XP Waste and applying it to non-exp goals (split from 200m in all skills)

[DownToFletch]

Any update on G0d's account(s)?

Besides his stat reduction, we know anything about his bank status?

 

Also.

 

Drumgun is only 16m smithing xp? Idk if it was posted before but does he have that banked? Any of it?

Is Suomi questing now or what? Is he getting trimmed comp? Is he even logging in?

People without 200m agility waiting for Agilityspan?

 

Of the people in the top 15, who has a trimmed comp cape?

[Bxpprod]

There are no trim comp holders in top 15. My Kingz is highest ranked TC

[DownToFletch]

Wow. How much xp did he lose doing that?

[Bxpprod]

Wow. How much xp did he lose doing that?

 

I'll presume you mean "waste". And 0, since his goal was Trimming

[DownToFletch]

Well realistically he was xp wasting...

[Kimberly]

Well realistically he was xp wasting...

 

Realistically, he was not. XP waste might be used as a pop culture-y way of saying doing things inefficiently, but it also can mean wasting any sort of potential progress to your goal. As Sarcastic said, his goal was trimmed comp. He might've obtained it in whatever way might have aided his secondary goals, but that's his business.

[DownToFletch]

Yeah I understood that when I initially posted it, but from a time/xp standpoint I felt that he was wasting 100's of hours :/

Oh well, no skin off my back.

[Hedgehog]

Trimming is xp waste because you aren't gaining xp as efficiently as possible. Xp waste has nothing to do with your goal. Whether or not he got his trim efficiently or not is another issue, but it was xp waste because he wasn't gaining xp.

[Abdulla]

Trimming is xp waste because you aren't gaining xp as efficiently as possible. Xp waste has nothing to do with your goal. Whether or not he got his trim efficiently or not is another issue, but it was xp waste because he wasn't gaining xp.

That is such a pointless thing to say. Of course by solely focusing on one goal you are 'wasting' away the ability to work on other things. I could name a million things you are wasting away because you choose to play a video game with your spare time, but it wouldn't mean anything because you probably don't want nothing to do with those things.

[Hedgehog]

Trimming is xp waste because you aren't gaining xp as efficiently as possible. Xp waste has nothing to do with your goal. Whether or not he got his trim efficiently or not is another issue, but it was xp waste because he wasn't gaining xp.

That is such a pointless thing to say. Of course by solely focusing on one goal you are 'wasting' away the ability to work on other things. I could name a million things you are wasting away because you choose to play a video game with your spare time, but it wouldn't mean anything because you probably don't want nothing to do with those things.

I don't know why you think it is acceptable to reply to my apparently pointless post with something that is so much more pointless. All you're saying is that by doing something, you are wasting the ability to do something else, and, well, duh. However, my post clarifies why trim is xp waste, contrary to what bxp and Kim said. It doesn't matter what his goals were; he could have used to the time to gain xp, therefore he wasted xp.

[Miss Lioness]

Trimming is xp waste because you aren't gaining xp as efficiently as possible. Xp waste has nothing to do with your goal. Whether or not he got his trim efficiently or not is another issue, but it was xp waste because he wasn't gaining xp.

That is such a pointless thing to say. Of course by solely focusing on one goal you are 'wasting' away the ability to work on other things. I could name a million things you are wasting away because you choose to play a video game with your spare time, but it wouldn't mean anything because you probably don't want nothing to do with those things.

I don't know why you think it is acceptable to reply to my apparently pointless post with something that is so much more pointless. All you're saying is that by doing something, you are wasting the ability to do something else, and, well, duh. However, my post clarifies why trim is xp waste, contrary to what bxp and Kim said. It doesn't matter what his goals were; he could have used to the time to gain xp, therefore he wasted xp.

 

And then he would get any single bit closer to his goal... What is the point in playing a game where you want to reach X but you need to do Y else you get the madness of the community at ya?

 

So you are basically saying, Trimmed cape can only be a goal if you don't have any exp to waste anymore...

[Gemeos2]

Are we seriously discussing this AGAIN?

 

I he already has 5b XP how is he even wasting XP?!

 

Also, even if he was sub 5b, if his goal wasn't skilling related, he wouldn't be xp wasting at all. EFFICIENCY DEPENDS ON YOUR GOAL. Please, try to understand this this time.

[Miss Lioness]

Are we seriously discussing this AGAIN?

 

I he already has 5b XP how is he even wasting XP?!

 

Also, even if he was sub 5b, if his goal wasn't skilling related, he wouldn't be xp wasting at all. EFFICIENCY DEPENDS ON YOUR GOAL. Please, try to understand this this time.

 

Agreed!

[Saradomin_Mage]

I think they were trying to draw a distinction between efficiency and XP wasting, taking the latter as literally as possible.

 

Also about My Kingz, who also seems to be chasing XP now (but obviously not back then when he was trimming).

[crazycdcm]

Trimming is xp waste because you aren't gaining xp as efficiently as possible. Xp waste has nothing to do with your goal. Whether or not he got his trim efficiently or not is another issue, but it was xp waste because he wasn't gaining xp.

I agree, this is an argument of semantics and word meanings.

 

I think there's a lot of negative connotations to the term "xp-waste". You might dislike your favourite past-time being insulted as "xp-waste". But xp-waste is just the argument used against your fav. activity used by someone who values XP. You may disagree with their sentiments of playing solely for XP, but that doesn't change the fact that your favourite activity is an xp-waste. But that's not a bad thing!

 

To bring in an irl analogy... We'll make up the term "career-waste", spending time on something other than your career. You could go and spend time with your family, have a drink with friends while watching some sport. That's all career-waste. You could have spent that time making yourself more desirable for employment, better in you current role. And the person who's interested solely in their career would tell you, you're career-wasting. But we don't mind, we want more than just a career out of life. But what we are doing does remain career-waste, as it's not a subjective measurement.

 

Xp-waste is just a word, and if you're a person who values solely xp, then xp-waste is also an inefficient thing to do. With or without that mindset, xp-waste is a verifiable fact, and it will exist independent of your goals.

[Hedgehog]

Trimming is xp waste because you aren't gaining xp as efficiently as possible. Xp waste has nothing to do with your goal. Whether or not he got his trim efficiently or not is another issue, but it was xp waste because he wasn't gaining xp.

I agree, this is an argument of semantics and word meanings.

 

I think there's a lot of negative connotations to the term "xp-waste". You might dislike your favourite past-time being insulted as "xp-waste". But xp-waste is just the argument used against your fav. activity used by someone who values XP. You may disagree with their sentiments of playing solely for XP, but that doesn't change the fact that your favourite activity is an xp-waste. But that's not a bad thing!

 

To bring in an irl analogy... We'll make up the term "career-waste", spending time on something other than your career. You could go and spend time with your family, have a drink with friends while watching some sport. That's all career-waste. You could have spent that time making yourself more desirable for employment, better in you current role. And the person who's interested solely in their career would tell you, you're career-wasting. But we don't mind, we want more than just a career out of life. But what we are doing does remain career-waste, as it's not a subjective measurement.

 

Xp-waste is just a word, and if you're a person who values solely xp, then xp-waste is also an inefficient thing to do. With or without that mindset, xp-waste is a verifiable fact, and it will exist independent of your goals.

Yes. Trimming is an xp waste, but not necessarily inefficient.

[Quyneax]

I'm not sure if the literal view reflects the way the term 'xp-waste' is used. There are enough people to whom 'xp-waste' is synonymous with 'inefficient'. That is not wrong, that is how language works. Equally, it is not wrong to say there is a difference between the terms. What is wrong is saying that one view is correct, which is what you (both sides) are doing now.

[Fallstar]

A better way of putting it is that trimming is a loss of potential xp, assuming you are not 200m all.

[Hedgehog]

I'm not sure if the literal view reflects the way the term 'xp-waste' is used. There are enough people to whom 'xp-waste' is synonymous with 'inefficient'. That is not wrong, that is how language works. Equally, it is not wrong to say there is a difference between the terms. What is wrong is saying that one view is correct, which is what you (both sides) are doing now.

Xp-waste has a very clear definition of "waste of xp" that really leaves to room for interpretation. There is no possible way to come to the conclusion that trimming isn't a waste of xp. In the time that it takes to trim, you can get a shit ton of xp. You cannot possibly deny that. You're thinking of time-waste, which means "waste of time".

[784]

I'm not sure if the literal view reflects the way the term 'xp-waste' is used. There are enough people to whom 'xp-waste' is synonymous with 'inefficient'. That is not wrong, that is how language works. Equally, it is not wrong to say there is a difference between the terms. What is wrong is saying that one view is correct, which is what you (both sides) are doing now.

Defining words used in the RS community by how the majority of the community uses them is like teachers changing how they use words to match how the 7-year-olds they teach use them. Yeah, the majority of people in that school might use the wrong definition, but if the definition makes no sense the people smart enough to know better still shouldn't use it!

 

XP-waste is defined independent of your goals or anything else in the world, XP-waste is about losing out on experience points you could have gained in the same time played by doing something differently. If someone wants to say that "XP-waste" is synonymous with "not perfectly efficient in pursuing a set goal" then that's their choice, but their choice does not make sense. We all XP-waste all the time, and we should all be okay with that. Especially if your goals do not involve efficiently gaining experience, because then your goal actually IS to waste XP. That doesn't mean you can't pursue your goal incredibly efficiently, and that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with pursuing that goal, but if your goal is 200m RC by graahking natures, or even if it was like getting all rewards from Barb Assault, that's days and days and days of XP-waste, regardless of how efficiently you pursue it.

 

Edit: I mean, [bleep], look at my signature, that was a lot of XP-waste, but it was something I wanted to do, and I did it fairly efficiently since the GE makes it piss easy to be efficient in the act of "buying shit" It was XP-waste, but I don't regret it, I wanted to do it, and it being XP-waste had no connection at all to how efficiently I did it.

[Quyneax]

You guys would make horrible linguists (as you are now anyway :P).

 

"Defining" a word is not your job, nor mine, nor anyone else's - a definition is something that can be tentatively determined by looking at how people use the word. Simply by observing that Bxp, Kimberly and also myself understood 'xp-waste' to mean, in this context, 'inefficiency', you can conclude that the word is not limited to the meaning 'gaining less than the maximum possible amount of xp in a given amount of time' or similar. There can be different meanings depending on context.

 

This is also why we have other words/phrases:

- Inefficiency

- Imperfect use of time

- Loss of potential xp

- Gained less xp than possible

- Did not achieve goal X as fast as could be

etc.

 

All can be called 'xp-waste', as a joke especially, which is still a way of communicating. If you can't read the right meaning into 'xp-waste' depending on context, that means you're not being cooperative in communication ;) (or it is really unclear, but honestly how unclear is 'xp-waste'?). Instead of arguing that it's 'wrong' or 'unclear', accept that it is the case and type the extra ten letters to be specific next time :P. As I said, the only wrong thing is to say that using a word in a certain way is wrong.

 

Edited July 21, 2013 by Kimberly

[crazycdcm]

While a word may have an accrued meaning, that doesn't mean you should adopt this generalisation, contrary to the refined definition, or you'll lose specificity in language. And for all intents & purposes, they are incorrect evolutions of the definition, and wrong. Someone has to maintain definitions of a word tightly, or the language will become splayed out.

 

To an extreme, if I call a potato an apple, does apple now mean starchy root that grows underground, as well as sweet crunchy fruit found on trees? How about if 4 or 5 people call potatoes apples? When does it stop being an incorrect usage of "apple", just when enough people are wrong? It was still wrong in the first place, and also when should we stop correcting people on the definition? Or do we just let it evolve, and in the future have to specify whether we mean an "earth apple" or a "tree apple". We had that specificity before, and in a few years time when someone calls a tree earth, we again will need further specificiers! An "above ground earth apple" and a "below ground earth apple". Eventually someone will have the bright idea to call the below ground earth apple a gapple, and the above ground an apple, and things will be much simpler. What's wrong with cutting out the middleman and ensuring a language remains specific?

 

I feel more strongly about xp-waste, as it's less of a word, more a formula. Waste XP, how would you do that? By not gaining as much XP as you could have.

[crazycdcm]

Can there be a 200M all skills off-topic side-thread, to discuss the countless issues that do derail this thread? Because these are points people enjoy talking, arguing about, and something's wrong if we can't discuss it on a forum.

 

Apologies for my ignoring the implication, it is an interesting area, but not interesting enough to go and create a thread for, especially without having the power to split the existing posts to a new thread.

 

Anyway, a kind of overflow thread would be appreciated by at least me, maybe others? Though it would probably need mod support, to just transplant the issues that naturally arise in discussion, rather than trying to continue a defunct discussion past its sell-by date on a different thread, after the derailment has already taken place. Can't really think of a name, and it's perhaps too idealistic to work anyway. There is definitely a recurrent problem though.

 

On topic:

 

Any speculations about the "seasonal high scores"? In all the preview videos they just look the same as current highscores...

 

Think the temporary achievements will be enough to distract some of the top players from other, more permanent goals?

 

What are the odds on there being actually skill-based highscores? (Not skills, an important distinction).

 

I think it could be interesting if there's enough recognition for being first (in game titles, in game I cringe to say it "crowns"). I will dislike it if it disadvantages those who are already 200M in a lot of skills, for example, would Suomi ever be able to appear on those highscores? Anything that makes your previous positive work a negative is bad design.

 

Edited July 21, 2013 by Kimberly
The post you were referring to has been restored. :)

[Jebrim]

You guys have it all wrong. Clearly any time spent not gaining Agility Xp is an Xp waste. Enough said. :>

[Kimberly]

This discussion has been split off of the 200m in all skills thread so people can discuss the concept of XP-Waste and how it applies to non-exp goals (if at all!). As always please remember our forum guidelines when you post and if you see anything naughty, report it!

 

If you have any questions or concerns, please PM me or any other member of the moderation staff.