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Runescape Dying? [Discussion/Observation]


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#61
Bxpprod
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A perfect example of people not knowing what they want and then not being happy when they do get what they think they want.

OSRS is exactly what the EoC haters wanted. Both Jagex and OSRS supporters knew exactly what was going to happen. You don't like it? Tough.

The amount of baseless conjecture and opinion construed as fact in this thread is laughable at best.

*Insert popcorn gif here*


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#62
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I still don't get the fuzz about the EOC, sure, it has it flaws, and sure, I like the old system more. But is it really that bad? I adapted to the situation, just as I learned to work with the NIS. I'm a very stubborn oldschooler with enormous pink nostalgia glasses, but I really enjoy the game now, and I guess that without these updates, RuneScape's life would end very soon.


No one wants to relearn combat. You need combat for most aspects of the game. I have many friends who have quit in the past because of controversial updates and always eventually come back. But EoC is different, they do come back and try runescape out and find it unplayable. Where as old controversial updates like restricted trade didn't have that affect on them.


It's not that different, I momentum everything. Besides actually using magic and ranged weaponry instead of just meleeing everything, nothing really changed. I do agree PVP changed, but as I've never been a PVPer, it didn't affect me. I too had to adapt, and I too felt the EOC and the NIS were forced upon me, and I hated it. But I learned to live with it and change my way of playing. If you are a nonPVPer, chances are most likely that anyone can adapt, as I am VERY stubborn and even I adapted. :)

I do agree that the implementation of the EOC could have been better, a lot better. We are about a year further and there still are tweaks, some that change everything on a large scale.
Also, I know that it is very hard for a new player to cope with the game. There is just TOO MUCH thrown at you when starting a new character, even when you are a veteran player. I tried it with a new F2P-pure, you simply run in too many different things, which makes everything confusing.

#63
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A perfect example of people not knowing what they want and then not being happy when they do get what they think they want.

OSRS is exactly what the EoC haters wanted. Both Jagex and OSRS supporters knew exactly what was going to happen. You don't like it? Tough.

The amount of baseless conjecture and opinion construed as fact in this thread is laughable at best.

*Insert popcorn gif here*

2007scape was a poor knee-jerk reaction to a large number of people hating the EOC, a lot of people thought 2007scape would be perfect but you definitely needed rose-tinted glasses to not see the massive flaws with the game back then.
I still believe it was always a loud minority complaining about things like claws/korasis/effigies, just hordes of people didn't want the EOC, so threw their voices in with them for a version of runescape that was anything but the EOC, there was no option for don't force this unworkable expensive mess on us.
2007 was seen as such a golden period as it was in the time just before free trade was taken away, you then had 4 years of people thinking how much better it was back then + tons of people quitting at that point. Introducing EOC is probably as dramatic or more than that 2007 event, I and many others had been completely happy with the game up that point, updates had always been at worst slighty overpowered but playable around (it took more work to get turmoil or overloads or chaotics, but still completely doable for example) to feel like the same game. The EOC has killed off all but the hardcore fans who have no real interest in PVP (I am sure many who returned for free trade will have quit again).

I know it would have been a kick in the teeth for Jagex to admit that a lot of people did not want the EOC update that so much money and time was spent on making, but this was a huge reason behind people voting for 2007scape, it was a vote against EOC, rather than a vote for this is the best version of the game ever.

I have noted a lot of the arguments in support of the EOC, are sure it has changed, you just need to get used to it, oh right pvp does suck but the rest of the game is playable/relearnable.
PVP was the main reason for a LOT of people playing, these people do not want to learn how to play again just to be able to go bossing, they didn't want to go bossing back when they knew how to do it all, why would they want to now?
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#64
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Even if JaGeX close shop tomorrow, RuneScape would have had a good run. Remember, this game started its life competing against the likes of Asheron's Call and Dark Age of Camelot, yet ends up spending majority of it as the #2 subscription-based MMO in the world, second only to WoW.

The market is changing and the subscription-based model is dying out. Even the juggernaut Blizzard couldn't stop WoW from bleeding half its subscribers in the past year. They even gave up, junked, and restart their new MMO project, Titan, to redo it as a micro-transaction based game.

So enjoy the run while you still can. Personally, I think JaGeX still is guiding RuneScape in the right direction. Even if it doesn't end up saving the game, their guidance should at least give it another couple of years of life left. I'm hazarded to say that most people that say "XXX update are ruining the game" are simply trying to rationalize why they have stop enjoying it as much as they had.

No game lasts forever; nor should games be played forever; It is old. Even if the developer didn't misstep, Runescape will still decline, simply because tastes has shifted, the world has changes, and the players are getting older.
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#65
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The only argument I can have towards the game dying, is that it doesn't have the same "umph" with the updates as they used to. This may or may not be to do with how the company has changed since I started playing.
I think it's more that when I was younger, I was mystified and engrossed by the game and the community. Though now that I'm a bit older I expect a much, much larger realm of fantasy.


I agree 100%. I don't get that excitement out of it as much as I used to.

Since i've been active again on the game (2 months ago)... i've noticed the tremendous drop in online activity as well. quite sad because us veterans can't keep this game running. We need teenagers to take our spots.
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#66
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@Loyal_Fisher, Jagex is desperately trying to get a wave of younger players to join. They want another mini-clip generation that a lot of us were part of. They pushed EoC as a way to get those new players at risk of pissing off the veteran players. Unfortunately a large amount of veteran players quit and never came back and Jagex didn't get the wave of new players they were hoping for.

I don't know if Runescape is dying (since I've seen people talk about how its dying since 05) but I do know that it has been in decline for a long time and that it has gotten progressively less populated since EoC. As for me, if 07 player populations drop below a critical mass, something like less then 3-5k players online at any given time I may quit but until then I will personally stay a runescaper.

#67
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Just going to give the reason why I quit, I know a lot of people feel the same way, but a lot of people don't and can respect that.

EOC completely killed all forms of pures, or alternative ways of playing 'competitively'. One of the greatest things in runescape was that you didn't have to focus on just max skill total, you could work on making an account designed just for pvp. When starting a new account to pvp/play with the day before EOC's release you could have chosen:

Turmoil Berserker, Turmoil hybrid, 43 /52 pray berserker, 52 pray hybrid, 40 defense hybrid, 33 defense turmoil pure, chaotic/godsword/whip/dragon of the previous, barrows pure/hybrid, cannon pure, range 1 def pure, hybrid 1 def pure, melee 1 def pure at all different levels, 1 pray pure, 1 pray main, obby pure, cvls pure, 20 defense pvp equip pure, rune gloves pure, range tank, arma storm tank, summoning tank, summoning pure, obby tank, low str high att/def veracer, iban pure, 10 hp dbow pure, dfs pure, sara sword pure, 11 pray mage pure, d claw rush pure, korasis pure, 99hp summ pure, poly staff pure,gmaul pure, black mask slayer pure and so many many many more unique accounts and challenges to work and play with.



After EOC's release you have:

Range/Mage/Melee.
Not that it really matters as people will only ever fight if you are using the same style. Your levels don't matter and your equipment does nothing unique.

I kept with EOC for a good 3 months after its release, and hated it.




Also as for Solomon's store, that was exactly how it should have been done, the SOF should never have existed.


Indeed, it's horrible.

Whilst the EOC was planned to make combat more diverse the only thing it did was completely kill PVP and make it bland. I still play EOC, in the hopes that everything PVP will become alive again but looking at the responses here we are but evil scum.

Ah well, maybe things don't affect you now and you don't care untill they change your favourite part of the game. I like a plethora of things to do in Runescape, it's a shame some aspects are just gone now.
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#68
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V O R K, the reason why a lot of the RuneScape population views PVPers as scum because most of them were constantly claiming that they were the most important aspect of the game and entitled everything to themselves. They were the vocal minority complaining every day on RSOF since 2007, and because of that, I do understand that a lot of people can't stand the PVPers.

#69
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Lovely community we have. :(
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#70
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Not to mention that members of the PVP community took part in RWT and botting a lot more than the rest of the community did.

#71
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A perfect example of people not knowing what they want and then not being happy when they do get what they think they want.

OSRS is exactly what the EoC haters wanted. Both Jagex and OSRS supporters knew exactly what was going to happen. You don't like it? Tough.

The amount of baseless conjecture and opinion construed as fact in this thread is laughable at best.

*Insert popcorn gif here*


The only baseless conjecture and opinion construed as fact that I've seen so far in this thread is your post - everyone else on both sides is at least explaining their observations instead of making generic comments with nothing to back them up.

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#72
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Not to mention that members of the PVP community took part in RWT and botting a lot more than the rest of the community did.


Mmm between the whining and claiming to be the heart of the game (laughable even before the free-trade removal categorically proved the game could go on without em) and the view of 'I only want to pk therefore it is ok to bot my stats on a new pure and rwt to get him gear' that dominated the public stage of what PVPers are ruined them.

Not to mention the far too prevalent bser style eg targetting abyss rcers on purpose, having a whole clan pile a lone agility trainer or clue hunter then acting all the big I am about how they 'owned' you - shockingly yes 50 people in full armour will kill an un-geared solo person quite easily thats not skill. And I know agility, clue, etc you take the risk but there's just sort of the attitude thing: It's one thing for a lone or duo pker to come across these people a slay on or two, its a whole other ballpark when entire clans pile a single ungeared dot as if they expect something more than 5 seconds and no drops from it or when you purposefully camp out just to slaughter un-geared skillers that drop next to nothing.

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#73
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A perfect example of people not knowing what they want and then not being happy when they do get what they think they want.

OSRS is exactly what the EoC haters wanted. Both Jagex and OSRS supporters knew exactly what was going to happen. You don't like it? Tough.

The amount of baseless conjecture and opinion construed as fact in this thread is laughable at best.

*Insert popcorn gif here*


The only baseless conjecture and opinion construed as fact that I've seen so far in this thread is your post - everyone else on both sides is at least explaining their observations instead of making generic comments with nothing to back them up.


I like to think its them in denial that the game is going down the shitter.



Not to mention that members of the PVP community took part in RWT and botting a lot more than the rest of the community did.


Mmm between the whining and claiming to be the heart of the game (laughable even before the free-trade removal categorically proved the game could go on without em) and the view of 'I only want to pk therefore it is ok to bot my stats on a new pure and rwt to get him gear' that dominated the public stage of what PVPers are ruined them.


I dont think you should be attacking people like that because they play how they enjoy playing. If Jagex random f'ed up all your work. You would be disapointed too.

The community is the heart of the game, yet they are cutting them off one by one. Thats alarming in its own right. What doesnt help is people like you putting them down one by one, it doesnt help the game nor does it even effect you anyway. Before and after updates such as EoC.

Not all PVPer botted, Not all RWT. You get that in every style of play you see. They were forced to be focal to try and regain the game they enjoyed its as simple as that.

#74
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PvP was dying long before the EoC came out. The blows that it was dealt beforehand came too fast for anything to be built up as safe alternatives for PvP increased. Loot was one of the main draws to keep the community growing, and that only got worse and worse as years went on.

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#75
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Not to mention that members of the PVP community took part in RWT and botting a lot more than the rest of the community did.


Mmm between the whining and claiming to be the heart of the game (laughable even before the free-trade removal categorically proved the game could go on without em) and the view of 'I only want to pk therefore it is ok to bot my stats on a new pure and rwt to get him gear' that dominated the public stage of what PVPers are ruined them.


I dont think you should be attacking people like that because they play how they enjoy playing. If Jagex random f'ed up all your work. You would be disapointed too.

The community is the heart of the game, yet they are cutting them off one by one. Thats alarming in its own right. What doesnt help is people like you putting them down one by one, it doesnt help the game nor does it even effect you anyway. Before and after updates such as EoC.

Not all PVPer botted, Not all RWT. You get that in every style of play you see. They were forced to be focal to try and regain the game they enjoyed its as simple as that.


No-one was attacking anyone for how they liked to play.
We were just commenting on the image PvPers as a whole have managed to obtain and how it came about.

Yes given the removal of free trade and wildy complaints were to be expected, but complaints are one thing. The purposeful spamming (single users trying to fill entire pages of forum with threads), trumped up claims (pkers being the heart of the game) and in-game actions purposefully trying to disrupt other areas of the game in a destructive way (eg clogging up pipes at agility courses) are another ballpark and what did a large portion of the damage to the reputation of the group. The damage to the reputation is something that did them no favours as it both put off potential new pvpers and lost them much sympathy from the community as a whole making it harder to fight their case on future issues.

As for EoC and ending pvp entirely, as Kimberly pointed out it was dead well before then and in reality EoC gives a hell of a lot of what pvpers were asking for the reason it didn't see a revival comes down to two factors (aside from initial eoc issues) firstly being 'stuck in their ways' a refusing to learn the EoC and secondly outright greed making it 'not worth it' because everyone used welfare gear and, despite using that gear themselves, they did not like that there were no good drops.

Besides I wouldn't call Pvp an entirely dead horse yet, warbands have proven some interest still remains and it is known Jagex have a PvP world project in the works that could have an impact.

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#76
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PvP was dying long before the EoC came out. The blows that it was dealt beforehand came too fast for anything to be built up as safe alternatives for PvP increased. Loot was one of the main draws to keep the community growing, and that only got worse and worse as years went on.


I find it odd in a period where money making ha become easier heavy PvP players aren't "Risking it for the biscuit". But I guess that comes to the mind set of the player, which includes their age. When we are young we don't value things as much anymore, but when we lose something we treated a throwaway item we become upset. Very different as we get older. A dollar is something very different to me than my 13 year old brother. Every time I go to the store for something important (like dish washing detergent, or laundry items) he asks for a candy bar. He assumes I just have the money for a $1 candy, then asks "Really? I can't have a candy bar?" as if I'm being selfish. What he doesn't understand is that while I may have $1, it isn't for candy; I don't have that money to spare, especially when I don't work. And I think we tend to translate that into things we do. since the game is mostly held by older players, you get causal PvP'er who know they can easily make the money for higher end gear but don't even when they have enough time in the world to do it. Younger players see this and think "I don't have to go all out" and fight in Batwing...

In comment to learning a new combat style, I find that just as odd. I've had plenty of associates quit because of EOC because "Combat is too hard" only to come back and say it is much easier than they thought. I've had one come back and try PvP and become good at it. We have plenty of fansites with people who take the time to examine just about every update jagex has done, and we see it on the forum all the time. "Old School player coming back" thread asking what gear do they need and how abilities work. And they get pretty good answer to find it really isn't that bad. Granted there are some players who really just do not understand combat in RS3 and some who just outright prefer OSRS. But like 999134th said, they are a vocal minority. They rest are really just lazy, who don't want to take the time to do a bit of research, which involves a simple post on somewhere like here...it is as if they don't know how or want to use the search function on the forums for related topics

I feel as if I'm gonna get a "I shouldn't have to fish for information" reply, to which I counter with this: if you going to cook a chicken meal with no idea of how to do it, don't you ask someone who does know how, or try to look up the information before doing so?
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#77
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The community is the heart of the game, yet they are cutting them off one by one. Thats alarming in its own right.


You make it sound as if they are just randomly telling groups of people "no, you can't play anymore, sorry".


I find it odd in a period where money making ha become easier heavy PvP players aren't "Risking it for the biscuit". But I guess that comes to the mind set of the player, which includes their age. When we are young we don't value things as much anymore, but when we lose something we treated a throwaway item we become upset. Very different as we get older. A dollar is something very different to me than my 13 year old brother. Every time I go to the store for something important (like dish washing detergent, or laundry items) he asks for a candy bar. He assumes I just have the money for a $1 candy, then asks "Really? I can't have a candy bar?" as if I'm being selfish. What he doesn't understand is that while I may have $1, it isn't for candy; I don't have that money to spare, especially when I don't work. And I think we tend to translate that into things we do. since the game is mostly held by older players, you get causal PvP'er who know they can easily make the money for higher end gear but don't even when they have enough time in the world to do it. Younger players see this and think "I don't have to go all out" and fight in Batwing...


The way I see it, this is telling of how poorly implemented pvp in Runescape is. Upgrading from Bandos to Torva will give you what, 10% boost to 'survivability' while the cost jumps 2000%. On death, you lose everything. Disconnections are a very real threat (much more than they should be) and in a pvp situation will almost always mean your death. And on top of all this, the focus on Runescape pvp is the drops. Compared to a game like Dark Souls where the pvp reward is the challenging gameplay against competent enemies, Runescape pvp is (in my opinion) a miserable cocktail of stuns, overhead prayers and boring ability rotations (pre-eoc pvp was even worse with the only dynamic element being special attacks and item switching). In short, good gear might as well not exist in pvp, the system is far too unforgiving of death as well as being relatively unstable, and the actual gameplay is so dull that relatively few do pvp for the fun of it, as can be seen in the emptiness of the free for all clanwars portal.

Tl;dr: Armor's ability to protect you scales linearly, while it's price increases exponentially. Your goal in pvp is to profit from killing your opponent, but so is his, so you both end up using armor of which you have hundreds of sets.

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#78
999134
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The community is the heart of the game, yet they are cutting them off one by one. Thats alarming in its own right.


You make it sound as if they are just randomly telling groups of people "no, you can't play anymore, sorry".

As I have said in my post, this is exactly what they did to everyone who played on pures or anything other than standard main pking.

You are actively punished in EOC for hybriding, what previously was the most highly skilled fast paced combat possible, got completely wiped out.

And pre-EOC your armor mattered HUGELY, someone in full torva and a divine could happily skull and kill rune users with almost no risk of death, the almost being balanced as if he did die from bad luck vs dh/ags hits or a disconnect there would be a massive loss.
Now there is no incentive to bring that divine and torva, because it does f all compared to barrows.

Also another main reason why tipit is so anti-pkers is that so few proper pkers use this forums. By that I mean people that play the game to pvp, and that is their main focus, I don't know why this is the case, but the pvp sections of TIF got shut down years ago now, after never recovering from free trade ending.
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#79
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The whole adapt or quit thing is very harsh when it comes to the basics and hard work of peoples accounts. Something like the NIS is something you can just adapt to. But when the core of their reason of playing is ripped apart. I think they have every right to protest. Whilst most wont keep it civil. Alot do. And these people are ignored, and also treated with disrespect. The general forum (RSOF) community to me is discusting when it comes to that. Jagex nor Pro-Jagex players dont realise what debates and compromise are. Its very important in keeping the player base healthy in terms of being happy and keeping the actual game in good shape.

EoC to me just wasnt worth it. If Mod Mark wasnt so eager to prove hes a big man. Maybe he would of stepped back and let the players have their input from the start of development to the end. That would of been wise. Tweaks on a forced system just dont cut it.

#80
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The problem was the lack of input players were putting in. EOC didn't have to happen if players were much more constructive in criticism, or it could have been much batter. They saw the update was going to happen and immediately put it down. EOC was forced because Jagex wanted to prove whiners wrong. And as bad as that is, players are as much to blame. It's a two way street. You could say Jagex was ignoring the player base or what have you, but honestly I expected as much when constructive criticism is drowned by "OMFG! THIS [cabbage] SUCKS!" Mod Mark did let players put in input, but the players weren't willing to help. So he sorta punished a lot of people, including those willing to help out. Thus you have you mistakes... Could have been a better update if the community was a bit more positive and willing to actually beta test.
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