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Daemonheim Task Set- 10/9/13

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They're dumb for making the elite rewards for a task set about Daemonheim essentially only useful for gaining DG xp. Amplified by the fact that they could've just as easily made it a 99+ req lamp (or make it usable on DG only) and cement the point they're trying to make, but no, they make it 98+, helping a few people out and flipping the bird to everyone else. As if no one would see it and think, " Oh, I get it. I don't really get to choose where to drop this xp because only a few options make sense. Clever".

That is the stupidest argument against the lamp being 98+ req I've seen. There are 26 skills to level, are you saying that no one has any sitting at 98 that they may want to use a lamp on? Or what about the amount of players who are holding off claiming any of the rewards from the diary to boost div? No one is going to think to do the same for the 98 lamp in any skill they choose to wait for?

Important part bold.

 

He addressed those people with skill levels at 98. What is is also saying, it that Jagex is punishing the population who

A) Skill level is too low to use the lamp except on, and players who do not realize that Jagex wants you to use it on dungeoneering

B) Max players who can not use the lamp until they lift the ban on divination

 

He is also saying making the lamp level 98 was more of a tongue and cheek joke and that they should have made their intention know that if was a "use on dungeoneering" reward by making it 99 instead of teasing players with a 98 level lamp.

 

Hit it right on the nose Polar.

I get how they've passively tried to make it a DG only lamp without exclusively making it a DG lamp, they tried to theme it toward the task set it's self but they've never done that for any other set ( making the rewards dominantly useful to one skill in particular, in this case the skill tied to the Daemonheim area).

I think it was a novel idea that they didn't think about too thoroughly.


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really all their doing is keeping me from using their content until I have 98 in a slow skill. I mean, really jagex? 60k xp is an hour in the slowest skill in game and <20 minutes in most skills. There's no reason for it to have an absurd requirement, I was always under the impression the lamps were to refund us for the time we spend putting up with bullshit tasks (I'm looking at you, frost dragon).


DK drops (solo/LS): 66 hatchets, 14 archer rings, 13 berserker rings, 17 warrior rings, 12 seerculls, 13 mud staves, 7 seers rings

QBD drops: 1 kite, 2 visages, 4 dragonbone kits, 3 effigies, lots of crossbow parts

CR vs. CLS threads always turn into discussions about penis size.
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Not every element of a game can please every player. Just because you want to force a lamp to be useful for you does not mean they are "punishing" you. It is your choice to avoid the rewards until they are most optimal. Not everyone does this. In addition it is highly unlikely that someone will get the reward before they get 98 in at least one skill.

 

Just because you happen to want to eek every single ounce of benefit from something doesn't mean Jagex has to cater to only your play style. Every task has had a lamp at the level of the highest skill requirement of that set. This is done on purpose. 98 crafting was the highest required level.

 

That is how the diaries have been done, and that is how Jagex did this one. Just because you don't think it has that much benefit.. well, you can suck it up and wait on the rewards or you can "waste" the lamp. Not everything needs to be handed to the player to make it easy.

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really all their doing is keeping me from using their content until I have 98 in a slow skill. I mean, really jagex? 60k xp is an hour in the slowest skill in game and <20 minutes in most skills. There's no reason for it to have an absurd requirement, I was always under the impression the lamps were to refund us for the time we spend putting up with bullshit tasks (I'm looking at you, frost dragon).

Refunds aren't rewards.



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Not every element of a game can please every player. Just because you want to force a lamp to be useful for you does not mean they are "punishing" you. It is your choice to avoid the rewards until they are most optimal. Not everyone does this. In addition it is highly unlikely that someone will get the reward before they get 98 in at least one skill.

 

Just because you happen to want to eek every single ounce of benefit from something doesn't mean Jagex has to cater to only your play style. Every task has had a lamp at the level of the highest skill requirement of that set. This is done on purpose. 98 crafting was the highest required level.

 

That is how the diaries have been done, and that is how Jagex did this one. Just because you don't think it has that much benefit.. well, you can suck it up and wait on the rewards or you can "waste" the lamp. Not everything needs to be handed to the player to make it easy.

so you're saying that players don't want their rewards to be useful? :blink:

not everyone will wait until they have a 98 in a slow skill to use a lamp on, whether it's because they value the aura more then ~45 minutes of xp, or because they just don't care that much, but that doesn't mean that they wouldn't prefer the reward to actually do something.

 

 

 

really all their doing is keeping me from using their content until I have 98 in a slow skill. I mean, really jagex? 60k xp is an hour in the slowest skill in game and <20 minutes in most skills. There's no reason for it to have an absurd requirement, I was always under the impression the lamps were to refund us for the time we spend putting up with bullshit tasks (I'm looking at you, frost dragon).

Refunds aren't rewards.

 

Yes they are. Jagex is rewarding you for the time you spent doing the tasks that could have been spent doing something useful (IE gaining xp).


DK drops (solo/LS): 66 hatchets, 14 archer rings, 13 berserker rings, 17 warrior rings, 12 seerculls, 13 mud staves, 7 seers rings

QBD drops: 1 kite, 2 visages, 4 dragonbone kits, 3 effigies, lots of crossbow parts

CR vs. CLS threads always turn into discussions about penis size.
...
It's not called a Compensation Longsword for nothing.

I've sent a 12k combat mission to have Aiel assassinated (poor bastard isn't even Pincers-tier difficulty).

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Not every element of a game can please every player. Just because you want to force a lamp to be useful for you does not mean they are "punishing" you. It is your choice to avoid the rewards until they are most optimal. Not everyone does this. In addition it is highly unlikely that someone will get the reward before they get 98 in at least one skill.

 

Just because you happen to want to eek every single ounce of benefit from something doesn't mean Jagex has to cater to only your play style. Every task has had a lamp at the level of the highest skill requirement of that set. This is done on purpose. 98 crafting was the highest required level.

 

That is how the diaries have been done, and that is how Jagex did this one. Just because you don't think it has that much benefit.. well, you can suck it up and wait on the rewards or you can "waste" the lamp. Not everything needs to be handed to the player to make it easy.

so you're saying that players don't want their rewards to be useful? :blink:

not everyone will wait until they have a 98 in a slow skill to use a lamp on, whether it's because they value the aura more then ~45 minutes of xp, or because they just don't care that much, but that doesn't mean that they wouldn't prefer the reward to actually do something.

 

 

really all their doing is keeping me from using their content until I have 98 in a slow skill. I mean, really jagex? 60k xp is an hour in the slowest skill in game and <20 minutes in most skills. There's no reason for it to have an absurd requirement, I was always under the impression the lamps were to refund us for the time we spend putting up with bullshit tasks (I'm looking at you, frost dragon).

Refunds aren't rewards.

Yes they are. Jagex is rewarding you for the time you spent doing the tasks that could have been spent doing something useful (IE gaining xp).
No.

 

The concept of the task system is to assign a series of tasks that players would complete at random while fully exploring an area. The xp lamps are one-off rewards for completing these tasks and mastering the knowledge of an area.

 

Refunds are things returned to you due to some error. The ring of kinship issues we had in the past are good examples.

 

On another note they should have just made the task system without any tasks announced. That would have been much more fun to see what players stumbled on. Matter of fact the idea of players just "stumbling" onto something makes these types if games way much more fun than just being handed lists of content. We play an MMO, a world to explore, and sadly the majority is pretty much handed to us on a silver platter. Granted we have to work for some of it, but the literal exploration is gone.




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Just because you happen to want to eek every single ounce of benefit from something doesn't mean Jagex has to cater to only your play style. Every task has had a lamp at the level of the highest skill requirement of that set. This is done on purpose. 98 crafting was the highest required level.

 

That's the problem, at least within dungeoneering. The boost for each skill are very high and consistent. Realistically you only need 86 herblore and 87 crafting. 86 herblore to boost to 93 to make that potion that will boost you 93 crafting. A 7 level and 11 level boost outranks the best you can get for those two skills on the surface without assist. Also, the only other task set to have a lamp at the highest skill requirement of that set is the desert task set...

 

It would make sense if we didn't have these ridiculous boost to use, but with 95 dungeoneering being the higher skill level player really needs to have 98 just seems like over kill...or as mentioned before, they really just want you to use this lamp on dungeoneering. Honestly 95 would have been an acceptable level, because that is consistent with lamps. Every lamp in all the previous task sets take into account the highest none boost level you need and are either close to that level or on it.


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@Platinum_Myr

Not every element of a game can please every player. Just because you want to force a lamp to be useful for you does not mean they are "punishing" you.

 

No one is talking about every element. We are talking about an element of a game that has a long precedent of giving a useful reward to a skill of the player's choice. And making rewards but giving strong incentives not to claim them despite meeting the requirements to claim them until much later is certainly a soft punishment from where I am standing.

 

 

 

Just because you happen to want to eek every single ounce of benefit from something doesn't mean Jagex has to cater to only your play style. Every task has had a lamp at the level of the highest skill requirement of that set. This is done on purpose. 98 crafting was the highest required level.

 

That is how the diaries have been done, and that is how Jagex did this one.

 

 

False. The Mortanyia task set had several requirements in the 90's, and some in the med-high 80's, and the highest lamp requirement was 80. The Fremennik task set had several requirements that were 90+, and yet the highest lamp requirement was 89. The Ardougne diary had a few requirements of 90+, and yet all the four 50K lamps (the highest lamps) had a requirement of 85. So no. This is not how they have "always" been done.

 

Furthermore, this is not about squeezing benefit out of everything, this is about getting benefit out things which have had a history of giving benefits. It's not a matter of playing styles. It's a matter of expectations which have been reasonably cultivated.

 

 

That is how the diaries have been done, and that is how Jagex did this one. Just because you don't think it has that much benefit.. well, you can suck it up and wait on the rewards or you can "waste" the lamp. Not everything needs to be handed to the player to make it easy.

 

And yes, we will suck it up, but that doesn't mean this wasn't a stupid thing to do. Just like it was stupid of them to release a Diary last week, but strongly incentivize top players to not collect the rewards until the next week. Releasing a much ballyhooed and anticipated update, but making it so smart players will choose to abstain is not a smart choice.

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One important thing in game design is to have the efficient path* coincide with the 'fun' path, so that the two aren't biting eachother. Jagex often gets this wrong, and this is one case, and the same with the prismatic lamps not being bankable and not being useful. The afk path is unrelated to this, it doesn't have to be fun or efficient.

 

An easy way to fix it would be to allow players to gather bonus experience in a newly released skill, like the Duke's xp, but not being able to use it until after a month. XP rewards like the diary lamps, Duke's, September challenges, Troll Invasion and SoF rewards would be usable if they provided bonus xp under this system.

 


*In RS, that's the path to max/comp probably. But the concept applies to most goals.

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Supporter of Zaros | Quest Cape owner since 22 may 2010 | No skills below 99 | Total level 2595 | Completionist Cape owner since 17th June 2013 | Suggestions

99 summoning (18th June 2011, previously untrimmed) | 99 farming (14th July 2011) | 99 prayer (8th September 2011) | 99 constitution (10th September 2011) | 99 dungeoneering (15th November 2011)

99 ranged (28th November 2011) | 99 attack, 99 defence, 99 strength (11th December 2011) | 99 slayer (18th December 2011) | 99 magic (22nd December 2011) | 99 construction (16th March 2012)

99 herblore (22nd March 2012) | 99 firemaking (26th March 2012) | 99 cooking (2nd July 2012) | 99 runecrafting (12th March 2012) | 99 crafting (26th August 2012) | 99 agility (19th November 2012)

99 woodcutting (22nd November 2012) | 99 fletching (31st December 2012) | 99 thieving (3rd January 2013) | 99 hunter (11th January 2013) | 99 mining (21st January 2013) | 99 fishing (21st January 2013)

99 smithing (21st January 2013) | 120 dungeoneering (17th June 2013) | 99 divination (24th November 2013)

Tormented demon drops: twenty effigies, nine pairs of claws, two dragon armour slices and one elite clue | Dagannoth king drops: two dragon hatchets, two elite clues, one archer ring and one warrior ring

Glacor drops: four pairs of ragefire boots, one pair of steadfast boots, six effigies, two hundred lots of Armadyl shards, three elite clues | Nex split: Torva boots | Kalphite King split: off-hand drygore mace

30/30 Shattered Heart statues completed | 16/16 Court Cases completed | 25/25 Choc Chimp Ices delivered | 500/500 Vyrewatch burned | 584/584 tasks completed | 4000/4000 chompies hunted

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I'm really liking the idea of HHB with Sag coif, body, and chaps now. Desperado + Sniper or Tank, as well as shield abilities and having about equal DPS to other Ranged weapons I think as well as the LP and almost the Def of a Sag shield?

Only considerable now of course since HHB can be effectively hunted for on hard mode floors...


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I'm really liking the idea of HHB with Sag coif, body, and chaps now. Desperado + Sniper or Tank, as well as shield abilities and having about equal DPS to other Ranged weapons I think as well as the LP and almost the Def of a Sag shield?

Only considerable now of course since HHB can be effectively hunted for on hard mode floors...

 

Too bad Hex sucks now. It was decent post-EoC and it was promised that it would get buffed up, but it has since then been nerfed, it seems.

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I'm really liking the idea of HHB with Sag coif, body, and chaps now. Desperado + Sniper or Tank, as well as shield abilities and having about equal DPS to other Ranged weapons I think as well as the LP and almost the Def of a Sag shield?

Only considerable now of course since HHB can be effectively hunted for on hard mode floors...

 

That could be interesting. Can anyone confirm if you can set the secondary ring class to both in the same category? And does tank count with a shield bow?


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I absolutely love the rewards to the Daemonheim task set, especially the extra PGT, potion bind, and free laws/cosmics. I like that we've been given options in terms of opening doors in the form of portents (divination) and free potions. We'll be updating our requirements in DGS for October, likely requiring only the medium task set complete, but heavily suggesting the elite set, too.

 

The tasks themselves are mostly easy, and the level requirements are far easier than most other task sets. The two tasks that are difficult, though, are practically unbearable: the frost dragon and the sagas. It took me around 40 small and medium floors to find my frost dragon, and the sagas are a pain in the ass without a detailed guide and a lot of patience for clunky controls.

 

All in all, I'm very happy with the set. Hard mode is also interesting because it forces the team to be very careful with gate placement such that they don't get stuck in any unnecessary rooms, and it definitely tests their ability to deal out damage as efficiently as possible. I don't see it becoming too popular, but we'll be adding a hard mode section to the official dungeoneering records sheet nonetheless.

 

10/10, but I'm still waiting for my dungeoneering finale, Jagex.

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Oh my god you're alive.

 

 

To stay on topic- Only done easy tasks (bar reset of course) so far, but I have a feeling that the frost dragon may hurt a bit.

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I do believe the shieldbows work with the tank ring


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I'm really liking the idea of HHB with Sag coif, body, and chaps now. Desperado + Sniper or Tank, as well as shield abilities and having about equal DPS to other Ranged weapons I think as well as the LP and almost the Def of a Sag shield?

Only considerable now of course since HHB can be effectively hunted for on hard mode floors...

Hex is about 1.25 units of dps, with one-handed weapons at 1 unit and two-handed/dual-wield weapons at 1.5. So you will definitely be giving up a lot of dps (about 1/6th down from a 2h weapon). In my experience with solo hard mode, the main thing is that you have a hood, body and two attack styles, because ranging everything is going to suck bad.

Supporter of Zaros | Quest Cape owner since 22 may 2010 | No skills below 99 | Total level 2595 | Completionist Cape owner since 17th June 2013 | Suggestions

99 summoning (18th June 2011, previously untrimmed) | 99 farming (14th July 2011) | 99 prayer (8th September 2011) | 99 constitution (10th September 2011) | 99 dungeoneering (15th November 2011)

99 ranged (28th November 2011) | 99 attack, 99 defence, 99 strength (11th December 2011) | 99 slayer (18th December 2011) | 99 magic (22nd December 2011) | 99 construction (16th March 2012)

99 herblore (22nd March 2012) | 99 firemaking (26th March 2012) | 99 cooking (2nd July 2012) | 99 runecrafting (12th March 2012) | 99 crafting (26th August 2012) | 99 agility (19th November 2012)

99 woodcutting (22nd November 2012) | 99 fletching (31st December 2012) | 99 thieving (3rd January 2013) | 99 hunter (11th January 2013) | 99 mining (21st January 2013) | 99 fishing (21st January 2013)

99 smithing (21st January 2013) | 120 dungeoneering (17th June 2013) | 99 divination (24th November 2013)

Tormented demon drops: twenty effigies, nine pairs of claws, two dragon armour slices and one elite clue | Dagannoth king drops: two dragon hatchets, two elite clues, one archer ring and one warrior ring

Glacor drops: four pairs of ragefire boots, one pair of steadfast boots, six effigies, two hundred lots of Armadyl shards, three elite clues | Nex split: Torva boots | Kalphite King split: off-hand drygore mace

30/30 Shattered Heart statues completed | 16/16 Court Cases completed | 25/25 Choc Chimp Ices delivered | 500/500 Vyrewatch burned | 584/584 tasks completed | 4000/4000 chompies hunted

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I'm really liking the idea of HHB with Sag coif, body, and chaps now. Desperado + Sniper or Tank, as well as shield abilities and having about equal DPS to other Ranged weapons I think as well as the LP and almost the Def of a Sag shield?

Only considerable now of course since HHB can be effectively hunted for on hard mode floors...

Hex is about 1.25 units of dps, with one-handed weapons at 1 unit and two-handed/dual-wield weapons at 1.5. So you will definitely be giving up a lot of dps (about 1/6th down from a 2h weapon). In my experience with solo hard mode, the main thing is that you have a hood, body and two attack styles, because ranging everything is going to suck bad.

 

Ah... Good to know about HHB I suppose. Related, but I saw someone with the "of Daemonheim" title today, and asked what binds he used for hard mode. He said SSH, Primal Platebody, 2H, and on- and off-hand Knives. Apparently Knives are better than they should be, but I haven't investigated.

 

How does hard mode even work? As in, how do you activate it? Someone on the RSOF insinuated that only the party leader needs to have access to hard mode for the entire party to enter it. Being no where close to the Divination level required and with no intention of grinding Div soon, I doubt I'll be finishing Elite in the near future.


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I'm really liking the idea of HHB with Sag coif, body, and chaps now. Desperado + Sniper or Tank, as well as shield abilities and having about equal DPS to other Ranged weapons I think as well as the LP and almost the Def of a Sag shield?

Only considerable now of course since HHB can be effectively hunted for on hard mode floors...

Hex is about 1.25 units of dps, with one-handed weapons at 1 unit and two-handed/dual-wield weapons at 1.5. So you will definitely be giving up a lot of dps (about 1/6th down from a 2h weapon). In my experience with solo hard mode, the main thing is that you have a hood, body and two attack styles, because ranging everything is going to suck bad.

 

Ah... Good to know about HHB I suppose. Related, but I saw someone with the "of Daemonheim" title today, and asked what binds he used for hard mode. He said SSH, Primal Platebody, 2H, and on- and off-hand Knives. Apparently Knives are better than they should be, but I haven't investigated.

 

How does hard mode even work? As in, how do you activate it? Someone on the RSOF insinuated that only the party leader needs to have access to hard mode for the entire party to enter it. Being no where close to the Divination level required and with no intention of grinding Div soon, I doubt I'll be finishing Elite in the near future.

 

Knives are better than the hexhunter bow, and slightly worse than the sagittarian shortbow. Knives also force you to give up either the blood necklace or hood, both of which are far more useful than knives.

 

You're prompted to select hard mode when you first attempt to start a floor. Only the party leader needs to have access - anyone can do a hard mode floor so long as the party leader has the elite diary done.


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Oh, alright. I figured maybe the damage wasn't scaled to their speed or something, but he really didn't elaborate, so I'll take your word for it!

Thanks for telling me about hard mode. I'm not sure I even have any friends who can access it anyway, though. :P


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Refunds are things returned to you due to some error. The ring of kinship issues we had in the past are good examples

I consider the 38k token payment for completing the hard tasks a refund for having to buy Rapid Renewal. :grin:

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I'm assuming that the bosses are a high level when playing on hard mode. As a result of this, are primal/t99 drops much more common?

 

I ask because I much prefer dunging solo but getting primal gear to bind is near impossible by myself.


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I'm assuming that the bosses are a high level when playing on hard mode. As a result of this, are primal/t99 drops much more common?

 

I ask because I much prefer dunging solo but getting primal gear to bind is near impossible by myself.

 

 

They seem to have a much better primal rate, yes.


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Good to know, thanks.


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Is there any way to know which floors you've already done on hard mode?

When you finish a hard mode floor it tells you the lowest one you haven't done.

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Barrows drops: Dharok's helm x2, Guthan's helm, Ahrim's top, Hood and skirt, Torag's hammers, Karils skirt, Karil's top, Torag's helm, Verac's skirt, Verac's Flail, Dharok's Platebody.

Dag kings drops: Lost count! :wall:

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