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Behind the Scenes: March 2013


Miss Lioness

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Because a dungeon concept isn't a skill. You raid/navigate through a dungeon to reap the rewards using other skills. I can't see how this is a skill on itself. They made it that way but it doesn't make sense to me.

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You chop a tree, you get woodchop xp.

You light a log, you get firemaking xp.

You complete a dungeon, you get dungeoneering xp.

 

I dunno, it sounds right. Castlewarring, Fistsofguthixing, Pestcontrolling doesn't.

 

It's also the complexity of the skill involved, the amount of aspects that are included. I feel that yes, it should be considered a skill, albeit it's a little similar to how minigames work in terms of rewards and parties, but it is a skill regardless.

 

It brings fun to the game and I'm fine with that.

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You complete a dungeon, you get dungeoneering xp.

I think you mean you play the minigame, you get dungeoneering xp. Everything that you can do inside dungeoneering, you can do in another part of the game world without getting dungeoneering exp. It doesn't have a single defining feature other than the minigame.

 

I dunno, it sounds right. Castlewarring, Fistsofguthixing, Pestcontrolling doesn't.
It's not about the name, if they made a skill from playing castle wars and maybe expanded it a bit, it'd make just as much sense as a skill as dungeoneering does.

 

That they chose to make dungeoneering into a skill, probably for simplicity in unlocking stuff and rewards, does not mean that it's not 100% a minigame. Bigger than other minigames, yes, but still doesn't fit the characteristics of a skill.

 

It brings fun to the game and I'm fine with that.

Yeah, not a big deal, but given the precedent of dungeoneering don't expect all future skills to make sense either.

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You complete a dungeon, you get dungeoneering xp.

I think you mean you play the minigame, you get dungeoneering xp. Everything that you can do inside dungeoneering, you can do in another part of the game world without getting dungeoneering exp. It doesn't have a single defining feature other than the minigame.

 

I dunno, it sounds right. Castlewarring, Fistsofguthixing, Pestcontrolling doesn't.
It's not about the name, if they made a skill from playing castle wars and maybe expanded it a bit, it'd make just as much sense as a skill as dungeoneering does.

 

That they chose to make dungeoneering into a skill, probably for simplicity in unlocking stuff and rewards, does not mean that it's not 100% a minigame. Bigger than other minigames, yes, but still doesn't fit the characteristics of a skill.

It brings fun to the game and I'm fine with that.
Yeah, not a big deal, but given the precedent of dungeoneering don't expect all future skills to make sense either.

 

Yes; why aren't we receiving dungeoneering exp from entering KBD/QBD lair, KK, KQ, DK's, God Wars Dungeon.

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You complete a dungeon, you get dungeoneering xp.

I think you mean you play the minigame, you get dungeoneering xp. Everything that you can do inside dungeoneering, you can do in another part of the game world without getting dungeoneering exp. It doesn't have a single defining feature other than the minigame.

 

I dunno, it sounds right. Castlewarring, Fistsofguthixing, Pestcontrolling doesn't.
It's not about the name, if they made a skill from playing castle wars and maybe expanded it a bit, it'd make just as much sense as a skill as dungeoneering does.

 

That they chose to make dungeoneering into a skill, probably for simplicity in unlocking stuff and rewards, does not mean that it's not 100% a minigame. Bigger than other minigames, yes, but still doesn't fit the characteristics of a skill.

It brings fun to the game and I'm fine with that.
Yeah, not a big deal, but given the precedent of dungeoneering don't expect all future skills to make sense either.

 

Yes; why aren't we receiving dungeoneering exp from entering KBD/QBD lair, KK, KQ, DK's, God Wars Dungeon.

 

Because it is not 'Dungeon-eering', it is 'Daemonhiem-eering'. By this, I mean the skill is not to go through dungeons, but your knowledge of Daemonhiem. This coming from the Jmods who made the skill.

 

I do always find it funny how people complain about this skill vs minigame title. Are you really saying you WANT all of our skills to be as bland as click X to receive Y? Is it really so bad to have something so advanced like DG as a skill?

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DG is hardly advanced, it's just as repetitive as other skills, it just takes longer before you realize. In the end all it comes down to is level mod and the floor layout.

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DG is hardly advanced, it's just as repetitive as other skills, it just takes longer before you realize. In the end all it comes down to is level mod and the floor layout.

 

There's an unavoidable element of grinding that is there, as it is in all skills; however, Dungeoneering has far more variety, from just the basic fact that every dungeon is different (as are themes), and of course there are different playing styles as to how to complete dungeons (rushing vs non-rushing). That alone makes it extremely variable and exciting. Admittedly, though, by the time I got to level 116ish it got very boring. Still, it's far more dynamic and exciting than virtually any other skill out there, which don't seem to progress much further than "Choose spot, stay there till 99", or "Choose training method and repeat till 99". Dungeoneering sort of has those principles but it extends them and is more flexible with them.

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Are we really digging up this debate again?

 

Well they got 07scape back they need SOMETHING to whine about now don't they?

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It's not about the name, if they made a skill from playing castle wars and maybe expanded it a bit, it'd make just as much sense as a skill as dungeoneering does.

 

Yes. :rolleyes:

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"We don't want players to be able to buy their way to success in RuneScape. If we let players start doing this, it devalues RuneScape for others. We feel your status in real-life shouldn't affect your ability to be successful in RuneScape" Jagex 01/04/01 - 02/03/12

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The reason I have trouble seeing Dungeoneering as a skill is because it is a player-skill, not a character-skill.

 

With other skills (character-skills) your character becomes more proficient and learns to perform the relevant tasks better. With strength, your character becomes stronger and deals more damage. With woodcutting, your character becomes more proficient at chopping trees and can chop faster or more efficiently. With hunter, your character becomes better at laying the traps just-right. Levels in these skills represent the proficiency of your character as they learn from their experience.

 

By contrast, Dungeoneering is a player-skill. Your character learns very little as you gain levels; instead the levels represent the learning, experience, and proficiency of the player. The contextual meaning of the word "skill" is entirely different, because it is a different entity's skill being measured. It would be like if you listed typing speed as one of the numeric specifications of your computer.

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Are we really digging up this debate again?

 

Well they got 07scape back they need SOMETHING to whine about now don't they?

Are you really bringing up this debate again?

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I didn't mean to say that Dungeoneering was a bad piece of content, by any means. I enjoyed it a lot while I was playing and with good friends is probaby the most fun thing to do in this game for me. It was meant as a light-hearted joke, but I should probably justify it:

 

I just don't think it's particularly well implemented as a skill, even if the concept is sound on the most fundamental level. Despite being about delving dungeons, it's only trained within one specific dungeon which is almost entirely isolated from the rest of the game. Your skill levels matter to some extent (I say not entirely because the bulk of the content is scaled to your level), but your items don't matter at all. Levelling the skill itself provides almost no benefit aside from the ability to further train that skill more efficiently -- I think it's quite telling that I got a few noisette triangle keys from the SOF a few weeks ago and have yet to figure out any use for them at all.* The only rewards you get from the skill are items which can only be obtained with tokens which you only get from training the skill and are implemented exactly like, say, Fist of Guthix tokens. The way those rewards are costed means that, with one exception, your level in Dungeoneering is only tangentially relevant to your ability to obtain those items.

 

To me, until Dungeoneering level itself starts being more relevant to the main game, it's a (rather good) minigame. And I feel like it might have been better as a minigame, since I probably wouldn't then have to repeat the same floors a thousand times over in order to complete the content for the sake of balancing skill levelling.

 

*(If they can be taken into Daemonheim, which I haven't tried, they might be useful for unlocking floors prematurely. They could also theoretically be used to partially bypass the arcane stream necklace's level requirement, assuming you don't also need 70 dungeoneering to actually equip it, but this won't work for any other reward. Finally, you could use them to access resource dungeons, but all of those are accessed WAY below the skill's maximum level.)

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I think we can quit the skill vs. minigame discussion, it's not for this thread. Thank you.

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It was a facetious point, but legit gambling could hardly be defined as a skill. At least bookmakers in real life have to quantify the risks and the chances of something happening, which requires lots of experience and knowledge to predict. In RuneScape gambling, the odds don't change.

 

It's more of an exercise in self-promotion than risk/reward calcuations.

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I didn't state it had to be a skill, i'd like to see it incorporated at the games room as a casino. Have you read my former post? Chance calculation is possible if it gets out of Player-owned hands.

 

And as much as you can predict (which only refers to poker and blackjack, mostly) it's all the illusion of control/gamblers fallacy. We aren't all mathematic prodigies either, cardcounting is a difficult skill.

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At least bookmakers in real life have to quantify the risks and the chances of something happening, which requires lots of experience and knowledge to predict.

Not really. If you've ever been to a horse track, the odds float. Bookmakers use markets to set odds, which is to say it's the collective knowledge and feeling of an event that determines the odds. Regardless of the outcome, they're paying less than 100% of the totals bet.

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still curious, do you guys think f2p monsters will now drop charms? I doubt summoning will be trainable past the charms that the quest gives you.

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Honestly jagex will probably let players gather only gold charms. The vast majority of the community sees them as a waste of time and not worth it.

 

These aren't my views though because going from 92-99 for me was something like 250-400k xp in gold charms.



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I like the look of this month. Don't really care about the warbands, but I tend to really enjoy the easter events, and it's nice to see them still cleaning up the EoC system. It also looks like they are continuing to gear up for the graphical rework, and I can't wait to see that.

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