30-Apr-2013 - Instanced God Wars & EoC Updates

[aerendil]

The difference between Bandos and Torva's damage boost is trivial to the point of negligible. Other than cosmeticscape, there really isn't any point to owning nex sets right now.

 

but the defence difference is HUGE, torva has about 40-50% better defence...

[jayc3399]

Soo much whining, so I'm not sure yea'll deserve this!

 

http://gyazo.com/19ed6306877b6ff347d99e59d964a649

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

jk, enjoy the happy dance.

[Fallstar]

@above what you mean about deserving this? He posted that on his HLF feedback thread, anyone with access can read it o.O

 

[chenw]

The difference between Bandos and Torva's damage boost is trivial to the point of negligible. Other than cosmeticscape, there really isn't any point to owning nex sets right now.

 

but the defence difference is HUGE, torva has about 40-50% better defence...

 

Only if the defense actually matters. They closed the gap between the t70 and t80 in terms of damage (which is done by simultaneously adding damage to t70 and removing some from t80), so the difference between t70 and t80 is pretty much just defense. Defense only means something if it helps you survive attacks.

[Leik]

Tried Zilyana yesterday. Still a complete joke with melee. Didn't even need to use any food, which I was expecting to use following yesterday's update.

[xpx]

%'s vary depending on what you wear, which is REALLY odd. I really hope that was not intended.

 

Like, the effect of wearing barrow gloves depends on what other armor I have on, sometimes it'll up some blocks and reduce others, while other times just up some

How funny is it that it's been like that for 6 months now and people still have no idea how the system works. The only thing that has changed is the way things are represented(raw numbers vs practical information).

 

For reference, your defense against each individual style depends on EVERY class item you wear, while your offence is only hindered by body, legs and shield armor of the wrong class. Hybrid or cross-style items boost your defense against alternative styles while lowering that of the primary style. This is exactly why i'd wear all-class cape and ring with ranged class boots along with void to qbd- to boost defense against magic.

 

As for the update, i really have a feeling as though they cut their QA team(and deservedly so for how bad they've been over the years) and are using the live game as a prolonged beta-test, nowadays.

[J35u5_M4]

I really wish they'd reveal how does the system actually works, from what you said, I understand the following; when wearing hybrid armor, it'll try to balance your defences, reducing your highest, and improving your lowest? (Primary style being defined by either the type you have most def in, or the number of items you have of a corresponding style)

[Mylez]

It's no secret how defense system works, it's just somewhat invisible. I think it should be implemented onto the game interface somewhere, so players can understand it better. I always lol to myself when I see players in full melee gear fighting mages, or rangers. At the very least, change your boots.

[Arcley]

%'s vary depending on what you wear, which is REALLY odd. I really hope that was not intended.

 

Like, the effect of wearing barrow gloves depends on what other armor I have on, sometimes it'll up some blocks and reduce others, while other times just up some

How funny is it that it's been like that for 6 months now and people still have no idea how the system works. The only thing that has changed is the way things are represented(raw numbers vs practical information).

Exactly. It's a sign of an unintuitive system that people won't learn by playing the game, they need to look up the actual formulas to fully get it. Compare to what we had before EoC. You could easily add up positive and negative accuracy numbers from different items to see how effective a hybrid set is. None of this # of equipped items of class X matters more than their actual defense. I can't get over how bad design that is.

[Tansuo]

Fairly happy its nearing exam season now.. means I can skirt all this combat shit and return when its sorted (hopefully, but knowing Jagex...)

[mousepad]

At this point I just want some consistency.

[Blutters]

It's no secret how defense system works, it's just somewhat invisible. I think it should be implemented onto the game interface somewhere, so players can understand it better. I always lol to myself when I see players in full melee gear fighting mages, or rangers. At the very least, change your boots.

I'm not entirely sure what you meant to say. Why would you lol at someone in full melee gear fighting something that only uses Ranged? Isn't that practically the only time you should be wearing a full set of classed items - when you expect to be hit by only what you're strongest against?

[Sy_Accursed]

It's no secret how defense system works, it's just somewhat invisible. I think it should be implemented onto the game interface somewhere, so players can understand it better. I always lol to myself when I see players in full melee gear fighting mages, or rangers. At the very least, change your boots.

I'm not entirely sure what you meant to say. Why would you lol at someone in full melee gear fighting something that only uses Ranged? Isn't that practically the only time you should be wearing a full set of classed items - when you expect to be hit by only what you're strongest against?

 

Yeah full melee vs a ranger makes perfect sense - combat triangle at work.

Full melee vs mager doesn't - but this is runescape many people still want to blindly be one combat class and most pick melee as the old hat ruler of the roost.

 

It strikes me as odd that apprently hybrid gear is meant to lower some stats to push towards balance according to what you are wearing, seems very counter intuitive. I always assumed hybrid/all type gear just gave flat rate to all styles since that is kinda what you'd expect especially coming from the old system where hybrid gear was always like +100 to stab, slash, crush, range and mage def.

[Fallstar]

This hybrid thing makes no sense whatsoever.

 

If I equip a completionist cape, I do not expect my block chance versus ranged to decrease by 10-11%. Yet that is what happens.

[Alg]

This hybrid thing makes no sense whatsoever.

 

If I equip a completionist cape, I do not expect my block chance versus ranged to decrease by 10-11%. Yet that is what happens.

In the early days of the beta, 'hybrid' gear equalized your defenses, didn't it (As opposed to typeless gear giving a flat boost to everything)? This is probably a holdover from that, and there was a very good reason for doing away with it back then.

 

I know almost nothing about programming, but it feels like they just recycled the old and broken mechanics behind it, :wall:

[Ammako]

But that would appear to imply Hybrid would be different from All.

As I remember, All-type items (Berserker ring, Dragon rider boots come to mind) used to boost all three of my defences. Now, they lower my defence against the style I am strong to, while increasing (by a really small amount) my defense against my style. Didn't appear to increase my armour against the style I am weak to, although it could just mean that the number of armour I have vs that style is too low to be higher than 0%.

[baileydafrog]

i'm not sure if it was this update but i presume so, thok is now simple as hell again, at 96 attack anyway

[brunokiller]

i'm not sure if it was this update but i presume so, thok is now simple as hell again, at 96 attack anyway

 

Your stats are boosted to 150 in the Thok saga.

[baileydafrog]

ahh, at 150 then, i know it was almost impossible before an update, checking forums of people complaining still at 25th i presume it's from this one, since he hardly used to hit

[Quyneax]

The old defence system was about as follows:

 

Each piece of melee gear is counted - all-class equipment counts here too.

Same for ranged and magic.

 

Depending on what percentage of your equipped items is of one class, your defence is decided.

 

That means all-class equipment is counted three times. For example, wearing 2 pieces of each style and 2 all-class gives you 4/8 pieces for all styles.

 

I suspect the change in the system is that all-class now counts for less than a full piece per style, maybe half a piece, which means you will lose defence in your highest style, e.g.:

 

2 pieces of each style + 1 primary class = 3/7 for primary, 2/7 for other.

2 piece of each + 1 all class (counting for .5) = 2.5/7 for all. Better for others, but worse for primary.

 

Previously it would've been 3/7 and 2/7 vs. 3/7 all around, which also made onyx ring & barrows gloves very good, and skill/max capes.

[Leon S]

I miss the old combat system. It had its flaws, but I enjoyed it a lot more. I hope they will put it back someday.

 

It's been around eleven months since the EoC was first put into beta, and it's still an unbalanced mess. It brought some good things, though. Like super potions for range and magic, Anguish and Torment, new range and mage armor and some other things.

[muggiwhplar]

I wouldn't be surprised if they do a "traditional combat" referendum eventually lol

[Leon S]

Hopefully.

 

I'd like for them to get rid of abilities, bring back special attacks (but rebalance them) and bring back the old way they statted weapons and armor, with a bit of tweaking.

[chenw]

Special Attacks, abilities, whats the difference?

 

EDIT: on a more serious note, The old combat system had serious flaws that rebalancing Special attacks is just a start of that entire project.

 

Let us see... Weapons that were not labeled as Fastest was automatically junk before the CLS vs CR debate, before it wasn't even remotely a debate. The slower weapons all were used only for PvP or exclusively its special attack.

 

Second, Melee was far too overpowered compared to either ranged or magic. Sure, Magic had Ancients, but this is during an age where Multi-combat areas was few and far in between, thus the advantage of ancients being able to multi-hit was greatly diminished, arguably to the point of simply being gimmicky. It still had power in PvP, but that aspect of the game alone does not justify it being underpowered compared to Melee elsewhere in the game (ever seen anyone bossing in magic? I haven't).

 

At least in EoC, before the introduction of Drygores, all 3 combat styles had equal use throughout the game, rather than that dominated by melee.

[Hedgehog]

Special attacks were a bad mechanic imo.

If they removed basics and just left thresholds and ultimates with longer cooldowns, it would create a similar effect, just without the annoying pet items.