11-Dec-2012 - Player-Owned Ports

[Barney.S]

All in all in the POP vs Nex armour discussion for the time being we are probably all better off if we just agree to disagree.

 

 

Personally, I am 50% into bowl and should get 4th ship within the next 2-3 days, which is pretty exiting!

[Sy_Accursed]

I think jagex should have had a clear design plan from the start of rs2 on, categorizing skills in the gathering, combat and buyable categories and parring all skills at around 100k per hour considering efficiency(ie moneymaking).

 

Sadly Jagex has never been able to make any sort of long term plans, best example of this is the Biohazard quest line; been over a decade since it was started and only one new quest in the last 7 years, with absolutely zero signs of ever intending to be be finished. The Elemental Workshop series was supposed to be concluded in the first half of 2012 and have reached Elemental Workshop 7/8/9, and has obviously been forgotten.

 

I don't recall any promises of EW being finished in early 2012 and the link you cited doesn't back that up either (it only confirms 3-5 more parts)

[Yoko Kurama]

@ Xpx

Noone before you argued that ''jagex promised us...'' was in any way something a sane person would consider relevant. Also i'd like to see proof that pop armor doesn't last 12 hours. As far as i'm aware of, the problem here is that nex gear can last up to 100 hours in the same conditions pop armor lasts 12, not that the 12 hour spec is wrong.

 

Actually, all our arguments were implicitly based on that promise (mine explicitely so). People aren't complaining about set effects just because Nex has one and PoP doesn't (though, admittedly, it is factor), but also because they explicitly told us when they added set effects to Nex that they'd do the same to PoP. Also at stake was the promise that PoP *would* be THE best.

 

As for your second claim about the degrading time. That's nonsense. When Jagex said 12 hours, it was immediately interpreted (and they knew it would be interpreted, particularly because of the long list of precedents) to mean it would be function like all the other major degradable armour/weaponry (chaotics, Nex, barrows), namely, it would only last for 12 hours of direct combat use, not just standing out while the action bar is actve. Meaning, just like Nex/barrows/chaotic, you'd be able to use it for longer than 12 hours because the actual fighting is followed by wait times.

 

 

And you missed my point- noone cares how hard it took you to do something. You doesn't matter.

What is doable now is the only thing that really matters. W can't sit here and say that because rc used to be one of the hardest skills in rs that pop armor should be better because of it now. With how easy skills are to train nowadays, level 90 in a few of these skills isn't something that is going to break your back, and particularly for a new player just starting out, pop armor will be a very nice candy once he achieves a few of these skills. Overall, pop and nex gear are both very good armors at two very different ends of the spectrum, with each having its own distinct advantages.

 

No, you still haven't grasped it have you. This is not personal or about me per se. If I was the last old-school player, I guess that'd make sense, I'd be irrelevant. But I'm not, there are thousands of old-school high level players. And many of us raised skills in a time when most of them were completely useless at the higher levels. Why? Because Jagex always promised that although skilling was far from perfect, some day they'd do a rework and reward those of us who actually made it to hgh levels(and over the years, slowly, with things like Ovls/extremes, and dungeoneering, they started fulfilling their word. PoP was originally just another chapter in that years-long mission. And before we found out the armors were this lame, it seemed like a good way to keep their word. So it's not about me, or the present, it's about Jagex fulfilling a years long vision for the game and promises.

 

Once jagex nerfs void i think people might realize pop will be the more efficient armor to use for high level bossing.

 

It will not be useful so long as the timer is as low as it currently is.

 

And i sill think jagex totally had cost in mind when they were designing the pop sets, as these totally seem like welfare/defensive alternatives to nex sets.

 

No, they weren't. They explicitely told us that not only would PoP be the best armour in the game, but it would also get set effects.

[Yoko Kurama]

And the plot thickens: apparently you can't repair PoP armours at any degradation level, you can only repair it if it's 0%. Now they're just being malicious. What am I supposed to do if I want to go with my friends to boss hunting for a few hours, but my PoP is at 15%? I am supposed to go [bleep] around to degrade it first? [bleep] Jagex. Either they're most malicious people, or they're grossly incompetent. Half these issues(if they aren't being malicious that is) should have been tested for, 2 minutes after they designed the armours, 2 months ago.

[Barney.S]

What'd you expect. It's Jagex. :D I don't understand how people get so worked about them not coming through with their promises. Especially since you are supposedly a veteran in RS.

 

I have been playing this game since 2001. There is nothing Jagex can do - short of restetting all my skills to 0 and clearing my bank just for lols - that would get me so worked up. (and even if they did that I would be like "Damn, I should've seen it coming" :D

[Yoko Kurama]

That sounds like nothing more than trivializing the issue to be honest. They promised us certain things in return for our money, I expect to be serviced. Their previous bouts of incompetence and lying do not excuse their current bouts of it.

 

Also, credit where credit is due, Mod Edam is apparently investigating the issue. Finally.

[xpx]

I'm still baffled by your complete and utter trust in jagex. I have no idea how you can call yourself an oldschool player and have that. I lost any ''trust'' i had in them over 9 years ago.

 

Also, there is really no reason to over-dramatize the degradation- it's the same as pvp gear... which means you can TAKE IT OFF :eek: . When jagex said it degrades in 12 hours, they actually meant 12 hours, and because they did exactly what they told us, you are mad. Sure, many would interpret it differently, but in the end of the day, again, what you interpret it to be really doesn't matter. For some strange reason you try to picture jagex as a friend who keeps messing up and whom you want to help out, when in reality it's just another big firm with a bunch of knobs sitting on their asses all day long.

 

I do agree that not being able to repair it at any state is really messed up and i guess that might actually become a reason why they have to change the degradation. Still, i do maintain that the current degradation rate is entirely reasonable.

[Sumpta]

Apparently, Jagex is looking into the degradation time issue. Mod Edam posted in a RSOF thread yesterday.

[Yoko Kurama]

They have always been incompetent and often renegged on their word, but never in such a flagrant and callous way. They're professional hucksters and scammers.

 

Apparently, Jagex is looking into the degradation time issue. Mod Edam posted in a RSOF thread yesterday.

 

Yup, I mentioned that above. Hopefully he actually does something about it.

 

Edited to add more replies instead of double posting:

 

@Xpx:

 

Also, there is really no reason to over-dramatize the degradation- it's the same as pvp gear... which means you can TAKE IT OFF .

 

Are you really so entrenched in your views that you will just spout whatever comes to your mind, no matter how nonsensically implausible it is? No one wants to flash their ARMOUR in a fight every 30 seconds. Combat is about fighting, not stripping your clothes down and up again. Also, they never implied it was supposed to function like PvP.

 

When jagex said it degrades in 12 hours, they actually meant 12 hours, and because they did exactly what they told us, you are mad.

 

If you had actually kept up with the issue, you'd realize that people are claiming that their armour is degrading in an hour. What part of 1 =/= 12, exactly, is difficult for you to understand? And what part of, everyone thought it would work exactly barrows/Nex/chaotics is so complicated? My patience is wearing thin with your thoughtless knee-jerk responses.

 

 

Sure, many would interpret it differently, but in the end of the day, again, what you interpret it to be really doesn't matter. For some strange reason you try to picture jagex as a friend who keeps messing up and whom you want to help out, when in reality it's just another big firm with a bunch of knobs sitting on their asses all day long.

 

Yes, I consider Jagex to be such a great friend of mine that I have repeatedly called them incompetent, malicious, and told them to go [bleep] themselves. Apparently, in addition to mathematics, you are ignoring the semantic content of my posts as well.

[xpx]

People claim alot of things. The reports i've heard are that it degrades in 12 hours of combat stance. The issue you are having is likely the virtus hood comparison at KK, but you have to consider that at a 6 ticks per attack pace and fast kills with enough people, the virtus hood could last more than 70 hours of combat. Again, there are different reports out there, and if it's anything less than 12 hours it would be fixed 100%, but to my mind, the 12 hours of real combat is reasonable, while discussing a potential bug isn't. And again- everyone thought =/= reality.

[Everyonedies]

How much are scrimshaws of strength going for?

I was able to sell mine for a little over 2mil.

edit. I wanted to add this i think the idea of POP armour is good, but why not just add a set effect of 5% damage reduction on all hits or something along those lines since this is the best defensive amrour. It would more then likely make most of the people happy since even though it doesnt get the damage it gets something. Or if POP is really the poor mans gear lower the cost to repair it so it could be used on slayer tasks or lesser boss monsters (ie barrows, mole, GWD).

[homer205]

People claim alot of things. The reports i've heard are that it degrades in 12 hours of combat stance. The issue you are having is likely the virtus hood comparison at KK, but you have to consider that at a 6 ticks per attack pace and fast kills with enough people, the virtus hood could last more than 70 hours of combat. Again, there are different reports out there, and if it's anything less than 12 hours it would be fixed 100%, but to my mind, the 12 hours of real combat is reasonable, while discussing a potential bug isn't. And again- everyone thought =/= reality.

 

I thought you didn't trust Jagex to fix stuff like this?

 

I'm still baffled by your complete and utter trust in jagex. I have no idea how you can call yourself an oldschool player and have that. I lost any ''trust'' i had in them over 9 years ago.

 

 

 

On a different note, seeing as the increased trade good totems are useless for the moment, what should I spend my excess jade on if I have fourth ship, all crew and upgrades?

[Yoko Kurama]

I wanted to add this i think the idea of POP armour is good, but why not just add a set effect of 5% damage reduction on all hits or something along those lines since this is the best defensive amrour. It would more then likely make most of the people happy since even though it doesnt get the damage it gets something. Or if POP is really the poor mans gear lower the cost to repair it so it could be used on slayer tasks or lesser boss monsters (ie barrows, mole, GWD).

 

The problem with adding defense is that PoP already has very good defense that is practically useless because defense doesn't matter as much as it should (sort of like how most people pre-EOC used defenders instead of shields). So you'd be back at square one.

[Saradomin_Mage]

@Balth, Bar/Workshop upgrades, or save it for when totems are useful?

 

Tested out superior tetsu gear at various places, and it degrades at the same rate (1 minute of degradation for 1 minute in combat stance) regardless of single/multicombat. It's really a 12 hour degrade - it's just that all the other so-called 10/15 hour degrade armours and gear just have much longer lifespans because they run on combat ticks and not combat stance. The most ridiculous was Zaryte bow pre-EoC, which lasted 60,000 attacks (or 50 hours) because of the way it was coded.

 

I think the disappointment is largely because the 12 hours is on a different (but more acccurate!) degrade scale from everything else, and thus it merely pales in comparison :P

[Yoko Kurama]

Yes, that'd be a fair assessment.

[xpx]

Glad that was cleared... You can't just trust unnamed sources and make blind assessments based upon them.

 

In any case, you can make the argument that pop armor is exactly and precisely what they said it would be, it's just too exactly and precisely what they said it would be and defense is useless in eoc.

[Barney.S]

@Balth, Bar/Workshop upgrades, or save it for when totems are useful?

 

Tested out superior tetsu gear at various places, and it degrades at the same rate (1 minute of degradation for 1 minute in combat stance) regardless of single/multicombat. It's really a 12 hour degrade - it's just that all the other so-called 10/15 hour degrade armours and gear just have much longer lifespans because they run on combat ticks and not combat stance. The most ridiculous was Zaryte bow pre-EoC, which lasted 60,000 attacks (or 50 hours) because of the way it was coded.

 

I think the disappointment is largely because the 12 hours is on a different (but more acccurate!) degrade scale from everything else, and thus it merely pales in comparison :P

 

First post here where someone who has actually tested it gives their results. That is great, thanks for the info. So all that talk about 1hour degration and 3 hour degration at GWD is utter BS, that is good to know.

 

If they fix it so that you can repair it whenever not just at 0% and add some kind of bonus (either more time or a dmg boost) then I will be happy, because I still consider POP a fun, rewarding and low input D&D.

[Emaxganis]

Sold a pair of ranged legs today, 20m :(

[Yoko Kurama]

I am simply redirecting complaints on RSOF to here. I specifically mentioned that people were "claiming" this(implying that this has not yet been completely confirmed), and I specifically even italicized the word "claiming" to make that point clear. My view was that, at the very least, these claims should be investigated. I was also of the mind that it's possible that it might be a player specific glitch that only applied to certain activities/players, rather than the sets in general (since this would not be the first time with PoP glitches).

 

And yes, if the degrading is brought in line with the other items, and it can be repaired at any time, I will be happy enough with it. I won't forget about the set effects, of course, but I can live with that.

[xpx]

I am simply redirecting complaints on RSOF to here. I specifically mentioned that people were "claiming" this(implying that this has not yet been completely confirmed), and I specifically even italicized the word "claiming" to make that point clear. My view was that, at the very least, these claims should be investigated. I was also of the mind that it's possible that it might be a player specific glitch that only applied to certain activities/players, rather than the sets in general (since this would not be the first time with PoP glitches).

 

And yes, if the degrading is brought in line with the other items, and it can be repaired at any time, I will be happy enough with it. I won't forget about the set effects, of course, but I can live with that.

And why exactly were you so stubborn not to believe me when i said, numerous times over two days that it degrades in 12 hours? Instead you go out to find the most ridiculous claims from the most unreliable of sources and start making assessments upon them. Why even argue about something if you aren't sure about it. In any case, you might be in for a long wait. I'm relatively sure your happiness wasn't on their to-do list for this year. Sorry.

[Yoko Kurama]

And why exactly were you so stubborn not to believe me when i said, numerous times over two days that it degrades in 12 hours?

 

It does not degrade if 12 hours is to be understood conventionally in the context of RS. Indeed, every indication was made on Jagex's part to indicate that it would last longer than Nex, and in the same framework as Barrows/Nex/Chaotics. That's what people mean when they say it doesn't "last 12 hours", if Jagex had intended to make a completely unique degrading system, they should have notified us beforehand. In addition to this central claim (which is true), I also relayed some complaints from RSOF (which while unconfirmed at the time) did say that it was degrading extremely fast (1-3 hours).

 

Instead you go out to find the most ridiculous claims from the most unreliable of sources and start making assessments upon them. Why even argue about something if you aren't sure about it. In any case, you might be in for a long wait. I'm relatively sure your happiness wasn't on their to-do list for this year. Sorry.

 

The only part my assessments have been based on are the following facts:

 

a) PoP does not last 12 hours as 12 hours is conventionally understood as far degrading goes in the game (like barrows/Nex).

b) PoP can not be repaired unless it is at 0%

c) No set effects.

 

All of these claims are true.

 

My arguments have been based on those.

 

In addition to that, I have also relayed complaints (and I have made it clear that they were merely claims/hearsay) which might have possibly been true and warranted discussion and investigation. So I don't think I have relied on any false data to make my central argument.

[Platinum_Myr]

It should be repairable at any %, but the 12hrs time doesn't bother me that much... what's the cost to repair it?

[strilmus]

Head: 300k

Body: 1.2m

Legs: 600k

 

note that this is with level 99 in the appropriate skill (smithing, crafting, or rc), the price increases if you're lower than that

 

coupled with the charges running out faster than normal

[So Rowdy]

That's not bad at all...

[Quyneax]

Don't forget the 12 hours includes time spent in combat stance after a kill, and goes in 6s increments. Using Surge/Anticipation etc. by itself takes 18s off the timer. I personally prefer the tick-based system which is 100% straightforward - a tick hitting or being hit counts as combat, anything else doesn't. The whole combat stance thing annoys me a lot anyway, the way it interrupts various interfaces, it was implemented far too rigorously.

 

Anyway, unrelated to that, failed the 42nd story mission :(.