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03-Apr-2013 - Dungeoneering Dual Wielding and Charming Imp


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Slightly off-topic and more towards main game: I still say Jagex should make a 2h version of the abyssal whip/vine whip. Another discussion for another thread, I'm sure.

 

Dharok's greataxe/Godsword.

^This if you mean a literal 2h whip it just does not make sense. A whip isn't a two handed device; everything about it's design and use makes it 1 handed.

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Slightly off-topic and more towards main game: I still say Jagex should make a 2h version of the abyssal whip/vine whip. Another discussion for another thread, I'm sure.

 

Dharok's greataxe/Godsword.

^This if you mean a literal 2h whip it just does not make sense. A whip isn't a two handed device; everything about it's design and use makes it 1 handed.

Perhaps he means a "fastest" speed 2h weapon? With the way balancing works, it'd actually be quite easy for them to make one. It'd be slightly redundant in the sense that we can already dual-wield 2 "fastest" weapons to nearly the same effect, but different because it would be able to use 2h abilities and not DW.

As to how such a weapon would actually function, you'd probably hold the end of it in your left and have your right hand further up, kind of like in the movies when you see someone holding a chain, swinging it on their right side. Of course, a flail-like weapon where you simply replace the end of it with a bladed edge would be more practical.

 

Just btw, this is a discussion for another thread, namely http://forum.tip.it/topic/318069-what-updates-would-you-like-to-see-in-eoc/. :)

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2h whips make perfect sense, although you probably end up at a meteor hammer (e.g. rope or chain with a weight at either end) or similar weapon. 1h whips are a bit weird, because they take quite a bit of space and swing to use (unlike, say, shortswords) so they are wholly unsuited to combat in confined spaces, like 2h weapons, and they are more about a longer attack range, like 2h weapons.

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2h whips make perfect sense, although you probably end up at a meteor hammer (e.g. rope or chain with a weight at either end) or similar weapon. 1h whips are a bit weird, because they take quite a bit of space and swing to use (unlike, say, shortswords) so they are wholly unsuited to combat in confined spaces, like 2h weapons, and they are more about a longer attack range, like 2h weapons.

 

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The same reason people on tv will pull out 2 submachine guns and kill a bunch of people with them instead of wasting 2 magazines and filling their friends with bullets. Having a fancy show of arms is more important than making sense.

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But... why? Why do we need them?

JaGEx has finite resources, obviously, so we don't really need them.

 

However - and this may be going a bit overboard - there are many, many variations of weapons that we do not have that each could have their own niche and be easily implemented with the current system.

Currently, we have slow, average, fast, and fastest (does very slow/slowest exist?) options for weapon speeds in addition to 1h and 2h options. That's 8 possibilities, but just for one style. We have slash, crush, and stab weapons for melee alone, making that 24 different possible weapons (let's not count off-hands as additional ones) at each tier. If we went by Dungeoneering's rather complete set of tiers, there's 11 tiers (1, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 99 - this not even counting "half tiers" like 75, 85). That's 264 weapons for one point of the combat triangle! Factor in that Ranged has as many possibilities and Magic has essentially 1/3 as many and you've got a huge potential weapon pool to fill.

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But... why? Why do we need them?

JaGEx has finite resources, obviously, so we don't really need them.

 

However - and this may be going a bit overboard - there are many, many variations of weapons that we do not have that each could have their own niche and be easily implemented with the current system.

Currently, we have slow, average, fast, and fastest (does very slow/slowest exist?) options for weapon speeds in addition to 1h and 2h options. That's 8 possibilities, but just for one style. We have slash, crush, and stab weapons for melee alone, making that 24 different possible weapons (let's not count off-hands as additional ones) at each tier. If we went by Dungeoneering's rather complete set of tiers, there's 11 tiers (1, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 99 - this not even counting "half tiers" like 75, 85). That's 264 weapons for one point of the combat triangle! Factor in that Ranged has as many possibilities and Magic has essentially 1/3 as many and you've got a huge potential weapon pool to fill.

 

There's one slowest weapon; Dark bow.

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Should be linked to total level, my convert to coin value was well over 520k.

Yeah mine was over 500k too.

ofc there's no point in converting to coins considering the actual payout is six times the conversion value

 

Just got mine to activate for 192 k so it's more than 6x the value. It was at least 10 x the value for me at ~30 k per activation.


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Slightly off-topic and more towards main game: I still say Jagex should make a 2h version of the abyssal whip/vine whip. Another discussion for another thread, I'm sure.

 

Dharok's greataxe/Godsword.

^This if you mean a literal 2h whip it just does not make sense. A whip isn't a two handed device; everything about it's design and use makes it 1 handed.

 

Eh, dual wielding crossbows makes no sense either.

 

Rule of cool.

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Well, they could just release an off-hand whip and make a 2h whip a lot less useful. But then again if they did that there would really be no use for chaotic longswords since Vine whip + off-hand vine whip would be equal. Right now vine whip + EE is already better dps than CLS (unless they've changed it).

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Right now vine whip + EE is already better dps than CLS (unless they've changed it).

that's because EE is scaled as tier 70 fast damage and is fastest speed, so it ends up being something like tier 89 (OH accuracy doesn't matter much).

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Which in turn, makes:

 

1. Drygore Off hands deceptively lousy (compared with EE, Off hand drygore only nets something like 0.3% increase in overall dps compared to EE)

 

2. Every other melee off hand junk (especially Chaotic melee off hands)

 

3. You wonder why isn't EE more commonly seen. I have only ever seen EE used with Whip (rarely Vine whip) and all chaotics I have seen are wielded in pairs.

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Not enough people know how the system works I guess. There's also the huge bit about how the EoC devs themselves haven't noticed this after months lol.

 

They also only became much better than chaotics/drygores only after the DW update, so this information will take some time to spread.

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Slightly off-topic and more towards main game: I still say Jagex should make a 2h version of the abyssal whip/vine whip. Another discussion for another thread, I'm sure.

 

Dharok's greataxe/Godsword.

^This if you mean a literal 2h whip it just does not make sense. A whip isn't a two handed device; everything about it's design and use makes it 1 handed.

 

Eh, dual wielding crossbows makes no sense either.

 

Rule of cool.

 

Dual crossbows aren't beyond feasible - you can easily hold a small crossbow in a single hand and fire it. The only issues would then be reloading, but then none of the reloading has even been realistic in Runescape. Functioning as a firing weapon however they work just fine.

 

On the other hand if you tried to lash a whip about holding on to it with 2 hands you'd just end up in a right mess and not really do anything effective with it.

Of course there are weapons that have a whip-like lashing attack style or flexibility that can work 2 handed, flail type constructs and other chain type weapons fit this bill, but an actual whip just does not function with two hands.

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Slightly off-topic and more towards main game: I still say Jagex should make a 2h version of the abyssal whip/vine whip. Another discussion for another thread, I'm sure.

 

Dharok's greataxe/Godsword.

^This if you mean a literal 2h whip it just does not make sense. A whip isn't a two handed device; everything about it's design and use makes it 1 handed.

 

Eh, dual wielding crossbows makes no sense either.

 

Rule of cool.

 

Dual crossbows aren't beyond feasible - you can easily hold a small crossbow in a single hand and fire it. The only issues would then be reloading, but then none of the reloading has even been realistic in Runescape. Functioning as a firing weapon however they work just fine.

 

On the other hand if you tried to lash a whip about holding on to it with 2 hands you'd just end up in a right mess and not really do anything effective with it.

Of course there are weapons that have a whip-like lashing attack style or flexibility that can work 2 handed, flail type constructs and other chain type weapons fit this bill, but an actual whip just does not function with two hands.

 

What's worse is that setting up Karil's crossbow like dual wield magic (both hands occupied providing rapid fire capability) would be realistic and achieve the same results as 2 crossbows. Instead it is made a slow 2 handed weapon and we are stuck with what is effectively a machinegun firing off single shots and reloading our dual wielded crossbows with our teeth.

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Which in turn, makes:

 

1. Drygore Off hands deceptively lousy (compared with EE, Off hand drygore only nets something like 0.3% increase in overall dps compared to EE)

 

2. Every other melee off hand junk (especially Chaotic melee off hands)

 

3. You wonder why isn't EE more commonly seen. I have only ever seen EE used with Whip (rarely Vine whip) and all chaotics I have seen are wielded in pairs.

There are only 2 things in the game worth using a drygore on.

And you aren't going to hit either one with an EE.

It's that simple.

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Which in turn, makes:

 

1. Drygore Off hands deceptively lousy (compared with EE, Off hand drygore only nets something like 0.3% increase in overall dps compared to EE)

 

2. Every other melee off hand junk (especially Chaotic melee off hands)

 

3. You wonder why isn't EE more commonly seen. I have only ever seen EE used with Whip (rarely Vine whip) and all chaotics I have seen are wielded in pairs.

There are only 2 things in the game worth using a drygore on.

And you aren't going to hit either one with an EE.

It's that simple.

Dual-wielding accuracy (with abilities) is based purely on main-hand accuracy, the off-hand doesn't come into it. So EEE is a fantastic choice

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Which in turn, makes:

 

1. Drygore Off hands deceptively lousy (compared with EE, Off hand drygore only nets something like 0.3% increase in overall dps compared to EE)

 

2. Every other melee off hand junk (especially Chaotic melee off hands)

 

3. You wonder why isn't EE more commonly seen. I have only ever seen EE used with Whip (rarely Vine whip) and all chaotics I have seen are wielded in pairs.

There are only 2 things in the game worth using a drygore on.

And you aren't going to hit either one with an EE.

It's that simple.

Most things in the game are worth using drygores on.

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There are only 2 things in the game worth using a drygore on.

And you aren't going to hit either one with an EE.

It's that simple.

 

Please explain this

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There are only 2 things in the game worth using a drygore on.

And you aren't going to hit either one with an EE.

It's that simple.

 

Please explain this

He just managed to show his ignorance and troll all of us(including me, since i'm replying) in one short post with little intelligence. Big props to him.

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There are only 2 things in the game worth using a drygore on.

And you aren't going to hit either one with an EE.

It's that simple.

 

Please explain this

It costs money to use a drygore.

Rather alot just looking at the GE.

So what exactly are you going to be hitting with these, chickens?

No.

You will be hitting nex and kalphite King.

 

Dual-wielding accuracy (with abilities) is based purely on main-hand accuracy, the off-hand doesn't come into it. So EEE is a fantastic choice

I seriously doubt that.

It's probably a weighted average.

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It costs money to use a drygore.

Rather alot just looking at the GE.

So what exactly are you going to be hitting with these, chickens?

No.

You will be hitting nex and kalphite King.

 

It costs money to use anything that degrades. Barrows costs money.

The GE price of drygores has nothing to do with its degrade costs. It could cost 2.1b on the ge and still have its current degrade cost. Drygores are currently bombing in price. Will your point still be valid when they cost 1/10th of their original prices? Probably, knowing you.

 

Really.. Chickens? If a person has drygores, they aren't going to be stupid enough to use them at chickens. They will use them where they provide a clear and undeniable advantage over the competition. This is the case in ALL areas of pvm (bar a select few such as Armadyl and DKS for obvious reasons).

 

As for accuracy readings, this has been proved. Someone more statistics minded than I can reel them out for you.

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Really.. Chickens? If a person has drygores, they aren't going to be stupid enough to use them at chickens. They will use them where they provide a clear and undeniable advantage over the competition. This is the case in ALL areas of pvm (bar a select few such as Armadyl and DKS for obvious reasons).

My bad, I should have said goblins. You know since all areas of pvm count.

Obviously, drygores cost the most, have the biggest stats, and you gotta show your manhood and use them everywhere.

Forgot the cheap stuff like choatic weapons, royal crossbows, and godswords.

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