A dying skill?

[ohhh]

It could have been worse. I mean, imagine it being a SLOW useless, moneysink. :)

[Saru Inc]

I literally have no idea what you are arguing now.

 

Your first post was calling skills like fishing a novelty because you don't use them and instead buy the supplies in.

Then I say they mostly have a definite purpose within the game, therefore aren't a 'novelty' to train for the sake of it.

 

This response is some waffle about combat-oriented (that holds no relevance to my post) being wrong because there are skillers. And skills can't be 'unovelty' because they are used? And the only requirement to be useful is to be fun. And that skills cannot be better than each other so therefore cannot be novelty?

 

I mean seriously? What are you even trying to say? It's a jumble of ideas that contradict your original point, have little relation to anything I said and even conflict with each other. It just doesn't read coherently.

 

Thats without even mentioning the fact that its WALLOFTEXT.

 

Or even mentioning the fact that I TYPEDITONMYPHONE.

 

 

@Sy_Accursed,

 

In my original post I stated that no skill is a novelty skill, and I extrapolated upon that in my follow up post. I said that to imply one skill is worth more than another, is to imply that the value of each skill can be measured, and weighed against each other. I argued that each skill is equally useful, because the usefulness of a skill is not something that can be quantified. Because a skill's usefulness/value comes not from the environment, but from the person actually training the skill at that point and time. I said that while yes, some skills do have a sort of extrinsic worth, because the commodities produced from said skill can be sold, or used for personal advancement; this alone cannot define the usefulness of a skill.

 

In re-reading my post, I do see that it is a bit all over the place, this is due to my phone being not the most ideal medium for posting on forums. It is absolutely possible that we are arguing completely different things, it wouldn't be the first time two people were fighting eye to eye, only to realize they were looking in the opposite direction. Allow me to clarify.

 

My original post, stated that all skills are a novelty, and by that very factor, none of them are novelties. I used 'real world examples' of why this was. I said that for a tangible object to be a novelty, it is generally assumed that it has little to no purpose to further one's goal/objective/job/relationship/education, etc. I stated that due to the environmental factors placed upon the game by JAGEX, none of those qualifiers can be applied. Why? Because the goal/objective/job/relationship/education/etc in this instance, is to have fun in the game. Since this fundamental rule has been laid down, we cannot use the same rules for determining the novelty of an item, like we can in real life. The game is what you make it, this is my point.

 

The 'waffle of combat,' that you described, was my attempt to compromise with you that perhaps both of our points could be equally valid. On one hand, everything you do in the game, in the long run, is motivated by an external force outside of the game, typically the urge to enjoy yourself. Ergo, you cannot garner value of an item, when the scale to measure the value measures neither the intrinsic, nor extrinsic properties of it. That said, on the other hand, one could attempt to say that the main combat skills, as well as the skills that supplement it, are not novelty 'items,' because they are most in demand with the player base. This is narrows the argument down to a matter of opinion, which is to be expected.

 

If you look, you will see that the response in my post vis a vis your post was not so outlandish, I was attempting to make the same point I was making in the beginning. That while yes, one could argue the player base of Construction may be shrinking, in the end, this is a moot point. It does not matter if it is not played by anyone but you. As long as you play it, and you enjoy it, the skill is alive and fighting.

[constrictor]

I literally have no idea what you are arguing now.

 

Your first post was calling skills like fishing a novelty because you don't use them and instead buy the supplies in.

Then I say they mostly have a definite purpose within the game, therefore aren't a 'novelty' to train for the sake of it.

 

This response is some waffle about combat-oriented (that holds no relevance to my post) being wrong because there are skillers. And skills can't be 'unovelty' because they are used? And the only requirement to be useful is to be fun. And that skills cannot be better than each other so therefore cannot be novelty?

 

I mean seriously? What are you even trying to say? It's a jumble of ideas that contradict your original point, have little relation to anything I said and even conflict with each other. It just doesn't read coherently.

 

Thats without even mentioning the fact that its WALLOFTEXT.

 

Or even mentioning the fact that I TYPEDITONMYPHONE.

 

 

@Sy_Accursed,

 

In my original post I stated that no skill is a novelty skill, and I extrapolated upon that in my follow up post. I said that to imply one skill is worth more than another, is to imply that the value of each skill can be measured, and weighed against each other. I argued that each skill is equally useful, because the usefulness of a skill is not something that can be quantified. Because a skill's usefulness/value comes not from the environment, but from the person actually training the skill at that point and time. I said that while yes, some skills do have a sort of extrinsic worth, because the commodities produced from said skill can be sold, or used for personal advancement; this alone cannot define the usefulness of a skill.

 

In re-reading my post, I do see that it is a bit all over the place, this is due to my phone being not the most ideal medium for posting on forums. It is absolutely possible that we are arguing completely different things, it wouldn't be the first time two people were fighting eye to eye, only to realize they were looking in the opposite direction. Allow me to clarify.

 

My original post, stated that all skills are a novelty, and by that very factor, none of them are novelties. I used 'real world examples' of why this was. I said that for a tangible object to be a novelty, it is generally assumed that it has little to no purpose to further one's goal/objective/job/relationship/education, etc. I stated that due to the environmental factors placed upon the game by JAGEX, none of those qualifiers can be applied. Why? Because the goal/objective/job/relationship/education/etc in this instance, is to have fun in the game. Since this fundamental rule has been laid down, we cannot use the same rules for determining the novelty of an item, like we can in real life. The game is what you make it, this is my point.

 

The 'waffle of combat,' that you described, was my attempt to compromise with you that perhaps both of our points could be equally valid. On one hand, everything you do in the game, in the long run, is motivated by an external force outside of the game, typically the urge to enjoy yourself. Ergo, you cannot garner value of an item, when the scale to measure the value measures neither the intrinsic, nor extrinsic properties of it. That said, on the other hand, one could attempt to say that the main combat skills, as well as the skills that supplement it, are not novelty 'items,' because they are most in demand with the player base. This is narrows the argument down to a matter of opinion, which is to be expected.

 

If you look, you will see that the response in my post vis a vis your post was not so outlandish, I was attempting to make the same point I was making in the beginning. That while yes, one could argue the player base of Construction may be shrinking, in the end, this is a moot point. It does not matter if it is not played by anyone but you. As long as you play it, and you enjoy it, the skill is alive and fighting.

 

Very good point.

 

And the reason why everyone hates JaGEX so much, but still a good point.

Hahaha.

[Hedgehog]

All things considered, a skill being dead isn't strictly a bad thing. People will still train it no matter what, and I would rather have a dead skill than no skill.

 

The problem I have with construction is that it has so much potential. It's completely useless when it could do some really cool things.

 

It really needs an overhaul, even if it remains dead.

[Kimberly]

But shouldn't a skill designed to be a goldsink as a "check" on the economy be one of the more thriving, or useful, or interactive skills in order for it to achieve its purpose? Otherwise, what's the purpose of it being a goldsink at all?

[Sy_Accursed]

But shouldn't a skill designed to be a goldsink as a "check" on the economy be one of the more thriving, or useful, or interactive skills in order for it to achieve its purpose? Otherwise, what's the purpose of it being a goldsink at all?

 

In many ways I think, to be an effective goldsink, construction should have some inbuilt relation to gp lvls or GE trade ratios or something like that.

But for this to work it needs to have good solid repeatable content that is worth doing.

 

That way if its worth doing and tied to the economy as a whole inflation would up the cost of it whilst more people using it (and thus curbing or reversing inflation) would lower cost. I mean of course it'd also have to factor in the player so players with banks worth like 5 billion would have to pay more than players worth less. Even a simple 'housing tax' thing could work IF houses were given good solid usable benefits.

[Alg]

That way if its worth doing and tied to the economy as a whole inflation would up the cost of it whilst more people using it (and thus curbing or reversing inflation) would lower cost. I mean of course it'd also have to factor in the player so players with banks worth like 5 billion would have to pay more than players worth less. Even a simple 'housing tax' thing could work IF houses were given good solid usable benefits.

As long as it's not balanced on the assumption that everyone has billions that they can throw around at the drop of a hat...

[Cfrim]

The whole skill tree set is so messed up and archaid it's in a need of total overhaul anyway. Construction, firemaking, hunter... really? Jagex really should stop developing the game around such stupid things which clearly do not enhance gameplaying. No wonder people are leaving MMORPGs when they are still being built upon dull, strained gimmicks at the expense of (god forbid!) engaging interaction.

[Sy_Accursed]

The whole skill tree set is so messed up and archaid it's in a need of total overhaul anyway. Construction, firemaking, hunter... really? Jagex really should stop developing the game around such stupid things which clearly do not enhance gameplaying. No wonder people are leaving MMORPGs when they are still being built upon dull, strained gimmicks at the expense of (god forbid!) engaging interaction.

 

Nothing wrong with hunter!

[Cfrim]

Nothing wrong with hunter!

Yeah right... Acres of game area and npcs created solely around one (1) skill which, after you've grinded to the point of apathy, grands you an item or two for the larger gameplay. A skill having content for the sake of itself should be a minigame instead of a skill, if to be in the game to begin with.

[constrictor]

Nothing wrong with hunter!

Yeah right... Acres of game area and npcs created solely around one (1) skill which, after you've grinded to the point of apathy, grands you an item or two for the larger gameplay. A skill having content for the sake of itself should be a minigame instead of a skill, if to be in the game to begin with.

 

Hunter should have been named trapping or something, but that's abit side tracked.

 

Yes JaGEX often releases content that is not necessarily "enhancing" gameplay directly, but I would say, especially in the initial stages, most skills released by JaGEX are fangirled/boyed over for a good month atleast, and you know why?

 

Because people are curious still. They are playing for the sake of having fun (and fulfilling their curiosity!). But after about the first month, the fun dwindles and it turns into "who can get 99 first or 200m exp first blahblahblahblah" and then the skill quickly is swept into grindscape.

 

So as much as the content may be tiring to play - that is an entire mindset in its own. Play to the point of it being bearable and if you can't take it, do something fun.

 

 

Personally, the reason I started this thread was entirely because my favorite skill (of pretty much all time) is Construction I do not like Construction for the grinding hours and gps you have to put in, but in order to have a awesome, huge, beautiful house you have to do this, and so I do it, and what results is me having fun by pursuing and achieving my ultimate goals, though it may take time and effort (god forbid!). Because of this is why I was wondering why the skill was dead, because I love the skill, but as many have pointed out, the content is outdated to the game, as well as the graphics.

 

Disclaimer: I am very tired and apologize if this makes no sense.

[Cfrim]

That's exactly the problem: the content lives for a really short amount of time and then basically fades from existence in people's minds. In the longer run the time, money and effort spent on developing said content goes to waste.

[constrictor]

That's exactly the problem: the content lives for a really short amount of time and then basically fades from existence in people's minds. In the longer run the time, money and effort spent on developing said content goes to waste.

 

This was the entire issue that Saru was trying to point out.

 

It may fade from existence in your mind or generalized "people's" minds, but JaGEX still sees that maybe 200 players (a random number) still love the skill, and it is their ONLY reason for playing the game, and so JaGEX sees the skill as still mandatory for the players RuneScape "existence" to continue.

 

Saru said it better than I, so I would suggest you go back to page 4 or so and read what he said to understand fully what I am trying to convey.

[Cfrim]

This was the entire issue that Saru was trying to point out.

 

It may fade from existence in your mind or generalized "people's" minds, but JaGEX still sees that maybe 200 players (a random number) still love the skill, and it is their ONLY reason for playing the game, and so JaGEX sees the skill as still mandatory for the players RuneScape "existence" to continue.

 

Saru said it better than I, so I would suggest you go back to page 4 or so and read what he said to understand fully what I am trying to convey.

Jagex (and many other game studios for that matter) are on an doomed mission trying to cater for everybody, with finite resources and typical attention span in gaming for implemented stuff go get on all of it's glory. When developers hadn't had the chance to pull the full potential not only from the "majority content" but also the "minority stuff" gets under the shadow, all of the audience is going to suffer from it.

 

But yeah, if they see such philosophy fit for their game, then so be it.