crazycdcm Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 So what was the explanation on page 2 for 18 people being let go and a 100% turnaround in profit?Squeell Deal and Kings Salomons Warehouse? Yes - that's got to be it, exactly - because goodness knows that there's absolutely no difference whatsoever between "correlation" and "causation" ... :rolleyes:Care to expand on that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blyaunte Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 So what was the explanation on page 2 for 18 people being let go and a 100% turnaround in profit?Squeell Deal and Kings Salomons Warehouse? Yes - that's got to be it, exactly - because goodness knows that there's absolutely no difference whatsoever between "correlation" and "causation" ... :rolleyes:Care to expand on that? Should I have included <sarcasm> tags? Or don't you really see from the financial statements as to where the losses and gains are attributed? :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quasar Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 I thought the reason for Jagex's losses in 2011 were largely unrelated to runescape and instead were because of investing in the failed transformers game? best drops (reasonably accurate/up to date): 1x Elysian Sigil (LS), 1x Arcane Sigil (cs), 4x Armadyl Hilt (solo at 100m, 100m, 50m, and 5m), 2x Saradomin Hilt (solo at 25m), 5x Draconic Visage (34m,1.2m,1.2m) and various cs/ls/ffa Nex splits. Drygore Drops: 7 Longswords, 3 Maces, 3 Rapiers, 3 Off-hand Rapiers, 5 Off-hand Maces, 3 Off-hand LongswordsROTS Shields: 12 Seismics: 16Ascension Crossbows: 6 Spider Legs: 10Countless Armadyl armour pieces, Saradomin amulets, Dragon Hatchets, and Fremenik Rings.Range~Herblore~Construction~Constitution~Defence~Farming~Magic~Attack~Prayer~Strength~Summoning~Slayer~Mining~Dungeoneering~Firemaking~Agility~Magic Mastery~Summoning Mastery~Cooking~Smithing~Fletching~Thieving~Hunter~Woodcutting~Fishing~Runecrafting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazycdcm Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Should I have included <sarcasm> tags? Or don't you really see from the financial statements as to where the losses and gains are attributed? :unsure:Really I don't see it - the statements are very vague, and as I noted before I'm no accountant - so was looking for you to back up what you'd said. One substantial gain on the previous year seems to be under the umbrella term "Game income", inclusive of microtransactions & subscriptions, hence my confusion and clawing for justification when you suggest microtransactions aren't the cause of the drastic increase in profits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonanananas Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Well, this year, they have a 600k gain instead of a 14.9 million loss under "exceptional administrative expenses", and I remember there was something about paying several million to the investors in 2011 (which I guess the exceptional administrative expenses are) but I don't quite remember the reason why they paid such a huge sum in a single year.... I also found it interesting that they laid off a quarter (!) of their staff in customer support.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blyaunte Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Should I have included <sarcasm> tags? Or don't you really see from the financial statements as to where the losses and gains are attributed? Really I don't see it - the statements are very vague, and as I noted before I'm no accountant - so was looking for you to back up what you'd said. One substantial gain on the previous year seems to be under the umbrella term "Game income", inclusive of microtransactions & subscriptions, hence my confusion and clawing for justification when you suggest microtransactions aren't the cause of the drastic increase in profits. Ok – you will note that, without specifics, the loss from 2011 relates to “exceptional administrative expenses” costs which appear to have been written off for the fiscal period ending December 31, 2011. This information can be referenced under note #3 commencing on page 16 of the financial statements. As has been pointed out before, it would appear that the corporation wrote off a huge (14M) loss (or losing venture) – more than likely some large-scale operation – in which they had invested a very large amount of time and money (i.e. “exceptional administrative expenses”), but no actual physical assets were involved. Someone mentioned that this may have been the Transformers project, but this could also be part and parcel of the other aspects of Jagex's operations. What was the "Space Game" they had been developing that never got off the table? I don't recall, but that may also be a contributing factor here. It is also important to note here that, the fiscal period ending December 31, 2011, is only a 9-month period (commencing, it would appear, as of April 1, 2011) and would therefore not include, for whatever reason, the influx of “game income” from subscriptions which would have occurred when they brought back the Wilderness and Free Trade on or about February 1, 2011. I cannot be sure how much more this would have increased their bottom-line for the 12-month period ending December 31, 2011, but one could probably look into it. As such, you’re seeing what appears to be roughly an average of approximately 800K increase in monthly earnings over the comparative fiscal periods, however, you’re not seeing the entirety of what the corporation earned, or may have earned, for the 12-month period ending December 31, 2011. The employee related issue is further clarified under note #4 commencing on page 17. It is interesting to note that, despite the fact that they employed 18 fewer employees for the fiscal period ending December 31, 2012, they actually paid more in terms of employee wages and benefits during that fiscal time period than they had paid in the previous fiscal period – not surprising given the 3-month differential, but nonetheless significant. Basically, the point is that previous comments made totally disregard the other various aspects which could affect these numbers. To simply state that microtransactions and a shuffle of employees “caused” such a big increase in the annual income of Jagex is entirely, if not deliberately, ingenuous, and aimed at creating an argument from a non sequitur. There’s a lot more in play here than just that … Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jebrim Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 http://www.reddit.co...first_overseas/http://www.ft.com/cm...l#axzz2X4AKUCur Although Jagex’s games are free to play online, about a fifth of its customers pay for premium membership. As a result, Jagex’s revenues were £53m in 2012, up from £32.9m in the nine months to the end of 2011, generating a pre-tax profit of £9.7m and a £10.9m increase in its cash holdings to £21.8m. North America accounts for about two-thirds of those playing Jagex games, while a quarter are in the UK. Most of the remaining 10 per cent is split between other EU countries and Australia. This is weird because I'd say if you polled people with access to HLF, you'd get a majority are European. Most of the Americans are total noobs or botters it seems. Agilitizing my way to 1,000,000,000xp!Follow my progress on my Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/The1Jebrim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazycdcm Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Wow, accidentally lost my reply. How irritating, now I shall try to recall it.. Thanks for clarifying those points. I still maintain that though not the sole cause, microtransactions played a significant role in the profitability of the company. I had noticed the discrepancy between the time periods. Is there an innocent reason for this to be so? It's interesting the point about employees. The average cost of an employee to Jagex in the 9 month period was £3442/employee/month. Raising in the 12 month period to £3831/employee/month. For anyone wondering, £129 of that difference represents the averaged salary-rise/employee/month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonanananas Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Here is the 2011 report which details the exceptional items if anyone is interested: http://skillers-inc.com/jagex.pdf Here are the interesting parts as a picture (couldn't quickly figure out how to get the text from the pdf lol) None of the exceptional items are directly related to game development. Also, yes microtransactions surely make up part of the profit. Afaik, there haven't been huge increases in membership numbers (right? or am I talking bull?) so the increase in game income should be largely microtransactions. If we assume membership revenue was exactly the same, microtransactions would roughly make up 12 million. However, I'd think there have been increases in subscription revenue, both from Runescape and the newly launched games. Not in the mood to look up any numbers though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiel Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 http://www.forbes.co...rmers-universe/ We introduced micro payments into Runescape a year ago and that’s been well received by the investors. :shock:ftfy DK drops (solo/LS): 66 hatchets, 14 archer rings, 13 berserker rings, 17 warrior rings, 12 seerculls, 13 mud staves, 7 seers ringsQBD drops: 1 kite, 2 visages, 4 dragonbone kits, 3 effigies, lots of crossbow partsCR vs. CLS threads always turn into discussions about penis size....It's not called a Compensation Longsword for nothing.I've sent a 12k combat mission to have Aiel assassinated (poor bastard isn't even Pincers-tier difficulty). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V O R K Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Investors... not consumers. Ofcourse they are happy :') Sway all day, Butterfly flaps all the way! ✿ ♥‿♥) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blyaunte Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 http://www.forbes.co...rmers-universe/ We introduced micro payments into Runescape a year ago and that’s been well received by the investors. :shock:ftfyOoh – I missed this article when it was originally posted … Wait – where the hell does this image posted on Forbes come from? :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estoc Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 http://www.forbes.co...rmers-universe/ We introduced micro payments into Runescape a year ago and that’s been well received by the investors. :shock:ftfyOoh – I missed this article when it was originally posted … http://b-i.forbesimg...e35-300x160.jpg [image display blocked; image is linked instead.]Wait – where the hell does this image posted on Forbes come from? :huh: It's the Wizard Tower. Another strategy Jagex has employed with its games from the early days is utilizing the cloud – before the cloud became a mainstream way for games to be distributed. The company has been doing virtualization in the cloud for over a decade. Jagex used the cloud before it was cool. From the empty days of hope, deny the darknessFollow my voice, we'll run far away from hereIf only to hide, to escape this lifeAnd live forever, forever in the sun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blyaunte Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 http://www.forbes.co...rmers-universe/ We introduced micro payments into Runescape a year ago and that’s been well received by the investors. :shock:ftfyOoh – I missed this article when it was originally posted … http://b-i.forbesimg...e35-300x160.jpg [image display blocked; image is linked instead.]Wait – where the hell does this image posted on Forbes come from? :huh: It's the Wizard Tower. It is? Wow – it’s amazing how much you miss in the fog … :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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