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You mean.. you can't have two fire capes?

 

How stupid is that? That is very stupid.

Runescape player since 2005
Ego Sum Deus Quo Malum Caligo et Barathum


 

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You mean.. you can't have two fire capes?

 

How stupid is that? That is very stupid.

Why would you need two? You only have one back :P

Being able to have a spare if you lose yours instead of having to re-do it.

Like you do Fight Caves twice in a row, then you have two so you don't have to go back in a while.

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You mean.. you can't have two fire capes?

 

How stupid is that? That is very stupid.

Why would you need two? You only have one back :P

Being able to have a spare if you lose yours instead of having to re-do it.

Like you do Fight Caves twice in a row, then you have two so you don't have to go back in a while.

 

I really don't understand the people in this damn game.

 

Do you have two keyboards plugged in just in case you spill a milkshake all over the first one?

 

It's supposed to be a reward from a challenging activity. The reward is good because it is challenging. If the activity is less challenging, and the reward stays the same, then you are getting the best cape in the game from an activity that is continually decreasing in challenge.

 

The fire cape is a legendary item rewarded from killing the highest level monster in RS. Why would there be two of them?

 

Honestly most of you guys should just go play a board game with dice that have nothing but sixes all over them. Then you can just continually win, even though winning means nothing since the game is no challenge.

 

If I had it my way, you would only get one fire cape. Ever. If you are dumb enough to die with it, then you just don't get to have an amazing cape anymore.

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You mean.. you can't have two fire capes?

 

How stupid is that? That is very stupid.

Why would you need two? You only have one back :P

Being able to have a spare if you lose yours instead of having to re-do it.

Like you do Fight Caves twice in a row, then you have two so you don't have to go back in a while.

 

I really don't understand the people in this damn game.

 

Do you have two keyboards plugged in just in case you spill a milkshake all over the first one?

 

It's supposed to be a reward from a challenging activity. The reward is good because it is challenging. If the activity is less challenging, and the reward stays the same, then you are getting the best cape in the game from an activity that is continually decreasing in challenge.

 

The fire cape is a legendary item rewarded from killing the highest level monster in RS. Why would there be two of them?

 

Honestly most of you guys should just go play a board game with dice that have nothing but sixes all over them. Then you can just continually win, even though winning means nothing since the game is no challenge.

 

If I had it my way, you would only get one fire cape. Ever. If you are dumb enough to die with it, then you just don't get to have an amazing cape anymore.

 

Ideally, yes, you would have a spare keyboard readily-available.

 

"It's supposed to be a reward for a challenging activity."

... so? You do said challenging activity twice, you get the reward twice. Where's the problem?

 

Also, I never once mentioned it making Fight Caves easier.

 

 

The rest of your post is completely unrelated.

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Ideally, yes, you would have a spare keyboard readily-available.

 

"It's supposed to be a reward for a challenging activity."

... so? You do said challenging activity twice, you get the reward twice. Where's the problem?

 

Also, I never once mentioned it making Fight Caves easier.

 

 

The rest of your post is completely unrelated.

 

Why do you want 2 capes?

Ease of access

 

Why is there a good reward from Fight Caves?

Because it isn't easy

 

So we are just adding a feature to make something easier when the point of that activity in the first place is to challenge players. Your fire cape should be a special item because it is a reward for doing something that is a pain. It becomes significantly less special if you can have 10 of them sitting in your bank from when you got bored and decided to train your range up doing fight caves. It should be something that you don't want to lose, at all times, unless you are prepared to have to earn it back.

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Do you have two keyboards plugged in just in case you spill a milkshake all over the first one?

 

No, but I have a spare keyboard and a spare mouse just incase either of them kick the bucket and I can't go to the shop the same day.

 

Do you have two sets of house keys? You know, so if you drop yours down the sewer while walking down the street you can call someone so you can get into your house, instead of having to break a window or a door down?

It is called being prepared.

Runescape player since 2005
Ego Sum Deus Quo Malum Caligo et Barathum


 

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"PJ timer" Actually i wouldn't be surprised if this was voted for by the majority of players. Few people think rushing is good for the game, they just take advantage of the situation or revenge for when they were rushed themselves.

 

On top of that, if Jagex just said "We added a PJ timer" without a poll; the majority of players would be thankful and very few people could actually criticize such as a decision, sure it effects their money making method, but it's obviously the "moral" thing to do.

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It boils down purely to preference I think. I'm not a fan of the cluttered level up dialogue box (half of it is CLICK THE FLASHING ICON TO SEE WHAT YOU CAN DO NOW); the current version looks and feels cleaner.

 

Ectophial refill is not a big deal either way to me; it's not terrible to get back if you forget it (and once you do, you'll never forget it again :P).

 

Multiple fire capes - I simply preferred the idea of the fire cape being something that would require much investment to obtain, and that losing it should feel like a major setback as you drag your ass to the Fight caves again. If it turned to coins when you died or something, sure, it'd be nice to be able to own multiple fire capes (since you can't run back to reclaim it), but it feels like having a stack of fire capes in your bank trivialises it. Also not a fan of the placeholder mentality.

 

Again, these are just preference points.

 

I agree so much with this post, and point to it when Vinyl/Powerfrog asked me why I dislike those three updates.

 

It is personally preference that I always hated the flashing skill icon thing. If you truly want to know better what you can do at a new level, I'd be happy with the game to spit out into the chat-box a list of what you can do now after levelling up. I also thing that's more possible with the development team crippled as they are.

 

As far as ectophial, I think that it's a free limitless teleport, there should be some charge, and that happens to be remembering to click to refill it. And like Saradomin Mage says, once you forget it once, you don't forget it again. I can understand these being annoyances, especially if you've played the modern version of the game, and you are used to it autorefilling. But it really isn't that big of a problem, and I dislike the hand-holding approach the game took.

 

And yes, losing firecape is a bad thing. You should feel bad. You should have to go and toil through the caves oncemore to get a new one, or use a legends cape until you are ready to. That's just something I "grew up with", and I like it very much. It's a step away from the instant gratification way of making the game. Yes you may have toiled to get your spare firecape a few weeks ago, but when you needed a new one, it's there instantly for you, and I think that mentality is detrimental to the game. Using a fire-cape should mean you are risking 1-2 hours of your time, right now. Not 1-2 hours of time you've already spent, and forgotten about. These risk-removal updates are imo a step towards gravestones.

 

I am not saying 07RS should be a snapshot of 07 July, set in stone to never change. I'm just very wary of the updates that would lead it down the same path again.

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There's no harm in allowing people to collect multiple capes. If the fire cape gave you bonus damage against TzHaar monsters, making additional capes easier, then you might have a point. But that's not the case; additional capes are simply a convenience so if you lose your cape, you don't have to reobtain it before going back to whatever it was that you were doing.

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But allowing people to have multiple capes doesn't make the Fight Caves easier?

 

So if nothing is made easier then why do you want the update?

 

Do you have two keyboards plugged in just in case you spill a milkshake all over the first one?

 

No, but I have a spare keyboard and a spare mouse just incase either of them kick the bucket and I can't go to the shop the same day.

 

Do you have two sets of house keys? You know, so if you drop yours down the sewer while walking down the street you can call someone so you can get into your house, instead of having to break a window or a door down?

It is called being prepared.

 

I don't have two sets of house keys because that doesn't make any sense. If I drop my keys in the sewer, the spare keys are probably in my house...

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But allowing people to have multiple capes doesn't make the Fight Caves easier?

 

So if nothing is made easier then why do you want the update?

I don't, but others may want it simply for convenience?

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In real life MMO you don't get 99 smithing by making endless bronze daggers.

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But allowing people to have multiple capes doesn't make the Fight Caves easier?

 

So if nothing is made easier then why do you want the update?

I don't, but others may want it simply for convenience?

 

And my entire point is that "making something more convenient" and "this thing is really powerful" are not two ideas that should coexist.

 

If we want fire capes to be made more convenient then let's just hand them out at the door before you even kill anything.

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Twenty, you have yet to explain specifically why multiple capes are "bad" or how allowing multiple capes makes the Fight Caves less challenging. You're just using irrelevant straw man arguments.

 

You're making it sound like after you obtain your first cape, you can just waltz on in and grab a dozen more without any effort. That's not the case. If you want more capes, you have to put in the exact same effort as you did to get your first one.

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Twenty, you have yet to explain specifically why multiple capes are "bad" or how allowing multiple capes makes the Fight Caves less challenging. You're just using irrelevant straw man arguments.

 

You're making it sound like after you obtain your first cape, you can just waltz on in and grab a dozen more without any effort. That's not the case. If you want more capes, you have to put in the exact same effort as you did to get your first one.

 

Why make the change?

 

For convenience.

 

Why is convenience a good thing when obtaining the most powerful cape in the game?

 

 

Herein lies the fundamental logic that separated the new era of Runescape from the old era. In the new era, everyone just wants everything to be as streamlined as possible, and then we continue doing this over 1000 small updates and what we end up with is a game that is a lot easier.

 

You don't see this in any other game. You don't see high ranked WoW players being like "omg these bosses are too hard". Because the point of it being a boss in the first place is for it to be hard.

 

The point of having the Fight Caves is to give players a hoop to jump through to obtain power. If we start making that hoop more convenient then it starts to raise the question of why we even have the hoop in the first place.

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Why make the change?

 

For convenience.

 

Correct.

 

Why is convenience a good thing when obtaining the most powerful cape in the game?

 

1. If you complete the Fight Caves, you deserve the fire cape, yes?

2. If you complete the Fight Caves with a fire cape in your bank, do you no longer deserve a fire cape?

3. Are you asserting that convenience is bad? If so, why?

 

Herein lies the fundamental logic that separated the new era of Runescape from the old era. In the new era, everyone just wants everything to be as streamlined as possible, and then we continue doing this over 1000 small updates and what we end up with is a game that is a lot easier.

 

Making something more convenient and making something easier are not the same thing. Are you asserting that multiple capes makes the caves easier? If so, how?

 

You don't see this in any other game. You don't see high ranked WoW players being like "omg these bosses are too hard". Because the point of it being a boss in the first place is for it to be hard.

 

This point is irrelevant.

 

The point of having the Fight Caves is to give players a hoop to jump through to obtain power.

 

Yes.

 

If we start making that hoop more convenient then it starts to raise the question of why we even have the hoop in the first place.

 

Again, please explain how that hoop becomes more convenient by allowing multiple capes?

 

The Fight Caves' difficulty remains constant regardless of how many fire capes you are capable of collecting.

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Multiple fire capes wouldnt make fight caves easier, that's a ridiculous idea. The impact would be on other activities, not fight caves.

 

It would just be convenient for other stuff, like bossing or PKing.

 

It doesn't impact the games difficulty in any way - Just lets you plan and use your time, without an inconvenient trip back to fight caves getting in the way of your evening of blitz maul rushing. Sure you'll still have to go back for another spare, and it'l still be as hard as it ever was. - but not right now when you had planned to do something else.

 

Edit: Muggi beat me to it, lol.

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Maybe Twenty is just thoroughly confused as to the difference between convenience and difficulty.

 

Convenience is being able to have a stack of fire capes in your bank if you need to get back to PvM/PvP if you just lost yours after you died, but you'd have to beat the Fight Caves and TzTok-Jad for each cape you want.

 

Difficulty is whether you beat the Fight Caves after battling through 63 waves or just being handed the cape at the door.

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In real life MMO you don't get 99 smithing by making endless bronze daggers.

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Again, please explain how that hoop becomes more convenient by allowing multiple capes?

 

The Fight Caves' difficulty remains constant regardless of how many fire capes you are capable of collecting.

 

Nobody is saying that the monsters themselves become easier.

 

If it wasn't more convenient then nobody would want it.

 

Maybe Twenty is just thoroughly confused as to the difference between convenience and difficulty.

 

Convenience is being able to have a stack of fire capes in your bank if you need to get back to PvM/PvP if you just lost yours after you died, but you'd have to beat the Fight Caves and TzTok-Jad for each cape you want.

 

Difficulty is whether you beat the Fight Caves after battling through 63 waves or just being handed the cape at the door.

 

In a game like Runescape, there is no difficulty between convenience and difficulty. This game is only hard because of resource constraints. Many people have suggested things like "Let ores stack up to 20 in your inventory like in WoW" but that defeats the entire purpose of the system that RS operates around.

 

Similarly, owning multiple capes defeats the purpose of not giving you multiple capes in the first place. Like...do you really think the original design team couldnt figure out how to let you have 2 fire capes? No. They couldve done it from the start. But the original design team was like "F___ that...we want this cape to be something special. Not just some other item you get and toss in your bank, and then run around with carelessly."

 

It was made "1 cape only" for a purpose. And that purpose is my reason for wanting it to stay "1 cape only"

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Again, please explain how that hoop becomes more convenient by allowing multiple capes?

 

The Fight Caves' difficulty remains constant regardless of how many fire capes you are capable of collecting.

 

Nobody is saying that the monsters themselves become easier.

 

If it wasn't more convenient then nobody would want it.

????

 

Can you spell out your exact problem with having multiple fire capes. Is it that you don't want people to have a stack of them they can hold on to in case they happen to lose one? They're still putting in the required time/money (jumping through the 'hoop') for each cape they obtain.

 

EDIT:

In a game like Runescape, there is no difficulty between convenience and difficulty. This game is only hard because of resource constraints. Many people have suggested things like "Let ores stack up to 20 in your inventory like in WoW" but that defeats the entire purpose of the system that RS operates around.

 

Similarly, owning multiple capes defeats the purpose of not giving you multiple capes in the first place. Like...do you really think the original design team couldnt figure out how to let you have 2 fire capes? No. They couldve done it from the start. But the original design team was like "F___ that...we want this cape to be something special. Not just some other item you get and toss in your bank, and then run around with carelessly."

 

It was made "1 cape only" for a purpose. And that purpose is my reason for wanting it to stay "1 cape only"

THANK YOU

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In real life MMO you don't get 99 smithing by making endless bronze daggers.

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"Changing and updating the game in a way that players desire... You don't see this in any other game."

 

That is EXACTLY what MMOs are all about. If a game has crappy controls, people will complain, and develops will introduce better controls. If the game make absurd yet mostly unimportant decisions like only allowing you to obtain 1 of a certain item and the players complain, they will allow yo to obtain more. If the players complain about a boss being too hard, the developers will look towards making the player capable of killing the boss easier with fun updates (such as new weapons) or ignore these players if their claims are baseless and the boss is at a suitable difficulty level.

 

Most of what you say comes from a chain of half truths and huge logic leaps. Your argument that multiple firecapes gives you immediate satisfaction rather than forcing you to get a new one right when you need it, is a valid point. Now we must assess if that is truly something we want. Me personally? No. You? I can understand why you'd say yes, and respect your opinion on the subject. Let's put it to the poll.

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Ideally, yes, you would have a spare keyboard readily-available.

 

"It's supposed to be a reward for a challenging activity."

... so? You do said challenging activity twice, you get the reward twice. Where's the problem?

 

Also, I never once mentioned it making Fight Caves easier.

 

 

The rest of your post is completely unrelated.

 

Why do you want 2 capes?

Ease of access

 

Why is there a good reward from Fight Caves?

Because it isn't easy

 

So we are just adding a feature to make something easier when the point of that activity in the first place is to challenge players. Your fire cape should be a special item because it is a reward for doing something that is a pain. It becomes significantly less special if you can have 10 of them sitting in your bank from when you got bored and decided to train your range up doing fight caves. It should be something that you don't want to lose, at all times, unless you are prepared to have to earn it back.

I don't get where you read that allowing players to have two fire capes at once somehow made Fight Caves easier?

 

In a game like Runescape, there is no difficulty between convenience and difficulty. This game is only hard because of resource constraints. Many people have suggested things like "Let ores stack up to 20 in your inventory like in WoW" but that defeats the entire purpose of the system that RS operates around.

 

Similarly, owning multiple capes defeats the purpose of not giving you multiple capes in the first place. Like...do you really think the original design team couldnt figure out how to let you have 2 fire capes? No. They couldve done it from the start. But the original design team was like "F___ that...we want this cape to be something special. Not just some other item you get and toss in your bank, and then run around with carelessly."

 

It was made "1 cape only" for a purpose. And that purpose is my reason for wanting it to stay "1 cape only"

 

This is completely different. Mining ore isn't exactly something that is hard or anything, takes a second to click on the rock and mine the ore. In this case, allowing people to stack ores in their inventories would allow you to make less trips for the same amount of ore.

 

With allowing players to obtain multiple Fire capes, they are making the exact same amount Fight Caves trips every time, once per cape.

 

 

In the ore scenario, having ore stack effectively makes everything easier, as much fewer trips are required for the same amount of ores.

In the Fire cape scenario, the player purposefully chooses to re-do another run of the Fight Caves, effectively making his life 'harder' in order to have the extra benefits at the end of the line.

 

Sure, they'd allow people to not have to bother returning to the Fight Caves if they lose their cape, but why is that a bad thing? The player has put in more effort than someone who obtained only one cape!

 

 

If they were making an update that allowed people to have their lives made easier for no additional effort, then sure, complain.

But when making your life easier comes at the cost of increased effort... Why not?

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You are entirely confusing.

 

If I spend lets say 30 hours getting myself 10 firecapes to put in my bank that I can then access at any time or I spend 3 hours getting my first cape die with it and then have to go back and spend another 3 hours getting another - repeat until 10 capes obtained - I have still spent 30 hours getting fire capes.

 

If anything in the second scenario each time I do the fight caves my stats will of risen making each subsequent cape easier to obtain.

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