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High Tier Item Access


Yoko Kurama
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No; that's an entirely separate issue.

The name of the post is "High Tier Item Access" I think you're in the wrong thread mate.

I think the confusion here is that it's a spin-off topic that discussed many different ones in the first place.

 

Yes, fire cape like challenges are nice and all, but they can't just be left for dead afterwards. There are many ways of implementing challenges in the game, however, to be sustainable, they usually do need to offer monetary rewards. A challenge that is grindable doesn't diminish the challenge, in my opinion. Also, if your goal(or challenge) is to obtain the best gear, there need to be methods of obtaining wealth quickly by means of grinding.

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First to 99 Farming on 27. September, 2005.

First to 3766 Port Score on 20. March, 2014.

First to 4664 Port Score on 2. March, 2015.

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No; that's an entirely separate issue.

The name of the post is "High Tier Item Access" I think you're in the wrong thread mate.

I think the confusion here is that it's a spin-off topic that discussed many different ones in the first place.

 

Yes, fire cape like challenges are nice and all, but they can't just be left for dead afterwards. There are many ways of implementing challenges in the game, however, to be sustainable, they usually do need to offer monetary rewards. A challenge that is grindable doesn't diminish the challenge, in my opinion. Also, if your goal(or challenge) is to obtain the best gear, there need to be methods of obtaining wealth quickly by means of grinding.

However, I wouldn't coin the term "grinding" if you enjoy what you're doing, then it would just be seeking your aspiration. I've thought about the concept of another fire-cape like reward from a monster and I came up with what I think would be good ideas for possible solutions. Firstly you could make the weapon/armor so that the more you do the activity, the more powerful the weapon/armor becomes, but it has a cap according to your combat levels. That way it stay balanced for the user, and can't be OP.

My second idea is built off of what they've already hinted that they will do. Instead of having it level up and become more powerful through using it in a specific minigame or killing a monster over and over, make it more generalized as it powers up when you use it over and over again killing things. That way it would become something anyone could use too for all levels. Possibly you could even make it so that it specializes in a certain monster.

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It's worth noting that it took a very long time for the fire cape to stop being a standard for high-level players, if not a respectable achievement.

But the content itself, that is - the fight caves, was dead long before that. Once the learning curve was mastered, it was easily conquerable in under an hour, and was only brought back to life with the Slayer task update.

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Have people forgotten about the Fight Kiln? You know, the Fight Caves, except more challenging and with a repeatable monetary reward?

Oh, no no no. you forgot, that's dead content. not a good moneymaker anymore at all. It's more than a month old so it should just be forgotten... :wink:

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I think both models are broken. Untradeable top-end gear is long overdue in Runescape, two different classifications, those that can be used in PvP and then of course those that can be used in PvE, this removes Jagex's inability to make balanced gear to make harder monsters, because it's always completely outclassed anything before it making PvP unbalanced. This would also make current top tier still good because it's best tradeable, but more accessible because less demand. The untradeable armour would of course be crazy hard to get whether it's grinding or harder bosses or some only gained through PvP, or gained through high skills (similar to PoP, only higher requirements, maybe all the encouraged skills in PoP be required)

 

You can upgrade the armour through more kills, and we need a PvP model that is not so high risk but rated in some form to give incentive to play.

 

I hate to say this, but similar to WoW's arena system. Otherwise come up with a radically new idea, but I think the current armour model and the way they are gained and all tradeable is completely broken. PoP was a good step with the better ones being untradeable, but of course Jagex messed that up with making Nex armour better again.

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I'm kinda tired seeing people want instant gratification. No, your skills will not get you 2.1b in one day. Rome also wasn't built in one day. Patience is a virtue and there's plenty of time...

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But the content itself, that is - the fight caves, was dead long before that. Once the learning curve was mastered, it was easily conquerable in under an hour, and was only brought back to life with the Slayer task update.

I was talking more about the prestige behind it: in spite of everything else, the fire cape was a symbol of skilled high-level players for a long time after it was mastered because not everyone had the skills to do it. It took a long time after the release for it to be 'dead' content mostly because eventually the community stopped caring about capes as a status symbol (All capes, not just fire).

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But the content itself, that is - the fight caves, was dead long before that. Once the learning curve was mastered, it was easily conquerable in under an hour, and was only brought back to life with the Slayer task update.

I was talking more about the prestige behind it: in spite of everything else, the fire cape was a symbol of skilled high-level players for a long time after it was mastered because not everyone had the skills to do it. It took a long time after the release for it to be 'dead' content mostly because eventually the community stopped caring about capes as a status symbol (All capes, not just fire).

I honestly still haven't gotten a fire cape... I tried once waaay before eoc, and failed, twice. I never even made it to the last wave either time. I'm not ashamed to say that I failed, I'm not really good at combat. However, even then, at least to me, the fire cape was something that I've always wanted... Maybe I will go back and try for it sometime soon.

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A lot of you guys are throwing out some ridiculous numbers out there, "Oh just do X moneymaker to get 10m an hour and it's easy". - Well in order to even have access to most of these methods, you need to:

 

1) Have high combat skills, training melee/mage/range isn't bad anymore, and should net you some money.

2) Have high prayer level - Good luck, you need to have a substantial bank in order to fund the 95 prayer that is needed to access the best prayer in the game.

3) Have high herblore level - Good luck, your bank needs to be even bigger in order to fund this herb level.

4) Not so much anymore, but have 99 summoning - Titan isn't quite as good, but yak is still hella helpful. Oh yeah, you also need a ton of cash.

 

Assuming prices are the lowest they've ever been, let's say you make 50m-100m to get to 99 attack/str/def/range/mage (which is reasonable if you do slayer, because slayer drops aren't very much). You'll still need around ~400m (and remember, this is a LOW figure) to get the 95/95 prayer/herb necessary.

 

Okay, so let's say you're 99 attack, strength, defence, range, mage. Now what? Well, without high prayer and herb, you're not going to be very good at killing profitable bosses. Let's just say you find a method that is 2m an hour (which IMO is really pushing it, but let's assume).(Yes, you could buy drygores with this money, but then you'd still have no access to great teams, and you'd still not be able to camp bosses thanks to soulsplit/better pots)

 

You put in 200 hours to get the necessary 400m (again, this figure is lower than it should be, and the moneymaking higher), and NOW you have to grind out some more herb/prayer/summoning to finally get those high levels.

 

WHOO!

 

Now you have a shot at getting on teams to start making the big bucks... but uh oh, they only want you if you already have the highest tiered weaponry, which you don't, because you spent all that money on the ability to attempt to kill this goddamn beast. So what do you do? Use the best gear available to you, let's say chaotics, and keep killing the boss. Assuming a 15m/hr, you wanna get some drygores. Drygores will cost you about ~150m, so that's 10 hours. Not bad. Then you need torva, which at ~15m/hr, is only another 10-20 (let's say 20) hours.

 

230 Hours in total to get - Full Torva/Drygores.

 

Congrats! You finally have the best tiered items in the game. Why? Well... now you can kill EVERYTHING way faster... too bad you're already maxed out in every facet of the combat triangle :(

 

Assumptions Made;

You are starting with 99 Attack, 99 Strength, 99 Defence, 99 Magic, 99 Range (which will take a long time for all of these)

You have no money, therefore you never trained prayer/herb past 70.

You have access to a 2m/hr moneymaker that is consistently 2m/hr.

It only costs 400m for 95 herb/95 prayer/99 summoning (assume you've got the charms).

 

Now, if your moneymaker drops to say... 1.5m/hr, and your cost is in reality around 600m, then you effectively doubled your hours necessary.

 

So the '1000' hour figure was off, but I just wanna show how it CAN take a ridiculous amount of time to buy some of these things.

 

That's if you do monster hunting. If you're good at merching, the 100m you made getting to maxed combat should be a nice chunk of change. Honestly, there's no reason NOT to merch at this point. You could spend 200+ hours earning it the "hard way", or log in 2-3 times a day and make the same if not more money.

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45,657th to 99 Range 29/09/09 , 41,018th to 99 Mage 13/11/09

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I think someone hasn't heard of EoC yet...

 

For most of the good monster hunting moneymakers you actually need:

 

80/90 attack, 70+str(gives negligible boosts anyway), 80 mage, 80 range, 86/87 herblore, 70 prayer, 68 summoning, 84 dungeoneering

 

Those stats are doable in less than 2 weeks with mediocre playing time. I can guarantee you that you can make 3+ m an hour at QBD and 6-10m an hour at nex/kk with those stats. But ofcource, that already assumes you are great at those things, exactly why i've said that knowledge and ability is worth more than stats.

First to 99 Farming on 27. September, 2005.

First to 3766 Port Score on 20. March, 2014.

First to 4664 Port Score on 2. March, 2015.

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I think someone hasn't heard of EoC yet...

 

For most of the good monster hunting moneymakers you actually need:

 

80/90 attack, 70+str(gives negligible boosts anyway), 80 mage, 80 range, 86/87 herblore, 70 prayer, 68 summoning, 84 dungeoneering

 

Those stats are doable in less than 2 weeks with mediocre playing time. I can guarantee you that you can make 3+ m an hour at QBD and 6-10m an hour at nex/kk with those stats. But ofcource, that already assumes you are great at those things, exactly why i've said that knowledge and ability is worth more than stats.

 

Aren't stats coming a whole lot more useful in the next combat update?

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I think someone hasn't heard of EoC yet...

 

For most of the good monster hunting moneymakers you actually need:

 

80/90 attack, 70+str(gives negligible boosts anyway), 80 mage, 80 range, 86/87 herblore, 70 prayer, 68 summoning, 84 dungeoneering

 

Those stats are doable in less than 2 weeks with mediocre playing time. I can guarantee you that you can make 3+ m an hour at QBD and 6-10m an hour at nex/kk with those stats. But ofcource, that already assumes you are great at those things, exactly why i've said that knowledge and ability is worth more than stats.

 

Aren't stats coming a whole lot more useful in the next combat update?

They might, but then again, it took jagex 5 months to fix dual wielding and that was an oversight a 6 year old would have seen. So yeah...

First to 99 Farming on 27. September, 2005.

First to 3766 Port Score on 20. March, 2014.

First to 4664 Port Score on 2. March, 2015.

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I am definitely in agreement with the OP. It makes no sense that level 80 gear is not reasonable attainable at level 80.

 

Lets say I had the minimum stats xpx listed for Nex/KK (about 80 in each combat stat) and am making 6m/h (which I doubt is possible for most players). To buy full sets of Nex gear (about 900m) I would need to spend a minimum of 150 hours at these bosses. If I wanted drygores on top of that (about 400m), well that is another 66 hours. By this time all the combat experience from the bosses has progressed me onto the next tier...

 

 

 

Ideally all the work to wear the next tier gear should be done whilst working towards the levels needed to wear that tier.

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A lot of you guys are throwing out some ridiculous numbers out there, "Oh just do X moneymaker to get 10m an hour and it's easy". - Well in order to even have access to most of these methods, you need to:

 

1) Have high combat skills, training melee/mage/range isn't bad anymore, and should net you some money.

2) Have high prayer level - Good luck, you need to have a substantial bank in order to fund the 95 prayer that is needed to access the best prayer in the game.

3) Have high herblore level - Good luck, your bank needs to be even bigger in order to fund this herb level.

4) Not so much anymore, but have 99 summoning - Titan isn't quite as good, but yak is still hella helpful. Oh yeah, you also need a ton of cash.

 

Assuming prices are the lowest they've ever been, let's say you make 50m-100m to get to 99 attack/str/def/range/mage (which is reasonable if you do slayer, because slayer drops aren't very much). You'll still need around ~400m (and remember, this is a LOW figure) to get the 95/95 prayer/herb necessary.

 

Okay, so let's say you're 99 attack, strength, defence, range, mage. Now what? Well, without high prayer and herb, you're not going to be very good at killing profitable bosses. Let's just say you find a method that is 2m an hour (which IMO is really pushing it, but let's assume).(Yes, you could buy drygores with this money, but then you'd still have no access to great teams, and you'd still not be able to camp bosses thanks to soulsplit/better pots)

 

You put in 200 hours to get the necessary 400m (again, this figure is lower than it should be, and the moneymaking higher), and NOW you have to grind out some more herb/prayer/summoning to finally get those high levels.

 

WHOO!

 

Now you have a shot at getting on teams to start making the big bucks... but uh oh, they only want you if you already have the highest tiered weaponry, which you don't, because you spent all that money on the ability to attempt to kill this goddamn beast. So what do you do? Use the best gear available to you, let's say chaotics, and keep killing the boss. Assuming a 15m/hr, you wanna get some drygores. Drygores will cost you about ~150m, so that's 10 hours. Not bad. Then you need torva, which at ~15m/hr, is only another 10-20 (let's say 20) hours.

 

230 Hours in total to get - Full Torva/Drygores.

 

Congrats! You finally have the best tiered items in the game. Why? Well... now you can kill EVERYTHING way faster... too bad you're already maxed out in every facet of the combat triangle :(

 

Assumptions Made;

You are starting with 99 Attack, 99 Strength, 99 Defence, 99 Magic, 99 Range (which will take a long time for all of these)

You have no money, therefore you never trained prayer/herb past 70.

You have access to a 2m/hr moneymaker that is consistently 2m/hr.

It only costs 400m for 95 herb/95 prayer/99 summoning (assume you've got the charms).

 

Now, if your moneymaker drops to say... 1.5m/hr, and your cost is in reality around 600m, then you effectively doubled your hours necessary.

 

So the '1000' hour figure was off, but I just wanna show how it CAN take a ridiculous amount of time to buy some of these things.

 

That's if you do monster hunting. If you're good at merching, the 100m you made getting to maxed combat should be a nice chunk of change. Honestly, there's no reason NOT to merch at this point. You could spend 200+ hours earning it the "hard way", or log in 2-3 times a day and make the same if not more money.

 

95 prayer costs approx 60-70m(Dragon bones). 96 herblore from 70 costs approx 140-150m. From level 1 you can likely increase that to 150-160m(assuming you're smart enough to do some questing for some basic levels).

Note i'm thinking much slower, cheaper methods here.

Technically, you could always find herbs to clean and make money from that.

Though doing that to 96 would be insane ;3.

 

But you don't even need 96 herblore.

You only need 90 herblore. A lot of patience, super restores, and spicy stews.

Sorry but your estimates weren't low, or conservative.

They were vastly over stated.

You're looking at a cost of about 200-220m for 95 prayer and 95 herblore.

 

Furthermore, you don't /need/ this for PvM.

If you were soloing, you would need it.

But piety does fine, and overloads, honestly aren't a requirement for Nex.

Perhaps if you were doing some hardcore team runs, but who's really /wants/ to do that? Not me. I'd much rather joke around with my friends that don't care that I don't have overloads because we kill bosses just fine.

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But the content itself, that is - the fight caves, was dead long before that. Once the learning curve was mastered, it was easily conquerable in under an hour, and was only brought back to life with the Slayer task update.

I was talking more about the prestige behind it: in spite of everything else, the fire cape was a symbol of skilled high-level players for a long time after it was mastered because not everyone had the skills to do it. It took a long time after the release for it to be 'dead' content mostly because eventually the community stopped caring about capes as a status symbol (All capes, not just fire).

I honestly still haven't gotten a fire cape... I tried once waaay before eoc, and failed, twice. I never even made it to the last wave either time. I'm not ashamed to say that I failed, I'm not really good at combat. However, even then, at least to me, the fire cape was something that I've always wanted... Maybe I will go back and try for it sometime soon.

 

now even you don't need prayer potions =p

EoC made Jad easy to kill. GOOD LUCK!

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It was easier before EoC, I think.

 

EoC has no damage soaking so I don't think you can tank it any more, it's OHKO again. Using the correct protection prayer means you only suffer 1 damage point. The weapons you're using, prayer renewals and abilities makes it less of a challenge than it used to be, but the fundamentals haven't changed, I don't think.

 

Unless they changed it again.

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It was easier before EoC, I think.

 

EoC has no damage soaking so I don't think you can tank it any more, it's OHKO again. Using the correct protection prayer means you only suffer 1 damage point. The weapons you're using, prayer renewals and abilities makes it less of a challenge than it used to be, but the fundamentals haven't changed, I don't think.

 

Unless they changed it again.

Although this is off topic, when I did it in Beta I just saved adrenaline from the two 360's then unloaded on him for insta win. I don't know how accurate this is now though with damage caps.

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I think top tier armour should be untradeable, but should still take a very long time to get. After all, it's the absolute top tier - there isn't anything to aim for gearwise once you have it.

 

If they ever release level 99 armour/weapons, it had better take a couple of hundred hours to obtain. Or make it so the level 99 gear can only be smithed, and requires 99 smithing to do so.

 

The best amulets/rings/minor armour pieces (gloves/boots) should be tradeable, to give people a motive to PVM. But the base gear to be able to PVM for those items should be untradeable and acquirable by anyone who put the time in. Oh, and you can get 99 prayer with dragon bones on a gilded altar, and 99 herb with extreme attacks after you've made a few hundred ovls, if you're on a budget.

 

People should invest in their skills first instead of wasting money on minor, almost negligible, gear upgrades like Barrows->gwd.

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