Swing Doom Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Perhaps some of you can help me with a dilemma I am having. As I was playing today, I thought about how skills seem to be useless. For example: runecrafting. Let's say I want to craft some air runes. If I were to purchase rune essence and craft it into air runes, I would spend more money than I would have just purchasing the air runes. While this may not be the case for more expensive runes such as law runes, I could make more money in another method and then probably purchase more law runes than I could make in the time it took me to make that money. So can someone tell me: Is RuneScape really just all about the skill cape? Is there really a point to having high stats other than being on the high scores? If there's something I'm missing here please point it out to me. This really stunts my motivation and I am thinking of leaving the game for good. Many thanks. -Ethan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ammako Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 This is unfortunately true for too many skills. :/They could make Runecrafting useful by moving all the craftable Magic gear from Crafting to Runecrafting; Requiring Runecrafting levels to make magic gear. Ranged = CraftingMagic = RunecraftingMelee = Smithing I hope that gets implemented someday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swing Doom Posted July 1, 2013 Author Share Posted July 1, 2013 Personally I'm a bit angry that Jagex is releasing all of this brand new content when so much of their existing content sucks. While I of course don't think they should completely halt the development of new content, they need to seriously fix a very large portion of what they already have. 8 -Ethan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Delu Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Yeah a lot of skills are are mostly useless, but jagex is moving in the right direction. Untradable pots, skill reqs for ports gear etc 2496 total achieved June 30, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoooooooooooooooooooo Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 go diy if you want skills to matter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swing Doom Posted July 1, 2013 Author Share Posted July 1, 2013 go diy if you want skills to matter That completely defeats the purpose of playing a multiplayer game, though. 4 -Ethan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cow Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 The skill experience itself is considered the commodity. Thats why often raw materials are higher in price than finished goods. Its not pointless to those who value it, perhaps (almost definitely) the many variations of achievement capes contributed to this, but it would have happened anyways. High untradable rewards like overloads or something similar, just adds incentive to train herblore high, makes it more expensive, and more 'pointless' in the eyes of the op. I liked rewards like this by the way, but overloads didn't fix herblore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alg Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Following from the above: whether or not you enjoy the game depends on how much that kind of game design appeals to you. I painted some stuff and put it on tumblr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwreeTak Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 On this forums many people have claimed that skillcapes broke the game. What you bring forward here is simply why they claim so. People want xp, not the items themself that are a result of the xp. At least for many of the skills this is true. Xp therefore gets more valuable. This change really started with the introduction of skill capes, even though I believe that it had already started a bit. Without skill capes we would still be in the same situation today though, I believe. The competition for xp would certainly have grown stronger over time anyway. Add me if you so wish: SwreeTak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alg Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 That brings up an interesting question, though. Would skillcapes have had that effect if the majority of skills had a purpose beyond them? 1 I painted some stuff and put it on tumblr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSDwaynee Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 If that purpose involved money, big quantities especially then maybe no, skillcapes wouldn't of had such a big effect on players mentality's & motivation. Trimmed Completionist 8th October 2014 | Check out my blog Here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swing Doom Posted July 1, 2013 Author Share Posted July 1, 2013 The way I feel is that getting the XP should unlock more things for me in game that I can actually use to make my own equipment or make equipment to sell. Otherwise the XP is meaningless to me. I'm starting to see that RuneScape is probably the wrong game for me. It's a shame, really. I would like the game pre-RWT if the finishing skills were more useful. Oh well, thanks for your opinions. -Ethan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viv Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Skills used to be more useful back when runecrafting made tons of money, before pvm, gambling, ect. Overtime thiers become much less use for skills such as smithing = less use for mining too. You don't eally need much food for combat cya fishing and cooking. SUmmoning was more useful preeoc. Slayer was more useful before eoc and before dungeoneering. dungeoneering is useful but then you get the weapons and then not as useful, but dungeoneering was more useful before eoc. fletching was useful when it was profitable. thieving was useful when it was profitable. combat skills are useful....but rs has become more gear based than level based with eoc... herb more useful pre eoc. pray more useful pre eoc agil more useful back before all the run updates What am I missing? farming? I guess u can make money at higher levels planting herbs but the best way to train is making trees construction useful for training prayer which is less useful in eoc. Haha explains why I play other games :D. The gameplay style of rs and skill training is more suited for people of habit that enjoy training skills/multitasking maxing and beating rs will take you longer than most other games. However thier are many other games that also take awhile to learn and beat that will give you the same achievment and timespan for awhile. However skilling isnt as focus intensive as say raiding in other games so if u like talking to friends in pm alot its fun :D. I have no idea what its like to start today but besides quest which have low skill requirements most skills arent really "useful". OK I remember more skills that I forgot mage: pretty awesome for killing stuff, however back in oldschool you had to train mage for teleports or have fun walking and high alcemy was a big part of scape. range:Its ok hunter:just a skill to train chins used to be an awesome range weapon also can get spikes for range pots extreme. Besides skills being useless especcially to train all the way to 99 , I enjoyed getting all 99s but 200m's are totally lame for me.There are a couple reasons to play rs. -friends, socializing-always being updated- although not always the updates you want lol....thats still a bonus.-great for the multitasker/achiever type.-quest are sometimes funny Haha this post was originally gonna say "HOW dare you call skills useless, N00b" cya and have fun whether you choose to scape or play fun steam games or rl it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenw Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 I don't think EoC has made many of the skills less used than it already once was, with exception of Herblore. Slayer was heading towards the realm of money sink anyway, just unfortunate EoC didn't actually rescue it. What you could do with magic before, none of it has changed (all updates regarding usefulness of teleport has nothing to do with EoC itself). What you could do with magic now, some of which you never even dream of Pre-EoC. Bossing in Magic was practically unheard of beyond DKs. I enjoy RS post eoc more than immediately pre-eoc, at least it is no longer a meleescape 6,924th to 30 hunting, 13,394th to 30 summoning, 52,993rd to 30 DivinationKiln Record (Post-EoC): W 25 - L 0, 14 Uncut Onyx, 8 Jad hits received (Best record: Two in the same kiln)Obby set renewed post update #2: 0QBD drops: 21 crossbow parts, 3 Visages, 1 Kites, 2 KitsMax Port Score [2205] Achieved: 27th April 2013 (World 2nd) Farmyard Rampage ranking: 12th, 50,000 Kills. Dragon Pickaxe Drops: 1 (Times after I first entered Battlefield: 2h) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggiwhplar Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Skilling started becoming pointless after skill capes. Then God Wars came out which made skilling for money obsolete when PvM blew it out of the water. Was better to just camp at GWD bosses then spend the profits on consumables rather than DIY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenw Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Skillcapes are in a unique position, in that, if it didn't start the Skilling-is-pointless phenomenon, it certainly catalysed it. But if everything else in the game progressed in exactly the same way as it does now, sans 99 or comp capes, then I don't think much would have changed beyond wardrobe and bragging rights. 6,924th to 30 hunting, 13,394th to 30 summoning, 52,993rd to 30 DivinationKiln Record (Post-EoC): W 25 - L 0, 14 Uncut Onyx, 8 Jad hits received (Best record: Two in the same kiln)Obby set renewed post update #2: 0QBD drops: 21 crossbow parts, 3 Visages, 1 Kites, 2 KitsMax Port Score [2205] Achieved: 27th April 2013 (World 2nd) Farmyard Rampage ranking: 12th, 50,000 Kills. Dragon Pickaxe Drops: 1 (Times after I first entered Battlefield: 2h) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pulli23 Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Muggiwhplar hitted the nail on its head though. Skill capes certainly contributed to the effect: however even back when skillcapes were around for a year, you saw that only the fastest skills were greatly influenced by skillcapes. Slower skills still kept being 'profitable' and a means on its own - herblore, runecrafting, slayer are prime examples. People would indeed go for a skillcape, but why three? You couldn't show off 3 at once. With GWD & constantly new features & better rewards to the combat skils it only is natural that combat became the manner to gain profit. Compare the amount of additional new content/items to combat related skills compared to skills like smithing.... Sure skills got things like being able to repair shields, however what is the most consuming job to gather those: right combat. First they came to fishingand I didn't speak out because I wasn't fishing Then they came to the yewsand I didn't speak out because I didn't cut yews Then they came for the oresand I didn't speak out because I didn't collect ores Then they came for meand there was no one left to speak out for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peronix Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Muggiwhplar hitted the nail on its head though. Skill capes certainly contributed to the effect: however even back when skillcapes were around for a year, you saw that only the fastest skills were greatly influenced by skillcapes. Slower skills still kept being 'profitable' and a means on its own - herblore, runecrafting, slayer are prime examples. People would indeed go for a skillcape, but why three? You couldn't show off 3 at once. With GWD & constantly new features & better rewards to the combat skils it only is natural that combat became the manner to gain profit. Compare the amount of additional new content/items to combat related skills compared to skills like smithing.... Sure skills got things like being able to repair shields, however what is the most consuming job to gather those: right combat.Yes, combat certainly is much more rewarding, but not just in terms of pure cash, but in terms of the very resources the other skills are meant to gather as well. I noticed while doing QBD that I am probably gathering, for example, much more rune ores and yew logs than I ever would chopping yew trees or mining rune rocks. And that's not even counting the plethora of other rewards that boss gives... why would I ever bother to use those skills anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quyneax Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 I believe plenty of skills were 'useless' even before skillcapes, so I wouldn't blame the capes. It's just a convenient 'marker' for useless skilling, but some skills were never useful (certainly not all the way to 99). Firemaking for example, or herblore pre-overloads. @Above: I think that's a major problem with skills. Most skilling rewards, rune items and resources are drops or store-buyable. 1 Supporter of Zaros | Quest Cape owner since 22 may 2010 | No skills below 99 | Total level 2595 | Completionist Cape owner since 17th June 2013 | Suggestions 99 summoning (18th June 2011, previously untrimmed) | 99 farming (14th July 2011) | 99 prayer (8th September 2011) | 99 constitution (10th September 2011) | 99 dungeoneering (15th November 2011) 99 ranged (28th November 2011) | 99 attack, 99 defence, 99 strength (11th December 2011) | 99 slayer (18th December 2011) | 99 magic (22nd December 2011) | 99 construction (16th March 2012) 99 herblore (22nd March 2012) | 99 firemaking (26th March 2012) | 99 cooking (2nd July 2012) | 99 runecrafting (12th March 2012) | 99 crafting (26th August 2012) | 99 agility (19th November 2012) 99 woodcutting (22nd November 2012) | 99 fletching (31st December 2012) | 99 thieving (3rd January 2013) | 99 hunter (11th January 2013) | 99 mining (21st January 2013) | 99 fishing (21st January 2013) 99 smithing (21st January 2013) | 120 dungeoneering (17th June 2013) | 99 divination (24th November 2013) Tormented demon drops: twenty effigies, nine pairs of claws, two dragon armour slices and one elite clue | Dagannoth king drops: two dragon hatchets, two elite clues, one archer ring and one warrior ring Glacor drops: four pairs of ragefire boots, one pair of steadfast boots, six effigies, two hundred lots of Armadyl shards, three elite clues | Nex split: Torva boots | Kalphite King split: off-hand drygore mace 30/30 Shattered Heart statues completed | 16/16 Court Cases completed | 25/25 Choc Chimp Ices delivered | 500/500 Vyrewatch burned | 584/584 tasks completed | 4000/4000 chompies hunted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pulli23 Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 @quyneax: people made some pretty penny by selling supersets.. First they came to fishingand I didn't speak out because I wasn't fishing Then they came to the yewsand I didn't speak out because I didn't cut yews Then they came for the oresand I didn't speak out because I didn't collect ores Then they came for meand there was no one left to speak out for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgehog Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Skills were doomed from the start. They aremt useless because of any individual update, but rather because of poor design. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sy_Accursed Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 I don't agree with the notion that all skilling skills are useless. Some certainly have always been rather pointless, others have simply become slightly redundant due to lack of profitability through game changes and need to be re-addressed. To give some examples:Firemaking - always been rather pointlessMining & Smithing - serve a very finite purpose, their core issue lies in the fact that their level spread renders the produce they give obsolete to most users well before they get there. A few simple adjustments and additions of new high end things could fairly easily fix things.Fishing & Cooking - May seem redundant to some who just buy all their food, but where do you think it all comes from? There aren't a huge amount of food droppers out there.Runecrafting - Had quite a large use but EoC has rendered it mostly useless, could be fixed by, as others have suggested, making it the 'magic armouring' skill much like craft > range and smith > melee. Jagex just really needs to get off their butts and do some more overhauls, most of the skills aren't too far off of being useful they just need that fresh breath of life a rethink can offer Operation Gold Sparkles :: Chompy Kills :: Full Profound :: Champions :: Barbarian Notes :: Champions Tackle Box :: MA RewardsDragonkin Journals :: Ports Stories :: Elder Chronicles :: Boss Slayer :: Penance King :: Kal'gerion Titles :: Gold Statue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pulli23 Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Firemaking - always been rather pointlessNot untill ranges were implement and they stopped giving different chance to burn. Mining & SmithingRunite should've stayed the highest.. Simple as that, and new bosses should give niche armour that is good for a specific purpose - but rune should've stayed the highest general purpose items. Anyways, monster hunting should simply be not the way to gather end game items, whoever thought that was quite simple minded with runescape. Bossing should bring items that serve as fuel for other skills, but then the skilling itself (conversion of raw products to items) should take the same efford as monster hunting (efford can quite easily in runescape be modelled by the formula "time * risk", with risk being "chancetofail * severity"). So when looking at the theoretical game design flow we can see already that skills should A) require more time. Or B) become more risky, by increasing the chance to fail & the severity of a failed operation. First they came to fishingand I didn't speak out because I wasn't fishing Then they came to the yewsand I didn't speak out because I didn't cut yews Then they came for the oresand I didn't speak out because I didn't collect ores Then they came for meand there was no one left to speak out for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum_Myr Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Rune staying the highest doesn't scale in the long term. EDIT: I would be interested in an MMO where the smithable gear actually scales over time, so that at first rune takes 99, but then later on that goes down as more people master the technique and teach it to other smithers, and then a new type of armor is invented and becomes the top tier smithable armor. That could work fairly well. Maxed since Sunday, January 9th, 2014Completionist since Wednesday, June 4th, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pulli23 Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Why does there have to be a power inflation in mmos? Why does constantly everyone wish that new armour is "better" in all senses? Instead a much more healthy and sustainable growth would be to the sides: new updates enable more ways, but not per se better ways to handle something. First they came to fishingand I didn't speak out because I wasn't fishing Then they came to the yewsand I didn't speak out because I didn't cut yews Then they came for the oresand I didn't speak out because I didn't collect ores Then they came for meand there was no one left to speak out for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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