Tip.It Times Tip.It Times - 17th February 2013

[tripsis]

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[Flodder450]

Good read!

 

I think the same about the 2007 servers.

[Nabbagad]

@2007

 

I'd just like to start by saying I haven't played/been a member for almost 2 years now. That's because of a few reasons, but I never actually decided "that's it, I'm out", it was a gradual thing (and not because I wasn't happy with the state of the game).

 

I've invested a huge amount of time into the game since 2004, so I never really want to lose all contact with RS. So naturally, from time to time I've checked the site for updates and such.

 

It was my brother who found out about 2007scape, and of course, the glorious thoughts of nostalgia emerged. But I am well aware of the negatives of 'trying to live in the past', much like what was discussed in the article, there is no way it is going to feel exactly the same, which is a good thing.

 

The big thing that stood out to me was the starting fresh idea. Again, like you said in the article, only those who were there when RS started know what it's like, but obviously it's not even comparable to that.

 

Here we're going to have thousands of people starting in the same place with no resources or money, everyone knows the game inside out, it will be amazing to see what happens.

 

It's great that the high level stuff wont exist for a long, long time. It will be awesome to find someone wearing full rune or to find someone wearing a dragon full helm or wielding a whip. I seriously doubt it will be a long, long time before we get these items, as I can imagine right now there will be plenty of people planning on rushing to be the first to achieve something, but yes the rarer items becoming mainstream will take a long, long time.

 

After a few days of these thoughts, my excitement has grown, I am actually excited to play RuneScape again! (something I didn't think would happen again). I'm thinking of all the possibilities; what will I do when I first get out of tutorial island? Kill cows? Will it be crowded? Imagine the rush for all this early level content, I find the idea awesomely crazy!

 

Without going into the stupid way Jagex has gone about this with the poll, yes I became a member yesterday to vote. As much as I used to love RuneScape, I can't see myself getting back into the main game (unless of course 07scape triggers me back into it!).

 

I had always fully supported Jagex and their decisions during my time playing, but I admit being away and looking at a few things they've done in the last 2 years, even minor things like the look of the runescape website has slightly turned me off the game and chance of a return. Instead of keeping its unique look, it went and copied what ever other MMO website looks like. No f2p in hiscores? And the hiscores is incredibly difficult to read. When I logged in yesterday, pushing the spinning wheel in my face (pay-to-win micro-transactions), as well as getting achievements for the smallest of tasks in game (taking a step, running, talking to a bank, depositing items in the bank, withdrawing items from a bank, walking into varrock, teleporting, chopping a tree, mining a rock etc etc), it just went on and on; an annoying message popping up telling me I've done something special, when I had done all of these things thousands of times before.

 

Anyway I don't want to make this a rant, the point is RuneScape seems to have changed (in a negative direction for me, for the first time ever) so much in just the last two years (and I'm not even talking about this EoC thing that everyone is on about, as I don't really know anything about it to make an opinion) that I can't see myself playing the game anymore. But 07scape? Almost just for the reason of starting afresh, in an excitingly competitive game... I can't wait to play.

 

Jagex found a way to bring me back and start paying members again.

[Sylpheed]

It's refreshing to read a different viewpoint on the subject, thanks Nabbagad. In all honesty, I can see exactly where you are coming from and were I in your position I would probably do the same thing.

[V O R K]

Alg did I inspire you when talking about D2: hardcore mode? Runescape is too slow to implent this.

[Alg]

Alg did I inspire you when talking about D2: hardcore mode? Runescape is too slow to implent this.

I don't think I was around for that one.

[thejollyroger]

regarding "2007":

yet, one of the main gameplay aspects 2007 die-hards want is a quite rightly, working player killing mechanic

 

This is yet another reason why I make comparisons to arguments for RS1 (Classic) that were made shortly before and after the RS2 beta. At the risk of repeating myself, that's what the arguments were about: the supposed superiority of PKing in Classic. I'm not buying it. Besides, just one Times set ago, Dracae said this in "Don't Split the Community":

The best PKers of my clan had a bit of a problem adjusting, but are running around Wildy owning others again

 

So, which is it? Can you remember "catching" in Classic? Shall we rehash the pros and cons of multi-way combat entering the game, particularly the Wilderness? And then, the ability to switch from Single-Way to Multi and back again with EoC? I have yet to be convinced. Yes, I understand some haven't been playing that long-- it's okay. Still, understand I see so many old similarities...

 

At best, EoC destroyed a lot of the market for skillers and that catches my attention more. The "Combat" in the name is apt enough. But while I would think the 2007 market might be more level, I am loathe to go back to the old interfaces. And here is where I say while I am glad to have left the click-fail-click-fail repetition of Classic (Fishing and Mining mostly), I don't recall 2007 being too much better. Why players want repetitive stress injuries (RSI) is beyond me...

 

regarding "No More Revolving Door of the Afterlife":

 

 

Alg did I inspire you when talking about D2: hardcore mode? Runescape is too slow to implent this.

I don't think I was around for that one.

 

But the idea *does* smell of Diablo 2. Finally, there is a comparison of Blizzard's *other* game That Is Not Warcraft 1-3 or World Of.

 

Instead of keeping its unique look, it went and copied what ever other MMO website looks like.

 

But see, that's just the point! *snap snap* Jagex has been borrowing ideas for a long time, and that's including the game. The hitpoints bar IS influenced by Blizzard's Diablo 1 & 2 games-- no question, and it's been around since Classic, so... since 2001. I get what you're driving at, but I think it needs to be understood Runescape was NEVER 100% original ideas. And that rather comes with the territory of gaming, all the way back to the midways and arcades. Even before videogaming-- to pinball. Pen, paper, and dice stuff. Ideas get reused all the time... is your point that Jagex should be much more sly about it?

 

Anyways, I admit I never really played D2 Multiplayer, but, Alg, I'm not so sure how your idea works for RS in particular. If Runescape was purely combat focused-- like the Diablo games-- maybe I could see it. Don't know how much it exists outside of Single Player modes; I am rather unaware of how many MMOs actually do it. Wish my experience stretched back to the original iteration of Runescape, where PK could be done anywhere, and I was told that even then it was limited: PKer or nonPKer. It'd be more relevant, I think. Someone help me out here. All I can remember at best was when PK-anywhere worlds from RS1/Classic were brought into the main game. 75k player killing, brawler gloves, and all that. Seemed to collapse harder than Bounty Hunter did. Seriously though, an idea like that, I think, would have more traction on those sort of worlds... and at best, I think "hardcore" would be limited to the wilderness. Still, though, I need an honest example of where this is done for a game that compares to Runescape, more especially on the non-combat side.

 

And which would it be implemented on? Post-EoC Runescape, or 2007 Runescape? If they've kept the PK worlds, I'd be interested to hear a Jagex dev say which was easier.

 

Yes, my tired old line again-- "think like a developer".

[SwreeTak]

About the first article: Much of how this game works recently seems to come from a small, but loud, part of the community. I think 2007Scape is going to split community, and even though it might be fun for some time for a lot of players, it won't last long. I don't really mind it that very much Jagex puts down some effort on retrieving RS v.2007. But I think that it would have been smarter of them to focus on the current game. This effort of theirs might get some players to return, but it still isn't worth it. Wait and see, I am fairly sure that these servers will be rather dead after just a few weeks.

 

About the second one: An interesting idea for sure. I would love to try out a server like this, but I don't think it will be implemented.

[Sylpheed]

the EoC destroyed a lot of the market for skillers

 

Would you mind giving some examples? I'm not calling you a liar, but I find your statement to be quite overstated. If anything, it should say 'EoC destroyed whatever skilling market that still existed'.

 

Skilling hasn't been competitively profitable since before Godwars existed.

[Melo]

Skilling hasn't been competitively profitable since before Godwars existed.

And it's gonna be dang good to have that back! Profitable skilling, that is!

[Nabbagad]

Instead of keeping its unique look, it went and copied what ever other MMO website looks like.

 

But see, that's just the point! *snap snap* Jagex has been borrowing ideas for a long time, and that's including the game. The hitpoints bar IS influenced by Blizzard's Diablo 1 & 2 games-- no question, and it's been around since Classic, so... since 2001. I get what you're driving at, but I think it needs to be understood Runescape was NEVER 100% original ideas. And that rather comes with the territory of gaming, all the way back to the midways and arcades. Even before videogaming-- to pinball. Pen, paper, and dice stuff. Ideas get reused all the time... is your point that Jagex should be much more sly about it?

I'm not claiming runescape was 100% original ideas, but RuneScape did have it's own identity and they really were a market leader in MMOs and somehow they seem to have taken a step back and follow the trends of others. I am not at all claiming that RuneScape was ever 100% original, nor am I saying they shouldn't use good ideas.

 

I just feel that they did create a unique RuneScape identity and that now they are losing it.

 

And I don't mean to start a rant and most of you are probably used to it now, but do people actually like the look of the current hiscores? I find it difficult to look at. Before there was a clear page that neatly showed all levels without scrolling. Now it's full of colours and hard to read fonts and you have to scroll, etc.

 

And going with RuneScape losing part of its identity, what happened to the look of the armour? All the different types of armour seem indistinguishable now, and I cant tell them apart from the inventory images. Maybe it's just change you get used to after a while, but I really don't like it.

[Blyaunte]

Skilling hasn't been competitively profitable since before Godwars existed.

And it's gonna be dang good to have that back! Profitable skilling, that is!

 

Tell me, how is "profitable skilling" going to happen, exactly, when no one has money and everyone has pretty much the same skills?

 

And, as an aside, I am not objecting to them bringing back the 07 servers -- in my opinion, doing so will have the exact same effect as when they brought back RSC. Everyone's going to realize that that version of the game is unplayable and everyone's going to shut up about "how great it used to be" and move on ...

 

:lol:

[Alg]

But the idea *does* smell of Diablo 2. Finally, there is a comparison of Blizzard's *other* game That Is Not Warcraft 1-3 or World Of.

One of the games in question was Torchlight, actually (Which apparently has the same gameplay and same developers under a different name). A couple of friends have recently tried to get me into a WoW-style MMO with permadeath, so the concept exists for other games in the medium.

 

The intention was for a sort of high-score-rush game mode, and I admit that they'd have to make the game faster-paced for it to work (I think I mentioned that, but it might have been lost between planning and writing the thing). I would have mentioned PvP anywhere, but that wouldn't work with our current combat system, especially now that tiers work on an exponential equation - It would be too easy for the first few players who reach the top to prevent everyone else from leaving their starting cities (I've seen this in a game called Travian; the first thing a new player on a certain server would see is a message from an established group saying that they've claimed that area, and if they don't leave their settlement will be destroyed. Runescape's community has many more griefers than they did).

 

It's really more of an answer for people that say the game isn't dangerous anymore.

[Melo]

Skilling hasn't been competitively profitable since before Godwars existed.

And it's gonna be dang good to have that back! Profitable skilling, that is!

 

Tell me, how is "profitable skilling" going to happen, exactly, when no one has money and everyone has pretty much the same skills?

Yes, I "obviously" meant that skilling would be profitable from the get-go, and not when the game has a working economy.

[thejollyroger]

the EoC destroyed a lot of the market for skillers

 

Would you mind giving some examples? I'm not calling you a liar, but I find your statement to be quite overstated. If anything, it should say 'EoC destroyed whatever skilling market that still existed'.

 

Skilling hasn't been competitively profitable since before Godwars existed.

 

I am pleased that my bold highlighting stood out amidst my rambling, long-winded style. It's not easy for me to be succinct and hold everyone's attention here. But I think that you've glossed over my context. You wish to argue semantics? Then I thank you for your permission to be more precise (surely more will read now the author says it's okay?), and to expound upon what I mean.

 

Yes, you are correct that skilling has been on a long, slow decline, before bossing gained the spotlight. I suspect bossing stole attention away from PKing, at least in the clan I was once a part of. You ask, then, for an example that has put more nails in the coffin, so to speak. I think of the update that based food's LP healing on Constitution. I found I couldn't sell sharks with a decent turnaround (yes, I'm impatient, I'll sell low and buy high) and I therefore decided to save them for Spiritualise Food to buff my familiars. Effectively, it means only the highest foods sell well, and I suspect that's rocktails, and more so rocktail soup. Then again... food seemed to be not as important, not at least until Rejuvenate was nerfed. There wasn't as much demand for food, but Jagex seems to want to correct that now. Still, a bit of a 1-2 punch, savvy?

 

Potions seem to be less important than abilities; so Herblore has taken a hit again, I think. Can't seem to sell much more than prayer pots. Rather odd that Saradomin brews (more so in flasks) don't seem to sell, as they don't diminish Adrenaline like food does. Oh and of course they removed poison from weapons. While that means that the series of weapon poison potions have more use, poison is a bit insequential, now. Until Jagex adjusts it, there's not much demand for them-- or for the various antipoison potions, either. I suspect many players tank out poison much of the time, now. Then... disease was removed. I haven't read Jagex's rationale directly, but I was told that they figured it to be pointless. Is that them acknowledging that boosts are less useful now? I can't tell, until I know the code specifics of how the combat formula works post-EoC.

 

Shall I go on? Those seem to be the ones that come immediately to mind. Really now, Tip.It's had a small minority of skillers that believes they've gotten the shaft, and have said so, here, so surely, this is of interest.

 

I'm not claiming runescape was 100% original ideas, but RuneScape did have it's own identity and they really were a market leader in MMOs and somehow they seem to have taken a step back and follow the trends of others. I am not at all claiming that RuneScape was ever 100% original, nor am I saying they shouldn't use good ideas.

 

I just feel that they did create a unique RuneScape identity and that now they are losing it.

 

Runescape has been the red-headed step-child of the MMO world... or so it would seem with the old "Baby's first MMO" and "Runescape graphics suck" comments I saw littered all over the Internet.

 

Before Miniclip, there was Real Networks and Real Arcade. Runescape was cultivated by free online casual gaming. I was there. (The RealArcade ads for Runescape were pretty awesome.) For those of you that at least remember the Miniclip years (and all the whining), Runescape's main competitors seemed to be Maplestory, Habbo Hotel, and a few others I'm forgetting. They aren't on that level of competition anymore-- I seem to remember Ash saying so.

 

Yes, the comparisons to World of Warcraft came later. But it was a little while until I figured Jagex was trying to play with the "big boys", and I think was largely when Andrew, Paul, and Constance Tedder cashed out and Andrew started his R & D company. Jagex is now trying to compete mainstream-- they weren't on that level before.

 

And going with RuneScape losing part of its identity, what happened to the look of the armour? All the different types of armour seem indistinguishable now, and I cant tell them apart from the inventory images. Maybe it's just change you get used to after a while, but I really don't like it.

 

I'm not quite sure what you mean. Armor used to look very much the same, save for color. There were a lot of reworks, I think mostly with the look of helmets (what used to be called "full" and "medium")-- with each metal type, the helmet looks VERY different. Perhaps I don't see it because I remember a lot of things being reworked for looks many times.

 

One of the games in question was Torchlight, actually (Which apparently has the same gameplay and same developers under a different name). A couple of friends have recently tried to get me into a WoW-style MMO with permadeath, so the concept exists for other games in the medium.

 

The intention was for a sort of high-score-rush game mode, and I admit that they'd have to make the game faster-paced for it to work (I think I mentioned that, but it might have been lost between planning and writing the thing). I would have mentioned PvP anywhere, but that wouldn't work with our current combat system, especially now that tiers work on an exponential equation - It would be too easy for the first few players who reach the top to prevent everyone else from leaving their starting cities (I've seen this in a game called Travian; the first thing a new player on a certain server would see is a message from an established group saying that they've claimed that area, and if they don't leave their settlement will be destroyed. Runescape's community has many more griefers than they did).

 

It's really more of an answer for people that say the game isn't dangerous anymore.

 

Ah. I see. I admit I haven't been around much-- I've been on Linux for the past handful of years. Thanks for the clarification.

[Kaida23]

And going with RuneScape losing part of its identity, what happened to the look of the armour? All the different types of armour seem indistinguishable now, and I cant tell them apart from the inventory images. Maybe it's just change you get used to after a while, but I really don't like it.

 

All the armor got updated last year. Everything now has it's own distinct look, which I personally think is good. It adds loads of visual variety to the game.

[Dracae]

The first article speaks of a totaly different game, something far beyond the change we have seen till now. After thinking about it, I think it would be quite interesting, but probably comercially not feesable.

 

I totaly agree with the second article, suprice suprice., I won't detail my reasonings here, sicne I also sent in an article, which may or may not be published,. Let me say this though: 2007scape will be very diferent then the origional and likely indeed disapoint many people.

[Shady Character]

the EoC destroyed a lot of the market for skillers

 

Would you mind giving some examples? I'm not calling you a liar, but I find your statement to be quite overstated. If anything, it should say 'EoC destroyed whatever skilling market that still existed'.

 

Skilling hasn't been competitively profitable since before Godwars existed.

 

Regarding making money skilling, does anyone think this 2007scape will be completely bot free? Im surprised this hasnt surfaced in the discussion or the article. I mean I know Jagex would be implementing thier truly remarkable anti-boting software.... but seriously there are still swarms of bots everywhere and I dont think they arent going to make an appearance. Especialy with the rush to 99s and "high end" gear, there will be a market for botted goods.

 

Personaly ill check out the servers but im not staying there, ive put over 10 years into my account and I dont feel like starting over.

[Dracae]

Did anyone else laugh at this quote from the poll page: 'Our desire is to have this service open to free players too but for this we need the support of over 750,000 votes.'

 

Non sense.. if JAgex desires somthing they can do so, the limits they are talking about THEY put up .. not Obama, not Zamorak, not Bill Gates.. they did!