Runescape Dying? [Discussion/Observation]

[Estoc]

ive got a feeling we'll be having this discussion again in 2016, heh.

 

You mean later this year?

[Kimberly]

Its main strength is its accessibility as a browser-based game (of which there are increasingly few).

 

Yes, that's its main strength, but there are way more browser based fantasy MMORPGs than there were before. They're not particularly good, but they're there.

 

People such as the Yogscast, PewDiePie, Syndicate could easily have an influence in players.

 

Yogscast actually did a video of him playing through the new RS tutorial. I enjoyed it, he seemed to enjoy it too. Comments section was an atrocious [bleep] fest of jaded ex-players and stupid "veterans".

 

To make it more fun and engaging. This is purely down to the developers to be creative. Jagex could at least of posted a thread saying they wanted players to submit monster mechanic ideas that they were interested in.

 

I think they are trying to add new monster mechanics, but honestly they just don't work when the rest of the world's monsters are just walking punching bags. Take champions for instance. They have cool mechanics in theory (aside from the high spawnrate) but they're really just pushovers. They get no chance to use those tactics. Same thing with the Scutarii. Great idea in theory, but the mechanics for stunning don't work well enough for them to be anything other than a pain in the ass. Etc etc

 

Handling the Eastern Lands as an expansion allows them to do what they conceivably cannot do with the mainland - create a world where everything was made with the design practices they had today, knowing what doesn't work and what does, without any relics from pre-eoc times.

 

Yeah I wouldn't mind a year of updating the current game via small fixes, mini-game reworks, stuff of that sort while they put the bulk of their dev's on an eastern lands expansion. It would be great for the current game as well as growth.

 

But that would be something absolutely massive an honestly, things like skill restructuring/minigame reworking/etc aren't fast fixes or particularly small when done right. Even if they updated every week, 48 chances to update the game throughout the course of a year would probably still not be enough.

 

 

[PolarBearBlue]

If I was being completely honest, I think if they really wanted to go for gaining new strength, Runescape would have been on mobile apps, tablets, and handles a long time ago...

[God Of Lego]

Jagex could at least hire a new team of people dedicated to only balancing runescape at least, expecially with all the Micro Payment money. It would be more wise long term and possible avoid unhappy customers due to lack of content.

[ArtemisCatal]

Yeah I wouldn't mind a year of updating the current game via small fixes, mini-game reworks, stuff of that sort while they put the bulk of their dev's on an eastern lands expansion. It would be great for the current game as well as growth.

 

>.> you mean like "the Year of Upgrades". I'm not sure too many people are still around that remember that time, but after all the craziness and the discontent and everything, someone is back around to requesting one again. It's almost like history repeating itself over and over. The Year of Upgrades was a great idea in theory. In practices, practically no one wanted to play a game for a year with almost no new content. So please, no, NO Year of Upgrades V2.0. You think the player base is bad now, wait until half the player base is bashing jagex for no new content and the other half is basically saying that they are being whiny babies and jagex is not giving them new content "For The Good Of The GAME" and then the other side, every week is like *whine, whine* "we dont care about the game, we want shiny new quest nao!!!" and rinse and repeat every week for a year...

 

I think I'm having flash backs... I think I need a cup of tea and a lie down.

[God Of Lego]

I remember that year... Nothing was really ever upgraded.

[ArtemisCatal]

I remember that year... Nothing was really ever upgraded.

 

Oh, but IMPORTANT things were going on under the hood! Doesn't that satisfy you lust for new content! SOO ungrateful. STOP YOUR WHINING. Don't you even care about the FUTURE OF RUNESCAPE! /s

 

In a more serious note, I'm sure they did a lot of work, optimizing code, stuff the player used ever day but never saw, but it was so.. unsatisfying and caused a lot of rancor in the community. And I don't see anyway to do any kind of no update only upgrades without the upgrades being something the player cant see. Sure they can do graphical reworks and that is all well and good, but I don't think that is exactly what people want either.

 

What I'm saying is the best upgrades are infrastructure upgrades that we wont ever directly be able to see. More than that, it comes too late. Jagex can point at RS now and go, we have particles, and bloom, and this and that all because of the year of upgrades. But the player that quit because of that no content year are not around to hear it. They have to figure out a way to do updates and upgrades. Or do it over the shorter term. Maybe a month of upgrades with a large chunk of content at the end "made possible by our new upgrades under the hood". Or something. The average player *Needs*, like it or not, new content to keep them happy.

[God Of Lego]

You know year of the upgrade was supposed to be revamping dead areas of RuneScape right?

[ArtemisCatal]

http://services.rune...the-scenes-2009

 

• Doing the 'little' jobs that make a big difference (e.g. a 'You are here' arrow on the world map) and basically fixing all the annoying little quirks the game has. Things that may be the least glamorous to work on and talk about, but which really add up.
  
• Updating some of the earliest content/quests to bring it up to date, and take advantage of all the features we have added to the game engine since it was originally created. Also, reworking old clues that no longer work now the game is bigger (e.g. 'Look west of the mountains' was fine when there was only one mountain, but not now).
  
• Making the interfaces as intuitive, flexible and user-friendly as possible.
  
• Then, after all that, we’ll start looking into abandoned and barely used areas/features of the game, and breathing new life into them.
  

 

under the hood update we all benifited from:

http://services.rune...-finding-update

 

In this week’s update, we’ve implemented an extremely frequently-requested improvement to route-finding. This should particularly improve the playability of the game in laggy situations.

 

There was a lot more suppose to be happening than update dead areas.

 

 

edit: user feedback at the time.

http://www.tip.it/runescape/times/view/319-wake-up

 

All of the upgrades this year have made our tasks easier, but now I’m getting bored. This has been labeled the year of upgrades, but did the developers require this much time dedicated to maintenance? Was it not possible to make upgrades and perform maintenance in tandem with writing new, big content? This has been one of the driest years for new content, and I have to wonder if we will ever see the light at the end of this tunnel. At the close of 2009, there will still be an endless list of bugs, glitches, and much-needed improvements to RuneScape. A perfect program is as mythical of a creature as the unicorns and faeries we see in the game.

[God Of Lego]

http://services.rune...the-scenes-2009

 

• Doing the 'little' jobs that make a big difference (e.g. a 'You are here' arrow on the world map) and basically fixing all the annoying little quirks the game has. Things that may be the least glamorous to work on and talk about, but which really add up.
  
• Updating some of the earliest content/quests to bring it up to date, and take advantage of all the features we have added to the game engine since it was originally created. Also, reworking old clues that no longer work now the game is bigger (e.g. 'Look west of the mountains' was fine when there was only one mountain, but not now).
  
• Making the interfaces as intuitive, flexible and user-friendly as possible.
  
• Then, after all that, we’ll start looking into abandoned and barely used areas/features of the game, and breathing new life into them.
  

 

under the hood update we all benifited from:

http://services.rune...-finding-update

 

In this week’s update, we’ve implemented an extremely frequently-requested improvement to route-finding. This should particularly improve the playability of the game in laggy situations.

 

There was a lot more suppose to be happening than update dead areas.

 

 

This was 4 years ago mind. Under the hood updates are needed for now. Not then. And even then. The engine team is completely different from the content team. Im pretty sure any tech updates back then are completely outdated.

 

Not only that. Thats not worth a years declaration of "year of the upgrades" When very little areas of the game were actually brought back to life. Under the hood mechanics happen all the time, rarely announced. If they announce something like that its usualy to cause a more possitive hype.

[Estoc]

Jagex could at least hire a new team of people dedicated to only balancing runescape at least, expecially with all the Micro Payment money. It would be more wise long term and possible avoid unhappy customers due to lack of content.

 

What they need to do is get new players looking at the game, then get them hooked. How many games have you played where you quit because something gave you low xp? How many have you quit because of inflation? These are problems for people who are already established customers, not newbies with a huge world to spend time exploring.

[Ginger_Warrior]

My own experience when I re-joined was that I stuck to activities which I knew from my previous playthrough of the game. But it was very underwhelming knowing that, thanks to lodestones, the tutorial, and a general increase in transportation options, there was no longer a sense of adventure as a "new" character.

 

OK, I was imposing my previous experience of my first few days on my first account onto my second account, that's a fair excuse. But if you use empathy and place yourself into the shoes of a person who has no previous experience of the game, I reckon the tutorial must be very frustrating. Forget working out how to interact with the game by yourself, here's a miniquest which mercilessly and unapologetically shoves all that knowledge down your throat and expects you to regurgitate it verbatim before it lets you leave.

 

There isn't the thrill of locating your way to Varrock to learn how to mine and smith armour, and knowing that however many mistakes you made on the way, ultimately you've made that armour. Now it's just "Oh forget that malarkey, when you could just kill a few cows, collect the hides and buy the armour dirt cheap off the G.E."

[Ammako]

There isn't the thrill of locating your way to Varrock to learn how to mine and smith armour, and knowing that however many mistakes you made on the way, ultimately you've made that armour. Now it's just "Oh forget that malarkey, when you could just kill a few cows, collect the hides and buy the armour dirt cheap off the G.E."

I doubt very many people didn't buy their armour off other players.

Especially considering even Mithril required 68 Smithing to make, and a full set of just Steel still required 48.

[Fallstar]

I wish DIY gameplay had been more encouraged than it actually is. I think I actually felt more accomplished when I made my first set of iron armour from scratch than when I first bought all the Nex sets. It's just you can't really get anywhere with the DIY model unless you're willing to put a hell of a lot more time into the game. And as Pingouin says, there's the scaling issue - generally speaking the gathering and production skills required disproportionately high levels compared to the relevant combat stats. If a more DIY style of play had been encouraged from the start, I think that would have lead to a healthier game - it would make gp less relevant, which would have made several things which were negative to the game less of an issue.

[God Of Lego]

Jagex could at least hire a new team of people dedicated to only balancing runescape at least, expecially with all the Micro Payment money. It would be more wise long term and possible avoid unhappy customers due to lack of content.

 

What they need to do is get new players looking at the game, then get them hooked. How many games have you played where you quit because something gave you low xp? How many have you quit because of inflation? These are problems for people who are already established customers, not newbies with a huge world to spend time exploring.

 

Concidering the player base is at a fast decline. I would advise fixing RuneScape and keeping the players happy. The loss is to fast to catch up with people coming in. Not only that. Its hardly welcoming when they game they enter is currently dead in nearly every town you go to, with minigames that are bearly used and flawed outdated skilling systems such as smithing. Heck. Bringing in people would be marketing anyway. Thats alot different from fixing content.

 

I would feel intimidated and confused first logging into RuneScape to find buthrope its too over done. Lumbridge was perfect and relaxed. You could instantly explore your curiousity and do what you just learnt off tutorial island.

 

As fallstar said, DIY should be encoraged. I also made all my armour from a low level. I loved that. This is also why I feel the GE and Squeel is bad for new players. They can get nearly anything at a click as long as they just won a coinbag on the squeel of fortune. Instantly geared up. Instant coins. Its not that healthy.

 

When I first started playing, I wasnt worried about xp rates, not smithing my own armour. Heck I loved mining bronze and tin just like i learnt on tutorial island. Finding varock was exciting. I even liked making trips back and forth to smelt my bars. I think jagex current way of getting players engaged into the game is to rushed. It needs to let people enjoy what the player feel they like.

 

-

 

Jagex should ask players to fill in a detailed survey on what made them join and what made them stay. Off that they could base a modern tutorial.

 

They could also do the same to see how current players feel about the games health.

[sees_all1]

The interface is still point and click. You can still play it on a relatively low end pc. I don't know what the third point means since you obviously had to learn the game in the first place. And finally, the last holiday event was the simplest one I've seen in years. Literally run around and catch butterflies. Basically what I see is that it's not so much a specific change that put you off, just change in general.

I post an opinion, and you're arguing with me? <_<

[Ammako]

The interface is still point and click. You can still play it on a relatively low end pc. I don't know what the third point means since you obviously had to learn the game in the first place. And finally, the last holiday event was the simplest one I've seen in years. Literally run around and catch butterflies. Basically what I see is that it's not so much a specific change that put you off, just change in general.

I post an opinion, and you're arguing with me? <_<

I don't think that saying the interface isn't point and click is an opinion.

[Low C]

My point was for them to revamp dead content especially the beginning game for new players while the lead dev's work on a huge expansion. I believe that would be the best path to breath new life into the game. I don't want to see the same thing as they did in 2009 as that is completely a different update scheme.

[God Of Lego]

My point was for them to revamp dead content especially the beginning game for new players while the lead dev's work on a huge expansion. I believe that would be the best path to breath new life into the game. I don't want to see the same thing as they did in 2009 as that is completely a different update scheme.

 

I wouldnt mind that.

 

What I would love is for them to do out of the current dev team is organise what their best areas of field are whether its quests or minigames etc. Organise them to what they would be working on throughout a year or 2. Then hire a team dedicated to balancing type content so that it doesnt over run update weeks tomuch. Tweaks would annoy people if released to much instead of actual new updates. Then on from here, hire a team to market runescape. Reaching out to new players. (they probably have that anyway).

 

If they decided to revert EoC to help fix up the mess it left (dead content, namely most pvp based things, minigames, weapons and armour in general, annoyance of having to spam keys just do compete efficently and so on) That could easily appeal to older players that left bringing a decent amount back into the game. Making worlds feel less dead.

 

This would mean they actual invest back into us via micropayments money with the brand new staff dedicated to the balancing and making the game healthy again. Without cutting into current updates as they have done this year. Releasing an update every month would be decent from them.

 

Halving the game worlds would make worlds average around 300-400 people on each world making them look more fuller and apealing. Although people may complain about crampt training spots. Even though years ago worlds were much more competitive anyway.

 

All whilst Mod Osborne leads a team making the first real expansion. The eastern lands.

 

I dont know why I write these things, I just would like RuneScape to be an healthy game again.

[sees_all1]

The interface is still point and click. You can still play it on a relatively low end pc. I don't know what the third point means since you obviously had to learn the game in the first place. And finally, the last holiday event was the simplest one I've seen in years. Literally run around and catch butterflies. Basically what I see is that it's not so much a specific change that put you off, just change in general.

I post an opinion, and you're arguing with me? <_<

I don't think that saying the interface isn't point and click is an opinion.

Then let me re-phrase. In my opinion, in order to play RuneScape 3 you need more than a mouse, which is different than in the past. I also prefer the older version with less keyboard input. Sure, there were the function keys, but they weren't critical to success.

[Ginger_Warrior]

There isn't the thrill of locating your way to Varrock to learn how to mine and smith armour, and knowing that however many mistakes you made on the way, ultimately you've made that armour. Now it's just "Oh forget that malarkey, when you could just kill a few cows, collect the hides and buy the armour dirt cheap off the G.E."

I doubt very many people didn't buy their armour off other players.

Especially considering even Mithril required 68 Smithing to make, and a full set of just Steel still required 48.

A good point, but it doesn't address the argument which was being made. My point wasn't necessarily how players obtain items.

 

My point was that the process of learning the game's mechanics has changed to the point where it's more like hand-holding. In an MMORPG like RuneScape where you've got this massive world and it's ultimately up to you where you're heading, I think you really shouldn't be offered anything more than a gentle push in the right direction. Apart from anything else, if I were a new player in this massive new world, would I really want my hand holding?

 

I'd hope that new players would be only too desperate to go out and try as many things as possible.

 

Either way you look at it, the problem with RuneScape and player numbers isn't really on the retention side, it's actually getting new players through the door long enough to stick around. From that perspective, you're not really looking at the level of "How does this player obtain Mithril armour", you're looking at the players' very first experiences of the game.

[Lord Slayas]

There isn't the thrill of locating your way to Varrock to learn how to mine and smith armour, and knowing that however many mistakes you made on the way, ultimately you've made that armour. Now it's just "Oh forget that malarkey, when you could just kill a few cows, collect the hides and buy the armour dirt cheap off the G.E."

I doubt very many people didn't buy their armour off other players.

Especially considering even Mithril required 68 Smithing to make, and a full set of just Steel still required 48.

A good point, but it doesn't address the argument which was being made. My point wasn't necessarily how players obtain items.

 

My point was that the process of learning the game's mechanics has changed to the point where it's more like hand-holding. In an MMORPG like RuneScape where you've got this massive world and it's ultimately up to you where you're heading, I think you really shouldn't be offered anything more than a gentle push in the right direction. Apart from anything else, if I were a new player in this massive new world, would I really want my hand holding?

 

I'd hope that new players would be only too desperate to go out and try as many things as possible.

 

Either way you look at it, the problem with RuneScape and player numbers isn't really on the retention side, it's actually getting new players through the door long enough to stick around. From that perspective, you're not really looking at the level of "How does this player obtain Mithril armour", you're looking at the players' very first experiences of the game.

 

RuneScape does not make a very good first impression these days, I'm afraid, especially to completely new players.

 

I meet quite a few new players on a weekly basis, and most don't stick with the game for more then a few days at best. Most often I hear complaints about how complicated things are / badly explained and they don't understand it. Combat especially seems to confuse the masses, now. Considering this is in F2P, which is the simplest and easiest form of RuneScape (and i'm talking the very basic, lowest of the low level content here), it's a real issue.

 

It's only gotten worse since the Eoc and new starting areas for F2P. Not saying that Eoc or the new areas were a bad thing (far from it) but they seem to be too overwhelming and not properly explained from the perspective of a first time Rs'er, and this was never a big issue previously.

 

If I was thrown into a game where I didn't really understand what was going on or how to do things, I can't imagine I'd stick around very long either :(

[God Of Lego]

There isn't the thrill of locating your way to Varrock to learn how to mine and smith armour, and knowing that however many mistakes you made on the way, ultimately you've made that armour. Now it's just "Oh forget that malarkey, when you could just kill a few cows, collect the hides and buy the armour dirt cheap off the G.E."

I doubt very many people didn't buy their armour off other players.

Especially considering even Mithril required 68 Smithing to make, and a full set of just Steel still required 48.

A good point, but it doesn't address the argument which was being made. My point wasn't necessarily how players obtain items.

 

My point was that the process of learning the game's mechanics has changed to the point where it's more like hand-holding. In an MMORPG like RuneScape where you've got this massive world and it's ultimately up to you where you're heading, I think you really shouldn't be offered anything more than a gentle push in the right direction. Apart from anything else, if I were a new player in this massive new world, would I really want my hand holding?

 

I'd hope that new players would be only too desperate to go out and try as many things as possible.

 

Either way you look at it, the problem with RuneScape and player numbers isn't really on the retention side, it's actually getting new players through the door long enough to stick around. From that perspective, you're not really looking at the level of "How does this player obtain Mithril armour", you're looking at the players' very first experiences of the game.

 

RuneScape does not make a very good first impression these days, I'm afraid, especially to completely new players.

 

I meet quite a few new players on a weekly basis, and most don't stick with the game for more then a few days at best. Most often I hear complaints about how complicated things are / badly explained and they don't understand it. Combat especially seems to confuse the masses, now. Considering this is in F2P, which is the simplest and easiest form of RuneScape (and i'm talking the very basic, lowest of the low level content here), it's a real issue.

 

It's only gotten worse since the Eoc and new starting areas for F2P. Not saying that Eoc or the new areas were a bad thing (far from it) but they seem to be too overwhelming and not properly explained from the perspective of a first time Rs'er, and this was never a big issue previously.

 

If I was thrown into a game where I didn't really understand what was going on or how to do things, I can't imagine I'd stick around very long either :(

 

Thats what I think of the current tutorial area. I would of rather a modern tutorial island and left that area alone.

 

As for the armour. I always made my own, untill higher levels such as mith. I bought it from the shops. This was 2006 mind. When shops were great.

[Sy_Accursed]

I think runescape would benefit from a more dynamic tutorial system.

 

Like at start you have a very basic brief tutorial introing the concept of skills and moving and friends and such.

Then have tutors that pop up and take you through each skill as you try to use them, maybe even for some skills have tutors re-appear at set levels to explain more advanced concepts.

And deffo have 'members' tutorials that are a bit more in-depth at level 6 of skills that are p2p only and maybe even for the split skills at say level 50+ as soon as you become a member.

 

Also make the first tutorials available via clicking on the skills (left-click if not done, right-click for replay)

[God Of Lego]

I think runescape would benefit from a more dynamic tutorial system.

 

Like at start you have a very basic brief tutorial introing the concept of skills and moving and friends and such.

Then have tutors that pop up and take you through each skill as you try to use them, maybe even for some skills have tutors re-appear at set levels to explain more advanced concepts.

And deffo have 'members' tutorials that are a bit more in-depth at level 6 of skills that are p2p only and maybe even for the split skills at say level 50+ as soon as you become a member.

 

Also make the first tutorials available via clicking on the skills (left-click if not done, right-click for replay)

 

I personaly hate to many tutorials. I think they only need to teach the basics of the FTP skills. Just like tutorial island. Everything on that island was set around what you'd first do as you play runescape. That would be mining tin and copper, fishing some shrimp. As time goes on you get smarter, naturaly learning how to advance. You'll come across the iron ore only to find you need 15 mining. Then they are likely to get 15 mining.

 

As for becoming members. By the time someone buys members they know the game anyway. Curiousity to explore the open world is enough to keep them engaged and learn on a natural curve. Forcing them into learning about skills would be bad at this point. Because they'll not see all the random little things out there. Instead they'll be like ohh slayer. Where the hells that monster.