Regarding nerf to Juju Mining Potion

[Miss Lioness]

Cheefoo and I got in a discussion about Porters VS Old Juju Mining Potion VS New Juju Mining Potion. But I am also interested in the general opinion here.

 

He believed that the porters is actually superior to the old juju and a nice combination with the new effect of the jujus.

 

For those who doesn't know:

 

The new juju mining potion now smelt gold ore to gold bars and also 'smelt' coal. But smelted coal doesn't yield any bars and is thus removed from inventory, This happens if you find the stone spirit. You'll get the same smithing exp as you would get when smelting Gold ore/Coal to Gold bar/Steel bar.

While under effect of the potion you'll be granted 10% bonus experience to all ore you mine (excl extra ores by star/varrock armour)

 

The old juju mining potion was simple. When you found a stone spirit you would get the ability to auto bank gold ore/coal for the next 30 seconds. This effect would even last if the potion would have ended before all 30 secs were over.

 

Each dose of both jujus last 5 minutes.

 

 

The porters are items that were released with the latest update: Divination.

These items go into your pocket slot (thus no rockcrushing scrimshaws!!!) and will bank up to 30 items depending on which porter you have. For the sake of optimal setups we go for the highest porter: Sign of Porter VI. This item allows you to bank 30 items 100%.

 

 

Now the requirements for both items:

 

The juju mining potion is being made at the Herblore Habitat activity. One would need 1 Samaden herb, 1 Draconic Vine and a juju vial. These have a requirement of 80 Farming, 80 Hunter and 74 Herblore. This potion is made completely DiY and it and all its components are untradeable (besides the vial).

 

Now the porter. As said earlier I'll take the Porter VI. This item requires 80 incandescent energy and 1 Diamond Necklace. You need a Divination level of 99 to make this item. The value of the energy is unknow. The current value of Diamond Necklace is 2700, but I suspect this will be rising. Lets say the total value to make it is 16,000 gp.

 

---

 

Actually my arguments regarding this change and it versus porter:

 

- It actually is a nerf because of a less effective effect compared to the old one.

(Banking ores -> less dropping -> plus some cash; even if you are speed mining)

- Banking the ores nets quite some cash. So the ability of the old Juju was useful for everyone but 1 tiny group. The speed smith + bar droppers. People who wanted fast mining exp by dropping ores could with the old effect atleast get some but of cash.

People who banked all ores had some relaxation.

- This potion makes mining more afk'able.

- Effect of the potion lasts 5 mins, within those 5 mins we bank more ores on average then with the portents.

- It is less inventory space because you can brink up to 6 doses or for 30 minutes in 1 inventory spot. Can you last that long while also banking similar amount with the portents?

- The portents last around 1 min each and the most you can bring with you is about 20 or something if you use urns.

- The method on obtaining the Jujus are very balanced in that it need to be made yourself from scratch.

- In LRC you can just bank aswell so Portents are less usefull there anyways...

- There is probs more, but oh well...

 

Also something I found on the forums:

Mining before update

1 hour mining gold ~ 300k-500k gold

using jujus ~ 80k-100k+ exp

1 juju pot ~ 20 minutes

Urns ~ 10% bonus exp

Mining after update

99 divination ~ 13mill exp

1 diamond necklace per 30 invent ~ (2.2k)

80 incandescent energy (buy limit ge 100) ~ time wasted farming

no room left for urns and portents * exp decrease

juju pot makes bars instead ~ profit decrease

excess banking trips ~ time wasted

former juju pots ~ npc/ time wasted

forced to train skill to 99 for subpar benefits ~ priceless

[michel555555]

Portents bank a max of 30 items, by that alone they were inferior to ju ju.

 

ju ju flasks last for over 30 minutes and would bank alot more per item then portent.

 

you have to take more portents which means you cant bring as many urns.

 

and biggest one can't use portent with scrimshaw.

 

Pretty much with portents you have to spend more time banking now and get less xp because you can't use as many urns or scrimshaw.

[Miss Lioness]

Portents bank a max of 30 items, by that alone they were inferior to ju ju.

 

ju ju flasks last for over 30 minutes and would bank alot more per item then portent.

 

you have to take more portents which means you cant bring as many urns.

 

and biggest one can't use portent with scrimshaw.

 

Pretty much with portents you have to spend more time banking now and get less xp because you can't use as many urns or scrimshaw.

 

As I was saying....

 

On another note they still haven't said anything on the matter since release day.

Here are the posts I could find:

Hey there' date='

 

I already explained this here but I'll reexplain for the purposes of the thread.

 

In Divination, there is an item called Sign of the Porter that will automatically bank resources you collect for you. It has a number of charges, going up for higher level Signs, and it equipped in the pocket slot. Mining Juju's already had this effect so to ensure that players can still benefit from Mining juju's whilst using Signs of the Porter we changed them to do what you described.

 

Whilst I can understand that it's frustrating to have things change from one login to another, the long-term effects should be a positive one so that both functions will work together.

 

Timbo

 

Lord Adai said:

Why not just keep the effects of the old juju mining potion and give the new effects to the divination item?

 

Signs of the Porter works for an incredible amount of different resources and skills, it wouldn't make any sense to add this effect to just the Porters. The Signs are one of the biggest benefits that Divination has to offer and is useful for every gathering skill.

 

Loggy C said:

The sign can only teleport 30 ore before disappearing, even at the highest level.

 

Four doses of juju potion did a lot more than that. You'll now have to run to a real bank an awful lot more.

 

You can carry 28 Signs of the Porter and have one equipped when you start mining, the ore gets automatically teleported meaning that you do not need to make that many bank runs. The jujus will fit nicely with the signs meaning that there aren't two overlapping functions.

 

 

Timbo

[HunterDexter]

In my opinion, it's a poorly thought out nerf. The Portents are used for a multitude of items, the juju potion was exclusive to ores. I really don't understand why the potion had to be changed. Why didn't they already remove the bank ability of the pack yak too?

[Maxingmck]

Its like if they nerfed the nexus/crucible/[insertdeadcontent], it was never good enough to nerf. If you are in the LRC and arent superheating you may aswell be warbanding for mining xp.

[HunterDexter]

Some people mine for profit, not solely for exp, you know. :s I made about 50 million there. :P

[stealthchris117]

Some people mine for profit, not solely for exp, you know. :s I made about 50 million there. :P

 

That is great! We do need people who mine for profit so other can buy the ores they mine and don't have to do it themselves. But I am with the people who say both items could have been in the game without the JuJu potions needing a change. I personally have never even done Herblore Habitat, so I haven't used the potion, but I can see how it is different enough where it would have been kind of a middle ground. Where if you want profit you can use the Sign. If you want Exp you can drop or use JuJu.

 

The part that bugs me the most is if I want to use the Sign I can't use a Scrimshaw....

[michel555555]

Or some people had 99 smith from artisans and had no need of the smithing xp from lrc and just wanted great mining xp.

[Miss Lioness]

The only people I can think of that would use these, is those that drop it regardless... but then again it is a waste for them as the ores would be less worth then the value of the porter.

[Hedgehog]

The easiest way to put this is that it wasn't a nerf; it was a massive buff.

 

Jujus went from an item that provided exactly 0 benefit and costed a decent amount of time. You could even argue that they were a detriment, because they'd cause a player to bank for urns and pouches more often.

 

Now, they provide a 10% increase to xp/hour, at the same cost. I haven't done the math to see if it's worth it, but I think it would be at a glance.

 

Basically, they didn't provide a benefit before, but now they do.

[Miss Lioness]

The easiest way to put this is that it wasn't a nerf; it was a massive buff.

 

Jujus went from an item that provided exactly 0 benefit and costed a decent amount of time. You could even argue that they were a detriment, because they'd cause a player to bank for urns and pouches more often.

 

Now, they provide a 10% increase to xp/hour, at the same cost. I haven't done the math to see if it's worth it, but I think it would be at a glance.

 

Basically, they didn't provide a benefit before, but now they do.

 

A benefit at a cost: Turning gold ores in less valuable gold bars. (or completely removing the ore giving nothing in return for coal). No longer banking the ores so without porters you need to make trips. And porter goes into pocket slot so now rockcrushing scrimshaw, so there we lose extra exp (bout 10% again ;D!?).

 

So in the end you need lots of more items for more difficult usage to retain the same effect the old juju had.

[Hedgehog]

>.<

 

You aren't supposed to use banking in the first place. Drop the ores from now on, please.

[Miss Lioness]

>.<

 

You aren't supposed to use banking in the first place. Drop the ores from now on, please.

 

So, I am not allowed to mine for money?

[Hedgehog]

It's not against the rules. It's just ill-advised.

 

By the way, if you want some better money making suggestions, try filling buckets with sand or picking bananas (use baskets to carry more per inventory).

[Miss Lioness]

It's not against the rules. It's just ill-advised.

 

By the way, if you want some better money making suggestions, try filling buckets with sand or picking bananas (use baskets to carry more per inventory).

 

So you are telling me I should get 99 mining while wasting 35m potential profits to then just go do a mind numbing money making way? But this is all besides the point. It goes about the effects and the hassle it now brings us to get an effect that is alike.

[HunterDexter]

I really don't understand the EXP-mentality these days. :s

I like a pretty AFK way to train my mining and get some money.

[Hedgehog]

It's not against the rules. It's just ill-advised.

 

By the way, if you want some better money making suggestions, try filling buckets with sand or picking bananas (use baskets to carry more per inventory).

 

So you are telling me I should get 99 mining while wasting 35m potential profits to then just go do a mind numbing money making way? But this is all besides the point. It goes about the effects and the hassle it now brings us to get an effect that is alike.

Then stop trying to get something with a similar effect. It's that simple. The effect isn't worth it. It's a shitty effect. Be happy that they scrapped it for something that will actually benefit you.

[Maxingmck]

My point is that you have no reason to complain when you are already using an obviously inferior method

[Miss Lioness]

It's not against the rules. It's just ill-advised.

 

By the way, if you want some better money making suggestions, try filling buckets with sand or picking bananas (use baskets to carry more per inventory).

 

So you are telling me I should get 99 mining while wasting 35m potential profits to then just go do a mind numbing money making way? But this is all besides the point. It goes about the effects and the hassle it now brings us to get an effect that is alike.

Then stop trying to get something with a similar effect. It's that simple. The effect isn't worth it. It's a shitty effect. Be happy that they scrapped it for something that will actually benefit you.

 

Gosh take that Pink-anti-exp-wasting-glasses off!

 

Not everything in RS is determined by the max possible exp/h.

 

In that regard solely maximizing the exp/h, this is indeed better.

 

However, in all other aspects it is vastly inferior in light of above arguments. It is about the balance between players.

People who also want max exp/h with old juju, still used jujus and had anything banked as profit. Is the 7-8k exp/h really worth the afk'ness with missing lots of ores and thus losing potential profit??

[Aiel]

jujus haven't been worth using since the quick hop update, EVEN IF YOU'RE MINING FOR PROFIT. Now they're not only worth using, but provide a significant benefit. Ores turned into bars at zero time lost are worth more then a gold ore, so you really don't loose anything unless you're 99/200m smithing already (56 smithing xp is ~840 gp at artisans, while a gold ore is only 426 gp) .

 

TL;DR: New jujus are better in terms of both gp and xp

[Miss Lioness]

jujus haven't been worth using since the quick hop update, EVEN IF YOU'RE MINING FOR PROFIT. Now they're not only worth using, but provide a significant benefit. Ores turned into bars at zero time lost are worth more then a gold ore, so you really don't loose anything unless you're 99/200m smithing already (56 smithing xp is ~840 gp at artisans, while a gold ore is only 426 gp) .

 

TL;DR: New jujus are better in terms of both gp and xp

 

Well that is a different way to look at. This is probs the first argument that I've seen thus far that could make me reconsider

[PolarBearBlue]

Doesn't this really depends on the type of player you are. HunterDaxter is a player type who doesn't actually benefit from this because he preference ores anyway. Speaking just number these new jujus seem better but player preference really determines who enjoys what. For those who play efficiently this is a win. For everyone else, maybe not...

[Quyneax]

This update won't slow anyone down from reaching their goals. It may change the method they have to use (because banking gold is less viable), but it will be faster (because banking gold already sucked). Being encouraged to attain your goals in another, faster way can't properly be called a nerf, in my opinion.

[Miss Lioness]

Right, but the draw to use these jujus in the first place was because it allows one to afk for longer. Eevn for those who just dropped ores, they had to use less input. Next to it is that it gathers ores so you gained some money.

[PolarBearBlue]

This update won't slow anyone down from reaching their goals. It may change the method they have to use (because banking gold is less viable), but it will be faster (because banking gold already sucked). Being encouraged to attain your goals in another, faster way can't properly be called a nerf, in my opinion.

 

Unless your goal was to collect all the gold ores you mined to 99 mining. :D