Jump to content

Welcome to Rune Tips, the first ever RuneScape help site. We aim to offer skill guides, quest guides, maps, calculators, informative databases, tips, and much more to help you get the most from the Massive Online Adventure Game, RuneScape, by Jagex Ltd © 2009.

Report Ad

Welcome to Forum.Tip.It
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

11-Dec-2012 - Player-Owned Ports


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
5373 replies to this topic

#2581
Yoko Kurama
[ Display Name History ]

Yoko Kurama

    Ghost Cloak

  • Members
  • 1,988 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Joined:20 January 2007

I should have focused on scrolls in the earlier regions..the time and requirements for them in the Pincers is insane.. Think it was 12k in Morale/SF and an 18 hour voyage..
Failed my last tetsu leg scroll but got the 25 plates from my story mission. :(. Basically GF to trying to make some cash from Ports.


I feel the same way with regards to Scrolls. I am 70% into the bowl, and am now considering if it's worth it to just stick with the bowl artificially, get all the armour scrolls, then move onto Pinciers.

Also, could you share your crew setup?

#2582
JeRambo
[ Display Name History ]

JeRambo

    Cherremy

  • Members
  • 2,086 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada
  • Joined:2 July 2009
  • RuneScape Status:P2P
  • Clan:Wicked Fury
Sure.

Posted Image

Bought that crappy merchant cause I badly needed another one. Succeeded 25 chi mission on second attempt.

And going to attempt scroll voyage again.. :pray:.
Posted Image

Not too optimistic.
Posted Image
"Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come."
"An imperfect man can do great deeds, and a great man imperfect ones.

#2583
Yoko Kurama
[ Display Name History ]

Yoko Kurama

    Ghost Cloak

  • Members
  • 1,988 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Joined:20 January 2007
Thanks, you rock.

Also, what do you think of my strategy to artificially delay my stay in the Bowl to rack up scrolls and then move onto Pinciers?

#2584
Saradomin_Mage
[ Display Name History ]

Saradomin_Mage

    The Two and Only

  • Members
  • 7,273 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Varrock Museum
  • Joined:13 November 2004
  • RuneScape Status:P2P
What would you be rushing to the Pincers for?

6Ij0n.jpg

In real life MMO you don't get 99 smithing by making endless bronze daggers.


#2585
Yoko Kurama
[ Display Name History ]

Yoko Kurama

    Ghost Cloak

  • Members
  • 1,988 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Joined:20 January 2007

What would you be rushing to the Pincers for?


For the trade-goods. I have 9 scroll pieces at the moment. From the looks of it, it would take me forever to assemble everything in the Pincers. Which is why I should probably just only do Scroll missions for the rest of the Bowl, or something.

#2586
Saradomin_Mage
[ Display Name History ]

Saradomin_Mage

    The Two and Only

  • Members
  • 7,273 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Varrock Museum
  • Joined:13 November 2004
  • RuneScape Status:P2P
If you're not rushing to build and sell anything, you may want to more actively hunt scrolls while you can with a better success rate and faster voyages.

6Ij0n.jpg

In real life MMO you don't get 99 smithing by making endless bronze daggers.


#2587
Yoko Kurama
[ Display Name History ]

Yoko Kurama

    Ghost Cloak

  • Members
  • 1,988 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Joined:20 January 2007

If you're not rushing to build and sell anything, you may want to more actively hunt scrolls while you can with a better success rate and faster voyages.


I am only there to make the Superior Armours. I don't care about the Scrimshaws or any of that other stuff. So I need another 27 Scrolls. I'm actively hunting the scrolls at the moment. How much boost does that Scroll Totem give?Is it worth it?

#2588
Platinum_Myr
[ Display Name History ]

Platinum_Myr

    Moss Giant Whipper

  • Members
  • 2,604 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oregon, United States
  • Joined:1 May 2006
  • RuneScape Status:P2P
  • RSN:Serena Sedai
  • RSN2:Fyora Serena
  • Clan:The Knighted Angels
As far as I've seen once we reach a new area, scroll missions all go up right? So we can't just select a previous region and hunt for scrolls that way correct?

Serena_Sedai.png
Maxed since Sunday, January 9th, 2014
Completionist since Wednesday, June 4th, 2014


#2589
Yoko Kurama
[ Display Name History ]

Yoko Kurama

    Ghost Cloak

  • Members
  • 1,988 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Joined:20 January 2007

As far as I've seen once we reach a new area, scroll missions all go up right? So we can't just select a previous region and hunt for scrolls that way correct?


Scrolls can only be hunted through Special Voyages, which are tied to the highest region unlocked, not the region focused on. So, no.

#2590
Saradomin_Mage
[ Display Name History ]

Saradomin_Mage

    The Two and Only

  • Members
  • 7,273 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Varrock Museum
  • Joined:13 November 2004
  • RuneScape Status:P2P
The telescope is expected to be a 1% boost to scroll mission odds, in line with the other totem upgrades. If this is the case it's hardly worth it, but you could build them if you want.

6Ij0n.jpg

In real life MMO you don't get 99 smithing by making endless bronze daggers.


#2591
Grand Lord Dan
[ Display Name History ]

Grand Lord Dan

    Goblin Armour

  • Members
  • 128 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Don't ask.
  • Joined:28 December 2010
  • RuneScape Status:P2P
  • RSN:DJ Dan-3

The telescope is expected to be a 1% boost to scroll mission odds, in line with the other totem upgrades. If this is the case it's hardly worth it, but you could build them if you want.


If it means anything; I built one yesterday and got a Scroll voyage just today, so it's 1/1. Still waiting for days to pass to see if it does anything, obviously.
How many hotdogs does it take to mow a garage door?

#2592
Saradomin_Mage
[ Display Name History ]

Saradomin_Mage

    The Two and Only

  • Members
  • 7,273 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Varrock Museum
  • Joined:13 November 2004
  • RuneScape Status:P2P

so.. does snyone know the conclusions tothe storylines and wants to share it, wiki has nothing :/


God's Grace Upon You

6Ij0n.jpg

In real life MMO you don't get 99 smithing by making endless bronze daggers.


#2593
chenw
[ Display Name History ]

chenw

    Ice Giant Melter

  • Members
  • 4,953 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Putting the Fiyr on the Pyre
  • Joined:24 July 2004
  • RuneScape Status:P2P
  • RSN:Tim ChenW2
Posted Image

Failed today's voyage, now the scrolls are at 16k singles, I sent out today at 65%

I plan to get Vampyrism after I finish Tetsu Helm, then Death Lotus after Vampyrism, then no idea after that :P

Posted Image

My actual progress

tim_chenw2.png
6,924th to 30 hunting, 13,394th to 30 summoning, 52,993rd to 30 Divination

Kiln Record (Post-EoC): W 25 - L 0, 14 Uncut Onyx, 8 Jad hits received (Best record: Two in the same kiln)
Obby set renewed post update #2: 0

QBD drops: 21 crossbow parts, 3 Visages, 1 Kites, 2 Kits

Max Port Score [2205] Achieved: 27th April 2013 (World 2nd)

 

Farmyard Rampage ranking: 12th, 50,000 Kills.

 

Dragon Pickaxe Drops: 1 (Times after I first entered Battlefield: 2h)


#2594
Urza285
[ Display Name History ]

Urza285

    Ice Giant Melter

  • Members
  • 4,133 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Michigan
  • Joined:7 August 2004
  • RuneScape Status:P2P
  • RSN:Urza285
  • RSN2:Urza285
  • Clan:Looking: com/skiller
For those who want to see what the pristine warehouse looks like:

Posted Image

I might as well work at the jade portal if no one can get a picture. Depending on if someone posts one I might either get it before or after the luxurious bar.



Maxed [February 14, 2012] | Completionist [October 25, 2012] | Trimmed Completionist [In Progress]

Visit my Blog!


u_rza.png


#2595
Saradomin_Mage
[ Display Name History ]

Saradomin_Mage

    The Two and Only

  • Members
  • 7,273 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Varrock Museum
  • Joined:13 November 2004
  • RuneScape Status:P2P

Posted Image

Failed today's voyage, now the scrolls are at 16k singles, I sent out today at 65%

25 scroll pieces holy crap

Knew I should never have passed up scroll missions ughhhh

6Ij0n.jpg

In real life MMO you don't get 99 smithing by making endless bronze daggers.


#2596
chenw
[ Display Name History ]

chenw

    Ice Giant Melter

  • Members
  • 4,953 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Putting the Fiyr on the Pyre
  • Joined:24 July 2004
  • RuneScape Status:P2P
  • RSN:Tim ChenW2

For those who want to see what the pristine warehouse looks like:

Posted Image

I might as well work at the jade portal if no one can get a picture. Depending on if someone posts one I might either get it before or after the luxurious bar.


I can't say i see the jade, unless those vases are jade...

My scroll count is as a result of doing every scroll mission that popped up, regardless of my success %, I skipped 1 and failed 3 so far.

tim_chenw2.png
6,924th to 30 hunting, 13,394th to 30 summoning, 52,993rd to 30 Divination

Kiln Record (Post-EoC): W 25 - L 0, 14 Uncut Onyx, 8 Jad hits received (Best record: Two in the same kiln)
Obby set renewed post update #2: 0

QBD drops: 21 crossbow parts, 3 Visages, 1 Kites, 2 Kits

Max Port Score [2205] Achieved: 27th April 2013 (World 2nd)

 

Farmyard Rampage ranking: 12th, 50,000 Kills.

 

Dragon Pickaxe Drops: 1 (Times after I first entered Battlefield: 2h)


#2597
Thorgmir
[ Display Name History ]

Thorgmir

    Goblin Armour

  • Members
  • 145 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Joined:17 April 2011
  • RuneScape Status:P2P
  • RSN:Grate Scot

To me this probability math has a few flaws in its considerations.
1) It ignores the factor of time - a failed voyage doesn't just mean less resources it comes at a high time cost.
2) It ignores the practical resource cost of failure - ship repair charges and dead crew costs impact on overall outcome, especially when you consider a crew death not only costs resources to replace it has an ongoing negative effect whilst that replacement is levelled up.
3) It is all very well in theory, but as with most complex probability/statistical odds theory and reality rarely conform taking thousands and thousands of interactions to trend towards the expected; so for a singular user this model is unlikely to play out correctly. It could work out much better than someone using no merchant BUT it could also end up much worse.


I'll address these points in reverse order:

3. You vastly underestimate the power of the central limit theorem. The variance of the mean result is extremely small after, say, 100 voyages, which is a rather low proportion of the total you will have to do. I can very confidently say this will work out better for you, and no, you do not need thousands and thousands of trials to "trend toward expected." In any case, there is variance with and without merchants, and you could end up worse than expected without a merchant, too. Please do the math before making bogus claims about probability theory.

2. While it's true, I ignored this, the effects are rather limited. While I have only my own data to rely upon, I have never lost a crew member (and if you have lifeboats, you don't even risk them), and have never been charged what I would consider a significant amount for ship repairs. By assuming my own mediocrity, I can only conclude that such serious costs are rare and not a significant factor. This would then only become a factor when you have no marginal benefit from acquiring more resources (aka, you already have all upgrades and more resources than you know what to do with).

1. The time cost is also irrelevant, and in fact doesn't exist. There are two kinds of time cost to consider: in terms of lost resources, and in terms of lost distance. The cost in resource acquisition, however, is already taken into account in the prior calculation. The cost in distance acquisition, while seemingly important, is in fact, not worth considering, because you gain the same distance regardless of whether a mission succeeds or fails.

So none of these objections have any weight. I concede that if you no longer care about resources, there's no benefit to having a merchant on a resources mission, but that's just common sense. In every other case, which is all the time until you're in the Pincers and maxed all upgrades, you should definitely have a merchant on all your missions.
Posted Image

#2598
Urza285
[ Display Name History ]

Urza285

    Ice Giant Melter

  • Members
  • 4,133 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Michigan
  • Joined:7 August 2004
  • RuneScape Status:P2P
  • RSN:Urza285
  • RSN2:Urza285
  • Clan:Looking: com/skiller
Oh god please spare us. If you want to discuss this that in depth and with such strength, conviction and point-driven evidence please by all means go to the meta-game sub forum. I hate seeking people go all "TL;DR" but when faced with such a serious in-depth post with such conviction such as that I can't help, but to ask for it. We are playing a minigame... There is a level of novelty here that should not be passed.

Edit: and sady I had to even go to dictionary.com to make sure I was using the right word when making the statement about the novelty of ports. It's like some of societies "unspoken" rules... Just don't do it!



Maxed [February 14, 2012] | Completionist [October 25, 2012] | Trimmed Completionist [In Progress]

Visit my Blog!


u_rza.png


#2599
Thorgmir
[ Display Name History ]

Thorgmir

    Goblin Armour

  • Members
  • 145 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Joined:17 April 2011
  • RuneScape Status:P2P
  • RSN:Grate Scot
Just to add more specifics to my previous post, I modeled this and found that using a sample size of 100 missions (roughly 2/3 of what it takes to advance from the Bowl to the Pincers), an average mission requirement of 16000, and an average loss of 1800 "skill points" from adding a merchant (roughly a level 8 Bowl crew member, and assuming you get no morale boost from the merchant), you will come out ahead in jade 99.7% of the time by using a merchant, by an average of 3085 jade over the course of the hundred missions (assuming 250 jade reward/mission and 90% success rate without a merchant). The 95% CI is from 975 extra jade to 5025 extra jade. You definitely do not need thousands of missions to be sure of improved results.
Posted Image

#2600
jayc3399
[ Display Name History ]

jayc3399

    Hobgoblin Killer

  • Members
  • 1,618 posts

Oh god please spare us. If you want to discuss this that in depth and with such strength, conviction and point-driven evidence please by all means go to the meta-game sub forum. I hate seeking people go all "TL;DR" but when faced with such a serious in-depth post with such conviction such as that I can't help, but to ask for it. We are playing a minigame... There is a level of novelty here that should not be passed.

Edit: and sady I had to even go to dictionary.com to make sure I was using the right word when making the statement about the novelty of ports. It's like some of societies "unspoken" rules... Just don't do it!


Too be honest I found this quite interesting and I might change my strategy for ports now. I appriciate the evidence to support his claim.

Archermanme.png
Quest Cape Achieved on November 14, 2007

Iron_Archer.png

Items Acquired

Crystal Pick and Hatchet

Berzerker Ring x 3

3/28 Barrows Items





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users