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Jagex's chatwatch program automuting private messages/etc

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182 replies to this topic

#21
Mr_Muto
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I'm not too fussed with it because it's always been a rule, and after playing for so long you just learn to abide by it. And as other have said, it's going to work eventually for only seriously offensive language after they work out the kinks. Like it was stated before, it was just Jagex's inability to monitor players effectively and actually enforce it.

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#22
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I just wonder how strict it is? I say [bleep] and shit, etc, all the time in cc and have not had an issue.

And to people saying "it's always been a rule, get over it". well when jagex stopped auto filtering words like [bleep], I considered that a change of the no cursing rule. Basically, no it's not always been a rule. Seeing as they do have the ability to censor these words, I see it as very contradictory for them to straight up mute you for this.

But I am still a bit confused. Like I said, I curse all the time in cc etc and have not had an issue.

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#23
Aiel
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I also disagree with the view that it's "none of their business" - it's their game on their servers which we have access to after agreeing to their T&Cs which include following their rules. They have EVERY right to do whatever they like to any of our chat, be that monitoring or enforcing rules.

so by that logic it's acceptable for the government to censor what I say to other people via text message? It's not (or at least shouldn't be) jagex's responsibility to determine what I find offensive. They gave me the tools to block what I find offensive, it's my responsibility to use them. Should this auto-muting be in place in public chat? absolutely. Private/cc/fc? not so much.

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#24
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Time to make a bunch of new accounts and spam pm someone asking how their bots are doing.

"Hey how's the botting going?"
"Hey how much xp did you bot today?"
"Hey are you there or are you botting?"

Let's see if we can't get some enemies banned. Lord knows the RS community is full of people petty enough to do it.

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#25
strilmus
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while i do find that certain things ain't exactly what you'd call "healthy" as far as considering the kinds of things you'd be looking at under the "beyond random cussing" category, the way they're doing it seems more irresponsible than the activity they set out to remove in the first place

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#26
Yoko Kurama
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Isn't filter mode and unfilter mode still here? I haven't been playing lately, but I'm sure that's still the case (correct me if I am mistaken). What's the point of allowing filters/unfilters if this will get you an automatic mute?

Also, obviously this is complete nonsense which seeks to for some inexplicable reason to destroy harmless and private fun between friends. I mean is it not enough that if your friends are upset they retain the option to report you? Why add this to the picture?

Also, their excuse of "Well, just because we didn't address it for like 10 [bleep]ing years, just means we were busy, not that we had forgotten about it" is pathetic. No. If you didn't do it for years, then it obviously wasn't on your mind or a priority. To suggest that the rule has always existed and we were all "rulebreakers" is basically a lazy retcon. Rules are based on enforcement, understanding and precedent. That you didn't do anything or make any expectation or understanding known to the public which might have suggested that you don't approve of swearing amongst friends means that you didn't care. Don't pretend now that you cared all these years and were just "extremely busy". Bullshit.

It is said that idle minds are the devil's workshop. This has certainly been true of this company, and it may as well be their anthem. They have a special talent for 'fixing' things which are not broken. Unsurprisingly they found the time to do it this month of all times when they had announced a slightly less demanding update schedule. They got a little bit of time and were off breaking things again for shits and giggles. Even more egregious that they did not see fit to mention this on the front pages. Keeping in line with their second most vaunted principle: let's change laws behind everyone's backs and not announce them so we can dole out punishments sadistically on people who did not know.

Just pathetic.

#27
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Big Brother is watching you...

I am quite concerned about Jagex wiretapping our private messages, and enforcing their rules based on what we say. While I can understand their viewpoint about the rules on offensive language (on a few different levels), I find their measures rather illogical. These are 'private' to begin with, as long as recipient do not find content offensive, and that both parties keep conversation strictly private there shouldn't be any problem. One could possibly draw a parallel from this to the case of text messaging/phone calls - supposedly strictly private, but who knows, telco might send your details to the govt and you might just get 'muted'. (it resonates in my mind because of the PRISM scandal...) My point is that Jagex have no particular reason to be concerned about what people say in private messages (asides from silencing critics and preventing organised demonstrations in w66); if they don't know what is being said under what context and what parties are involved, then what are they trying to achieve? Keep calm, Jagex.

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#28
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I also disagree with the view that it's "none of their business" - it's their game on their servers which we have access to after agreeing to their T&Cs which include following their rules. They have EVERY right to do whatever they like to any of our chat, be that monitoring or enforcing rules.

so by that logic it's acceptable for the government to censor what I say to other people via text message? It's not (or at least shouldn't be) jagex's responsibility to determine what I find offensive. They gave me the tools to block what I find offensive, it's my responsibility to use them. Should this auto-muting be in place in public chat? absolutely. Private/cc/fc? not so much.


By my logic that is not true at all.

Jagex is a private company offering a service which we partake in.
Government firstly, does not have direct ownership of communication networks and secondly does not have the right too unless it is written in to law and to try and do so would raise issues of free speech and human rights as those communications are part of the public domain.

Two entirely different concepts.

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#29
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#30
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Government firstly, does not have direct ownership of communication networks and secondly does not have the right too unless it is written in to law and to try and do so would raise issues of free speech and human rights as those communications are part of the public domain.

Erm... Royal Mail is government-owned, and I see no issues around "freedom of speech". Before you raise the "private sector" card, a lot of them do their business through Royal Mail.

#31
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no [bleep]ing way........ hehehe, will i get muted now? :shock:

#32
Sy_Accursed
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Government firstly, does not have direct ownership of communication networks and secondly does not have the right too unless it is written in to law and to try and do so would raise issues of free speech and human rights as those communications are part of the public domain.

Erm... Royal Mail is government-owned, and I see no issues around "freedom of speech". Before you raise the "private sector" card, a lot of them do their business through Royal Mail.


If you'd paid attention he specified texting.
If a Government wanted to impose censorship on the mail system it owns we would simply go elsewhere, we are not obliged to use it. And it would raise my secondary point of trying to legalise such measures would meet great issues in freedom of speech/expression and human rights activism in the first place.

But this side tangent is entirely irrelevant to the main topic of this thread. I was only making the point the logic of my initial point, that Jagex has every right to enforce their rules as they wish and any chat within their game is their business, does not logically make government snooping ok. They are different ball games entirely to do with what is and is not acceptable.

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#33
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Aiel's point was less about public ownership of communication (which does happen, contrary to your misguided insistence that it does not) and more about self-responsibility. In other words, if I find something offensive, there's an ignore list, there's a report button, there's a chat filter... it doesn't require a third party holding my hand to determine what I find offensive, if indeed, I even find it offensive in the first place (re: Leik's post).

Fine, they have every right to do whatever they want in terms of censorship, but it doesn't make any practical or pragmatic sense to do so, and there's easily an argument to suggest it's a collective responsibility of everyone to promote respectful behaviour and shun abusive behaviour, rather than being solely the responsibility of Jagex.

#34
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That's a valid opinion, but that is not what I was commenting on or retorting too.

I was only defending the point that it is ludicrous to suggest my logic of Jagex owns it and we accept their T&Cs and rules and therefore they can enforce them how they see fit extends to make it also ok for governments to censor and stifle general communication at large. Because they are in no way the same context or the same ramifications to it.

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#35
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I'm afraid I have to agree with most of the negative feedback regarding this update. Auto-muting in public chat, which anyone can see, yes. In Friends Chats, which are semi-public (usually anyone can join or enter), okay. Clan chats, for which people must be invited into to join, no. While I personally do not, and do not allow offensive language in my clan chat, many do, and that is their right. If they don't like it, the higher-ranking players take action, or even the leader. In private messages? God no. That stuff is private for a reason. You're talking to your friends, and only that specific person can see it. While I don't use profanity, its private messaging. Private for a reason. While I 100% support auto-muting across all chats if people advert illegal sites, botting, or serious rule-breaking, saying a cuss word and getting a mute is just ridiculous. Especially if there's little to no explanation as to why you were muted offered.

The chat system was already too strict, randomly putting stars in messages of people with filter off if they say a long sentence with commas in it, and now this... I agree, most people are making this out into a bigger deal then it is, but it is pretty unreasonable on their part. All its going to do is drive people away from the game into other ways of communicating with each other (messengers, skype, etc).

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#36
Umdlye
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The automute system for offensive language has now been disabled.

I guess it's because of the number of people complaining of "false" mutes... of course everyone is going to say they are falsely muted if the mute is labeled incorrectly and with no visible evidence. Someone didn't really think this one through...

#37
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Meanwhile at the NSA.........................................................................


am I the only one spotting similarities?
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#38
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Big Brother is watching you...

I am quite concerned about Jagex wiretapping our private messages, and enforcing their rules based on what we say. While I can understand their viewpoint about the rules on offensive language (on a few different levels), I find their measures rather illogical. These are 'private' to begin with, as long as recipient do not find content offensive, and that both parties keep conversation strictly private there shouldn't be any problem. One could possibly draw a parallel from this to the case of text messaging/phone calls - supposedly strictly private, but who knows, telco might send your details to the govt and you might just get 'muted'. (it resonates in my mind because of the PRISM scandal...) My point is that Jagex have no particular reason to be concerned about what people say in private messages (asides from silencing critics and preventing organised demonstrations in w66); if they don't know what is being said under what context and what parties are involved, then what are they trying to achieve? Keep calm, Jagex.

Meanwhile at the NSA.........................................................................


am I the only one spotting similarities?


i think the timing of this chatwatch programme is quite nice

'Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time.' T.S. Eliot


#39
Yoko Kurama
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The automute system for offensive language has now been disabled.

I guess it's because of the number of people complaining of "false" mutes... of course everyone is going to say they are falsely muted if the mute is labeled incorrectly and with no visible evidence. Someone didn't really think this one through...


Meaning we can swear in our PMs again? If so, is there any J Mod confirmation? Or am I misunderstanding your post?

#40
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The automute system for offensive language has now been disabled.

I guess it's because of the number of people complaining of "false" mutes... of course everyone is going to say they are falsely muted if the mute is labeled incorrectly and with no visible evidence. Someone didn't really think this one through...


Meaning we can swear in our PMs again? If so, is there any J Mod confirmation? Or am I misunderstanding your post?

Yes - can we get a source on that?




Overall:

1. A change in policy (and yes, it is a change in policy since it's never been enforced) should be communicated before it is enforced. Otherwise, people are going to be upset and the purpose of the mute in the first place will be forgotten.

2. Jagex needs to stop focusing on after-the-fact reactions and create some modern-day intervention programs. Mutes only serve to enrage most people that either a.) don't believe their mute is warranted (especially if they receive no evidence or message from Jagex) or b.) don't give a flying flip in the first place. Perhaps if they did a better job of WARNING before muting, we would see better results. How about instead of using ChatWatch just to mute, it also popped up warnings IN GAME giving the player feedback that their language is bit over the top or is likely to offend others? Maybe mute after 3 warnings or such. I believe this feedback would do far more good to curb the actions than a flat out mute.

3. We have no idea what this system actually catches. Jagex is so secretive. They just say 'trust us, we know it works.' Then when it fails, everyone knows they messed up, but of course they would never admit it (okay, maybe 2% of the time). Again, communication. Jagex acts like it's perfect so the smallest of imperfections stick out like a sore thumb, serving as a beacon for ranters and griefers to latch onto.

TL;DR Jagex really needs to work on how they communicate their policies and CHANGES to players.

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