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Tip.It Times - 9th June 2013

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Time for a new release of the: >>>Tip.It Times!<<<

 

 

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WRITE FOR THE TIMES - SUBMIT A GUEST ARTICLE:

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[hide=Read these rules before posting in this thread]

Rampant flame wars have taken control of virtually every week's times discussion topics. The following guidelines must be followed when posting on this topic. Posts that ignore these guidelines will be removed.

 

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By keeping within these guidelines, Times discussion topics will mean more for the Panel and Administration than just a place for flame wars. Flame wars do not provide any useful feedback to the Times, which is mainly what we're aiming for with these topics: feedback.

 

This policy is effective as of now, November 17, 2010. Any posts prior to the creation of this policy may or may not be removed according to the new guidelines.

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Enjoy the articles!


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- 99 fletching | 99 thieving | 99 construction | 99 herblore | 99 smithing | 99 woodcutting -

- 99 runecrafting - 99 prayer - 125 combat - 95 farming -

- Blog - DeviantART - Book Reviews & Blog

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1st- Jagex already said that the new skills will go together like mining and smiting. Also agility gives players access to new areas and allows them to use shortcuts, along with refilling the run energy.

2nd- I like how you explained how Meg was a parody of a noob player. I didn't see that. I thought she asked those dumb question because she was a reference from "Meg" in Family Guy. Meg in the show is the seventeen year old daughter of the main character and is treated poorly (That is why you can say "Shut up, Meg." to her, a common gag in the show.)

 

w00t my first-first post!!!


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1st- Jagex already said that the new skills will go together like mining and smiting. Also agility gives players access to new areas and allows them to use shortcuts, along with refilling the run energy.

2nd- I like how you explained how Meg was a parody of a noob player. I didn't see that. I thought she asked those dumb question because she was a reference from "Meg" in Family Guy. Meg in the show is the seventeen year old daughter of the main character and is treated poorly (That is why you can say "Shut up, Meg." to her, a common gag in the show.)

 

w00t my first-first post!!!

 

1) Actually they said they won't be like that! It will have something to do with each other, just not like Mining vs Smithing.

Lemme try and find the source on that.


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Let’s not mince words. Dungeoneering isn’t a skill. It’s an abortion. And yes, I am aware at how offensive that word is, but it is the most apt description that comes to mind.

 

They had an idea for a game that they could sell over another media outlet and, when that media outlet failed, instead of tossing all that programming and development into the scrap-heap, they simply grabbed whatever remnants they could manage to scrape together and tacked it onto Runescape.

 

That is not to say that it doesn’t have its appeal. But it is to say that, had they used a little patience, imagination and foresight, they could have probably found a much better way to add the principle aspects of Dungeoneering to the main game that would have been far more inclusive, beneficial and useful to everyone.

 

Hopefully, Divination is a bona fide skill. Indications are that it’s supposed to be. So let’s hope so.


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Man, no one complained as much when Construction was released and it could only be trained in - guess what - only one location, which also happened to be an instance.

 

You also levelled up Construction and got access to resource dungeons oops I mean rooms which gave you special bonuses like boosted prayer training or free teleports.

 

I could go on and list the similarities but the last time I did that a forum mod locked my RSOF thread :mad:

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In real life MMO you don't get 99 smithing by making endless bronze daggers.

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Let’s not mince words. Dungeoneering isn’t a skill. It’s an abortion. And yes, I am aware at how offensive that word is, but it is the most apt description that comes to mind.

 

I don't agree with your choice of words. It may convey your emotional disgust and revulsion about how it was implemented, but I read nothing it in that conveys a more logical dissatisfaction, i.e., what you found wrong or incorrect about it. If you had said "It's a cluster****", I would have said, "Fair enough, they hastily crammed some leftovers from a failed project, and shoved it into the game at odd and awkward angles without any lube."

 

To say "Dungeoneering is an abortion" says to me that you were going for shock and word bomb value. It's not terribly articulate or precise, IMO. No, I would reserve "abortion" for the Squeal of Fortune, or at least "dungpile". Jagex came up with a concept, squatted down, and expelled it out. The items aren't worthless, but I find that whole wheel interface lazy, half-baked, and a stinking example of sloppy development (yes, I think it's sloppy design, sloppy code, etc.). In some ways it replaced Random Events but at least that wasn't such a farted afterthought, and the cleanup was decent (NPCs and monsters were folded nicely into various spots in the game-- Sandwich Lady at one of the Ardougne Square bakery stalls is one of my faves). Personally, I wish they'd go back to that sort of instanced implementation and shove the cosmetic items over to Solomon's, where they really belong. 'cept for that stupid Yelps hat... last person I saw wearing it looked like Willy Wonka on crack... perfect matching suit and everything.

 

Man, no one complained as much when Construction was released and it could only be trained in - guess what - only one location, which also happened to be an instance.

 

You also levelled up Construction and got access to resource dungeons oops I mean rooms which gave you special bonuses like boosted prayer training or free teleports.

 

I could go on and list the similarities but the last time I did that a forum mod locked my RSOF thread :mad:

 

Well, Player Owned Houses had been anticipated almost as long as the game had been out, i.e. this was an original Andrew Gower idea. I believe it was the extra houses in Falador were originally intended to be POHs, if I remember right... there should be some documentation of this in archives of the Rune Tips website, or something like that. Um, and from what I remember from old RS1/RSC screenshots, the skill was originally called "Carpentry" (it was gone, I think, by the time I started in 2003).

 

By the time Construction did come out, well, that was a rare time, I guess, that Jagex more or less met expectations, however much they had been building all that while. I'd also say that we still had plenty of the organization-management players at that time that ate it up, which I believe EoC has largely scared off. I mean, really now, a majority of players, especially here, talk a lot more about combat than rating banks and that old-school organization stuff.

 

 

Back on topic:

 

Yes, I'm biased, but I rather liked "Abundant Pixelated Characters"... I agree that Meg is a sly parody of the newb player in RS.

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Well, I had a long reply typed out and accidentally clicked @thejollyroger's name instead of highlighting it. So, here goes again.

 

I used to think dungeoneering was more of a minigame also. However, that was when I first started and had no idea of the infinite number of things to learn about the skill. The more you realize how many ways there are to maximize XP rates and speed up floors, the more you realize that it is indeed a skill.

 

Let's look at some other skills. Woodcutting - I click a tree once and watch my pixel swing an axe for 5 minutes randomly getting logs based on my current level and which hatchet I'm wielding. Fishing - I click once on a fishing spot and watch as my inventory fills up with shark. Thieving - I spam click a farmer or stall. My XP rates are decided by my current level and randomly generated numbers - not my skill.

 

You're now 99 Fishing. How much better are you personally at fishing? Do you know all the ins-and-outs of catching shark? Now that... [sarcasm]That must take a lot of skill[/sarcasm]! The only thing that changes as you level is the fish you can catch and the speed at which you catch shittier fish.

 

Now let's look at dungeoneering. I start out as a noob. I know nothing of the skill. I get shitty XP rates because I know nothing about what I'm doing. Time goes on, I begin to level, to get the hang of the puzzle rooms, of clearing GDs, of the strategies for bosses and how to properly use prestige. I am personally becoming better at dungeoneering. My XP rates aren't a result of some randomly generated number based off of my level. No, my XP rates are a direct result of my personal skill in dungeoneering.

 

People who view dungeoneering as not being a skill are most likely the ones who use it to cut every tree, fish and cook, and get combat XP from clearing rooms. You're dungeoneering to train, you guessed it, dungeoneering! Fast floors and maximizing knowledge and skill of puzzles, bosses, and pathing will result in fastest XP rates. Choosing not to do this, and cutting each tree, clearing statue rooms (Lol), etc, is like choosing to cut oaks to 99 Woodcutting.

 

Dungeoneering is more of a skill then any other "skill" in RuneScape. It's the only skill that you actually become skilled at (most of us) as you progress, resulting in faster XP/rewards. It's the only skill that you learn more as you go. How much did you learn on your way to 99 Fishing? All the secrets to catching fast shark? Can you tell me, seriously (players who view dungeoneering as not being a skill)...

 

What side does the correct Pond Skater always spawn on?

What's the fastest method to do portals?

Maximum number of fish needed for a fish ferret? Which direction will that ferret walk first?

Using the picture below, pretend the ferret spawned on the top-right. How many fish will it take:

 

3dVau.png

 

When is a hunting room 1-shot? Where do you place the traps if it's not?

How do you 3-man a 5-man levers?

How can you kill Blink by taking little to no damage?

What does putting the barrel on the pressure pad actually do?

How can I do books flawlessly?

What can I do if I haven't got the level for an Enigmatic Hoardstalker?

What's the pattern for vines? Where do I go first? What's the rotation ratio for the big/small plants?

Do I have to operate the winch in a winch room to extend the bridge?

What's the fastest method across pillars?

When do I activate the lights in the light puzzle to guarantee they synchronize without using pressure plates?

Fastest way to do tiles (forcing or not)?

Which way should the GT go:

 

eastorwest.png

 

I'm 99 Agility. I opened a door and got 385 Agility XP. Is there any possibility that this will eventually lead to the boss?

Which side of a monolith should you never stand on? Why?

Why is it a bad idea to activate more then one crystal at a time fighting the Runebound Behemoth?

Do the color of the eyes on the Shadow-forger Ihlakhizan actually reflect weakness?

How do I harpoon a shark?

How do I pick-pocket a farmer?

 

Using your personal skill and knowledge of dungeoneering (not the Tip.It guide - as I personally added most of the answers there), try those.

 

It's just not what the community was used to.

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That seems to be the reason it's so divisive, actually. A lot of players got into the game because of the casual click-and-wait/social gameplay, which this skill isn't. It's the same reason there was such a big outcry over EoC, except DG is considerably harder to get into: You can easily get a working knowledge of combat yourself, but you're going to need a good teacher for DG and those aren't exactly common (And the bad ones can, and have, turned players away from the entire efficiency metagame), and that's assuming you're the kind of player that didn't hate it because of a terrible public team (The kind that a completely new player would go for, simply because they're right there).

 

I love the skill (unlike the rest of the EP), it just couldn't be less accessible if it tried.

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Dungeoneering is by far my favourite skill, but I still partly agree with the ones saying it's more like a minigame. The main reason to this is the exact arguments that you use, Stev. How good you are at dungeoneering isn't just something your character is, but how much you - the player have trained it. No other skills are like this in this scale, unless you count monster hunting and pking as skilling, which I've seldom heard.

 

Minigames on the other hand is much more effected by player skill - look at Castle wars, at least back when I used to play it, a level 50 could change the course of a game by being a good flag-holder - or look at Trouble brewing, although dead now, needed a great lot of player skill to play competively.

 

Dungeoneering is more complex than minigames as well though, but if put on a line, I'd say it goes in a line from "old-school skills" -> mini-games -> dungeoneering, keeping it far from the rest of the skills.

 

All these aspects, which you also looked at is something that in my eyes makes it quite similar to a minigame. This does not mean, however, that I don't think it should be a skill. I think this was a good direction to go for some skills, because it blew life into dungeoneering as an activity that a simple "mini-games hiscore" could not have done.

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Dungeoneering is a skill. It is also like a minigame. There are plenty of minigames that could be skills, so dg being like a minigame is entirely irrelevant.

 

23 skills have such small iterations that it takes very little time to be able to perform those iterations perfectly and effortlessly. Probably after a few tens of thousands of xp. Slayer takes longer before you realize that it is just repeating the same thing over and over again and it probably takes people at least around 2M xp before they can slay perfectly. With dungeoneering each iteration takes even longer, and it is a credit to the skill that many players (including myself) would reach 200M xp in it without being able to do it perfectly. But with enough experience you would be able to make decisions in dg perfectly.

 

I think the reason that many people dislike dungeoneering (or at least the reason I disliked it at first) was that there was a very large learning curve to be able to dg competently, never mind perfectly, in comparison to other skills.

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Asmodean <3

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