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The degradation of Old School RS


AstroTeemoGG
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Would anyone in this discussion find this interesting?

http://misplaceditem...online.php?peak

 

As expected, the peak population is dropping. But it really seems to be dropping quicker than at first.

 

Oh this can't be good. Quick, hide it before the EoC and OSRS extremist come back to "debate".

 

In all seriousness this shouldn't be another EoC vs. OSRS debate. It should really talk about how we can keep OSRS alive, which I think OP was trying to get to (which I think there is already an existing topic, tweeks that should be added to OSRS).

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"Goals dont have a deadline." -xxxgod quoting Lady Shahdie

[slayer "Essentials"][click pic for main blog][click quote for mini blog][Worthwhile Auras]

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Would anyone in this discussion find this interesting?

http://misplaceditem...online.php?peak

 

As expected, the peak population is dropping. But it really seems to be dropping quicker than at first.

 

Oh this can't be good. Quick, hide it before the EoC and OSRS extremist come back to "debate".

 

In all seriousness this shouldn't be another EoC vs. OSRS debate. It should really talk about how we can keep OSRS alive, which I think OP was trying to get to (which I think there is already an existing topic, tweeks that should be added to OSRS).

 

 

That's the exact point I tried to make with my first post, but apparently someone doesn't have an updated Webster's dictionary, thus distracting me from what I meant.

 

Anyways, I think saving the game is up to Jagex. If they continue to show interest then the player base will as well and vice versa.

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Would anyone in this discussion find this interesting?

http://misplaceditem...online.php?peak

 

As expected, the peak population is dropping. But it really seems to be dropping quicker than at first.

It is interesting. Can I be the one to point out the different demographic between the two games?

 

Many on my friendlist are currently taking it slow due to end of term university exams, and intend to hit it hard after their exams have passed.

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Would anyone in this discussion find this interesting?

http://misplaceditem...online.php?peak

 

As expected, the peak population is dropping. But it really seems to be dropping quicker than at first.

It is interesting. Can I be the one to point out the different demographic between the two games?

 

Many on my friendlist are currently taking it slow due to end of term university exams, and intend to hit it hard after their exams have passed.

 

Does Jagex have a public source of demographics?

 

 

 

That's the exact point I tried to make with my first post, but apparently someone doesn't have an updated Webster's dictionary, thus distracting me from what I meant.

 

Anyways, I think saving the game is up to Jagex. If they continue to show interest then the player base will as well and vice versa.

 

I think the player base alone can convince Jagex to work at the game. Afterall, how else did they get OSRS.

 

One of the problems I see is player questioning if they should go to OSRS because they don't want to waste time getting pk ready when in a few months it will be gone. Imo, it appears then it isn't Jagex's fault if OSRS fails.

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"Goals dont have a deadline." -xxxgod quoting Lady Shahdie

[slayer "Essentials"][click pic for main blog][click quote for mini blog][Worthwhile Auras]

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I would agree with that, but if Jagex continues to at least put on a front of interest in the game, the game will continue to be successful. They need to listen to the MAJORITY of the people though, not 75%. It becomes a Jagex run game again, which is the reason why a lot of people who quit RS in the first place quit. They need to take into account what players ACTUALLY want for the games base to continue wanting to come back.

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I would agree with that, but if Jagex continues to at least put on a front of interest in the game, the game will continue to be successful. They need to listen to the MAJORITY of the people though, not 75%. It becomes a Jagex run game again, which is the reason why a lot of people who quit RS in the first place quit. They need to take into account what players ACTUALLY want for the games base to continue wanting to come back.

 

You know, it's funny but we are actually really good at complaining. We say Jagex needs to listen to the majority I can only recall 1 time the majority and 1 time even the half the player base wanted something so bad, and those are the reverse of the removal of free trade and bringing in OSRS. For all the crap we give Jagex few of us have hardly said "Thank you". What's worse it that the player base at this moment looks like the US Congress. There are so many lobbyist groups that it's hard to get a majority on anything. Only difference between US Congress lobbyist and us is that the former seems to get stuff done for them. They are good at making themselves look like the majority when they aren't.

 

We always say Jagex needs to do more for us how many of us have looked at what Jagex is trying to do and offer help? Every new update is "Oh this will be DOA" or "Lame, do something else" or "Lrn2fixyourgame". Even the "Great job Jagex" aren't as helpful as they can be. That's all we do, we [bleep] and moan. When EoC was in "official" Beta form few players played it. It's fine it you don't like it but if players actually thought about what Jagex was doing they could have gone "Well while I don't like it I see what Jagex wants to do and I think if they did this they could achieve it". And no I don't mean "Get rid of EoC".

 

Long story short Jagex wants new players but instead of helping them get them by collectively offering new ideas and insight into how we play their game we complain with our own lobbyist group.

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29386_s.gif

"Goals dont have a deadline." -xxxgod quoting Lady Shahdie

[slayer "Essentials"][click pic for main blog][click quote for mini blog][Worthwhile Auras]

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My early complaints have been fulfilled through polls, I hope GWD comes one day but I won't be too upset if it doesn't. I'd like quick prayers and also visible HP/Prayer, but I don't need them.

 

I can't think of any way to attract more players to OSRS, it's objectively a very simple and dated game that requires a lot of time to sink into and an intimidating amount of information to learn. A free trial and wide spread adverts would be the best bet, I guess.

 

As long as the servers remain alive there will always be a core player base for me to PK. I am content.

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Many on my friendlist are currently taking it slow due to end of term university exams, and intend to hit it hard after their exams have passed.

Yeah, I agree. Chances are that the players that play OSRS are older players that played back in 2006-2008, while EoC would have many more younger players that don't have as much school work to do.

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Many on my friendlist are currently taking it slow due to end of term university exams, and intend to hit it hard after their exams have passed.

Yeah, I agree. Chances are that the players that play OSRS are older players that played back in 2006-2008, while EoC would have many more younger players that don't have as much school work to do.

Indeed, or they do have the work, but don't take it seriously.

 

Regarding the post asking if Jagex has a public source of demographics - I'm not entirely sure what you are asking, but in a thread basically discussing the absolute dearth of new players, it can only logically imply an older average age on 07 than that on EoC.

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I would agree with that, but if Jagex continues to at least put on a front of interest in the game, the game will continue to be successful. They need to listen to the MAJORITY of the people though, not 75%. It becomes a Jagex run game again, which is the reason why a lot of people who quit RS in the first place quit. They need to take into account what players ACTUALLY want for the games base to continue wanting to come back.

 

 

I didn't mean it to be a "woe is me," type post, simply stating that Jagex seems to not pay attention to a lot of great ideas out there. If they'd make themselves just a tad bit more available, and maybe gave players on the brink of a great idea some feedback of there own it would probably help. And a majority is what 51% wants. Not every update is going to please every player, period, end of story. It would just keep 51% of the player base (or more) happier for a longer period of time. I think that's more or less what I was getting at. Keep the most players involved for the longest you can possibly string them a long.

 

 

EDIT: quoted my own post and not the whole thing, too lazy to change it though, oh well.

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I am a quite different player and I am done with OSRS. I started RS in about 2009. I am older (62) and tend to get interrupted by family things, so I have problems with tasks that require continuous 1-2 hour sessions. Also, I really hate certain time waster aspects of the game. Here is why I will not be back.

 

1. Lack of a GE. I do not like to spend lots of time buying/selling and just typing while standing in a bank trying to accumulate items to use. I like being able to ask for 50,000 maple logs and come back 3 days later and finding them (I use that stash for fm XP). Also, I like being able to sell smaller lots of less common items for cash (my current favorite is raw summer pies to people who get summer pies for daily challenges). That way I can get on with the variety of the game rather than having to specialize and work single skills to get effeciencies of trade.

 

2. Excess of clicking--especially things like grinding chocolate bars and simple making operations.

 

3. The slowness of XP gain. In over 2 months (before I quite in late April), I only got to about 3M XP and the speed-up is too slow. I can get well over 1M a week in EOC version is fewer hours.

 

4. The excess of bots. Many times in the mining guild, it was 6 bots and me. It is going to take Jagex and its small team quite some time to integrate the bot-killer routines into OSRS, because of the difference in the code.

 

I seem to be at odds with the majority of posters I see. That is OK for OS. I may look back in occasionally, but I doubt I will spend much time in the future.

 

Incidentally, I sort of like EOC. It added more variety and decision making to combat. While I do not PK (partly because I am not as quick on keys as many younger players; I prefer more thinking and strategy style games). Incidentally, I virtually never play first person shooters; my preference is more for the Total War series of games and games in the Master of Orion/Civilization series. Makes me quite different from the typical gamer. Also, I simply do not have hours to play, except what I steal from sleep late at night.

 

I suspect that we will see OSRS down to around 10,000 players by later fall, and it will slowly die from there. (Remember, it is just over 20,000 at peak now, but EOC is 70,000+ and most of that is P2P). Also, EOC seems to have a much better handle on bots now. I am not sure what the percentage of bits in OSRS is, but maybe as much as half the OS players may be bots from my experience.

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A lot of the themes raised in this thread have also been attributed to the so-called "deaths" of other MMORPGs. I'm not sure if a lot of this criticism is about OSRS vs EoC RS specifically, or a trend that can translated generally to the genre, which when you look at the video gaming industry as a whole, is a weak genre, and getting weaker by the year. The loss of the "laid back, sociable" community can probably be explained by the recent rise of arcade-era gaming genres which are more casual-friendly, and are more able to provide the emotional experience those groups of people are wanting from a game.

 

If there's any part of RuneScape which was most to blame for driving those groups away from RuneScape, it was probably skillcapes and their consequent unrelenting focus on achievement-setting and goal-planning, not EoC. If you accept that, you accept that the damage was done many years ago (predating OSRS) and the current situation is more a scarring from actions taken back then. I know people (and I'd hardly describe them as 'efficienados') who quite casually talk about spending seven or eight hours per day grinding a skill to achieve 99 by a certain date. No matter how much you look at EoC, while that mentality exists across the whole community, you will never attract the kind of people who only want to play/can only play for one, two, maybe three hours a day, while taking things at a slow pace so they can be more sociable and laid back. Skillcapes, more than anything else, removed any notion that you could play RuneScape on a casual basis and still hope to progress at a pace relative to anyone else around you.

 

tl;dr -- The "death" of RuneScape's community is more likely due to competition from outside the MMORPG genre, and even if there is a problem with RuneScape driving people away, it's not likely to be EoC.

 

Probably the best response on this thread thus far.

 

I remember back in 2003-2004 I was able to level at my own pace and still keep up with the vast majority of players. Now with this "grind" mentality existing across both EoC and Old School, I'm having to play several hours per day in order to keep up.

 

Personally I feel the "death" of Runescape's community is a combination of competition from other genres along with Jagex's incompetence to please the majority. The bottom line is several factors contributing to the decline, too many to list in one post.

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Goals: 155/175 QP

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If the problem is people feeling the need to grind in order to keep up, then the problem is the players, not the skillcapes. If you aren't content simply leveling when you can and doing what you like in the game during the time that you have to play, then that is on you. Now I don't claim to always be above the need to "keep up" with other players, but frankly I feel relief when I look at the top players, who already have over 100 million total XPs, and realize that I could never possibly keep up with that. It cures me of any desire to try to grind in order to keep up, and I just do what I want in the game with the time I have.

 

People will always play games to be competitive and be recognized as a good player. That isn't Jagex's fault. As the game grew in popularity, it was inevitable that more players would feed into that mentality. If that's what you believe is hurting the game, then it was destined to die with or without skillcapes.

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I feel like a lot of pkers think EOC is bad because they're inadequate. Granted, I'm sure a lot of them haven't tried it, but some have. Those who have given it a chance and still don't like it are probably just bad at using a more complex system. Before EOC, you could just click on another player, eat when low on hp, and switch to a ko weapon when they're low on hp. That requires almost no skill. A monkey could be trained to do it.

 

Now, in order to kill another player, you have to make sure you follow the combat triangle, use abilities at the correct time and in the correct order, and manage your health and prayer appropriately. Honestly, it's pretty tough. There's a lot of stuff to focus on and it requires a lot of knowledge. This is what pking should be like, and, really, any complaint about it is just because it's too hard.

 

I'll admit that there are some issues with the EOC. For example, there are only level 90 melee weapons, none for ranged or magic. They can almost tear through any armor, at least any armor cheap enough to be risked. They're cheap enough to be ubiquitous, though, so it's fair, at least. There are a few more quirks and unsatisfactory bits, but, honestly, they're not worth quitting over. There's a lot more wrong with 07 than there is with post-EOC RuneScape.

sorry i disagree...

i like 07 so much more( pk)

i tried eoc pking...

 

eoc: no need to bring runes to bind

rangers and mages are op

each class has a bind ( which defeats alot of the magic book purpose...)

noone asks to fight

in eoc you cant tank getting rushed....

 

07: people can rush you but at least you can eat through it if your awake (in eoc you cant eat through it cuz when rangers bind it stops you from eating, while the bind does an enourmous hit...)

its not ridiculous hit odds ( in eoc you can hit between 2000 and 1... what the ...)

07 is understandable and not to complicated (eoc is rtarted pk)

07 you need to work for your stuff (eoc is for pus y s )

theres so much more...

 

however i can tell you that if i ran into the wildy in eoc whith frull dharok and d claws as soon as i hit level 5 i would meet a mage and the mage would rush me and whithin 10 secounds (less) i would be dead.

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I feel like a lot of pkers think EOC is bad because they're inadequate. Granted, I'm sure a lot of them haven't tried it, but some have. Those who have given it a chance and still don't like it are probably just bad at using a more complex system. Before EOC, you could just click on another player, eat when low on hp, and switch to a ko weapon when they're low on hp. That requires almost no skill. A monkey could be trained to do it.

 

Now, in order to kill another player, you have to make sure you follow the combat triangle, use abilities at the correct time and in the correct order, and manage your health and prayer appropriately. Honestly, it's pretty tough. There's a lot of stuff to focus on and it requires a lot of knowledge. This is what pking should be like, and, really, any complaint about it is just because it's too hard.

 

I'll admit that there are some issues with the EOC. For example, there are only level 90 melee weapons, none for ranged or magic. They can almost tear through any armor, at least any armor cheap enough to be risked. They're cheap enough to be ubiquitous, though, so it's fair, at least. There are a few more quirks and unsatisfactory bits, but, honestly, they're not worth quitting over. There's a lot more wrong with 07 than there is with post-EOC RuneScape.

sorry i disagree...

i like 07 so much more( pk)

i tried eoc pking...

 

eoc: no need to bring runes to bind

rangers and mages are op

each class has a bind ( which defeats alot of the magic book purpose...)

noone asks to fight

in eoc you cant tank getting rushed....

 

07: people can rush you but at least you can eat through it if your awake (in eoc you cant eat through it cuz when rangers bind it stops you from eating, while the bind does an enourmous hit...)

its not ridiculous hit odds ( in eoc you can hit between 2000 and 1... what the ...)

07 is understandable and not to complicated (eoc is rtarted pk)

07 you need to work for your stuff (eoc is for pus y s )

theres so much more...

 

however i can tell you that if i ran into the wildy in eoc whith frull dharok and d claws as soon as i hit level 5 i would meet a mage and the mage would rush me and whithin 10 secounds (less) i would be dead.

You realize that you pretty much agreed with me. You prefer 07's style of pking over RuneScape's style because you're inadequate at the more demanding style of pvp.

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I feel like a lot of pkers think EOC is bad because they're inadequate. Granted, I'm sure a lot of them haven't tried it, but some have. Those who have given it a chance and still don't like it are probably just bad at using a more complex system. Before EOC, you could just click on another player, eat when low on hp, and switch to a ko weapon when they're low on hp. That requires almost no skill. A monkey could be trained to do it.

 

Now, in order to kill another player, you have to make sure you follow the combat triangle, use abilities at the correct time and in the correct order, and manage your health and prayer appropriately. Honestly, it's pretty tough. There's a lot of stuff to focus on and it requires a lot of knowledge. This is what pking should be like, and, really, any complaint about it is just because it's too hard.

 

I'll admit that there are some issues with the EOC. For example, there are only level 90 melee weapons, none for ranged or magic. They can almost tear through any armor, at least any armor cheap enough to be risked. They're cheap enough to be ubiquitous, though, so it's fair, at least. There are a few more quirks and unsatisfactory bits, but, honestly, they're not worth quitting over. There's a lot more wrong with 07 than there is with post-EOC RuneScape.

sorry i disagree...

i like 07 so much more( pk)

i tried eoc pking...

 

eoc: no need to bring runes to bind

rangers and mages are op

each class has a bind ( which defeats alot of the magic book purpose...)

noone asks to fight

in eoc you cant tank getting rushed....

 

07: people can rush you but at least you can eat through it if your awake (in eoc you cant eat through it cuz when rangers bind it stops you from eating, while the bind does an enourmous hit...)

its not ridiculous hit odds ( in eoc you can hit between 2000 and 1... what the ...)

07 is understandable and not to complicated (eoc is rtarted pk)

07 you need to work for your stuff (eoc is for pus y s )

theres so much more...

 

however i can tell you that if i ran into the wildy in eoc whith frull dharok and d claws as soon as i hit level 5 i would meet a mage and the mage would rush me and whithin 10 secounds (less) i would be dead.

You realize that you pretty much agreed with me. You prefer 07's style of pking over RuneScape's style because you're inadequate at the more demanding style of pvp.

 

aha sorry, i was describing the differences... (from my perspective) cuz i realized you said most people hate eoc pk because they havent tryed it out yet, i beg to differ, there were many eoc pkers before 07 came out, so alot of people tryed it.

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If the problem is people feeling the need to grind in order to keep up, then the problem is the players, not the skillcapes. If you aren't content simply leveling when you can and doing what you like in the game during the time that you have to play, then that is on you. Now I don't claim to always be above the need to "keep up" with other players, but frankly I feel relief when I look at the top players, who already have over 100 million total XPs, and realize that I could never possibly keep up with that. It cures me of any desire to try to grind in order to keep up, and I just do what I want in the game with the time I have.

 

People will always play games to be competitive and be recognized as a good player. That isn't Jagex's fault. As the game grew in popularity, it was inevitable that more players would feed into that mentality. If that's what you believe is hurting the game, then it was destined to die with or without skillcapes.

The 'keeping up' element is with regard to team/clan members, if you can't level fast enough you cant Pk together - So what's the point?

 

OSRS is/will decline because it will lose/is losing the veteran playerbase who, like myself were lured back from IRL to enjoy a couple of months of madness to relive their teens. Older people with balanced lives can glean little satisfaction from stolen hours here and there once the experience slows down and the levels stop coming, and will return to more satisfaction efficient IRL interests...

 

OSRS will end up a contrasting mix of top table skillers racing for reputation, and botting pkers+stakers who return to their PC in the evening for a few hours of privateserveresque edgeville/easts/mage bank/DA

 

But it is what it is, and I'm really glad to have given it one last shot. (y)

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'Rock Hard' boss pure - 60/60 Attack | 99/99 Range | 1/1 Defence | 44/44 Prayer | 99/99 Strength | 99/99 Mage - level 79 combat EOC

 

## '07 Server ## "Best Runescape update ever: Removing 6 years of updates."

 

Rock_Hard.png

 

"Warning: If you are reading this then this warning is for you. Every word you read of this useless fine print is another second off your life. Don't you have other things to do? Is your life so empty that you honestly can't think of a better way to spend these moments? Or are you so impressed with authority that you give respect and credence to all that claim it? Do you read everything you're supposed to read? Do you think every thing you're supposed to think? Buy what you're told to want? Get out of your apartment. Meet a member of the opposite sex. Stop the excessive shopping and masturbation. Quit your job. Start a fight. Prove you're alive. If you don't claim your humanity you will become a statistic. You have been warned- Tyler"

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Rock Hard, I like your Fight Club reference in your signature. Oops, I think I broke a rule or two...oh well.

 

 

 

Anyways, I totally agree with you Rock, in one sense, but I think Jagex actually wants these servers to stay alive for awhile. If anything it'll keep some people interested while they take heat for RS3 bugs and such. I think it's more or less them knowing RS3 is coming, and them providing a distraction so people don't have to deal with early, albeit inevitable, problems.

 

 

Maybe that's just me, and maybe that made no sense, but that's my random rambling.

 

 

 

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For me, EoC made things far too complex. What I like about RS is its simplicity. If I wanted stuff like abilities, armor tiers, and a hundred other things I'd play some other game. RS07 lets me play the game I enjoy, and I'm betting there are a lot of other players like me who feel the same way. We may have already gotten to the point where it is mostly those players who are playing RS07, but I think that player base is here to stay, especially if we get the odd update now and then that gives us a bit of new content.

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I didn't like the flagstaff, but put up with it.

I didn't like the wheel, but put up with it.

I didn't like the merch clans like smokin mills which openly RWT'ed while Jagex did nothing. (they are still active, some goldselling sites have weekly dropparties, WHY DOESNT JAGEX DO SOMETHING ABOUT THAT?)

Then came the item shop where you could buy items with real cash and that was the final straw for me.

 

I enjoy this version of the game but if any of the above makes it into this version, I'm done again.

 

I kinda hope this version gets less popular, so bots and EOC-07traders will disappear.

 

How can people like EOC when you can alch whips with profit now. :?

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