increase it to 5 mins.

According to your logic this 2007 server newspost should have been simply a statement from Jagex saying shut up then right?

Well this is a great opportunity for Jagex to make lots of money, and since that's what drives their decisions these days, no, they made the right choice for the future of Jagex and their money. And it will likely benefit the main RuneScape game, so it's win-win all around.

 

It may be a minority, but 150,000 is a LOT of people to not please who are willing to give you their money for a viably cheap option.

 

It was actually 1 minute.

 

I think I would consider playing it only if I can play 07 and live at the same time. I still have a few slow afk skills to max on live game.

Ah well I got that off a thread somewhere, It's been too long for me to remember. But still, I look like to see that increased! :)

But at 150k players the cost is $15 a month, that many people have already stated they're unwilling to pay long term, so they aren't willing to give Jagex there money now are they? well at least not long term enough for Jagex to see any profits after initial set up + monthly wages.


Quest Cape Achieved 10/08/2012

TFU: Ruinous Edge

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A piece of glass in the sand under your feet, it cuts you deep and it makes you hate the beauty that you see.

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I used partyhats as an example of a way people show off something they worked hard for or that is hard to obtain. I already know they may not be in the 2007 scape.

 

I used 99 woodcutting as an example of how skills have become easier to attain a higher level. I used that as an example because I know of the ivy update; and its xp rate/difficulty compaired to earlier methods.

We've been over the problems of equating time to difficulty. In truth, the only real difference in complexity between cutting yews for 99 woodcutting and chopping ivies is that with yews you have to bank every now and then. Because that's so much more difficult. Spending more time on something might make it more tedious and might mean it takes longer to reach the end point, but it certainly does not make it more difficult.

 

In any case, this argument's going around in circles. You think that time = difficulty. I don't. We're not going to reach an agreement here.

 

I have not said anything about the state of the new combat system. So why are you lecturing me about it personally. Saying I have problems with it...?

Because you did talk about the state of the new combat system:

[hide]

Why do people like EOC? The whole point of runescape was that you had to earn everything for yourself. Not be spoon-fed [bleep] xp. I think it's supposed to be a game where you have to work hard to achieve something.
[/hide]

 

If you're going to deny making any comment, I'd suggest learning what you've already written in black and white first.

 

Edit: Speaking of combat systems; do you think this game currently has the best combat system out of every MMO?

I don't have enough experience of other MMOs to know. I'm not here to defend RuneScape or defend EoC, I'm just highlighting the issue that your argument seems to hold no consistency when weighed against any real scrutiny.

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But what if a vocal minority wants changes made? Or if they don't want the ease of use features added? What happens then? How is it to be determined that such changes are or are not to be made?

 

There's always someone - there's always a group - who will say, "Ya know, it'd be better if it had 'X' ..."

 

And when they don't get it, they throw a hissy over it.

 

How do you propose this be handled?

You handle it by telling them to shut up. If it's more than a minority they can call a yes/no poll.

 

As for updates, there probably would be a few that benefit the game such as that log out timer, which from what people are saying, will log you out after 1.5 mins. I hope they increase it to 5 mins.

 

Last time we told them to shut up, some nong on YT made a petition* and BOOM. 07SCAPE IS BACK.


 

[bleep] OFF HOW ARE U SO [bleep]ING LUCKY U PIECE OF [bleep]ING SHIT [bleep] [bleep] [wagon] MUNCHER

 

 

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But at 150k players the cost is $15 a month, that many people have already stated they're unwilling to pay long term, so they aren't willing to give Jagex there money now are they? well at least not long term enough for Jagex to see any profits after initial set up + monthly wages.

 

Like I said, I was using a modest estimate. Saying only 150k players will play 07scape if it gets over 250k votes is being modest.

 

I did that because:

a) We can't obviously predict accurate numbers.

b) To emphasize that this will still be very financially viable for Jagex with smaller numbers.

 

Last time we told them to shut up, some nong on YT made a petition* and BOOM. 07SCAPE IS BACK.

Because it obviously sounded like a good idea for Jagex, and maybe this minority isn't so small after all.

 

Also why does it matter, it's not like it's affecting the game you still want to play, you seem to dislike the people who are for 07scape so if they stop complaining and start playing 07scape how will that affect you?

 

This is a NEW game we're talking about, not updating a huge element of an existing game. It's like isolating the "problem". And that's a big difference.

 

And to give a further answer to the question I was replying to, so what if people in 07scape start complaining about wanting or not wanting update x. You will be happy in main RS not to care about it?


nabsigmar2011.png

[spoiler=My 99s (7)]9,638th to 99 Fletching ~ 29th January 2007

737th to 99 Hunter ~ 2nd July 2007

910th to 99 Agility ~ 28th January 2008

59,467th to 99 Defence ~ 23rd December 2009

92,762nd to 99 Hitpoints ~ 26th June 2010

102,704th to 99 Attack ~ 29th June 2010

144,091st to 99 Strength ~ 29th June 2010

 

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Last time we told them to shut up, some nong on YT made a petition* and BOOM. 07SCAPE IS BACK.

Because it obviously sounded like a good idea for Jagex, and maybe this minority isn't so small after all.

 

Yeah they are so not a small minority look how out of the 1.8mil or w/e it is active accounts jagex said they have the vote its flatlining below 200k!

 

They are clearly a massive majority like those 3 people I saw in the park on saturday saying the world when end when your trex overlords rise next week are clearly speaking for the majority of humanity in general; cause you know 3 people its a majority of the 8 billion.


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Operation Gold Sparkles :: Chompy Kills ::  Full Profound :: Champions :: Barbarian Notes :: Champions Tackle Box :: MA Rewards

Dragonkin Journals :: Ports Stories :: Elder Chronicles :: Boss Slayer :: Penance King :: Kal'gerion Titles :: Gold Statue

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I don't want updates to 2007scape. But if the interest was there (a big enough playerbase to eventually 'wear out' the existing content), then there should be polls for which updates to be implemented. Obviously, this is to avoid a vocal minority getting their way (ironic, huh?), and to steer 2007scape in the direction the players wanted the real game to go.

The problem is players are so fickle and opinionated, that if Jagex left runescape's advancement up to what players wanted this game wouldn't have made it to 2007, and be long gone by now. I canb't see the playerbase wearing out the existing content for years easily, seeing how long it would take to max out skills such as slayer.

I had a rather lenghty post written, but the bottom line was basically that I agree. My English isn't good enough to accurately describe what I think about this, so I'll just leave it here! :)


Sorry if I skip words in my sentences from time to time. My brain tends to be a step or two ahead of my fingers when I type.

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Last time we told them to shut up, some nong on YT made a petition* and BOOM. 07SCAPE IS BACK.

Because it obviously sounded like a good idea for Jagex, and maybe this minority isn't so small after all.

 

Yeah they are so not a small minority look how out of the 1.8mil or w/e it is active accounts jagex said they have the vote its flatlining below 200k!

 

They are clearly a massive majority like those 3 people I saw in the park on saturday saying the world when end when your trex overlords rise next week are clearly speaking for the majority of humanity in general; cause you know 3 people its a majority of the 8 billion.

Firstly, hasn't it already been accepted that there aren't 1.8 million paying members? Don't the highscores consist of many trial accounts and bots?

 

Secondly, way to take things out of context, because I was clearly saying that those who want the 07scape are the "massive majority".

 

No, I said they are "not a small minority". 150k people have already voted. 150,000 individuals is not a small number of people to be playing one game. Again... 150,000 people! And that is from paying members. Who are the people paying members? Those who enjoy runescape as it is now.; those who aren't as likely to enjoy the idea of 07scape.

 

Part of the reason of 07scape is to bring back the people who have lost interest in the main RS... like me! I wasn't part of the majority or minority who were asking Jagex for one thing or another. I came when I heard about the vote. This "minority" which you think aren't valuable to Jagex have already started to bring back many retired players.

 

Why is this even a matter of debate? It is only win-win. If people don't care about it why are they spending time arguing against something that doesn't impact them?


nabsigmar2011.png

[spoiler=My 99s (7)]9,638th to 99 Fletching ~ 29th January 2007

737th to 99 Hunter ~ 2nd July 2007

910th to 99 Agility ~ 28th January 2008

59,467th to 99 Defence ~ 23rd December 2009

92,762nd to 99 Hitpoints ~ 26th June 2010

102,704th to 99 Attack ~ 29th June 2010

144,091st to 99 Strength ~ 29th June 2010

 

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Nabbagad, they call us "Delusional" but they keep thinking there are 1.8 million member subscriptions. I proved them wrong a few pages back, but they won't understand. Mmany accounts are still on the Highscores list who aren't even members anymore! This is not even counting the trialists who are at least 1 million.

 

What is happening here is clear. They know EOCscape will go from 80k online users to 40k at peak time if not less and 60k to 20k at normal hours.

 

The reason why we will barely get to 250k, much less 750k, is that JaGeX does not have enough members.

 

 

It was a Marketing Ploy from the begenning.


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Last time we told them to shut up, some nong on YT made a petition* and BOOM. 07SCAPE IS BACK.

Because it obviously sounded like a good idea for Jagex, and maybe this minority isn't so small after all.

 

Yeah they are so not a small minority look how out of the 1.8mil or w/e it is active accounts jagex said they have the vote its flatlining below 200k!

 

They are clearly a massive majority like those 3 people I saw in the park on saturday saying the world when end when your trex overlords rise next week are clearly speaking for the majority of humanity in general; cause you know 3 people its a majority of the 8 billion.

Firstly, hasn't it already been accepted that there aren't 1.8 million paying members? Don't the highscores consist of many trial accounts and bots?

 

Secondly, way to take things out of context, because I was clearly saying that those who want the 07scape are the "massive majority".

 

No, I said they are "not a small minority". 150k people have already voted. 150,000 individuals is not a small number of people to be playing one game. Again... 150,000 people! And that is from paying members. Who are the people paying members? Those who enjoy runescape as it is now.; those who aren't as likely to enjoy the idea of 07scape.

 

Part of the reason of 07scape is to bring back the people who have lost interest in the main RS... like me! I wasn't part of the majority or minority who were asking Jagex for one thing or another. I came when I heard about the vote. This "minority" which you think aren't valuable to Jagex have already started to bring back many retired players.

 

Why is this even a matter of debate? It is only win-win. If people don't care about it why are they spending time arguing against something that doesn't impact them?

 

The size of a minority or majority is relative to the whole.

In the context of runescape 150k is still a small minority.

 

Also I'd note no-one is actually arguing against it at this point, people are only 'arguing' (if we must use the term) against people making wild unsubstantiated claims be it tekno's delusional 'proof' of member numbers or people insisting it should be cheaper without reaching the threshold set without considering the costs required to run something like this.

 

Or most specifically many are arguing against the notion that we should all vote anyway to 'help out others' which many supporters insist upon, seeing as the vote is to gauge interest in playing so those of us with no intent to play certainly should not be voting to falsify the numbers and potential cause Jagex to launch it a threshold which is not financially viable which would in fact hurt the live game somewhat due to the lose inccured


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Operation Gold Sparkles :: Chompy Kills ::  Full Profound :: Champions :: Barbarian Notes :: Champions Tackle Box :: MA Rewards

Dragonkin Journals :: Ports Stories :: Elder Chronicles :: Boss Slayer :: Penance King :: Kal'gerion Titles :: Gold Statue

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