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Ambler

2007 - Old School RuneScape... You Vote! - [It's Here!]

  

  1. 1. Will You Vote for 2007 Runescape?

    • Yes
      33
    • No
      30
    • I'm F2P
      8
  2. 2. Will you play on 2007 Servers?

    • Yes
      37
    • No
      27
    • I'm F2p, so no
      4
    • I'm F2P, but would subscribe
      4


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Well all in all, Jagex's latest stunt just shows what I posted on this topic in the very beggining - The decision about bringing 2007Scape back has been made´way before the poll. The poll was given to us just to give us an illusion of choice. The game is rigged people (commence scary cosnpiracy theorist' music) and nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care (Quote from George Carlin btw)

 

In either case, I don't really care, I am just pissed that they weren't upfront about it. They could've just said, "Hey, we're brining 2007scape back, pay extra 5$ or gtfo", instead of spouting all that BS about "gauging player interest."

 

Lol, the community has been screaming "Bring back the Old School Days" for a long time. They don't need to gauge anything.


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Well all in all, Jagex's latest stunt just shows what I posted on this topic in the very beggining - The decision about bringing 2007Scape back has been made´way before the poll. The poll was given to us just to give us an illusion of choice. The game is rigged people (commence scary cosnpiracy theorist' music) and nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care (Quote from George Carlin btw)

 

In either case, I don't really care, I am just pissed that they weren't upfront about it. They could've just said, "Hey, we're brining 2007scape back, pay extra 5$ or gtfo", instead of spouting all that BS about "gauging player interest."

 

Lol, the community has been screaming "Bring back the Old School Days" for a long time. They don't need to gauge anything.

How many people screamed that? I didn't.

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When I say it will be cheap to implement, I mean relatively cheap compared to what they are currently earning and spending. Some of the overhead costs are already covered.

 

This isn't a perfect example, but look at some of the recent RS updates, they would have teams of developers and QA and all that working on the content and you could calculate their hourly costs and how that new content actually cost Jagex. From my experiences, a lot of content doesn't get used often, and doesn't suddenly make thousands of old players rejoin.

 

Yes, you can calculate hourly costs for a major project by keeping track of engineering effort...but what does that have to do with old players rejoining?

 

The potential for this small investment is HUGE.

 

Say option 250k happens and there are 150,000 willing 07scape players. That will be $750,000 a month just from the extra $5 fee. BUT there will be lots of people (like myself included), who will only be paying to play 07scape, and for me that's an extra $10 they are earning because of this 07scape investment.

 

Lets say for example out of these 150,000 players, there are 30,000 people who have returned just to play 07scape (not main RS). To be fair I'll go by the $8 US membership cost, that's another $240,000 per month, which brings the revenue to about $1Million a month. (and I am trying to be modest with these figures, if you think my modest estimates are way off, please let me know, and give me your figures to calculate).

 

First, the reward is large, I won't deny that, but the risk is just as, if not, larger.

 

However, I prefer to take a more conservative approach to estimates, and 150K players seems way too optimistic. I'd be willing to go as high as 20% of that number, which is a crazy high ballpark, but not more. The reason I say that is twofold - you can have a large number of players voting, but that doesn't mean they'll follow through with it, or be willing to pay the extra cash for it month after month. You'll have a lot of people just drop off the bandwagon and find something else to do/complain about.

 

30,000 players is optimistic, even for me, and that's only if everything goes flawlessly. You would have to convince not only the players that voted for this to pay their dues, but also those that abstained, as well as those that are optimistically ambivalent.

 

The catch here is keeping them. You can expect it to be as jam-packed as RSC was when the floodgates were first opened, then you can watch the numbers trail off by a lot when they realize that it's not nearly as technically advanced, rewarding (from their perspective), or enjoyable (again, from their perspective) as RS proper.

 

My gut tells me that, regardless of the tier, you'd get 5,000 dedicated players. You'd also get 10,000 enthusiasts; people that'd be interested in the game just as a fleeting fancy. Well, $225K isn't much to sneeze at, but it isn't enough to cover all of the costs to make this happen. Jagex would be swallowing the costs of the project for $5/mo, which - with that level of interest - would barely pay for the dev needed to maintain it in a month.

 

There's obviously many, many variables to take into account, such as people leaving after a month, more people joining, etc, but this $1million a month will easily cover the costs, and even if the numbers start to decline, the overhead of setting up 07scape has already been occurred and it will only be the on-going server costs and support (which will also easily be covered by membership costs even if the numbers decline by 75%).

 

So yes, like I said in an earlier thread, this is cheap for Jagex, with such HUGE potential for a great return. Jagex in past have spent so many resources working on failed content like that mechscape thing, so this tiny investment seems almost crazy not to take advantage of, when so many people have showed interest.

 

Despite the hype, you have to lower your expectations by quite a bit. For every ten people that chirp up, maybe 2 or 3 of them will actually follow through with it. Even less will continue to stick with it.

 

Developing software just isn't cheap. No matter how you slice it, it still costs a lot of money. And again, I'm only talking the personnel costs here - if we were to talk archiving/SAN, we'd be adding on another $30K easily - and that's for the hardware alone.

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185k!

Ok I am starting to wonder, do you notice that no one really pays attention to what you say ?

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185k!

Ok I am starting to wonder, do you notice that no one really pays attention to what you say ?

Apparently you just did.

 

I'm like the only active supporter on here. I was thinking Tip.it would be the same but times have really changed lol.


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185k!

Ok I am starting to wonder, do you notice that no one really pays attention to what you say ?

Apparently you just did.

 

I'm like the only active supporter on here. I was thinking Tip.it would be the same but times have really changed lol.

 

There are other supporters here. I think the main reason why people are ignoring it is because this is not Youtube, spamming every 5, 10, or 20k milestone is not necessary. When it reaches a real milestone, such as the 250k 500k or 750 ones, then people would probably find it noteworthy.

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Well all in all, Jagex's latest stunt just shows what I posted on this topic in the very beggining - The decision about bringing 2007Scape back has been made´way before the poll. The poll was given to us just to give us an illusion of choice. The game is rigged people (commence scary cosnpiracy theorist' music) and nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care (Quote from George Carlin btw)

 

In either case, I don't really care, I am just pissed that they weren't upfront about it. They could've just said, "Hey, we're brining 2007scape back, pay extra 5$ or gtfo", instead of spouting all that BS about "gauging player interest."

 

I don't think so, otherwise they wouldn't have given different options and levels of support for the game based on the amount of votes. I think they really are trying to gauge player interest. Personally I think they should've just done 2012 scape and let people vote for that, I'm sure it would easily reach 750k votes (assuming there are an adequate number of members). But if they did that EOC would probably die. Especially if they transferred current account stats/banks.

 

Gaugin player interest is making a poll and keeping it running. Gauging player interest is NOT however showing it down everyone's throat and seemingly acticng against the company's own best interest.

 

You have to realise that if they really wanted to gauge interest they wouldn't need to jam it down our throats with a sledgehammer, because the people who would be INTERESTED would know where to go to for voting purposes. And yes, putting it up in our log in screens with an eays button to click to instavote, is indeed slamming it down our throats. Also if they were indeed gaugin interest, why on earth would the actively encourgae the RS population to give false votes that don't give any real evidence to prove or disprove the interest in 2007Scape. - Encouraging people who are not interested to vote to 'help their friends' is indeed encouraging the player base to give false data.

 

I have been playing this game for ~12 years and I have been working in a big corporation for the last 5 years, so I know how things work from the inside. I have been Jagex' supporter for a long time, even though they make a metric [bleep]ton of mistakes. But the blatant lying is getting somewhat tiring.


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There are plenty of supporters, and they have made their points pages back. After this many pages of discussion, there isn't much else needed besides watch to see what the final result is.


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There are plenty of supporters, and they have made their points pages back. After this many pages of discussion, there isn't much else needed besides watch to see what the final result is.

 

Indeed, everyone have made a point about their support or lack of for 2007Scape.

 

However, there is a long and interesting discussion to be had as to why Jagex is doing it and I can assure you it has nothing to do with keeping the player base's best interests in mind.


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Well all in all, Jagex's latest stunt just shows what I posted on this topic in the very beggining - The decision about bringing 2007Scape back has been made´way before the poll. The poll was given to us just to give us an illusion of choice. The game is rigged people (commence scary cosnpiracy theorist' music) and nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care (Quote from George Carlin btw)

 

In either case, I don't really care, I am just pissed that they weren't upfront about it. They could've just said, "Hey, we're brining 2007scape back, pay extra 5$ or gtfo", instead of spouting all that BS about "gauging player interest."

 

Lol, the community has been screaming "Bring back the Old School Days" for a long time. They don't need to gauge anything.

How many people screamed that? I didn't.

 

185,472 people, apparently. :P


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There are also some people like me who will play 07 servers that aren't signing up to vote just because they're offering the first month free ;)

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There are plenty of supporters, and they have made their points pages back. After this many pages of discussion, there isn't much else needed besides watch to see what the final result is.

 

Indeed, everyone have made a point about their support or lack of for 2007Scape.

 

However, there is a long and interesting discussion to be had as to why Jagex is doing it and I can assure you it has nothing to do with keeping the player base's best interests in mind.

 

Jagex doing good obviously worries me, but Jagex has stated that 2013 is the year of the player and they want to make sure we players are happy.


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There are also some people like me who will play 07 servers that aren't signing up to vote just because they're offering the first month free wink.png

 

It's only free if you vote. So you have to be a member.


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Yes, you can calculate hourly costs for a major project by keeping track of engineering effort...but what does that have to do with old players rejoining?

Okay I admit I wasn't completely clear with what I was talking about. There is a developing cost for new content, right? Because players value content differently, and some content will have more of an affect on the players than other content, it is possible to calculate how valuable different content updates are. There is definitely content in RS that is rarely used, and so the costs of developing that content did not bring back worthy gains.

 

Just looking at the main RS page, I doubt the sinkholes content is going to spark huge interest in retired runescape players, it's not going to suddenly bring in a lot of new players. This 07scape has created a lot of talk, and a lot of talk from retired players who express interest in returning, so the developing costs for 07scape is likely to be a lot more valuable than just your average RS update.

 

First, the reward is large, I won't deny that, but the risk is just as, if not, larger.

 

However, I prefer to take a more conservative approach to estimates, and 150K players seems way too optimistic. I'd be willing to go as high as 20% of that number, which is a crazy high ballpark, but not more. The reason I say that is twofold - you can have a large number of players voting, but that doesn't mean they'll follow through with it, or be willing to pay the extra cash for it month after month. You'll have a lot of people just drop off the bandwagon and find something else to do/complain about.

 

30,000 players is optimistic, even for me, and that's only if everything goes flawlessly. You would have to convince not only the players that voted for this to pay their dues, but also those that abstained, as well as those that are optimistically ambivalent.

 

The catch here is keeping them. You can expect it to be as jam-packed as RSC was when the floodgates were first opened, then you can watch the numbers trail off by a lot when they realize that it's not nearly as technically advanced, rewarding (from their perspective), or enjoyable (again, from their perspective) as RS proper.

 

My gut tells me that, regardless of the tier, you'd get 5,000 dedicated players. You'd also get 10,000 enthusiasts; people that'd be interested in the game just as a fleeting fancy. Well, $225K isn't much to sneeze at, but it isn't enough to cover all of the costs to make this happen. Jagex would be swallowing the costs of the project for $5/mo, which - with that level of interest - would barely pay for the dev needed to maintain it in a month.

I'm not going to pretend I can estimate how many people can play, but I find your 5k dedicated and 10k enthusiasts to be quite pessimistic.

 

Despite the hype, you have to lower your expectations by quite a bit. For every ten people that chirp up, maybe 2 or 3 of them will actually follow through with it. Even less will continue to stick with it.

 

Developing software just isn't cheap. No matter how you slice it, it still costs a lot of money. And again, I'm only talking the personnel costs here - if we were to talk archiving/SAN, we'd be adding on another $30K easily - and that's for the hardware alone.

Yes developing costs are expensive, but the content has already been developed! Suddenly this huge development cost has disappeared. It will only be a small team to basically set it up, yes there will be a tiny bit of development, but compared to the actual content, that is ready to go. Also, you seem to be forgetting more overhead costs that don't have to be considered, Jagex already have deals with server providers and everything for current RS, will these current providers give away the potential to get a lot more business from Jagex? Of course not, there will likely be cheaper costs since Jagex will be an on-going customer.

 

Development costs are expensive, but the content has been developed!

Overhead can be expensive, but most of it has already been covered!

 

The main costs involved will be the running costs, which is relatively cheap. There will be a bit of development overhead to get the servers ready and started, but than other than that there isn't too much more, especially compared to main RS.

 

So yes, an individual looking at the costs of running 07scape will think it sounds expensive, but for Jagex it will be relatively cheap (not to mention the likely potential gains).

 

 

And to finish off, if this 07scape turns out to be a huge flop and waste of time and money, Jagex will brush it off and move on. You wont notice a thing (if there was real risk in this it wouldn't be given the chance).


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185,472 people, apparently. :P

 

Accounts. Assuming, of course, 1 vote/account which may not have been the case I understand to begin with (cache clear etc).


 

[bleep] OFF HOW ARE U SO [bleep]ING LUCKY U PIECE OF [bleep]ING SHIT [bleep] [bleep] [wagon] MUNCHER

 

 

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Accounts. Assuming, of course, 1 vote/account which may not have been the case I understand to begin with (cache clear etc).

 

A lot of people have stated you can vote multiple times, however you cannot, I am unsure why people on YouTube and such keep claiming that. I tested it on my computer at work, which I have never logged in on before, so fresh IP + never been on the site, so no cookies related to RS at all, and I was unable to vote.


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185,472 people, apparently. :P

 

Accounts. Assuming, of course, 1 vote/account which may not have been the case I understand to begin with (cache clear etc).

 

That's misinformation spread by people with trouble reading. If you do clear cache/cookies etc. the message reads: Thank you, you have already registered your support, which is not the case the first time you vote and it actually does register your vote.


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500k votes is minimum to keep it alive in long run or else most ppl just "test out" it in first free month and then abadon it and it become next "dead rsc" that only handful of ppl actively play.

750k votes would keep it alive and populated...voting is just stupid they should just add features from 750k and see how it goes

 

jagex killed classic also...first by removing f2p and account creation, then set login rules and hide it well from main page....i would had personally played it longer if there were ppl but its now like single player game

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And to finish off, if this 07scape turns out to be a huge flop and waste of time and money, Jagex will brush it off and move on. You wont notice a thing (if there was real risk in this it wouldn't be given the chance).

Because that attitude worked so well with the RSC relaunch and the failed MechScape project. I've forgotten exactly how much that cost... in the end is was around £1m wasn't it? This won't cost anywhere near £1m for obvious reasons, but the point is still there. Companies usually try to avoid the habit of pissing money into the wind on failed ventures. Jagex seem to think they're exceptional to this rule.

 

I'm not saying this will waste money; I'm highlighting that if it does, it's really not in their interest to do so, contrary to their current course of action.

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185,472 people, apparently. :P

 

Accounts. Assuming, of course, 1 vote/account which may not have been the case I understand to begin with (cache clear etc).

 

That's misinformation spread by people with trouble reading. If you do clear cache/cookies etc. the message reads: Thank you, you have already registered your support, which is not the case the first time you vote and it actually does register your vote.

 

Was that the case early on? (Not disputing what you are saying, as much as an argument about it is fun).


 

[bleep] OFF HOW ARE U SO [bleep]ING LUCKY U PIECE OF [bleep]ING SHIT [bleep] [bleep] [wagon] MUNCHER

 

 

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185,472 people, apparently. :P

 

Accounts. Assuming, of course, 1 vote/account which may not have been the case I understand to begin with (cache clear etc).

 

That's misinformation spread by people with trouble reading. If you do clear cache/cookies etc. the message reads: Thank you, you have already registered your support, which is not the case the first time you vote and it actually does register your vote.

 

Was that the case early on? (Not disputing what you are saying, as much as an argument about it is fun).

 

Yes it was the case early on, the fact you have to be logged in to vote means it is storing the vote check mark in your account data, not just the cache. All the cache file is doing is triggering alternate code for the vote pages that doen't display the vote button; hence its being removed causes the button to re-appear but trying to vote again hits the check within your account and thus outputs you have already voted and recreates the cache file.


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Honestly, a word toward current discussion: This was preplanned, and anyone who thinks other wise should reread the FAQ. Most of the questions are answered in past/present tense, not future tense. But in the post saying there will be a vote coming out soon, they said they found it that very weekend, some of the answers even say "We have been working on this for a while", connected chats in FAQ is a good example.

 

So what if it's preplanned? Basically, they are a company, and are thinking ahead, they were doing this with or without our vote, but I bet last second discided: "Hey lets get some starter money, by making people vote for it, and get some classic players back at the same time". It's all apart of this scheme that it's 'our' year, and 'our' word.

 

While I do not disagree with them, or their reasonings, I feel they have a solid plan for the future of it, and are/were confident in it, however in their newest post, you can see a bit of nervousness when they state "The poll is going slow now" yet we reached 50k, so now they are forced to do it.

 

I honestly have no idea what my point is, I had one when I started typing, so if you get anything out of this cool, if not, sorry. xD

I got side tracked by texting a few times lol.

 

Would love to hear some feedback on my opinions though?


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Honestly, a word toward current discussion: This was preplanned, and anyone who thinks other wise should reread the FAQ. Most of the questions are answered in past/present tense, not future tense. But in the post saying there will be a vote coming out soon, they said they found it that very weekend, some of the answers even say "We have been working on this for a while", connected chats in FAQ is a good example.

 

So what if it's preplanned? Basically, they are a company, and are thinking ahead, they were doing this with or without our vote, but I bet last second discided: "Hey lets get some starter money, by making people vote for it, and get some classic players back at the same time". It's all apart of this scheme that it's 'our' year, and 'our' word.

 

While I do not disagree with them, or their reasonings, I feel they have a solid plan for the future of it, and are/were confident in it, however in their newest post, you can see a bit of nervousness when they state "The poll is going slow now" yet we reached 50k, so now they are forced to do it.

 

I honestly have no idea what my point is, I had one when I started typing, so if you get anything out of this cool, if not, sorry. xD

Would love to hear some feedback on my opinions though?

 

Pretty much agree with this.

 

The small group made a lot of noise - Jagex was slightly foolish and thought the group was much larger.

They found and planned to launch 07scape, but threw up a poll to make it seem like the weren't just bending to the whim of a few vocal people but letting us have the chance to say what we wanted whilst automatically assuming it would sail through to at least 250k votes if not higher (which is where it becomes feasible the price tier would actually garner players)

The vote revealed the vocal group were smaller than Jagex thought with the vote flat-lining all too quickly and in danger of not reaching the target they need/want.

Jagex had to get creative with splashing adverts and front page vote buttons all over the shop and try and give the vote just enough life to limp past the goal they require or risk facing the reality that they either have to go back on their word and implement it cheaper/ not do it or follow the vote full well knowing no-one will pay that much and it's a wasted project.

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So what if it's preplanned? Basically, they are a company, and are thinking ahead, they were doing this with or without our vote, but I bet last second discided: "Hey lets get some starter money, by making people vote for it, and get some classic players back at the same time". It's all apart of this scheme that it's 'our' year, and 'our' word.

I think in that sense, a month is too long. You need to give enough time for reel the customers back in, but not so much that they'd become too satisfied after the first playthrough and decide not to renew their subscription. A week would have been better, certainly in my experience of having to make a second account (in 2009), after a week I'd settled into the game mechanics and I'd started to invest in my character's development. After a month, weariness had started to creep in, and my choice to play the game had boiled down to a "reward vs effort" balance in my own mind.

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