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11-Dec-2012 - Player-Owned Ports


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#3121
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For slayer, as everything is multi now, you can just be in continuous combat all the time. And as said earlier, why the f would you even be using it for slayer? Pop armor doesn't have to be universally the best armor everywhere, or even anywhere.

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#3122
Fallstar
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Why not.

I miss the time when higher level gear was just straight up better. Now they have to attach all these caveats to it because they're scared they might cause Nex gear to drop in price. It's been two years. It's about time we got something that was absolutely superior to Nex gear in every way.

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#3123
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Why not.

I miss the time when higher level gear was just straight up better. Now they have to attach all these caveats to it because they're scared they might cause Nex gear to drop in price. It's been two years. It's about time we got something that was absolutely superior to Nex gear in every way.

Sure, i agree with everything you've said. The only problem with that is that pop gear is just way too easy to obtain(no gp needed, very little real-life time needed). I'm to the opinion that the usefulness of equipment should mostly arise from how difficult it is to obtain, and with that in mind, there is a perfect balance between pop and nex gear. Making pop equipment better would be a major imbalance and render some very recent ultra-high level content much, much less useful.

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#3124
Sumpta
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^ That argument can be turned around just as easily. Making pop equipement heavily outclassed by nex gear renders the whole effort a bit... pointless. I don't need the armour to be better than nex's, but I'd like to get *some* use out of it.

Don't get me wrong, I love POP, but I'm not seeing much use in continuing it, aside from the fun part. Not too long from now, when I have all the stories done, all the upgrades and buildings, there will be very little left to draw me to my port. This wasn't a small update to the game: it was highly anticipated, it was well developped, it was one of the few that was received very positively by a player base that usually finds fault in everything... but it'll be dead as can be within months after its release.

#3125
Yoko Kurama
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I agree entirely with Fallstar.

As to the question of PoP armours being too easy, I say ridiculous. It takes several months of careful planning, waiting, mental investment -- which are all hard enough, but you also have to have certain requisite skills which are by no means easy. They might be easy in this era, but when I got 90 crafting/smithing, they most certainly were not. RS should have always been this way, and it once was(when the best stuff was available through skilling, not through the tyranny of luck). I see absolutely nothing wrong with that trend.

As for PoP being better, it should be. Not only is that the way things have historically been, but the whole point of EoC was that higher level armours would be better than lower level armours (this trend was underlined even more when they added an exponential curve). There is no sane reason that I can as to why Nex should be better. Furthermore, not only is Nex better, but as things currently stand, PoP is sort of useless for a great deal of things.

The only discernible reason that I can see as to why they have launched this crusade to artificially keep Nex the best way past its due date is because they are worried (or were lobbied by) the same bunch of richcat parasites that stand around all day doing nothing but hosting H/C while whining that their multi-billion dollar banks must only be allowed to increase, never decrease. Thus, if Nex armours, after a sufficient and healthy time are superseded by stronger armour, well, that just can't be allowed to happen! Our parasitic friends might actually lose some paltry millions that way.

#3126
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^ That argument can be turned around just as easily. Making pop equipement heavily outclassed by nex gear renders the whole effort a bit... pointless. I don't need the armour to be better than nex's, but I'd like to get *some* use out of it.

Don't get me wrong, I love POP, but I'm not seeing much use in continuing it, aside from the fun part. Not too long from now, when I have all the stories done, all the upgrades and buildings, there will be very little left to draw me to my port. This wasn't a small update to the game: it was highly anticipated, it was well developped, it was one of the few that was received very positively by a player base that usually finds fault in everything... but it'll be dead as can be within months after its release.

Until everyone who can obtain pop armor can also obtain nex gear, pop armor isn't useless. Money doesn't grow on trees, y'know, and thus pop armor is a very acceptable replacement for nex gear for where you need the defense- it also has MORE defense and more LP. You also need to consider the fact that the first set of pop gear is hardest to obtain- after that, it's basically no effort at all for a replacement. Not only does nex gear cost alot, it also doesn't allow you to use that money anywhere else that would be productive, and the set prices always have a general downtrend, so realistically, you are bleeding loads of money with those(and god forbid should you lose it...). Pop is a one time effort, basically, and is VERY close in terms of usefulness- ~3% DPS vs some defense. I also think some people are forgetting that pop will be a decent moneymaker for quite some time.

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#3127
Barney.S
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I actually like the trend of higher tier armours being only good in certain situations. This is where RS has been heading for ages now, EOC just brought a new era of it. Someone made the point of missing the time where highest tier armour was best everywhere.... That was true in RSC where you could mage/range and melee in rune armour. Since RS2 rolled around this has changed and it should continue you change and I think if you want to keep playing you have to embrace that change.

Yeah sure, POP will degrade like crazy in combat - so what. I get gear that I can hunt nex in without any money invested. That pretty much makes up for all that. And time spent in POP - give me a break. After you reach bowl the maximum time you spend in POP is 3x a day, at a maximum of 30min altogether. If this is a significant time investment for you then RS is not your game indeed.

Also, after you reach pincers trade goods will start rolling in. To whoever said POP is pretty much dead now with the degration times being as it is. Way to go into hyperspace mode, armours is a small piece of POP that I like, scrimshaws are a much more interesting piece of content which I can see myself using continuously.

tl:dr - POP armour degration is not that big of a deal since you will get a metric f*ckton of trade resources in pincers.

#3128
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^ That argument can be turned around just as easily. Making pop equipement heavily outclassed by nex gear renders the whole effort a bit... pointless. I don't need the armour to be better than nex's, but I'd like to get *some* use out of it.

Don't get me wrong, I love POP, but I'm not seeing much use in continuing it, aside from the fun part. Not too long from now, when I have all the stories done, all the upgrades and buildings, there will be very little left to draw me to my port. This wasn't a small update to the game: it was highly anticipated, it was well developped, it was one of the few that was received very positively by a player base that usually finds fault in everything... but it'll be dead as can be within months after its release.

Until everyone who can obtain pop armor can also obtain nex gear, pop armor isn't useless. Money doesn't grow on trees, y'know, and thus pop armor is a very acceptable replacement for nex gear for where you need the defense- it also has MORE defense and more LP. You also need to consider the fact that the first set of pop gear is hardest to obtain- after that, it's basically no effort at all for a replacement. Not only does nex gear cost alot, it also doesn't allow you to use that money anywhere else that would be productive, and the set prices always have a general downtrend, so realistically, you are bleeding loads of money with those(and god forbid should you lose it...). Pop is a one time effort, basically, and is VERY close in terms of usefulness- ~3% DPS vs some defense. I also think some people are forgetting that pop will be a decent moneymaker for quite some time.


Moneymaker how?
As you said yourself, there's no desire for a set that's worse than Nex. It isn't "necessary" anywhere.
The only way people would use it in combat situations is if it costs about as much as Nex gear to maintain, which means the entire set should cost between 2-10M. I'm sorry, but no one high level (which, as most of us probably forgot, is a requirement to even enjoy this content) is gonna invest oodles of time for something worth so little.

Spices aren't even worth 4k each at the moment and scrimshaws barely sell for 2M.

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#3129
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Not only was the tradeable set doomed from the beginning, but the idiotic degrade time makes it *completely* useless. No sane high level will spend months on this for an armour that lasts an incredibly small amount of time(one post on the RSOF said that their tetsu went to 0, in the same time his Virtus only lost 9%) with defenses that are not needed anywhere. We might as well all grab Barrows sets. We were promised High Level gear that would be the best in the game, not some ridiculous troll-joke that we find out (after 2 months!) was really just some cosmetic stuff.

#3130
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^ That argument can be turned around just as easily. Making pop equipement heavily outclassed by nex gear renders the whole effort a bit... pointless. I don't need the armour to be better than nex's, but I'd like to get *some* use out of it.

Don't get me wrong, I love POP, but I'm not seeing much use in continuing it, aside from the fun part. Not too long from now, when I have all the stories done, all the upgrades and buildings, there will be very little left to draw me to my port. This wasn't a small update to the game: it was highly anticipated, it was well developped, it was one of the few that was received very positively by a player base that usually finds fault in everything... but it'll be dead as can be within months after its release.

Until everyone who can obtain pop armor can also obtain nex gear, pop armor isn't useless. Money doesn't grow on trees, y'know, and thus pop armor is a very acceptable replacement for nex gear for where you need the defense- it also has MORE defense and more LP. You also need to consider the fact that the first set of pop gear is hardest to obtain- after that, it's basically no effort at all for a replacement. Not only does nex gear cost alot, it also doesn't allow you to use that money anywhere else that would be productive, and the set prices always have a general downtrend, so realistically, you are bleeding loads of money with those(and god forbid should you lose it...). Pop is a one time effort, basically, and is VERY close in terms of usefulness- ~3% DPS vs some defense. I also think some people are forgetting that pop will be a decent moneymaker for quite some time.


Moneymaker how?
As you said yourself, there's no desire for a set that's worse than Nex. It isn't "necessary" anywhere.
The only way people would use it in combat situations is if it costs about as much as Nex gear to maintain, which means the entire set should cost between 2-10M. I'm sorry, but no one high level (which, as most of us probably forgot, is a requirement to even enjoy this content) is gonna invest oodles of time for something worth so little.

Spices aren't even worth 4k each at the moment and scrimshaws barely sell for 2M.

How exactly do you invest loads of time? It takes a minute to put 2 boats under way for 8 hours, for a total of 3 times every day. So yeah, 3 minutes a day. And for that you will have a steady dribble of resources coming in, resources that will make for sell-able items(armor, scrimshaws and soup).

As said earlier, the money used for repairs, when used right, is actually still very low for pop armor. What most people don't understand, however, is how much money it costs to own high priced non-discontinued equipment. You can lose it when you die(DC). You can't use the money to merch. The price will always steadily decrease. An update can make you lose a ton. That's alot of things to consider even before we get to the price- and really, you need the whole set with gloves and boots to make a significant difference, and the gloves and boots are atleast as expensive as the other parts. Pop armor is extremely good for how much effort it takes to obtain it.

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#3131
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A) With the way that gravestone operates nowadays, the problem of death is a joke and non-existent. Unless you happen to walk (with multi-toggle set) into a cabal of Pkers waiting for you in the Wildy, chances are you aren't going to lose your precious Nex set.

B) All tradeable items eventually crash, that is a risk you assume as buyer, so Nex functions as it is intended to be. PoP does not. It isn't the best armour in the game (as it was promised to be), nor does it last 12 hours (as it still claims to do so). Therefore, we PoP'ers have a right to complain about false advertisement and deceit; Nex armour users do not.

C) Your argument that it(PoP) is extremely good might be at least be conceivable if PoP functioned how it purports, to lasts 12 hours (no one in RS imagined that to mean "significantly less than, or only a small part, of those 12 hours"). The time factor is simply not dismissible no matter how hard you try. That PoP apparently degrades after one trip of KK is pathetic. No "ifs, ands, or buts".

Edit:

So even if we assume that your argument is perfectly sound, it is still completely irrelevant and the wrong argument to be having. You are arguing that PoP is too good for what you perceive to be limited effort to obtain it. We are claiming that Jagex promised us certain things and have failed to deliver them. If you wish to respond to that by claiming, "Well, that's a ridiculous thing for Jagex to have promised you", then to that we would respond "Well, they shouldn't have made a promise that they would not keep, upon the basis of which they lured us into this activity, and extracted P2P service revenue from many of us, who were losing interest until they implemented PoP."

#3132
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Moneymaker how?
As you said yourself, there's no desire for a set that's worse than Nex. It isn't "necessary" anywhere.
The only way people would use it in combat situations is if it costs about as much as Nex gear to maintain, which means the entire set should cost between 2-10M. I'm sorry, but no one high level (which, as most of us probably forgot, is a requirement to even enjoy this content) is gonna invest oodles of time for something worth so little.

Spices aren't even worth 4k each at the moment and scrimshaws barely sell for 2M.

How exactly do you invest loads of time? It takes a minute to put 2 boats under way for 8 hours, for a total of 3 times every day. So yeah, 3 minutes a day. And for that you will have a steady dribble of resources coming in, resources that will make for sell-able items(armor, scrimshaws and soup).

As said earlier, the money used for repairs, when used right, is actually still very low for pop armor. What most people don't understand, however, is how much money it costs to own high priced non-discontinued equipment. You can lose it when you die(DC). You can't use the money to merch. The price will always steadily decrease. An update can make you lose a ton. That's alot of things to consider even before we get to the price- and really, you need the whole set with gloves and boots to make a significant difference, and the gloves and boots are atleast as expensive as the other parts. Pop armor is extremely good for how much effort it takes to obtain it.

You're underselling the time and effort that will be needed for this. First, after all upgrades are done the only voyages worth considering are the trade good voyages and MAYBE the 25k xp voyages. Let's be generous and say you can find a plate voyage a day along with maybe bones and spices. We'll even assume 100% success. That's still 40 days of visiting port to make a full tetsu set in addition to what bones, spices and other armor items you can pull in.

If you visit three times a day, that's teleport to Port Sarim, go to the port, go through the voyage results (maybe do randoms though they're nerfed pretty bad now), reroll voyages to get trade goods, set up ships for sail. It seems a tad longer than two to three minutes. Even then that's two to three times a day for 40 days. Players of that high a level might be expecting a million per day return on investment. Considering you get that from the few moments of Slayer shopping, seaweed, and buying jewelry and shards on GE, it's not that high an expectation.

Now, making that armor is bound to be easier than trying to mine the level 78 armor from the Forinthy dungeon revenants (not sure, never tried it). Those armor have better stats and 10 sets sell for less than PoP armor (except statius). I would hope Jagex improves the system of ports to match effort with reward. As said, people really like this mini-game. Hate to think a poorly thought out tradeable armor and scrimshaw system combined with the faster than normal degrading effect ruins all that well received good will.

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#3133
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Plus the number of 90 skills required to obtain all of the PoP sets is a significantly more stringent requirement than getting a set of void and a royal crossbow for Nex.

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#3134
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It should also be noted that first you have to make it to the Pincers, you also have to gather scrolls (you don't get the opportunity, a scroll voyage, everyday, and when you do get them you often fail them, or have to select them at the cost of relinquishing a storyline mission or a trade good voyage). Some days, you only get 1 Adventurer. Then after you have gotten the scrolls, and even completed the storyline missions, you end up with, assuming you used FOTS(and it did +10% not -10%) and a Merchant, you should have 141 Plates, 106 Lacquer/Chi. That still means you have to hunt the rest down in sets of 5, which is potentially another few months if you add up everything. PoP is most certainly no cakewalk.

#3135
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Can someone make a resource gain calculator?
So then I can see if its usefull to use FOTS or not as its only a 10% boost.

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#3136
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A calculator? Would it not be simple enough to simply do it yourself, mathematically, on a normal calculator?

#3137
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A calculator? Would it not be simple enough to simply do it yourself, mathematically, on a normal calculator?


Ehum... I do not know the order and I mess that up easily. Just for convenience sake =S.

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#3138
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Can someone make a resource gain calculator?
So then I can see if its usefull to use FOTS or not as its only a 10% boost.


"x*1.1="

There is your calculator for FOTS type it into google or a calculator replacing x with the resource number.

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#3139
Yoko Kurama
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@ Sly, so how would, or in what order, would FOTS and Merchant be applied?

#3140
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Can someone make a resource gain calculator?
So then I can see if its usefull to use FOTS or not as its only a 10% boost.


"x*1.1="

There is your calculator for FOTS type it into google or a calculator replacing x with the resource number.


I also meant in combination with merchant and perhaps even totems.

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