Tip.It Times Tip.It Times - 21st April 2013

[tripsis]

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[tripsis]

Regarding Test The Game, Not Our Patience :

 

I actually wasn't at all surprised by the NDA. Non-disclosure agreements are really common in MMOs, at least in the ones I've played. I've come to expect them from all beta testing. I've been in several beta programs myself and we've always been subjected to an NDA. It seems to be a fairly standard thing in the gaming industry (and probably others as well).

[Yoko Kurama]

From the 'Big Boys' article:

 

 

No company is perfect, Jagex certainly isn’t, but they are doing a damn good job and I look forward to the future of RuneScape.

 

No. Just no. I don't see what there is exactly to celebrate aside from Runescape having survived for so long. Runescape is most certainly not in one of its better phases at the moment. Despite being the largest free game online, F2P is dying. The number of active players is dismal. Roughly 40-50% of the active players are stuck playing an older version of the game. The company's primary obsession seems to be to make as much money from micro transactions as possible. Most of the places that used to be filled with community life are all but dead and barren, with everyone having moved onto the sole pursuit of XP at zombie-rates. XP rates and indeed high level content is a mess. I could go on and on. This isn't really a golden age for RS or even an optimistic one.

[Sylpheed]

I never said it was a golden age of RuneScape, but it most certainly is an optimistic one in my opinion. Aside from F2P, which I'll address in a minute, what else is there to be truly annoyed about?

 

Micro-transactions, whether you love or loathe them, WERE a necessary release. All, and I mean all MMO's experience population decline as part of their life cycles. Nothing lasts forever and neither will RuneScape, Jagex have arguably taken this into account and have increasingly focused on keeping the players it has.

 

TV adverts and other marketing tools are still being used now to try and bring in a new generation of players, but many of these people are likely to have already played RS in the past when it was a very different game and have outdated preconceptions of what the game is like.

 

The XP chasing crowd has always existed. By the very nature of what an MMO is, XP is fundamental to how the game works. Your definition isn't a catch all term for every player either. Personally I only play the game for enjoyment. That may be efficient training or it may be a myriad of other things like playing minigames or simply doing some PvM or chatting to friends.

 

F2P is dying out because of several mistakes Jagex made in regards to free trials and the masses of bots that overran a non-payment required version of the game. Yes, F2P does need some TLC to make it appealing again but given the age of RuneScape, I still maintain that it's in a pretty respectable position.

[Arceus]

Micro-transactions, whether you love or loathe them, WERE a necessary release. All, and I mean all MMO's experience population decline as part of their life cycles. Nothing lasts forever and neither will RuneScape, Jagex have arguably taken this into account and have increasingly focused on keeping the players it has.

 

Echoing this, note that Jagex had a loss of 9.5 million pounds (although that included an investment of 15m into new products) in 2011 (see p. 9 here).

[Alg]

Relevant.

[purpieman2]

1000 articles. I remember when there were only 10-20. A lot of necessary things to address, so i understand why there are many articles coming out and so few guides, as well as RS changing again.

[thejollyroger]

Relevant.

 

YES. So much so, on many, many levels. It's getting to be trite now, but we've long discussed the problems of pandering to a whiny vocal minority. This is also a bit cliché, but I'll say it again:

1. Think Like A Developer
   
2. Don't Just Complain, Offer Solutions
   

Maybe I'm expecting a lot with #1, but at least here, I know there are players that have some understanding of the game code, and could offer ideas within the context of what's already there. Too often I see big ideas, but without some understanding of how it would impact the game. #2 should be a given: it was a rule of the Rants board here for quite some time.

 

There were many reasons why I praised the Clan Chronicle, and one of the biggest is that I think the community still has a lot of power to seize opportunity and be accountable for what they want. A friend of mine said once that a lot of game content seemed to go much better when communities decided how they would interact with it, instead of waiting for Jagex to tell them how. This is the strength of fansite communities and clans-- to actively decide what their enjoyment should be. I'm a bit sad the Order of Cabbage has collapsed; they had a very strong reputation for making a lot of fun with the extent of F2P content that existed when they started. Yes, I know a lot of players moved on to membership later, but I think it was significant.

 

I say this with both articles in mind. I think it's high time the community started asking this: "Because Jagex is playing with the big boys now, what can we do to be better regarded in the MMO world? Can we do better than our current reputation of whiny, immature brats that are always the butt of jokes? Can we show them that we are more?" It's time to step up. I'm doing what I can-- although you know I've got my grumpy "time to beat the kids with my walking stick" days. Stand with me.

[whyareall]

In response to Test The Game, Not Our Patience, the NDA was lifted about a day after the beta was opened

[Arceus]

In response to Test The Game, Not Our Patience, the NDA was lifted about a day after the beta was opened

I'm aware of this, and in fact noted it in the article :). Still, the fact that they (tried to) do it should raise some eyebrows.

[darthaddict]

In response to Test The Game, Not Our Patience, the NDA was lifted about a day after the beta was opened

I'm aware of this, and in fact noted it in the article . Still, the fact that they (tried to) do it should raise some eyebrows.

I think your whole article was making a big over something that was nothing. It it shouldn't raise eyebrowes since it is not a big deal. Yeah it may have been a little bit over the top, but it is a common pratice. Anyways Jagex realized it was dumb and removed it.

 

Gratz to Tip.it for 1000 articles.

 

The second article was good, and its nice to see something positive in the Times. I do agree there is some hope for runescape. (Of course haters are always going to hate.)

[Ulysses]

Two well written articles.

 

In regards to the first article, i agree that the game has a lot of potential, and it is imperative for Jagex to thoroughly run through the game before releasing. Given the situation with the beta for EoC, its release and the many subsequent fixes, I think this is their second chance to redeem themselves of the mistakes they have made and learn from them. The NDA isn't an issue to me, and the fps/lag is understandable at this stage of the game, one can only hope they will be rectified before the conclusion of the beta period.

 

In regards to the second article, I agree that there is hope for the game in the future. With the recent change in combat and future changes in game engine and interface, Jagex has opened up many opportunities for the game to grow. Change is good imo, and it is necessary in most cases. I think the author has made a valid point that RS has been around long enough such that it has made a name for itself within the MMORPG community. As someone mentioned elsewhere on this forum a few days ago, Jagex need a good media campaign to honestly update people (ex-players mostly) on what the current game looks like. Afaik, the image of RS among those of my gamer friends is that of RSC.

[Fallstar]

The NDA lasted for less than 2 hours before Jagex realized how futile attempting to enforce such a thing is when so many people have beta access.

 

As for the 2nd article, RS3 could go well and sustain RS for the forseeable future. However I have to disagree about RWT being necessary for Runescape's survival. Yes Jagex posted a £9.5M loss in 2011, but bear in mind that they also very significantly expanded their infrastructure in that year, moving into new offices and hiring over a hundred new staff. That loss included many one time expenses.

 

It is quite clear when Runescape started declining. Before the removal of Free Trade and the Wilderness, Runescape was a growing game - the number of members and the concurrent player count was increasing. The introduction of restricted trade and the removal of the wilderness wiped out a large number of players instantly, and more importantly, reversed the trend of growth into one of decay. Nothing Jagex has done since then has been able to turn the trend around again and give us a growing game population.

 

No matter how much RWT Jagex introduces into the game, without enough players to spend their money even an MTX model can't be successful.

 

People tend to go "SoF is killing RS" or "Dicers are killing RS" or "EoC killed RS" but the truth is that restricted trade killed Runescape. A growing player population is probably the biggest sign of long term prosperity for an MMO, and the loss of that was not worth any amount of anti rule breaking that restricted trade brought in.

[Arceus]

People tend to go "SoF is killing RS" or "Dicers are killing RS" or "EoC killed RS" but the truth is that restricted trade killed Runescape. A growing player population is probably the biggest sign of long term prosperity for an MMO, and the loss of that was not worth any amount of anti rule breaking that restricted trade brought in.

 

That claim is rather interesting. I was actually under the impression that restricted trade saved RuneScape. In one of their videos last year, I quite clearly recall them stating that the game was in "terminal decline" in 06-07. To the best of my knowledge the issue was bots paying for membership via credit card fraud, and then Jagex having to return the money, giving Jagex quite a hit and ultimately leaving them with no choice but to place restricted free trade on the game. But if you have anything that indicates that was not the case, I would be interested to read it.

[Bxpprod]

The RS3 article puzzled me more than anything. A beta with an NDA is all a profit grab?

 

Please.

 

NDAs are invoked on a number of things, most notably to protect the company's goods. Employees at many large companies (including Jagex, from my understanding) are required to sign NDAs upon employment, because even small details can help competition. The notion that it is all down to a money-grab seems a little absurd, but from the context of reading it as a Runescape article written by a Runescape player, maybe not so much. Sure, if there was an overview of a larger perspective on profit, I'd take that. Business is driven by profit, and protection of updates to ensure competitors remain behind helps to ensure some cashflow, but to boil it down to a membership drive?

 

Please.

Of course it is impossible to 100% control the flow of information. But the idea is to reduce it as much as possible by scaring off players who otherwise MAY have shared.

 

Oh. And I'm fairly sure the idea of Beta testing is that it is meant to be a way for people to "break" the system because 100s if not 1000s of players racking up big game time can help to find holes and break things a lot easier than a room full of testers.

 

People tend to go "SoF is killing RS" or "Dicers are killing RS" or "EoC killed RS" but the truth is that restricted trade killed Runescape. A growing player population is probably the biggest sign of long term prosperity for an MMO, and the loss of that was not worth any amount of anti rule breaking that restricted trade brought in.

 

RS being developed is what's killing RS. Miniclip was the first thing I can recall that was going to KILL RS, and that was what, 2001? There were people even before that occasionally referring to updates as the beginning of the end.

[thejollyroger]

People tend to go "SoF is killing RS" or "Dicers are killing RS" or "EoC killed RS" but the truth is that restricted trade killed Runescape. A growing player population is probably the biggest sign of long term prosperity for an MMO, and the loss of that was not worth any amount of anti rule breaking that restricted trade brought in.

 

That claim is rather interesting. I was actually under the impression that restricted trade saved RuneScape. In one of their videos last year, I quite clearly recall them stating that the game was in "terminal decline" in 06-07. To the best of my knowledge the issue was bots paying for membership via credit card fraud, and then Jagex having to return the money, giving Jagex quite a hit and ultimately leaving them with no choice but to place restricted free trade on the game. But if you have anything that indicates that was not the case, I would be interested to read it.

 

No question that restricted trade had an impact. I'm going to agree with Arceus, however, because that's precisely what I remember jmods saying officially. Although the changes to the Wilderness received the most attention, it was my understanding that the Duel Arena had been abused. Staking was used to launder farmed money. Restricted trade wasn't the cause, then, but the effect. It was the solution Jagex chose for a serious problem.

 

I'm going to bet that some of the updates to the Duel Arena are still rooted in past abuse. When a friend of mine was hacked, I was feeling plucky and talked to the invading player... the mere mention of "I ran out of money staking" was a dead, dead giveaway.

 

RS being developed is what's killing RS. Miniclip was the first thing I can recall that was going to KILL RS, and that was what, 2001? There were people even before that occasionally referring to updates as the beginning of the end.

 

More like 2004. Their previous arrangement was with Real Networks and the RealArcade division. A trivial distinction, I'm sure, because RealArcade occupied a very similar niche that Miniclip did; the RealArcade downloadable client had 2 links to world servers. I thought Real did very well by Jagex with some quality ads that spoke of membership benefits and account security. Anyways, what grabbed my attention MUCH, much more was their deal with WildTangent later. I was flabbergasted, really, because WildTangent was infamous in the very late '90s and early part of the Aughties with spyware. I didn't quit RS, but I was very concerned Jagex was publicly dealing with a company with such a notorious reputation... a rep that had yet to be cleaned up IMO.

[Dracae]

Its nice to see a positive article and to quite an extend I agree.

When criticizing Runescape and Jagex we need to not romanticize the past and forget where it all begone.

My feeling is that Jagex is out of the dumps it saw itself in only a year ago and on the way up.

They had to scramble and make some painful changes.. some of which I still loath, but having survived that they seem to be truly building again.

[Dracae]

Relevant.

 

Interesting and a little creappy, I was looking at this exact site and among others at this trope for one of my next articles...

Lets hope I can keep it somewhat original..

[Fallstar]

People tend to go "SoF is killing RS" or "Dicers are killing RS" or "EoC killed RS" but the truth is that restricted trade killed Runescape. A growing player population is probably the biggest sign of long term prosperity for an MMO, and the loss of that was not worth any amount of anti rule breaking that restricted trade brought in.

 

That claim is rather interesting. I was actually under the impression that restricted trade saved RuneScape. In one of their videos last year, I quite clearly recall them stating that the game was in "terminal decline" in 06-07. To the best of my knowledge the issue was bots paying for membership via credit card fraud, and then Jagex having to return the money, giving Jagex quite a hit and ultimately leaving them with no choice but to place restricted free trade on the game. But if you have anything that indicates that was not the case, I would be interested to read it.

 

Nope, that is incorrect.

 

This is one of the summary bullet points for the MTX Livestream:

 

RuneScape was in terminal decline from 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010 and started to grow again in 2011. This year RuneScape has been growing consistently.

 

From 2007 onwards. Restricted trade was introduced in 2007. The loss of the wilderness and Free Trade was the update that turned growth into decline - Runescape was still growing in 2006 to mid 2007.