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Vorago Teaser - June 24th


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#101
crazycdcm
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crazycdcm

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Maybe he'll come breaking out of the stone for the fight? Or we need a group of people mining away at him to fight him? :P.

That sounds feasible actually, and ties in nicely with the recent toolbelt upgrades...

#102
HunterDexter
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Or mid-battle he could go back into the stones, spawning somewhere else in a massive dungeon.

#103
crazycdcm
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Or mid-battle he could go back into the stones, spawning somewhere else in a massive dungeon.

That mechanic was so much fun with the giant mole
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#104
HunterDexter
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That was exactly the point.

#105
strilmus
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i wish they'd make the lootbox from qbd in other bosses so that people who were, shall we say, sacrificed at the last moment might be able to pick up what they deserve

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#106
muggiwhplar
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Only people with gilded d picks are allowed in my group. Trying to keep things fancy

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#107
PolarBearBlue
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Only people with gilded d picks are allowed in my group. Trying to keep things fancy


Are you really gonna send me back to LFM just so I can be part of the cool kids? -.-
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#108
aerendil
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Only people with gilded d picks are allowed in my group. Trying to keep things fancy


Are you really gonna send me back to LFM just so I can be part of the cool kids? -.-


Dont worry mate, I can gild your pickaxe for free... just hand it here and it won't take a second!
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#109
Leon S
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A couple of things they can do to ensure the boss can only be killed by a group, and not by 2 - 3 players after a couple of weeks:

- Give the boss a Berserk timer. What this means is that, if a boss isn't killed within, say, 5 minutes, the boss will go Berserk, drastically increasing its damage, basically one hitting players.

- Balance the boss' health at how much damage a group of players can do within a set amount of time. An example:

Let's say the boss is designed to be killed by at least 10 players with T80 equipment. Players with said equipment will deal... 1,000 DPS. The boss has a Berserk timer of 5 minutes.

Over the course of 5 minutes, the players will deal 3M damage. So to prevent the boss from being killed by only 2 - 3 players, or by a group of players with below T80 equipment, they could give the boss roughly 3M HP, with a Berserk timer of 5 minutes.

This is just a rough example, of course.

#110
pulli23
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Give the boss a Berserk timer. What this means is that, if a boss isn't killed within, say, 5 minutes, the boss will go Berserk, drastically increasing its damage, basically one hitting players.


This is one of the worst mechanics for a boss. I take another game as example here, where monster hunting has a much more prominent role and has thus become much more matured, - diablo 3 -. Bosses used to have a rage timer there, after which they damaged 3-4 times as much. This has consistently been reduced, the timer got much longer and the damage reduced by a lot; thanks to player demand. It is a feat if you defeat certain difficult bosses, and it feels really like cheating when you are almost near a victory and then suddenly the boss "cheats".

Beserk timers and damage will always feel like arbitrary controll methods, and it will never be fun when you fall victim, only leading to frustration. If soloing is not wanted simply make the mechanics more difficult: ie the example that attacking from several sides at once deals more damage. Or maybe add more importance to roles (with new combat mechanics they could also make even more skills to deriviate between weaponstyles & playstyles/roles), while roles have been mostly absent in runescape - they do add to the feeling that you must help each other to balance everything out.

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and there was no one left to speak out for me.


#111
iBe
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Give the boss a Berserk timer. What this means is that, if a boss isn't killed within, say, 5 minutes, the boss will go Berserk, drastically increasing its damage, basically one hitting players.


This is one of the worst mechanics for a boss. I take another game as example here, where monster hunting has a much more prominent role and has thus become much more matured, - diablo 3 -. Bosses used to have a rage timer there, after which they damaged 3-4 times as much. This has consistently been reduced, the timer got much longer and the damage reduced by a lot; thanks to player demand. It is a feat if you defeat certain difficult bosses, and it feels really like cheating when you are almost near a victory and then suddenly the boss "cheats".

Beserk timers and damage will always feel like arbitrary controll methods, and it will never be fun when you fall victim, only leading to frustration. If soloing is not wanted simply make the mechanics more difficult: ie the example that attacking from several sides at once deals more damage. Or maybe add more importance to roles (with new combat mechanics they could also make even more skills to deriviate between weaponstyles & playstyles/roles), while roles have been mostly absent in runescape - they do add to the feeling that you must help each other to balance everything out.


I agree with this. Imagine you and your friends sitting there spamming abilities and eating rocktails for 5 mins, *Rage Mode Activate*, you all instantly die. No thanks.

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#112
Estoc
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Why does every boss have to be unsoloable? Can't we just have one that is fun?


A couple of things they can do to ensure the boss can only be killed by a group, and not by 2 - 3 players after a couple of weeks:

- Give the boss a Berserk timer. What this means is that, if a boss isn't killed within, say, 5 minutes, the boss will go Berserk, drastically increasing its damage, basically one hitting players.

- Balance the boss' health at how much damage a group of players can do within a set amount of time. An example:

Let's say the boss is designed to be killed by at least 10 players with T80 equipment. Players with said equipment will deal... 1,000 DPS. The boss has a Berserk timer of 5 minutes.

Over the course of 5 minutes, the players will deal 3M damage. So to prevent the boss from being killed by only 2 - 3 players, or by a group of players with below T80 equipment, they could give the boss roughly 3M HP, with a Berserk timer of 5 minutes.

This is just a rough example, of course.


Why not just have an RNG roll to see if you can enter the boss room for the next 5 minutes? Would serve the same purpose and spare you the wasted time.
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#113
Th e Doctor
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I'm a fan of the idea that every boss should be soloable given that you are skilled enough and you have the same tier equipment as the boss. KK is tier 8.5 and should be soloable in tier 8.5 equipment. We have as high of stats as him bar HP, we've been given a portion of Guthix's power and our equipment for weapons at least is higher than level than him. Should it be hard? Yes, should it be possible? Also yes.

I'm also a fan of enrage timers. I raided end game WoW all the way through WotLK and enrage timers force you to be good at your role, if too many people derp you won't get the kill in time and you die.

Diablo 3 just had terribly implemented enrage timers. A well designed enrage timer will never be an issue for teams who are properly geared and are skilled in their roles. Use lower tier equipment and screw up a few times and you won't succeed.

Also nothing I've done for bossing in Runescape has come anywhere close to the feeling that you get when you get the boss kill with less than 10 seconds on the enrage timer or in extreme cases (happened to me twice) you manage to finish off the last bit of HP after the timer has gone off and half your team has dropped. People will complain at first but it can be done right and it can add an element of enjoyment.


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#114
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Perhaps have the boss despawn or have its defense raised very high if there are less than X people in the room?

If it is internded to be killed by 8 people, once there are 7 people there, you need to hold out for your 8th to get back or it will take much much longer to kill.

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#115
pulli23
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can add an element of enjoyment.


How? Adding the pressure of time? There is already a "reward" for being faster: you get more kills / second. Together with the limit of supplies that makes bossing have already a time-cap: if you take too long because of lacking equipment it is better to do something else. However if someone really likes to take his time and just wishes to finish it he should be able to.

Now I do not think bosses should always be soloable: that simply removes a lot of teamwork & mechanics potential just to ensure a boss can be soloed. Working together is fun, that's why we come together in an online game. However people should also feel rewarded for actually working together; and in that sense a boss should require teamwork. Sure you could make teamwork become more efficient: but when you loose the requirement for soloable bosses you can add so many more mechanics and you can add so much more fun.

But once again: I am completely against "hard" numbers that prevent some way of killing. Rather it should be soft numbers OR -better yet- fighting mechanics.

First they came to fishing
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't fishing

Then they came to the yews
and I didn't speak out because I didn't cut yews

Then they came for the ores
and I didn't speak out because I didn't collect ores

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.


#116
Th e Doctor
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can add an element of enjoyment.


How? Adding the pressure of time? There is already a "reward" for being faster: you get more kills / second. Together with the limit of supplies that makes bossing have already a time-cap: if you take too long because of lacking equipment it is better to do something else. However if someone really likes to take his time and just wishes to finish it he should be able to.


Now I do not think bosses should always be soloable: that simply removes a lot of teamwork & mechanics potential just to ensure a boss can be soloed. Working together is fun, that's why we come together in an online game. However people should also feel rewarded for actually working together; and in that sense a boss should require teamwork. Sure you could make teamwork become more efficient: but when you loose the requirement for soloable bosses you can add so many more mechanics and you can add so much more fun.

But once again: I am completely against "hard" numbers that prevent some way of killing. Rather it should be soft numbers OR -better yet- fighting mechanics.


If you've come up against an enrage timer and barely scraped by in other games you would understand what I mean by an element of enjoyment. People will kill it for the enjoyment of the challenge in addition to the cash.

Of course I also think the drop system for bosses should be completely different. My personal preference is that everyone who contributes to the kill gets a 100% drop which is untradeable that you use to make untradeable armor/weapons. In addition everyone gets a "common" drop of something tradeable such as sharks, prayer potions, seeds, etc that you can use yourself or sell for modest profit. The third is that everyone has a % chance of receiving a rare drop which increases to a cap based on how many players are in the party so that you have a better shot at rare loot if you party up.


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#117
Estoc
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The third is that everyone has a % chance of receiving a rare drop which increases to a cap based on how many players are in the party so that you have a better shot at rare loot if you party up.


Wouldn't that just end up with having a full fc with 100 people as you would gain a better drop rate and faster kills, in addition to the current downside of having smaller shares being gone? They would end up setting an upper limit on the number of players rather than a lower one.

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#118
Th e Doctor
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The third is that everyone has a % chance of receiving a rare drop which increases to a cap based on how many players are in the party so that you have a better shot at rare loot if you party up.


Wouldn't that just end up with having a full fc with 100 people as you would gain a better drop rate and faster kills, in addition to the current downside of having smaller shares being gone? They would end up setting an upper limit on the number of players rather than a lower one.


Cap it out at 5, 6, or 8 people (however many you want). I.e. having more than 5 people (if that's the cap) does not provide a further boost to your % chance of getting the rare drop. You would always want at least that many people then (takes away the want for duo/solo if that's the goal that they have), and having more people means faster kills so more chances total at the loot.


Armadyl Drops : 4 Hilts; 3 Chestplates; 2 Chainskirts; 1 Helmet; 1 Buckler; 2 Shard 1; 2 Shard 2; 1 Shard 3

Nex : 1 Zaryte Bow

Kalphite King : 1 Drygore Rapier ; 1 Drygore Longsword : 1 Drygore Offhand Rapier : 1 Drygore Offhand Longsword


#119
Miss Lioness
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The third is that everyone has a % chance of receiving a rare drop which increases to a cap based on how many players are in the party so that you have a better shot at rare loot if you party up.


Wouldn't that just end up with having a full fc with 100 people as you would gain a better drop rate and faster kills, in addition to the current downside of having smaller shares being gone? They would end up setting an upper limit on the number of players rather than a lower one.


Cap it out at 5, 6, or 8 people (however many you want). I.e. having more than 5 people (if that's the cap) does not provide a further boost to your % chance of getting the rare drop. You would always want at least that many people then (takes away the want for duo/solo if that's the goal that they have), and having more people means faster kills so more chances total at the loot.

More people is also more people to share the loot with is also less lewts for ya =D!

There has to be a trade-off!

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#120
Quyneax
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I don't like enrage timers that simply double damage after 5 minutes or something crude like that. A system that's more like Bal'lak or Guthan/Dharok is better imo. It should be that it is extremely inefficient to take too long, but not impossible. That also allows lower levels to get to know the boss a bit.
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