09-Apr-2013 - Castle Wars: Revamped

[Ginger_Warrior]

This is endgame stuff, and meant to be hard to achieve.

Explain to me, in simple terms, how playing 5,000 castle wars games is any more "harder" than playing, say, 10. Sometimes, there seems to be this pervasive attitude which is almost entirely unique to RuneScape that somehow, the more time you spend on something, the harder it becomes.

 

I could understand if each successive game became harder to win, but it doesn't.

 

There is nothing difficult whatsoever about passing time.

[SwreeTak]

Or we could just put Castle Wars tickets on SOF.

 

Oh god no...Tbh I wouldn't be surprised.

"Along with the recent castle wars improvement, we have decided to make you able to have even more wars' fun! From today you can win special castle wars-themed items on the Squeal of Fortune, including a not-at-all overpowered weapon with a silly name and hundreds of castle wars tickets (if you got the real life cash of course)! Happy spinning!"

[Fallstar]

If it's too much, accept the trimmed comp cape is too much for you. Do you feel compelled to get 200M xp in every skill just because that's the upper limit on skilling? If not, why do you feel compelled to obtain the item that represents the upper limit on completion?

[Ginger_Warrior]

If it's too much, accept the trimmed comp cape is too much for you. Do you feel compelled to get 200M xp in every skill just because that's the upper limit on skilling? If not, why do you feel compelled to obtain the item that represents the upper limit on completion?

Your argument assumes half of us are even going for trimmed comp. I have two 99s... trimmed cape isn't even on my radar, let alone an achievable goal.

 

I don't care for it, but I can still point out its flaws.

[Emaxganis]

The trim is just like normal skillcapes, to gain a trim you need to get a second 99, with the trimmed completionist, you need to do more completion. I don't see the problem with a cwars req, and I'm suprised that people thought it would be nerfed to an 'easy' level. This is endgame stuff, and meant to be hard to achieve.

Hard != Insane

 

Its a game, not a part-time job.

[lcchs]

We now have to bank tickets between games.

[Yoko Kurama]

If it's too much, accept the trimmed comp cape is too much for you. Do you feel compelled to get 200M xp in every skill just because that's the upper limit on skilling? If not, why do you feel compelled to obtain the item that represents the upper limit on completion?

Your argument assumes half of us are even going for trimmed comp. I have two 99s... trimmed cape isn't even on my radar, let alone an achievable goal.

 

I don't care for it, but I can still point out its flaws.

 

This. Fallstar's argument is basically an ad hominem attack that needlessly personalizes the issue. If you don't like it, then why don't you abstain from it? It's senseless. Mainly because most of us are not aiming for the cape, and are in fact pointing the flaws within this requirement (not our personal gripes against it), and the devastating effects it has on the game and our fellow players.

[Den]

And here I thought people would generally be happy about them over halving the requirement time...

 

Can never be pleased I guess.

 

Yes, how benevolent of Jagex to only ask for 900 hours for one requirement for a trim on one item in the whole damn game? Are they not merciful? And those ridiculously unreasonable critics, how dare they suggest that Jagex not ask players to piss away hundreds of hours of on bullshit! They are just whiners, I tell you -- they will never be pleased with anything!

Nobody said you had to do it. It's there for those who want to overachieve. The cape's examine speaks for itself.

I spent a little over a year doing castle wars for the 5000 games requirement. If you're going for the requirement, you'll find a way to do it as fast as possible. The 2000 odd games you need now is way easier.

[Fallstar]

What exactly are the flaws then? As you say, this is not a personal issue, so your personal opinion that it takes too long is therefore a non issue. Objectively, what is wrong with the CW requirement requiring so much time? As I said earlier, I have problems with it - just not with how long it takes.

[Golvellius]

And 120 dungeoneering is 100mil xp which is total BS as well, so stop your [bleep]ing and deal with it.

At least I didn't get the shaft this time. (I got 6k gold tickets :D)

Except that 120 dungeoneering/104m xp takes less than half the time (less than a quarter if you win 50%, less than a tenth with challenges, but that's a stretch), you get rewards, you get combat and skill xp, and your winning or losing doesn't have to depend on others?

100mil xp gets you far more rewards than you will ever need in a million years.

The second part about not depending on a team is laughable.

You can solo for half xp, which used to be like a 1/4 up until last winter.

Go on w77 right now and deal with them tards.

They boot you if you have xp share on because they think they get less xp. Just lol.

Going to love some of the ole cade king sabo in cw now for my favorite lvl 120 elite piles of dung. :P

[Fallstar]

And 120 dungeoneering is 100mil xp which is total BS as well, so stop your [bleep]ing and deal with it.

At least I didn't get the shaft this time. (I got 6k gold tickets :D)

Except that 120 dungeoneering/104m xp takes less than half the time (less than a quarter if you win 50%, less than a tenth with challenges, but that's a stretch), you get rewards, you get combat and skill xp, and your winning or losing doesn't have to depend on others?

100mil xp gets you far more rewards than you will ever need in a million years.

The second part about not depending on a team is laughable.

You can solo for half xp, which used to be like a 1/4 up until last winter.

Go on w77 right now and deal with them tards.

They boot you if you have xp share on because they think they get less xp. Just lol.

Going to love some of the ole cade king sabo in cw now for my favorite lvl 120 elite piles of dung. :P

 

LMFAO.

 

"Them tards" boot you for having shared xp on because it makes it harder to determine the critical path, it has nothing to do with xp :)

 

And the majority of my larges in W77 were 8-15 minutes, which is a great xp/hr rate as far as I'm concerned.

[Ginger_Warrior]

What exactly are the flaws then? As you say, this is not a personal issue, so your personal opinion that it takes too long is therefore a non issue. Objectively, what is wrong with the CW requirement requiring so much time? As I said earlier, I have problems with it - just not with how long it takes.

I've already explained its flaws on several threads over many years, and repeated the claim again on this very page last page (new page started since writing this).

 

My point is that you can have someone who's played 2,000 games of Castle Wars and someone who's played 20 games of Castle Wars. It's entirely plausible for the person who's played twenty games to better at playing Castle Wars than the person who's played 2,000 games of Castle Wars, yet they both receive the same reward after each game. Therefore, we realise that the Castle Wars capes have nothing to do with the player's skill and more to do with the sheer amount of time they've played it; your first game of Castle Wars has the potential to be just as difficult as your 2,000th. The analogy is similar to how ranks of modern day FPSs very seldom indicate anything about the player's skill level, just how much they've played, since pretty much all participants in online MM games receive exactly the same amount of XP per game.

 

The only other statement the cape can say is "This person has played Castle Wars"... well, they've played Castle Wars once, why play it another few thousand times to emphasise that point?

 

What the Castle Wars cape requirement is, is a very cynical attempt at artificially drawing out the game's endgame by making the player repeat the same arduous task over and over and over again for many hundreds of hours. All of this on a minigame which was never designed to provide any substantial reward to the player, it was only ever meant for diversion, but unfortunately like the rest of RuneScape, it appears to have been sucked in to this great treadmill race towards fancy capes and emotes.

[Aiel]

and ultimately it's the completionist cape, not the castle wars cape, why not take the ridiculous requirement and spread it out over other minigames/D&Ds which currently aren't required? That'd be much more logical, more fun to complete, and more inclusive of all aspects of the game then playing castle wars for a year straight.

[Fallstar]

What exactly are the flaws then? As you say, this is not a personal issue, so your personal opinion that it takes too long is therefore a non issue. Objectively, what is wrong with the CW requirement requiring so much time? As I said earlier, I have problems with it - just not with how long it takes.

I've already explained its flaws on several threads over many years, and repeated the claim in on this very page.

 

My point is that you can have someone who's played 2,000 games of Castle Wars and someone who's played 20 games of Castle Wars. It's entirely plausible for the person who's played twenty games to better at playing Castle Wars than the person who's played 2,000 games of Castle Wars, yet they receive the same reward after each game. Therefore, we realise that the Castle Wars capes have nothing to do with the player's skill and more to do with the sheer amount of time they've played it; your first game of Castle Wars has the potential to be just as difficult as your 2,000th.

 

The only other statement the cape can say is "This person has played Castle Wars"... well, they've played Castle Wars once, why play it another few thousand times to emphasise that point?

 

What the Castle Wars cape requirement is, is a very cynical attempt at artificially drawing out the game's endgame by making the player repeat the same arduous task over and over and over again for many hundreds of hours.

 

 

Firstly, CW isn't endgame content - the only content in RS that ever approached end game standards was Nex, but EoC turned that into low level content too.

 

Secondly, RS has always been about time invested. Why do you expect CWars to be any different?

 

and ultimately it's the completionist cape, not the castle wars cape, why not take the ridiculous requirement and spread it out over other minigames/D&Ds which currently aren't required? That'd be much more logical, more fun to complete, and more inclusive of all aspects of the game then playing castle wars for a year straight.

 

I agree that other minigames should be added to trim. But not to reduce the CWars requirement - that should be left alone. Those other minigames should be added to make the trimmed completionist cape be an item that only real completionist's can obtain.

[Tansuo]

There's still no completionist aspect to grinding out these castle wars games. Say what you like "oh now you HAVE to win", but it is still going to be a huge grind.

They should have just made it to obtain a set of hybrid. Yes it is still grind, but it is far of a more completionist requirement than a set of armour from ONE minigame, rather than getting hybrid which incorporates FIVE minigames.

[Alg]

What exactly are the flaws then? As you say, this is not a personal issue, so your personal opinion that it takes too long is therefore a non issue. Objectively, what is wrong with the CW requirement requiring so much time? As I said earlier, I have problems with it - just not with how long it takes.

I guess one problem is that all of the requirements except that one are things that completionist players can reasonably get over the course of normal gameplay. Most of the requirements are basically for finishing miniquests and exploring, some of the other minigame ones unlock new items, and the Runespan one pretty much assumes you've trained there since the start. The Castlewars one stands out in that you're probably not going to be able to unlock it without going out of your way to do so, to get a reward that pretty much solely exists to say you did it (As opposed to MA's rings).

 

Especially noteworthy when compared to a lot of the other trim requirements, which basically revolve around finishing all of the optional subplots and exploration. You know, things that video game completionists have been known to do :razz:

[muggiwhplar]

Secondly, RS has always been about time invested. Why do you expect CWars to be any different?

 

Just because it's always been that way doesn't mean it's a good thing :P

[Ginger_Warrior]

Even 2,000 games, which we'll assume takes thirty minutes per game (20 min games, 5 minutes in between, 5 minutes 'wastage' or other activities).

 

Would take 1,000 hours. With some rounding down, that's the equivalent of twenty-five full-time working weeks. That's just for one trimmed cape requirement, and then you want to nudge the other requirements up to match it?

 

I'd suggest certain few people on this thread are approaching the point of ridiculous.

[MTheory]

Still too many games for me, I'll just keep my untrimmed =]

[Quest_Cape_K]

Tickets thing is broken, managed to get 2 gold tickets + 1 silver at 2v1, even with the person on the other team quitting so it was 2v0.

Managed to pull 21 captures in a game.

[Tansuo]

Tickets thing is broken, managed to get 2 gold tickets + 1 silver at 2v1, even with the person on the other team quitting so it was 2v0.

Managed to pull 21 captures in a game.

 

[Sylpheed]

They should have added a mechanic that increased gold ticket payouts depending on how many flags are captured in a game.

[Tansuo]

They should have added a mechanic that increased gold ticket payouts depending on how many flags are captured in a game.

 

That would be left open to so much abuse. As I demonstrated, you can get 11 captures/game, for two people just running back and forth, to a total of 22 combined. We missed 1 due to stopping to pk the one guy on the opposite team, who promptly left.

[Randox]

The requirement does make sense.I feel the completionist cape should be just that, totally complete, and so require someone to earn all rewards from all mini games. It's not a cape meant for ordinary people, so it makes sense that it would be well out of reach for most of the population. The whole idea of the trimmed comp cape is supposed to be that you have nothing left to earn in the game. It's not supposed to be reasonable, as games like this aren't really intended to ever be completed. Their scale is supposed to be larger than most people could ever wholly consume, and for most people that holds true. The trimmed comp cape is really supposed to be unobtainable to all but the most fanatical players.

 

 

As for castle wars, I don't see this making it worse, though I'm not sure it will be better. I think encouraging consumables was a good move at least, since they were sort of wasted. Also, wouldn't the easiest form of anti stacking be to not allow large groups of players in the same chat to enter the same team, at least on the official worlds? Assuming the game can track which chats you were in for say the last 5-10 minutes, it would at least make stacking substantially more annoying, and less accessible to the average player (and with a lower volume, less effective).

[strilmus]

In other words, since in order for somebody to win, somebody has to lose, the requirement time has not been reduced, you're PASSING IT OFF TO OTHER PEOPLE. Sure, you can win 2000 times, but somebody else has to LOSE 2000 times. They don't accomplish anything at all.

 

I suppose this is in the spirit of the game as a good portion of the game has been designed to do that.

 

This is just another illusion to make you think they've done something when they've managed to keep their cake, and tell you to take cake from other people if you want some.