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SwreeTak

22-Jul-2013 - RuneScape 3!

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^ We HAVE to have the everyone can do everything because that is the unique selling point of RS and always has been. They have always sold on the fact YOU decide what YOU want to be and YOU can do EVERYTHING or you can build a specialised character.

 

It'd alienate lots of the player base to move away from that concept and it'd lose a fundamental thing that makes Runescape differ from other games.

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^ We HAVE to have the everyone can do everything because that is the unique selling point of RS and always has been. They have always sold on the fact YOU decide what YOU want to be and YOU can do EVERYTHING or you can build a specialised character.

 

It'd alienate lots of the player base to move away from that concept and it'd lose a fundamental thing that makes Runescape differ from other games.

 

But why rising skill cap to 120 would mean everyone couldn't do everything? Getting 120 in a skill doesn't mean you couldn't get 100+ in others. Maybe having maxed out everything would be pretty much impossible for any "normal" player but what stops people say go for 105+ or 110+ all skills and have all around effective character? It would still give more room to someone who wants to focus on certain skills over someone else. Back in the days it used to be common to have players who focused on certain few skills and made that their "trade". High level miners mined high level ores and then sold them to people who smith them to high level armour. High level woodcutters sold logs to fletchers and so on. What's so wrong with that? Of course there still were people who wanted to be able to do it all but why does it have to be this way for everyone?

 

I for one used to be one of those "high level smithers" when 99 smithing was my first 99 skill. At the same time as I felt accomplished to have achieved that I also felt little sad that I had basically no need to go smithing again even though it still is my favourite skill. I know alot of that has to do with the fact that theres nothing really useful to smith anymore and the whole skill needs redesign, but why not make high level smithers (say 100+) much more useful to the whole community by being able to make armours that are actually good? Something that would make having high level in the skill worthwile. Then why not take the same aspect and make it work on every skill?

 

I know it is ambitious but it would give gamedesigners alot more room to play around with and alot more to wait for people who already have reached the high levels. Atleast for those who get there because they enjoy the journey and not do it just because they feel like they need to accomplish everything.


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I think it's a sign of misplaced nostalgia to want the world of 'smithers', 'crafters' and such back. That's just not going to come back. Look at 2007scape, which is now almost five months old (released February 22nd) and the highest total level is 2068/2277 and the shortest time to max is under 1k hours (according to this). Even in a 5-month old version of the game, with almost six years less power creep (notably no EoC power creep!) the hiscores will be about xp very soon, more than they are already. Do you want to go back even further? Or do you want to add 120 skills to 2007scape on a separate server, so you can have a hiscore-based competition there?

 

If you want competition to be about levels and the game about specialization forever, you have to go up to level 200 (almost 72b xp, about 3000 days at 1m xp/h, current highest alog days is about half that, current highest xp/h is >1m but very costly) or something. And even that is stupid, because it'd mean that >99.9% of the people couldn't even compete, and the game would cease to be about skill in all ways. As I said before, maxing may be accessible to many people now, and comp capes aren't uncommon, but 120 in all stats is extremely rare.

 

If you allow noobs to get decisive advantages just by grinding, you break the game. If you give people 120 magic, def and hp just for afking dags, they will have a huge advantage over the smart but time-limited player with 99s (who would totally kick the noobs ass, if they had another billion xp or so), and the 'good' players will be all about the long grind to 120.

 

=

Obviously, yes, I play this game and got a comp cape, so grinding isn't necessarily a problem. But instead of looking at increased benefits to grinding, we should look at increased benefits for skill and strategy. I don't think the kind of gamer who afks while playing [insert newest version of a better game here] or doing homework should have base stats to compete with 'real' players. And I don't want a system where new, talented players can't rise to the top because it takes thousands of hours to get decent base stats (on the other hand, if you add 120 skills without benefit, you might as well not add them imo).


Supporter of Zaros | Quest Cape owner since 22 may 2010 | No skills below 99 | Total level 2595 | Completionist Cape owner since 17th June 2013 | Suggestions

99 summoning (18th June 2011, previously untrimmed) | 99 farming (14th July 2011) | 99 prayer (8th September 2011) | 99 constitution (10th September 2011) | 99 dungeoneering (15th November 2011)

99 ranged (28th November 2011) | 99 attack, 99 defence, 99 strength (11th December 2011) | 99 slayer (18th December 2011) | 99 magic (22nd December 2011) | 99 construction (16th March 2012)

99 herblore (22nd March 2012) | 99 firemaking (26th March 2012) | 99 cooking (2nd July 2012) | 99 runecrafting (12th March 2012) | 99 crafting (26th August 2012) | 99 agility (19th November 2012)

99 woodcutting (22nd November 2012) | 99 fletching (31st December 2012) | 99 thieving (3rd January 2013) | 99 hunter (11th January 2013) | 99 mining (21st January 2013) | 99 fishing (21st January 2013)

99 smithing (21st January 2013) | 120 dungeoneering (17th June 2013) | 99 divination (24th November 2013)

Tormented demon drops: twenty effigies, nine pairs of claws, two dragon armour slices and one elite clue | Dagannoth king drops: two dragon hatchets, two elite clues, one archer ring and one warrior ring

Glacor drops: four pairs of ragefire boots, one pair of steadfast boots, six effigies, two hundred lots of Armadyl shards, three elite clues | Nex split: Torva boots | Kalphite King split: off-hand drygore mace

30/30 Shattered Heart statues completed | 16/16 Court Cases completed | 25/25 Choc Chimp Ices delivered | 500/500 Vyrewatch burned | 584/584 tasks completed | 4000/4000 chompies hunted

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I think it's a sign of misplaced nostalgia to want the world of 'smithers', 'crafters' and such back. That's just not going to come back. Look at 2007scape, which is now almost five months old (released February 22nd) and the highest total level is 2068/2277 and the shortest time to max is under 1k hours (according to this). Even in a 5-month old version of the game, with almost six years less power creep (notably no EoC power creep!) the hiscores will be about xp very soon, more than they are already. Do you want to go back even further? Or do you want to add 120 skills to 2007scape on a separate server, so you can have a hiscore-based competition there?

 

Hmm, for me the point of raising skill caps is not to generate more competition. I don't really care for competition or hiscore ranks myself, my point was to give the game longer timespan. The way from 1-99 works just fine but what makes you say it couldn't work beyond that? And about "smithers", "miners" and etc. not coming back is because there is little to no high level content that would make people want to specialise at all. Assume we would get level 100+ smithing armours or mining rocks, we would sure have plenty of high level miners and smithers with less balanced skillbase. Especially considering the time it takes to get to those levels. I didn't really mean we need to have those types of players, but they would exist if the journey would be in favour of those who like the skill but wouldn't be gamebreaking to make everyone need it.

 

Also I don't think using 07scape is good example about how it would work in the real game. In 07scape people have already once played through that era and have knowledge how certain aspects will work out, what skills are worth it to train and which way is the most efficient. If they are new additions to new game it will take time for people to try them out and figure what they want.

 

If you allow noobs to get decisive advantages just by grinding, you break the game. If you give people 120 magic, def and hp just for afking dags, they will have a huge advantage over the smart but time-limited player with 99s (who would totally kick the noobs ass, if they had another billion xp or so), and the 'good' players will be all about the long grind to 120.

 

You got a fair point in here, but let's see... Already the difference between the players who have 99 and 80 have is because of grinding. Someone with level 80 stats can't really cope with someone with level 99 stats even if they have the skills. I don't really see how this makes more difference to 120 to 99. After all fighting against other players happens on Wilderness where you can choose the levels of players you wish to fight against. If it's about not being able to get to bosses because there are too good players there, it could be easily solved with more instanced bosses. In any case, as long as the training is fun and relatively speed up at the higher levels, it won't necessarily take massive grind to reach 100+ levels. Or even if it takes, I doubt hardly every noob would grind to 120 for sake of it. And even then I don't think reaching levels like 105-110 is anything like impossible task to most players to reach (considering most of maxed players already have levelbase around there).

 

In any case, I think RuneScape is a game where grinding and dedication needs to be rewarded. This is how it used to work before and that is how the game was when it was at it's most popular stage. Those who spend more time deserve to have adventage over those who play less. Of course this could be also balanced by giving different kind of means to get XP. For example daily/weekly/monthly things that could give more xp in shorter time, so it would even out the field between those who can play less and those who can grind more, but still favoring people who grind more.

 

Obviously, yes, I play this game and got a comp cape, so grinding isn't necessarily a problem. But instead of looking at increased benefits to grinding, we should look at increased benefits for skill and strategy. I don't think the kind of gamer who afks while playing [insert newest version of a better game here] or doing homework should have base stats to compete with 'real' players. And I don't want a system where new, talented players can't rise to the top because it takes thousands of hours to get decent base stats (on the other hand, if you add 120 skills without benefit, you might as well not add them imo).

 

I agree with you that there needs to be a balance. But let's face it and admit that RuneScape has always been more about grinding to levels than actual talent. Maybe nowadays talent matters a little more with all the abilities and such in the play. Nowadays level 200 combat level player has grinded more levels than level 150 combat player and most likely is going to win in a fight. Is this unfair that someone got there because of grinding? Why would it be such big difference if level 250 combat player beat someone with 200 combat? Just because it takes too long time to grind to 250 combat? That is all relative. Besides, if the levels, abilities and such can be reasonably balanced, and the XP rates adjusted to the new milestones I don't see this as big problem as you make it sound.

 

Only real problem I see is that it would make gap between starting player and veteran player even higher than it is. But frankly it already is massive, and I don't think if it would make that much difference between the new players who already buckle up and go for the ride (even though the time it takes to reach the top is years already). I'm simply concerned that the veteran players are running out of goals to go for and will start leaving the game. I am - and I don't even have completionist or max cape yet. Simply because I don't like training every skill as much as others.


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Runescape used to have something truly amazing about it that brought millions of people to the game, and now it's gone and it's gone forever. We all want it back but it isn't going to happen.

 

Enjoy RS for what it has become, because to be perfectly honest it's still a good game in it's own right. What me and tens of thousands of other people long for is ruining what we have.

 

*climbs of high-horse*


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Far be it for me to attempt to "moderate" a thread, but isn't the whole "Skills to 120" topic a little on the +1 side of this thing?

 

And, if so, perhaps (if we don't already) we should consider the idea of starting a thread someplace where we discuss the "Skills to 120" issue and therein, perhaps attempt to provide a basis whereby we could justify the idea of moving the goal posts from 99 in all skills to 120?

 

Perhaps we should now discuss what options are available and make suggestions as to content which might allow skill levels to be increased to 120. Ya know?

 

It just seems to me that, time and again, we run into this same argument and other discussions keep getting sidetracked by this one … :huh:

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Runescape used to have something truly amazing about it that brought millions of people to the game, and now it's gone and it's gone forever. We all want it back but it isn't going to happen.

 

Enjoy RS for what it has become, because to be perfectly honest it's still a good game in it's own right. What me and tens of thousands of other people long for is ruining what we have.

 

*climbs of high-horse*

 

What and how you are saying this is suggesting as if we wanted to go backwards. No, I want the game to move forward. Give more challenges, make more content and give us a reason to train those skills we like, instead of trying to force everyone into same mould being all around maxed character with rewards like completionist and max cape. Not everyone wants to train all skills but that is the direction they are navigating us. Why are there no rewards for really dedicating alot of time to one skill? Apart having meaningless number of XP that doesn't really do anything in the game? That's not the kind of reward I'm looking for.

 

 

Far be it for me to attempt to "moderate" a thread, but isn't the whole "Skills to 120" topic a little on the +1 side of this thing?

 

And, if so, perhaps (if we don't already) we should consider the idea of starting a thread someplace where we discuss the "Skills to 120" issue and therein, perhaps attempt to provide a basis whereby we could justify the idea of moving the goal posts from 99 in all skills to 120?

 

Perhaps we should now discuss what options are available and make suggestions as to content which might allow skill levels to be increased to 120. Ya know?

 

It just seems to me that, time and again, we run into this same argument and other discussions keep getting sidetracked by this one … :huh:

 

Fair point and I would personally find a thread like this interesting.


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@Sydan

1-99 is not the same as 1-120 and 80-99 is not the same as 99-120. The time-scales are quite different. There are no rewards at 120 because this game is for all-rounders, not specialists. It can't be a game for both and the choice has been made. If there's no content to play, you quit. If you don't like the end-game content that is there for you (pvp, minigames, bossing, xp milestones, trimming), you quit. I understand that RS is difficult to quit because it's been there for so long, but in the end you have to accept you finished the game as far as you care to. It's a part of gaming that games end.

 

Sure, you can change the game so that 120 is the new 99, with proper skill balance, new content, higher xp rates. But if you do that, you might as well put everybody back ten levels and add new content from 90-99. Make everybody lose 1% of their xp every day? Reset all accounts every year? Those are even better solutions, they prolong the game's lifespan indefinitely...

 

@Blyaunte: I don't know how much there is to say about RS3... there's no news.


Supporter of Zaros | Quest Cape owner since 22 may 2010 | No skills below 99 | Total level 2595 | Completionist Cape owner since 17th June 2013 | Suggestions

99 summoning (18th June 2011, previously untrimmed) | 99 farming (14th July 2011) | 99 prayer (8th September 2011) | 99 constitution (10th September 2011) | 99 dungeoneering (15th November 2011)

99 ranged (28th November 2011) | 99 attack, 99 defence, 99 strength (11th December 2011) | 99 slayer (18th December 2011) | 99 magic (22nd December 2011) | 99 construction (16th March 2012)

99 herblore (22nd March 2012) | 99 firemaking (26th March 2012) | 99 cooking (2nd July 2012) | 99 runecrafting (12th March 2012) | 99 crafting (26th August 2012) | 99 agility (19th November 2012)

99 woodcutting (22nd November 2012) | 99 fletching (31st December 2012) | 99 thieving (3rd January 2013) | 99 hunter (11th January 2013) | 99 mining (21st January 2013) | 99 fishing (21st January 2013)

99 smithing (21st January 2013) | 120 dungeoneering (17th June 2013) | 99 divination (24th November 2013)

Tormented demon drops: twenty effigies, nine pairs of claws, two dragon armour slices and one elite clue | Dagannoth king drops: two dragon hatchets, two elite clues, one archer ring and one warrior ring

Glacor drops: four pairs of ragefire boots, one pair of steadfast boots, six effigies, two hundred lots of Armadyl shards, three elite clues | Nex split: Torva boots | Kalphite King split: off-hand drygore mace

30/30 Shattered Heart statues completed | 16/16 Court Cases completed | 25/25 Choc Chimp Ices delivered | 500/500 Vyrewatch burned | 584/584 tasks completed | 4000/4000 chompies hunted

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@Sydan

1-99 is not the same as 1-120 and 80-99 is not the same as 99-120. The time-scales are quite different. There are no rewards at 120 because this game is for all-rounders, not specialists. It can't be a game for both and the choice has been made. If there's no content to play, you quit. If you don't like the end-game content that is there for you (pvp, minigames, bossing, xp milestones, trimming), you quit. I understand that RS is difficult to quit because it's been there for so long, but in the end you have to accept you finished the game as far as you care to. It's a part of gaming that games end.

 

So what you are saying is that I shouldn't suggest or support ideas that I would find benefitting the game and make it more interesting for me? I should just give up and quit and think that I won't matter? Tell me exactly why does this game has to be only for all-rounders? Why can't all-rounders and specialist play same game? Why does players need to achieve everything? You have a completionist cape so you can probably tell me why do you have to complete everything in the game? Why would it be so hard to accept that there is something you just can't achieve but someone else might?

 

RS is different to many games because it is constantly updating and evolving. I do take breaks every now and then when I don't find the game fun anymore, but I tend to come back with a good update or two. In my opinion raising skill caps would benefit the game more than it would hurt it. And yet I haven't got a good enough explanation why it can't happen. Just saying this game is for all-arounders and players need to be able to complete everything in game doesn't really conclude in my book as good explanation.

 

I probably would never get a skill to 120 even if I could. I would probably get my butt kicked by someone with higher levels. Most likely actually. I wouldn't achieve everything for sure, good thing if I even achieve something. Someone would be better than me. So what?

 

Sure, you can change the game so that 120 is the new 99, with proper skill balance, new content, higher xp rates. But if you do that, you might as well put everybody back ten levels and add new content from 90-99. Make everybody lose 1% of their xp every day? Reset all accounts every year? Those are even better solutions, they prolong the game's lifespan indefinitely...

 

No it isn't. That is going backwards, not forwards. Technically they could be the same but going again from 90 to 99 is not the same thing as going from 99 to 120. Or even 110. Or 105 for that matter.


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A good reason why it shouldn't happen: because it wouldn't be fun. It would just be more of the same. If you stretch the game, it grows too thin. It's extremely unimaginative and boring. Maybe you like it, or the idea of it, but most people won't enjoy it. In short: I am saying that your suggesting is boring, and yes, you shouldn't suggest boring things.

 

Two kinds of games:

1) Puzzles, the kind of game that makes you think - each time it's different.

2) Achievements, the kind of game you play to comp(l)ete.

 

RS has elements of both types - type 1 is PvP, type 2 is comp caping. However RS type-2 gameplay usually has zero elements of type 1, which means it should be limited. Extending skills beyond 99 (because we have 99s, we're kinda stuck with it now) is just overdosing on grind. Again: you may enjoy it, but most people won't. If you want a game that is even grindier than RS, you should go for it, but I think RS should stay closer to mainstream grindiness.

 

That doesn't mean I don't think skill usefulness balance in RS is lousy, top-tier content is lacking, there is no incentive to use many skills past 99, xp:level balance is also lousy, grind is present in all areas of the game including pvp etc. etc.. But slapping on 120 skills is just stretching the problem, not solving it.


Supporter of Zaros | Quest Cape owner since 22 may 2010 | No skills below 99 | Total level 2595 | Completionist Cape owner since 17th June 2013 | Suggestions

99 summoning (18th June 2011, previously untrimmed) | 99 farming (14th July 2011) | 99 prayer (8th September 2011) | 99 constitution (10th September 2011) | 99 dungeoneering (15th November 2011)

99 ranged (28th November 2011) | 99 attack, 99 defence, 99 strength (11th December 2011) | 99 slayer (18th December 2011) | 99 magic (22nd December 2011) | 99 construction (16th March 2012)

99 herblore (22nd March 2012) | 99 firemaking (26th March 2012) | 99 cooking (2nd July 2012) | 99 runecrafting (12th March 2012) | 99 crafting (26th August 2012) | 99 agility (19th November 2012)

99 woodcutting (22nd November 2012) | 99 fletching (31st December 2012) | 99 thieving (3rd January 2013) | 99 hunter (11th January 2013) | 99 mining (21st January 2013) | 99 fishing (21st January 2013)

99 smithing (21st January 2013) | 120 dungeoneering (17th June 2013) | 99 divination (24th November 2013)

Tormented demon drops: twenty effigies, nine pairs of claws, two dragon armour slices and one elite clue | Dagannoth king drops: two dragon hatchets, two elite clues, one archer ring and one warrior ring

Glacor drops: four pairs of ragefire boots, one pair of steadfast boots, six effigies, two hundred lots of Armadyl shards, three elite clues | Nex split: Torva boots | Kalphite King split: off-hand drygore mace

30/30 Shattered Heart statues completed | 16/16 Court Cases completed | 25/25 Choc Chimp Ices delivered | 500/500 Vyrewatch burned | 584/584 tasks completed | 4000/4000 chompies hunted

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I'm against the idea of extending the skills past 99, at least for now. It'd certainly make the game longer, but only by adding more grind of the same as we know of today. I find the amount to get 99 as it is today as quite good, or perhaps a little too high, thinking about new players coming into the game.

 

I too miss the time when people could spesialise if they so wished, but I think there's better ways of returning that than extending the skills. I know this suggestion has been repeated several times to the point of being boring, but why not make activities that are bound the certain skills, that are fun, and quite different to each other. Through these activities you could have rewards that is not game breaking, but rather show how much you like the activity, and perhaps give a boost to the skill it belongs to. This way people could still find their "preferred skill" if they want to be something else than all-rounders, while still letting all-rounders enjoy the game without extending the grind by 8x.

 

The skills would not be the same - they would be more connected with these activites than with the traditional training, but you could still spesialise.

 

To give an example, think about runespan, or artisan's workshop; just with an activity that's fun on its own. In addition, the rewards would be more satisfacting than the esteem points given in runespan. Let them be a bit more rewarding for its skill, and perhaps a little easier to show off, as that will always be a drive for a lot of players.

 

Last but not least: Do NOT let this be the best way of obtaining xp, but let it keep a good enough xp rate. This way everyone who cares about their xp past 90 or 99 or w/e lvl could still carry on as before, while people wanting to play the skill could have fun.

 

 

 

EDIT: I agree fully with what Quyn said above, and I should probably have said something like her post as an introduction to my post - please do treat it like it was.

Edited by Scherzo

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TBH they should raise the skillcap to 200M xp. I think it was calculated way back that, with 200M (really closer to 198M) that the level scale up would be 126

 

They would just have to add another kind of trim for the completionst capes. Or two.

 

99: skill mastery. 99s needed for max cape (ofc)

120: true skill mastery. Only 120 in dungeon needed for completionst cape

120 everything: mastery of all arts

126 everything: no idea what it would be called but they get a cookie for their efforts


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Runescape player since January 2005
Ego Sum Deus Quo Malum Caligo et Barathum


 

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A good reason why it shouldn't happen: because it wouldn't be fun. It would just be more of the same. If you stretch the game, it grows too thin. It's extremely unimaginative and boring. Maybe you like it, or the idea of it, but most people won't enjoy it. In short: I am saying that your suggesting is boring, and yes, you shouldn't suggest boring things.

 

Two kinds of games:

1) Puzzles, the kind of game that makes you think - each time it's different.

2) Achievements, the kind of game you play to comp(l)ete.

 

RS has elements of both types - type 1 is PvP, type 2 is comp caping. However RS type-2 gameplay usually has zero elements of type 1, which means it should be limited. Extending skills beyond 99 (because we have 99s, we're kinda stuck with it now) is just overdosing on grind. Again: you may enjoy it, but most people won't. If you want a game that is even grindier than RS, you should go for it, but I think RS should stay closer to mainstream grindiness.

 

That doesn't mean I don't think skill usefulness balance in RS is lousy, top-tier content is lacking, there is no incentive to use many skills past 99, xp:level balance is also lousy, grind is present in all areas of the game including pvp etc. etc.. But slapping on 120 skills is just stretching the problem, not solving it.

 

Fair enough. Point I was trying to make is that to make level cap 120 needs alot of new content, rewards and balancing of the game to make it worthwile. I didn't say they should just slap 120 skill cap now and be done with it, but instead carefully start planning new content and eventually go for 120 skill cap. Cause yes I will agree with you there, if they would just add 120 skill cap now it would be boring. They need new imaginitive training methods, games, minigames, puzzles whatever - you mention it - to make training fun and adjust new content and rewards to come along with it. But I'm simply stating that they shouldn't reward only the players who mindlessly go through all the boredom of playing skills they don't like just because this game is for all-around players. The point that the skills are dull and not fun to train is a problem itself, but they should also accept and reward different playstyles instead of trying to fit everyone in to a same mould.

 

And also it should be said that fun is relative. Whatever you find fun in completing the tasks required for completionist cape are everything but fun to me. :)

 

Also I'm not saying we should go backwards, but one of the reason RS became so popular in first place was the amount of skills and levels you could get. And I don't really recall a situation where skilling any skill in this game alone was more fun than playing some other game with more action, better gameplay and graphics. It was putting all the skills, quests, items, challenges and that together and the fact you were almost constantly evolving that made it such an interesting process. Once there is no way forward the only way for most people is out.


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Alright, given we are this far offtopic, let me make another 'suggestion'. Cap the exp from any given training method at 50 million exp. (arbitrary value, could be higher or lower based on the methods used to train a skill).

 

For magic:

Set alching/surging/barraging/teleporting/.. each with a 50m exp cap. Huzzah, more variation in training.

For agility:

50m max exp per course, 50m limit on FPF, ..

Smithing could get mixed up between superheating gold, artisans workshop, regular smithing, ..

Mining:

LRC / normal rocks / essence / ...

Cooking:

Fish / Meat / Pies / Drinks.

Fishing:

C2/flyfish/leaping fish/rocktails/..

 

etc etc.

 

Would make 200m's far more interesting to reach (also: harder, thus even more of an achievement).

 

Key problems:

-Does implementing it now give the ones that got 200m sooner an unfair edge?

- Negative impact on player savefile size.


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@Sydan

I see potential for a combination of what you said ("They need new imaginative training methods, games, minigames, puzzles whatever - you mention it - to make training fun and adjust new content and rewards to come along with it." and what Scherzo said ("activities that are bound the certain skills, that are fun, and quite different to each other. Through these activities you could have rewards that is not game breaking, but rather show how much you like the activity, and perhaps give a boost to the skill it belongs to. This way people could still find their "preferred skill" if they want to be something else than all-rounders, while still letting all-rounders enjoy the game without extending the grind by 8x.").

 

A good example, in my opinion, is Fish Flingers. A bad example is Runespan (because daaaamn it's boring). Not that Runespan couldn't be salvaged (integrating it with real runecrafting), but it sucks as-is.

 

A lot of minigames are/were popular, but not many are dedicated to skills like Flingers is while maintaining decent rewards (and Flingers contains actual fishing as well!). These are the prime ways of releasing xp-boosting sets, unique cosmetics and unique convenience items & upgrades (thinking toolbelt additions here, and things like the high-tier upgrades) - scrap the sof sets and super-rare (ibis) or unrelated (construction set) and move them to dedicated, fun and unique minigames. Of course we all know how many tries it takes Jagex to make a fun minigame, but we already have a dead Trouble Brewing and Barbarian Assault for, say, cooking and slayer.

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Supporter of Zaros | Quest Cape owner since 22 may 2010 | No skills below 99 | Total level 2595 | Completionist Cape owner since 17th June 2013 | Suggestions

99 summoning (18th June 2011, previously untrimmed) | 99 farming (14th July 2011) | 99 prayer (8th September 2011) | 99 constitution (10th September 2011) | 99 dungeoneering (15th November 2011)

99 ranged (28th November 2011) | 99 attack, 99 defence, 99 strength (11th December 2011) | 99 slayer (18th December 2011) | 99 magic (22nd December 2011) | 99 construction (16th March 2012)

99 herblore (22nd March 2012) | 99 firemaking (26th March 2012) | 99 cooking (2nd July 2012) | 99 runecrafting (12th March 2012) | 99 crafting (26th August 2012) | 99 agility (19th November 2012)

99 woodcutting (22nd November 2012) | 99 fletching (31st December 2012) | 99 thieving (3rd January 2013) | 99 hunter (11th January 2013) | 99 mining (21st January 2013) | 99 fishing (21st January 2013)

99 smithing (21st January 2013) | 120 dungeoneering (17th June 2013) | 99 divination (24th November 2013)

Tormented demon drops: twenty effigies, nine pairs of claws, two dragon armour slices and one elite clue | Dagannoth king drops: two dragon hatchets, two elite clues, one archer ring and one warrior ring

Glacor drops: four pairs of ragefire boots, one pair of steadfast boots, six effigies, two hundred lots of Armadyl shards, three elite clues | Nex split: Torva boots | Kalphite King split: off-hand drygore mace

30/30 Shattered Heart statues completed | 16/16 Court Cases completed | 25/25 Choc Chimp Ices delivered | 500/500 Vyrewatch burned | 584/584 tasks completed | 4000/4000 chompies hunted

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@Sydan

I see potential for a combination of what you said ("They need new imaginative training methods, games, minigames, puzzles whatever - you mention it - to make training fun and adjust new content and rewards to come along with it." and what Scherzo said ("activities that are bound the certain skills, that are fun, and quite different to each other. Through these activities you could have rewards that is not game breaking, but rather show how much you like the activity, and perhaps give a boost to the skill it belongs to. This way people could still find their "preferred skill" if they want to be something else than all-rounders, while still letting all-rounders enjoy the game without extending the grind by 8x.").

 

A good example, in my opinion, is Fish Flingers. A bad example is Runespan (because daaaamn it's boring). Not that Runespan couldn't be salvaged (integrating it with real runecrafting), but it sucks as-is.

 

A lot of minigames are/were popular, but not many are dedicated to skills like Flingers is while maintaining decent rewards (and Flingers contains actual fishing as well!). These are the prime ways of releasing xp-boosting sets, unique cosmetics and unique convenience items & upgrades (thinking toolbelt additions here, and things like the high-tier upgrades) - scrap the sof sets and super-rare (ibis) or unrelated (construction set) and move them to dedicated, fun and unique minigames. Of course we all know how many tries it takes Jagex to make a fun minigame, but we already have a dead Trouble Brewing and Barbarian Assault for, say, cooking and slayer.

 

I agree with most of what you said. My last point here is that for me leveling up and learning new abilities/actions is the ultimate reward itself and it's something you can't compensate with items or cosmetics. It's about knowing that my account itself is progressing and it's something that will stay and go forward. Unlike items that most often can be lost and don't directly translate (atleast for me) as progressing. I absolutely agree that players who are dedicated to certain aspects of the game should be rewarded atleast with cosmetic items to show for it, but eventually I'm hoping it will be more than just that.


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@Blyaunte: I don't know how much there is to say about RS3... there's no news.

 

Touché.

 

That said, my point was, really, that it might appear to be the time that we should now create a new thread wherein we discuss the pros/cons of "All 120 Max Kills" and what can be done to provide content for it on a dedicated thread, on a day-to-day basis, rather than constantly hashing and re-hashing these discussion points spread over 50 different threads every few weeks or so.

 

Who knows? Perhaps such a thread might turn out to be useful to the game somewhere down along the line for future development?

 

:unsure:


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Any chance RS3 will increase all skill maxes to 120? Seems like a no-brainer to me, to give most every player something to shoot for. I think the game would get old fast for those of us who would start it already near max.

 

NO

They have said a million times over there is NO plans to up the skill cap to 120 for ANYTHING other than dg.

 

And what does it matter if you start near max or not? It's the same game, just with a new back engine. It's not like its gonna give some amazing new experience that fundamentally alters how dragon slayer plays or how fishing is to training. Just a better back engine with slightly better graphics if you can run html5.

 

But then it isn't really RS3. I never played Classic, but didn't a lot of the improvements made between Classic and RS2 do exactly that - deliver a new gaming experience, even though the base content was pretty much the same?

 

I recognize that arbitrarily raising skill caps with no associated content would be kind of a waste, but they're kind of bumping against the 99 skill cap in a lot of skills already. How much more skill-related content can they realistically add to skills like Farming and Herblore, considering what they've added already, that doesn't just cram more content into the same levels? Ports seems like a cool thing that rewards being 90+ in a lot of skills, and the idea could expand for hundreds, if not thousands of more game hours for that one piece of content alone by raising skill caps.

 

As for grinding, they've already eliminated a lot of grinding by making skilling easier. 120 would be the new 99, even if they brought back pre-nerf Warbands.

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learning new abilities/actions is the ultimate reward itself and it's something you can't compensate with items or cosmetics.

Absolutely 100% agree. Luckily we have Livid Farm :D.

 

*ahem* Maybe Temple Trekking is a better example. Anyone can cast Heal spells, but if you do some Trekking, it becomes a stronger spell. I can see a division between skills as broadly 'able to perform said action' and minigames as 'being actually experienced and skilled at that action'. A similar distinction to that between being 200 combat and being a 200 combat War-chief with curses, ancients and 500m in gear.

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Supporter of Zaros | Quest Cape owner since 22 may 2010 | No skills below 99 | Total level 2595 | Completionist Cape owner since 17th June 2013 | Suggestions

99 summoning (18th June 2011, previously untrimmed) | 99 farming (14th July 2011) | 99 prayer (8th September 2011) | 99 constitution (10th September 2011) | 99 dungeoneering (15th November 2011)

99 ranged (28th November 2011) | 99 attack, 99 defence, 99 strength (11th December 2011) | 99 slayer (18th December 2011) | 99 magic (22nd December 2011) | 99 construction (16th March 2012)

99 herblore (22nd March 2012) | 99 firemaking (26th March 2012) | 99 cooking (2nd July 2012) | 99 runecrafting (12th March 2012) | 99 crafting (26th August 2012) | 99 agility (19th November 2012)

99 woodcutting (22nd November 2012) | 99 fletching (31st December 2012) | 99 thieving (3rd January 2013) | 99 hunter (11th January 2013) | 99 mining (21st January 2013) | 99 fishing (21st January 2013)

99 smithing (21st January 2013) | 120 dungeoneering (17th June 2013) | 99 divination (24th November 2013)

Tormented demon drops: twenty effigies, nine pairs of claws, two dragon armour slices and one elite clue | Dagannoth king drops: two dragon hatchets, two elite clues, one archer ring and one warrior ring

Glacor drops: four pairs of ragefire boots, one pair of steadfast boots, six effigies, two hundred lots of Armadyl shards, three elite clues | Nex split: Torva boots | Kalphite King split: off-hand drygore mace

30/30 Shattered Heart statues completed | 16/16 Court Cases completed | 25/25 Choc Chimp Ices delivered | 500/500 Vyrewatch burned | 584/584 tasks completed | 4000/4000 chompies hunted

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Part of the problem is that they're stacking so much content at the 90-99 range without really giving themselves room to grow. It's high-level content for the sake of it, often with rewards that are useless by the time you get them (But would have been perfect at lower levels - imagine the ability to farm snape grass at the same time as ranarr). There's no long-term planning.

 

Honestly, the level progression in Scape is shit. There's no other way to say it. I'm not saying there aren't some skills that they've done well, just that for every one of those there are three or four that need an overhaul, simply because they were balanced 8 years ago and that just doesn't cut it anymore. They're going to have to take care of that before they add 21 more levels and 90 million experience to every cap.

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Right now it looks like they're just making everything so fast that people get through the low and medium levels without realizing how terribly designed (and utterly useless) skills like smithing are.

 

I would love smithing to be more like Skyrim, where you can upgrade your gear based on your smithing level. We've long moved past the point where 'non combat' skills don't affect combat anyway with herblore - and rightly so.

 

Even 10 years ago, the idea that you need level 99 smithing to create level 40 equipment should have set some alarm bells ringing...

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Even 10 years ago, the idea that you need level 99 smithing to create level 40 equipment should have set some alarm bells ringing...

 

But 10+ years ago it was still a small game being run by two brothers essentially and lvl 99 smithing earned you the best gear in-game; it made perfect sense.

It was never future proof, but back then there was never a long term vision really and it didn't seem like it'd ever matter.

It's easy to say something should've happened with hindsight, it's not the same when you are there at the time.

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Even 10 years ago, the idea that you need level 99 smithing to create level 40 equipment should have set some alarm bells ringing...

 

But 10+ years ago it was still a small game being run by two brothers essentially and lvl 99 smithing earned you the best gear in-game; it made perfect sense.

It was never future proof, but back then there was never a long term vision really and it didn't seem like it'd ever matter.

It's easy to say something should've happened with hindsight, it's not the same when you are there at the time.

 

Rightly so; however, my question remains why is 99 smithing still limited to creating level 40 armor?

I can only assume Jagex asked the same question at one point in time and instead of a total mining/smithing rework (and a rework in armor I suppose) used Player Owned Ports. Part of me is thinking this supposed Port expansion is suppose to remedy this.

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There has been jmod sourced rumours around for a while about a mining and smithing rework on the cards of 'to be done' that would involve squishing the existing content down to appropriate levels. Overdue, certainly, but it's on the cards at least.


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Operation Gold Sparkles :: Chompy Kills ::  Full Profound :: Champions :: Barbarian Notes :: Champions Tackle Box :: MA Rewards

Dragonkin Journals :: Ports Stories :: Elder Chronicles :: Boss Slayer :: Penance King :: Kal'gerion Titles :: Gold Statue

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There has been jmod sourced rumours around for a while about a mining and smithing rework on the cards of 'to be done' that would involve squishing the existing content down to appropriate levels. Overdue, certainly, but it's on the cards at least.

Wasn't that around 2009/2010?


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