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30-Apr-2013 - Instanced God Wars & EoC Updates

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The attackers should stay MD as well.


best drops (reasonably accurate/up to date): 1x Elysian Sigil (LS), 1x Arcane Sigil (cs), 4x Armadyl Hilt (solo at 100m, 100m, 50m, and 5m), 2x Saradomin Hilt (solo at 25m), 5x Draconic Visage (34m,1.2m,1.2m) and various cs/ls/ffa Nex splits.
Drygore Drops: 7 Longswords, 3 Maces, 3 Rapiers, 3 Off-hand Rapiers,  5 Off-hand Maces, 3 Off-hand Longswords

ROTS Shields: 12  Seismics: 16

Ascension Crossbows: 6  Spider Legs: 10

Countless Armadyl armour pieces, Saradomin amulets, Dragon Hatchets, and Fremenik Rings.
Range~Herblore~Construction~Constitution~Defence~Farming~Magic~Attack~Prayer~Strength~Summoning~Slayer~Mining~Dungeoneering~Firemaking~Agility~Magic Mastery~Summoning Mastery~Cooking~Smithing~Fletching~Thieving~Hunter~Woodcutting~Fishing~Runecrafting

 

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Do the soulstones keep charges indefinitely, or are they used any time you enter the room, just off the soulstone instead? Also, if you get the soulstone then fight the normal version of the boss will it absorb those kills, or only those from hard mode?

I'm seeing little reason to bother with hard mode really...

 

Also on the topic of imbalance because there aren't T90 weapons for Ranged/Magic, I'll agree it's pretty dumb that they've waited this long. However, I can only assume it's because they want an equally challenging way of releasing them as KK.

At the moment, T80 weapons are kind of all over the place in difficulty. I think it goes without saying that Dungeoneering for Chaotics (other than Claws) and Nexing for Wand/Book/Bow are far more difficult than getting a Royal Crossbow, or Vine Whip (if Vine Whip is even truly T80).


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Got the Arma and Sara soulstones so far, charges are only gained from hard-mode bosses, and can be used to get into boss room again, charges are lost when this happens though. :sad:


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Barrows drops: Dharok's helm x2, Guthan's helm, Ahrim's top, Hood and skirt, Torag's hammers, Karils skirt, Karil's top, Torag's helm, Verac's skirt, Verac's Flail, Dharok's Platebody.

Dag kings drops: Lost count! :wall:

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Also on the topic of imbalance because there aren't T90 weapons for Ranged/Magic, I'll agree it's pretty dumb that they've waited this long. However, I can only assume it's because they want an equally challenging way of releasing them as KK.

 

It's only been 3.5 months since kk release, not very long imo.


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At the moment, T80 weapons are kind of all over the place in difficulty. I think it goes without saying that Dungeoneering for Chaotics (other than Claws) and Nexing for Wand/Book/Bow are far more difficult than getting a Royal Crossbow, or Vine Whip (if Vine Whip is even truly T80).

 

Vine whip is T75, but it says 80 because that's the slayer requirement.

 

Anyway, this really is a huge problem at every single tier. You can't say that the combat styles are equal to each other when the equipment for melee is generally much more expensive than the range or magic equivalents. I think that the main problem here is one mistake that Jagex repeats every single time they release new high-level equipment - that's the new items are the endgame equipment and will forever be the best. It's unbelievable how many times they've done the same mistake in 12 years.

 

2001: Here are the new rune weapons! They're the best weapons in the game, and you can only smith them at 85+ smithing.

2002: Here are new dragon weapons... but screw smithing, just do a few quests and buy them from a shop.

2003: The dragon sq shield is out! You need to complete the hardest quest in the game and get an ultra-rare drop to make one.

2004: Dragon chainbody - the best armor ever! You can get it from this new super strong monster.

2005: Dragon armor? Meh, here are four new sets of BARROWS armor that are much easier to obtain. Oh, dragon sq's still the best shield? No more, here's a new tkozt-xlit-lzikt that gives STRENGTH BONUS and is easier to get. And why would anyone use a dragon scimmy when you can use the new super sausages that you can only get after killing cave crawlers for 300 hours.

2006: lol ppl still use shields? Get these defenders instead, they're totally better.

2007: You still want shields? Just nail a dragon's face on an antidragon shield and you'll get more bonuses! Oh and here's a dragon full helm too, but we made it the rarest drop in the game from these new strong dragons to make sure it's useless for combat. And don't forget the new godswords, this armadyl sword one-hits ANYTHING!

2008: More shields! These new ones REDUCE DAMAGE and they're a super rare drop from this new strong boss. And these new claws instakill anything in case you don't like the godswords.

2009: You can now imbue your rings by playing this boring minigame for nine million hours! That +4 str!

2010: These CHAOTIC weapons are awesome! To get one you need to kill thousands of ass-weaver thuzlohzaks and gul'dul the hammerers, but they're totally worth it!

 

And so on. The point is that as someone else already said in this thread (or maybe it was another thread, whatever), Jagex never leaves any room for expansion. This was excusable back in 2001 because I doubt Andrew knew how large the game would eventually become, but by the the end of RS Classic they should've realized that Runescape wouldn't die anytime soon.

 

Thanks to special attacks even level 60 weapons were completely broken, and chaotics were insanely strong even without special attacks. While this problem is now solved, we're still left with dozens of items that are far too difficult to get for their level. This is mostly a melee problem (almost all dragon items, fire cape/tokhaar-kal, abyssal (vine) whip...) but there are plenty of magic (mystic (compare to batwing), grifolic) and range (seercull, dark bow) items that have the same flaw.

 

Another problem is that there are plenty of items that have no use whatsoever. What's the point of warhammers when maces do the same damage but have prayer bonus too? Why use a crystal shield that is in every way inferior to the ward of subjugation?

 

The only way to really solve this problem is to re-design all the equipment, but that's very hard to do at this point without breaking the whole game. The current system is a cluster[bleep] where nothing makes any sense. Dragon items require a million different quests unlike most of the other equipment, middle-level rune armor requires higher smithing levels than tetsu which is the strongest armor in the game, high-level range weapons are almost free, low-level armor that doesn't protect you from anything stronger than a cow lasts forever but super-strong ancient armors from the third age that make you nearly invincible only last 10 hours (not to mention that you can repair them with coins), high-level bosses like KQ drop level 60 items and despite there being plenty of level 80 equipment (the oldest being released three years ago) only a few monsters actually require them.

 

What a mess.

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Chaotics were only insanely strong because health boosts or soak were never rolled out properly. But I definitely do agree entirely.

 

Also, melee weapons only on that list. Woot :D.

 

The old system with health boosts equallying about 5x the level required to wear the armour would have been fine. Sure you hit 500s with rapier (at 80 stats), but in Torva you had 1200 lp and a ton of def, so it's not worse than hitting 300s on 900 lp like you do in f2p (rune 2h hit 30s right? I forget).


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99 ranged (28th November 2011) | 99 attack, 99 defence, 99 strength (11th December 2011) | 99 slayer (18th December 2011) | 99 magic (22nd December 2011) | 99 construction (16th March 2012)

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99 smithing (21st January 2013) | 120 dungeoneering (17th June 2013) | 99 divination (24th November 2013)

Tormented demon drops: twenty effigies, nine pairs of claws, two dragon armour slices and one elite clue | Dagannoth king drops: two dragon hatchets, two elite clues, one archer ring and one warrior ring

Glacor drops: four pairs of ragefire boots, one pair of steadfast boots, six effigies, two hundred lots of Armadyl shards, three elite clues | Nex split: Torva boots | Kalphite King split: off-hand drygore mace

30/30 Shattered Heart statues completed | 16/16 Court Cases completed | 25/25 Choc Chimp Ices delivered | 500/500 Vyrewatch burned | 584/584 tasks completed | 4000/4000 chompies hunted

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Post of the day, Runar.

 

I'm glad with the end of drygorescape we've seen some introduction of diversity back into PvM. But I agree, there are a whole host of useless items. What Jagex ought to do is implement a variety of passive effects, similar to specials, that actually make some weapons the best in certain areas. I can't tell you how if they don't out-dps drygores at a boss, but maybe they could allow for significantly prolonged trips even with somewhat slower kills, or else a chance at reducing certain ability cooldowns. Actually, weapons that reduce ability cooldowns could be really interesting. Jagex should also decrease the ability cooldown for equipment switching.


best drops (reasonably accurate/up to date): 1x Elysian Sigil (LS), 1x Arcane Sigil (cs), 4x Armadyl Hilt (solo at 100m, 100m, 50m, and 5m), 2x Saradomin Hilt (solo at 25m), 5x Draconic Visage (34m,1.2m,1.2m) and various cs/ls/ffa Nex splits.
Drygore Drops: 7 Longswords, 3 Maces, 3 Rapiers, 3 Off-hand Rapiers,  5 Off-hand Maces, 3 Off-hand Longswords

ROTS Shields: 12  Seismics: 16

Ascension Crossbows: 6  Spider Legs: 10

Countless Armadyl armour pieces, Saradomin amulets, Dragon Hatchets, and Fremenik Rings.
Range~Herblore~Construction~Constitution~Defence~Farming~Magic~Attack~Prayer~Strength~Summoning~Slayer~Mining~Dungeoneering~Firemaking~Agility~Magic Mastery~Summoning Mastery~Cooking~Smithing~Fletching~Thieving~Hunter~Woodcutting~Fishing~Runecrafting

 

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Also on the topic of imbalance because there aren't T90 weapons for Ranged/Magic, I'll agree it's pretty dumb that they've waited this long. However, I can only assume it's because they want an equally challenging way of releasing them as KK.

 

It's only been 3.5 months since kk release, not very long imo.

Yeah. And how often do they release huge new bosses? My point...

 

@Runar, I agree. (Not going to quote all that :P) But my actual point was that maybe, just maybe, they're trying NOT to make that same mistake at Tier 90 by only having T90 weapons come from bosses comparable to KK. And since they only release a boss like KK every year, maybe 2, if we're lucky, it could still be a while.


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Soulstones

Arma: z58igHA.png

Sara: 1baLwW7.png

Zammy: ClKOPLS.png

Not got bandos one yet.


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^^My blog of EoC PvM, lols and Therapy.^^

My livestream- Currently: Offline :(

Offical Harpy Therapist of the Mad

[hide=Lewtations]

Barrows drops: Dharok's helm x2, Guthan's helm, Ahrim's top, Hood and skirt, Torag's hammers, Karils skirt, Karil's top, Torag's helm, Verac's skirt, Verac's Flail, Dharok's Platebody.

Dag kings drops: Lost count! :wall:

4k+ Glacors, 7 Ragefires, 4 Steadfasts, 4 Glaivens, 400+ shards![/hide]

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I think it's getting a little out of hand now o.O

 

*Me is scaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa -goes on forever and ever and ever and ever and ever ..... :ohnoes:

 

Well basically for me Runescape is getting to an end PvM wise. It's getting a bit hopeless now =C

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Also on the topic of imbalance because there aren't T90 weapons for Ranged/Magic, I'll agree it's pretty dumb that they've waited this long. However, I can only assume it's because they want an equally challenging way of releasing them as KK.

 

It's only been 3.5 months since kk release, not very long imo.

Yeah. And how often do they release huge new bosses? My point...

 

@Runar, I agree. (Not going to quote all that :P) But my actual point was that maybe, just maybe, they're trying NOT to make that same mistake at Tier 90 by only having T90 weapons come from bosses comparable to KK. And since they only release a boss like KK every year, maybe 2, if we're lucky, it could still be a while.

 

Perhaps I don't understand what you're getting at then because we seem to agree they do not release new bosses with gear every 3.5 months, yet you think it's been too long. Are you saying we need new gear/bosses every 3.5 months and Jagex has been taking too long doing so since they started with "bosses" in 2004 with the kq?

 

t90 melee weapons may have been op, but if they did release mage/range t 90 at the same time they'd have been just as op. Should they have done all three styles at once? Maybe, but looking at Jagex history we could have another year to wait.


I am not a skiller, but i do some skills.

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We do agree. It's been too long. But this was to be expected based on boss release history. They shouldn't have released just T90 melee weapons without a plan to expediently roll out T90 Magic and Ranged, from new bosses or other equally challenging activites (Ports?).

But... JaGEx.

Or HtGEx. What the [bleep] ever they are now.

 

But allow me to convolute my point by adding that I suppose I would prefer them to take their sweet time, rather than screw up the 90 tier as they have all the others (as was the discussion last page).


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not necessarily new gear all day erry day

 

just gear across the triangle


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I think their interests lie in content appropriate releases. For example I am fairly certain they will have us a nice piece of weaponry from the ranged dungeon. Although I have a strange feeling this might be mostly to cover the growth of the ranged section by adding higher tier thrown weapons as well as arrows, too I suppose. I guess I'll claim this one as my "calling it" for the ranged dungeons drops.




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still waiting for them to put some of the offhand throwing weapons in

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Just went to Zil (not hard mode). She was just as easy as ever ( 8-) ). I did come close to dying on two separate occasions out of the many, many we killed her. Not necessarily update-related, but Flurry allowed us to kill each minion 2-3 times per boss, probably a solid 3 if I positioned myself efficiently everytime.


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how are your kills lasting long enough that you can use flurry 3 times?


DK drops (solo/LS): 66 hatchets, 14 archer rings, 13 berserker rings, 17 warrior rings, 12 seerculls, 13 mud staves, 7 seers rings

QBD drops: 1 kite, 2 visages, 4 dragonbone kits, 3 effigies, lots of crossbow parts

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That or the minions respawn so fast a single flurry killed them 2-3 times??


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So the current verdict of the EoC is this (if I understand it correctly):

 

It's a much needed replacement for the old combat system that is not complete yet at the high tier weaponry, or all-tier armours cuz they added the Hybrid Defensive and Offensive versions, and frankly some of the abilities coudl sue a polish as well... But seeing that they are still updating it with our feedback, it is not totally wrong to asume that we're going to end up with ~90% of a product that is acceptable...

 

Sound about right?


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So the current verdict of the EoC is this (if I understand it correctly):

 

It's a much needed replacement for the old combat system that is not complete yet at the high tier weaponry, or all-tier armours cuz they added the Hybrid Defensive and Offensive versions, and frankly some of the abilities coudl sue a polish as well... But seeing that they are still updating it with our feedback, it is not totally wrong to asume that we're going to end up with ~90% of a product that is acceptable...

 

Sound about right?

 

You missed

'and its a sodding pita cause every 'tweak' seems more like small children flailing wildly with limited concept of what is ACTUALLY useful in-game and has the combined effect of doing a number on any concept of stable prices as things jump from ok to useless nearly weekly. Plus having the basically re-learn setups nearly every week due to tweaks is a frigging nightmare.'


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[hide]

So the current verdict of the EoC is this (if I understand it correctly):

 

It's a much needed replacement for the old combat system that is not complete yet at the high tier weaponry, or all-tier armours cuz they added the Hybrid Defensive and Offensive versions, and frankly some of the abilities coudl sue a polish as well... But seeing that they are still updating it with our feedback, it is not totally wrong to asume that we're going to end up with ~90% of a product that is acceptable...

 

Sound about right?

[/hide]

No.

 

Let me fix that for you.

It's a replacement for the old combat system. It is not complete yet, weaponry, armour or ability-wise. Jagex still updates it and requests feedback. You can assume that we're going to end up with a product that is usable.

 

Old combat needed updates, but never the EoC we got in the end. Saying that 'old combat needed an update' doesn't mean EoC is any good - there's a lot of alternatives.

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Supporter of Zaros | Quest Cape owner since 22 may 2010 | No skills below 99 | Total level 2595 | Completionist Cape owner since 17th June 2013 | Suggestions

99 summoning (18th June 2011, previously untrimmed) | 99 farming (14th July 2011) | 99 prayer (8th September 2011) | 99 constitution (10th September 2011) | 99 dungeoneering (15th November 2011)

99 ranged (28th November 2011) | 99 attack, 99 defence, 99 strength (11th December 2011) | 99 slayer (18th December 2011) | 99 magic (22nd December 2011) | 99 construction (16th March 2012)

99 herblore (22nd March 2012) | 99 firemaking (26th March 2012) | 99 cooking (2nd July 2012) | 99 runecrafting (12th March 2012) | 99 crafting (26th August 2012) | 99 agility (19th November 2012)

99 woodcutting (22nd November 2012) | 99 fletching (31st December 2012) | 99 thieving (3rd January 2013) | 99 hunter (11th January 2013) | 99 mining (21st January 2013) | 99 fishing (21st January 2013)

99 smithing (21st January 2013) | 120 dungeoneering (17th June 2013) | 99 divination (24th November 2013)

Tormented demon drops: twenty effigies, nine pairs of claws, two dragon armour slices and one elite clue | Dagannoth king drops: two dragon hatchets, two elite clues, one archer ring and one warrior ring

Glacor drops: four pairs of ragefire boots, one pair of steadfast boots, six effigies, two hundred lots of Armadyl shards, three elite clues | Nex split: Torva boots | Kalphite King split: off-hand drygore mace

30/30 Shattered Heart statues completed | 16/16 Court Cases completed | 25/25 Choc Chimp Ices delivered | 500/500 Vyrewatch burned | 584/584 tasks completed | 4000/4000 chompies hunted

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Completely unrelated to this particular update, but I still wish they'd:

 

- completely remove adrenaline

- completely remove basic abilities

- increase the cooldown on thresholds to around 1 minute

- increase the cooldown on ultimates to 5 minutes and make it a global CD between ultimates

- remove momentum and increase auto attack damage to be somewhere between the current momentum and spamming basics

 

That stays far more true to how combat in RS was, whilst adding some diversity. (Having several activated thresholds, as well as the ultimate which basically takes the place that old spec attacks had)

 

It would also encourage more tactical use of abilities, as opposed to the current method of finding out/asking for the optimum rotation in a situation and spamming it over and over again. In that sense, EoC is just as repetitive and straightforward as pre eoc combat was, just each iteration takes slightly longer and is more tedious to perform.

 

The stuff they did making all combat styles equivalent (assuming we get T90 mage/ranged in the near future...) as well as changes to runes required for magic are all good and can stay.

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It's still possible to solo Kril 15-20 times per inventory including a yak.




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I hoped for a bit more kills =/ I think around 40-50 would be good to last...


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?' Actually, who are you not to be?~ Marianne Williamson

 

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I wouldn't mind if they kept in the adrenaline system, but got rid of all basic abilities. Auto attacks only should generate adrenaline, and should be consumed by using treshold and ultimate abilities. Treshold abilities could have a 1 minute CD, and ultimates 3 or 5 minutes. Give some weapons their own abilities to make them stand out from the rest, like Godswords.

 

That would make combat so much more enjoyable for me.

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