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105 replies to this topic

#21
Daviddts
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Daviddts

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Something mentioned a lot here is how little P-Mods do now muting wise, which I think should be clarified that for the past few years we were muting pretty much nothing, but slowly it's been changing. Of course, you're not going to see full out muting like in the past for things like saying little things, but I think major issues will resume being tackled, we can already see how gambling was cleared. The P-Mod role changing has been really hidden, and a lot of what's going on isn't being announced publically, which is something I think may be important. From my prospective, P-Mods are currently moving to a "balance" between community engagements and rule enforcing. Jagex doesn't want a player controlling others, they want players taking out situations that could lead to harm, or heavy disruption, but also players who care for the community and will not mis-use their power.

Of course, that's from my VP. I will read all other things when I get time, I've read over most post so far. I thank all of oyu for taking the time to contribute!:)

#22
Ring_World
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My only desire is for more PMods to be put into the game. It seems like they're "useless" because there just isn't that many compared to "normal" players.

Otherwise, all the PMods I know are good people and good role models, not always the best, but serviceable for there overall purpose. Just wish more people had the chance of becoming one, as well as more abilities and defined paths they should follow.


I might be biased because of this but I had an irl friend who was a pmod and he was the worst scum of a player i've ever seen and abused his power to the uptmost.

I never really got the need for a player to be there to mute other players. There should be more automated ways of preventing spam like blizzard has.

#23
Thus
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Something mentioned a lot here is how little P-Mods do now muting wise, which I think should be clarified that for the past few years we were muting pretty much nothing, but slowly it's been changing. Of course, you're not going to see full out muting like in the past for things like saying little things, but I think major issues will resume being tackled, we can already see how gambling was cleared. The P-Mod role changing has been really hidden, and a lot of what's going on isn't being announced publically, which is something I think may be important. From my prospective, P-Mods are currently moving to a "balance" between community engagements and rule enforcing. Jagex doesn't want a player controlling others, they want players taking out situations that could lead to harm, or heavy disruption, but also players who care for the community and will not mis-use their power.

Of course, that's from my VP. I will read all other things when I get time, I've read over most post so far. I thank all of oyu for taking the time to contribute! :)

You guys didn't even mute spambots when they flooded every world. You guys have always been useless.

#24
abellus
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For one, I think they should expand the amount of Player Moderators. I see far too few of them outside of crowded places like Deamonheim or Grand Exchange. Weren't they planning on expanding the Player Moderator team by another 8,000 people? Further on, I think their original role is now made near obsolete due BotWatch, however there are still a lot of situations where a player should be muted, as that is the only thing a player moderator can do, and it's frustrating that there is no Player Moderator nearby who could act on it.


I would like to explore a new division of Player Moderators, one that we currently have, that is their original purpose helping people around and reporting obvious bugs directly with Jagex Moderators but also dealing with Bots, Scammers and Spammers, and one that Jagex is now aiming to achieve; Community Player Moderators. The idea is nice, but it ends up that those people who are the most famous or infamous (watching you woox ;D!) gets asked to be a Player Moderator. Ofcourse this is not always the case.


Expand the team to another 8000? Are you suggesting we transform Runescape into a police state?

Expanding and allocating more power to an organisation that is already partly corrupt would be ruinous to the Runescape community. Player moderators should have never existed in the first place. Regular players should not be given the power to mute other players. It's a system that assumes that every single player moderator won't abuse his power at some point in time. Considering the number of player moderators who are frequently paid off to mute certain individuals that big-boss chatroom leaders don't like, I'd say the system has failed. I tense up when I see a player moderator at the Grand Exchange, because I know that's where they usually do their dirty business. Why should I have to be terrified of my fellow players in a safe zone?

I know the grand majority of player moderators are very nice, non-corrupt people. But the system just isn't worth it when you have even a few dozen who abuse their powers on a regular basis.

Scrap it entirely. I don't care if you value justice more than your average player, you're still human and you still make mistakes like every non-Pmod player. Denying that fact is ignorance on your part. Let the developers control the justice system in their own game.

#25
V O R K
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1; Let them lose their Pmodship if powers are abused; i've had two mutes thusfar (I rarely speak in public chat) which I had to appeal and there was no censucitive proof for but at both times a Pmod was there.
2. Dealing with bots & scammers, spammers.
3. ^do your job.
4. Bots
5. see 1

I agree with the above poster, power corrupts, keep it out of player hands not to say that there aren't genuine, honest Pmods.
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#26
Gotta Eat
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I've met only one corrupt PMod in my time, and that was in my clan. He muted me for asking about another chat, which was quickly reversed by Jagex. While there roles are much different from when I started, they often still do serve a purpose. I just know a lot of people who would make great mods who never get the chance. I myself always help when I can, and always have. I think that this "thankless job," would be much better served with a wider, more responsive group of people. It's hard to not feel as if the PMods nowadays are useless and cold when there is a maximum of 2 or 3 per world. That number can't field every question, complaint, and request people have.

#27
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Yeahhhhhh - no. They don't listen to the Player Moderators any more than they listen to the MAX players -- or any other player with a good idea or good intentions, for that matter.

I mean, really, when was the last time that Jagex “listened to the players” and then followed that up with genuinely useful content that was little more than a total FUBAR of the original issue?


Posted Image

Numerous changes have actually been brought into the game on this thread and Chris L explains the reasoning behind stuff every week or two. I mean, I have very negative opinions of Jagex as a whole, but credit where credit's due.

Here's some of the stuff that he changed after listening to player feedback.

Posted Image

So there's at least one half decent JMod :P


Is it just me or is that a pretty narrow range of improvements? Most of which seem to circulate around the Completionist Cape ... :unsure:

nyuseg.png


#28
Fallstar
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That's just a sample I could be bothered to pic. He's made a few dozen posts in that thread like this

Posted Image

(the post was several times longer than what I can fit in one pic without splicing them together)

discussing and implementing changes on basically anything.

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#29
Ammako
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What you have in the HLF is a bunch of very knowledgeable trolls. Yes, you get a bunch of terrible, useless, annoying posts (usually from the same handful of names) but there are also a lot of pretty good ideas coming from the forum, it just needs to be sorted correctly.

You mean like most of the other RSOF sections?

#30
Stev
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Yeahhhhhh - no. They don't listen to the Player Moderators any more than they listen to the MAX players -- or any other player with a good idea or good intentions, for that matter.

I mean, really, when was the last time that Jagex “listened to the players” and then followed that up with genuinely useful content that was little more than a total FUBAR of the original issue?


http://puu.sh/32wJv.jpg

Numerous changes have actually been brought into the game on this thread and Chris L explains the reasoning behind stuff every week or two. I mean, I have very negative opinions of Jagex as a whole, but credit where credit's due.

Here's some of the stuff that he changed after listening to player feedback.

http://puu.sh/32wOi.png

So there's at least one half decent JMod :P


Is it just me or is that a pretty narrow range of improvements? Most of which seem to circulate around the Completionist Cape ... :unsure:

4 of the 18 visible before the page cuts. And do you expect people on the HLF to suggest improvements to Nexus and other low-level content?

09144a99bb.png


#31
strilmus
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Which I see as a flaw of relying on solely maxed players for important input, but hey, I guess you take what you can get.

another thing I don't get is why we look to players who don't have to actually play the game anymore as far as progression goes (in terms of increasing your means of playing the game, as opposed to just making a number larger for prestige), while most of the important updates involve progression

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#32
Miss Lioness
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For one, I think they should expand the amount of Player Moderators. I see far too few of them outside of crowded places like Deamonheim or Grand Exchange. Weren't they planning on expanding the Player Moderator team by another 8,000 people? Further on, I think their original role is now made near obsolete due BotWatch, however there are still a lot of situations where a player should be muted, as that is the only thing a player moderator can do, and it's frustrating that there is no Player Moderator nearby who could act on it.


I would like to explore a new division of Player Moderators, one that we currently have, that is their original purpose helping people around and reporting obvious bugs directly with Jagex Moderators but also dealing with Bots, Scammers and Spammers, and one that Jagex is now aiming to achieve; Community Player Moderators. The idea is nice, but it ends up that those people who are the most famous or infamous (watching you woox ;D!) gets asked to be a Player Moderator. Ofcourse this is not always the case.


Expand the team to another 8000? Are you suggesting we transform Runescape into a police state?

Expanding and allocating more power to an organisation that is already partly corrupt would be ruinous to the Runescape community. Player moderators should have never existed in the first place. Regular players should not be given the power to mute other players. It's a system that assumes that every single player moderator won't abuse his power at some point in time. Considering the number of player moderators who are frequently paid off to mute certain individuals that big-boss chatroom leaders don't like, I'd say the system has failed. I tense up when I see a player moderator at the Grand Exchange, because I know that's where they usually do their dirty business. Why should I have to be terrified of my fellow players in a safe zone?

I know the grand majority of player moderators are very nice, non-corrupt people. But the system just isn't worth it when you have even a few dozen who abuse their powers on a regular basis.

Scrap it entirely. I don't care if you value justice more than your average player, you're still human and you still make mistakes like every non-Pmod player. Denying that fact is ignorance on your part. Let the developers control the justice system in their own game.


Like I said, it was only a rumor. This plan of theirs was back in 2011, but I assume it got scrapped when they started working on BotWatch.

I still do not believe that they should scrap it entirely. Player Moderators could do other things too then just being a policeforce. Besides, Jagex still checks all the mutes if they were even fair. If you think the few overpower the many, and being afraid for the few, then you are just a sheep...

Indeed I do care about justice, my justice sense is rather strongly and mistakes be made but I also have my own set of morals and values and will act accordingly. If there were no Player Moderators at all, then things would probably more rampant then they are at the moment.

Which I see as a flaw of relying on solely maxed players for important input, but hey, I guess you take what you can get.

another thing I don't get is why we look to players who don't have to actually play the game anymore as far as progression goes (in terms of increasing your means of playing the game, as opposed to just making a number larger for prestige), while most of the important updates involve progression


Hence I see a cutout job for the Player Moderators to act as a conduit between jagex and the community instead of the HLF being that.

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#33
Quyneax
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HLF is not a very good conduit between Jagex and the community, I agree, but unless Jagex starts a new private forum with targeted recruiting, HLF's the only forum with both a small enough user base (= manageable amount of posts) and enough veteran players and metagamers that Jagex actually reads. Player moderators do not necessarily understand the metagame or game design in general. In my opinion, the game mechanics/balance are what needs attention and input from players, not lore, graphics or community (obviously the community is up to the players, but there's no need to draw Jagex into that). Jagex does fine on their own when it comes to lore and graphics.
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#34
Sy_Accursed
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In many ways I feel like we could benefit from a 'HLF' that has a lower arbitrary total level related requirement BUT also considers other things.
Could sort of have a tiered entry system:
1) Given entry after a specific update (eg people who did the Nexus) and then revoked afterwards
2) On the basis of good posts at level 1 be given say 6-12 months access
3) If posts are good in level 2 you get permanent access.

A bit 'elitist' perhaps but it would ensure you develop a core group that actually plays content and gives good responses about it (and by good I don't mean positive, I mean constructive and thought out)

The trouble with HLF as it stands is, as pointed out, it only really results in high-end feedback which leaves lower content in a mess AND I feel the Jmod posts there, especially from stickies, where they are saying we ARE doing this ought to be duplicated in to a sticky in Future Updates because being hidden away in HLF it does kind of allow 'insider trading' as it were to occur due to foreknowledge of things being altered that the rest of us aren't privvy too other than rumours that some HLFers let out.

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#35
Sgt Malarkey
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This past week, in my opinion, has been a great example of why the player moderation team should be expanded.

Some of you may not have heard, but here in the UK a soldier was attacked and killed by two men claiming that they did it in the name of Allah. The amount of hatred and racism, both in game and off, that has occurred since then has been absolutely disgusting. People jumping on the bandwagon spouting fascist remarks with "facts" and "statistics" pulled out of thin air because 2 mentals killed someone. I completely understand the anger directed at these men but at an entire culture? They do not speak for their religion nor their fellow countrymen, the same way that the IRA do not speak for their religion or fellow countrymen.

World 23's GE the other night was a prime example of a situation that desperately needed a mod or two to come in, calm down the situation and mute those who continued to be racist. I have no problem with religious debates but when people have already made up their minds over a religion they don't understand and aren't willing to listen to counter-points or be respectful, then mutes need to be handed out.
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#36
Blyaunte
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Yeahhhhhh - no. They don't listen to the Player Moderators any more than they listen to the MAX players -- or any other player with a good idea or good intentions, for that matter.

I mean, really, when was the last time that Jagex “listened to the players” and then followed that up with genuinely useful content that was little more than a total FUBAR of the original issue?


http://puu.sh/32wJv.jpg

Numerous changes have actually been brought into the game on this thread and Chris L explains the reasoning behind stuff every week or two. I mean, I have very negative opinions of Jagex as a whole, but credit where credit's due.

Here's some of the stuff that he changed after listening to player feedback.

http://puu.sh/32wOi.png

So there's at least one half decent JMod :P


Is it just me or is that a pretty narrow range of improvements? Most of which seem to circulate around the Completionist Cape ... :unsure:

4 of the 18 visible before the page cuts. And do you expect people on the HLF to suggest improvements to Nexus and other low-level content?


Gee -- ya think? So, in other words, outside of a handful of individuals with max capes making whoopee about further benefits for their maxed accounts, Jagex doesn't appear to listen to the general populace? Is this what you're telling me? It appears to be what you're telling me. Am I mistaken in this concept? It doesn't appear so.

And my question remains, how many truly significant ("major") game updates in which Jagex claimed that they "listened to the players" have actually shown that they've listened, or at least understood, what "the players" wanted in the first place -- other than to appease the mighty handful of maxed players?

We asked for a update to Smithing and we got "the Artisan's boutique". We asked for an update to Construction and got, what exactly? And I've no idea who they talked to to come up with the Nexus but, jeeeeeeeez ... :blink:

... and my point is that, outside a handful of maxed players who've managed a sufficient close encounter with a Jmod sufficient times to achieve an "ostensibly thoughtful gesture", why would one suggest that the "PMod role" would function as that of a "liaison" between Jagex and the general populace?

:rolleyes:

nyuseg.png


#37
Saradomin_Mage
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Is it just me or is that a pretty narrow range of improvements? Most of which seem to circulate around the Completionist Cape ... :unsure:

Mod Chris L was heavily involved in the design for the max/completionist capes, so it's no wonder that he'd be more willing and quick to work on a piece of content much closer to his heart :P

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#38
Blyaunte
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Is it just me or is that a pretty narrow range of improvements? Most of which seem to circulate around the Completionist Cape ... :unsure:

Mod Chris L was heavily involved in the design for the max/completionist capes, so it's no wonder that he'd be more willing and quick to work on a piece of content much closer to his heart :P


Which demonstrates what, exactly? :unsure:

nyuseg.png


#39
Guest_Smelly Paws_
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I liked it when we could mute rulebreakers, but Jagex would prefer to do that themselves. :razz:

I'd think the real problem is that Jagex can't decide what to do with the role. They started it to enforce the rules, then wouldn't let them enforce the rules. Then they wanted community leaders, but stopped doing community events after like a week. But they can't give them the powers to do any of the jobs they give them because they might abuse them, but ignore the mods that abuse their powers. Now, I get the feeling tha they can't decide if they want to get rid of them or not, so they're just ignoring them.

As usual, Jagex doesn't do half the job and half-asses the rest. I like the role (And not for the status), but Jagex seems to be going out of their way to mismanage it. <_<


I don't really remember a time when the game was filled with 'good' pmods. They certainly weren't and never have been great sources of information IMO. I notice you're doing a lot of finger wagging at Jagex but perhaps the players weren't either good enough to do it, didn't understand it or wanted it for their own reasons. You may be correct in thinking it was mismanaged. Personally, I believe it was a role that should never have been created in the first place.

For the reasons mentioned on this thread, mostly by Blyaunte, I agree the post is redundant. Time to move on.

#40
Miss Lioness
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Is it just me or is that a pretty narrow range of improvements? Most of which seem to circulate around the Completionist Cape ... :unsure:

Mod Chris L was heavily involved in the design for the max/completionist capes, so it's no wonder that he'd be more willing and quick to work on a piece of content much closer to his heart :P


Next to that he has a fair part into combat stuff...

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