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138 vs. 200: Vote on combat level formula! (not guaranteed content)

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123 combat, RSC for lyfe soN!

 

 

Haha, i agree.. RSC was the best..

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I understand how strength should be excluded. I suppose it could be taken out. Even then it still holds some weight as a damage modifier and bars players access to certain items.

 

Summoning on the other hand is clearly obvious... if you see someone with a steel titan you know what's coming. You know just as much as if you see someone doing a quick switch between melee and magic.

 

Prayer is a good skill to keep in the equation. On a side note its surprising you we don't see prayer expanded to help train skills. Why can't the gods offer us aid in gather material or making items?




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Keep 200, because it removes the 50% dungeoneering penalty I would've suffered at combat level 90-138..

Make it 138, because I was boned with my 99 strength, low attack and low def.


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Keep 200, because it removes the 50% dungeoneering penalty I would've suffered at combat level 90-138..

Make it 138, because I was boned with my 99 strength, low attack and low def.

 

Remove the stupid dungeon penalty completely!!!


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Suddenly, a rage of cries were heard from skillers because "But I raised my Prayer and Summoning! My combat level!!!"

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Instead of excluding strength or removing it, it should become a general combat skill that boosts damage for all combat styles (naturally, that means it must be trained as constitution is) as well as a number of skilling methods (not just fly fishing).

 

Anyway, prayer, constitution and summoning are included in the 138 formula, which alone makes it superior to the 200 formula in my opinion. The exact formula is up for negotiations, but the current one just has to go.

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Would be good to include HP, Prayer and Summoning again. The old formula would work if it would let rangers and mages also reach 138 (or whatever the max will be).


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The current combat formula is almost 100% independent of your combat potential.

The old one at least included pray and summon.

 

The current one also takes in Summoning if it's ones highest skill ;).


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Instead of excluding strength or removing it, it should become a general combat skill that boosts damage for all combat styles (naturally, that means it must be trained as constitution is) as well as a number of skilling methods (not just fly fishing).

 

Anyway, prayer, constitution and summoning are included in the 138 formula, which alone makes it superior to the 200 formula in my opinion. The exact formula is up for negotiations, but the current one just has to go.

 

The only options given are 200 or 138. Between the 2 I think 200 is more accurate. Range and Magic being severely under-represented in 138 makes it completely untenable as a combat level formula. I wouldn't mind a new one, but the old 138 is useless. Summoning is pretty useless combat wise and as Urza mentioned it can be seen. Prayer should be accounted for and so should constitution, but if it comes to prayer/con being accurately represented or mage/range, I'd pick mage/range every time because they are a lot more important.


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The current combat formula is almost 100% independent of your combat potential.

The old one at least included pray and summon.

 

The current one also takes in Summoning if it's ones highest skill ;).

 

In a bad way though :P 99 Attack/Ranged/Magic are nothing like 99 Summoning

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@Gwyn: But everyone thinks that the current formula doesn't consider Summoning at all and that is simply not true. I'm not sure where this misconception comes from, but the combat formula we have now hasn't changed since release of EOC. When current EOC went live the Combat Formula was set to include summoning unlike the beta where it wasn't part of it yet.

 

 

 

Did noone think of that there is also an option to choose a NEW Formula?

 

What about something like this:

 

 

99 att
99 str
99 def
99 hit points
99 summ
99 prayer
99 range
99 magic
------------------
792
Now take 792 X .25 = 198 (+ the 2 Jagex gave us when EOC came out) = lvl 200
This would be a real level 200. 
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Ideally the combat formula would be representative of the max average damage output. Just divide base damage by 10 or 12 and you're good.

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Ideally the combat formula would be representative of the max average damage output. Just divide base damage by 10 or 12 and you're good.

 

Make a formula for that please =3!


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?' Actually, who are you not to be?~ Marianne Williamson

 

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With the exception of melee the new system makes sense and is a bette guide, especially when coupled with EoC.

 

I really don't understand why Prayer (and to a lesser extent Summoning) aren't used in the current combat level calculation.

 

Because when it comes to PvP, there's nothing that prayer offers past level 71 that gives any decent advatage. Soul split will see you die faster as to match the damage reduction of protect or deflect you need to be hitting 5x as much as you're being hit, and turmoil is only a 2% boost over piety, while draining your ppoints faster. Summoning is also immediately obvious by the familiar following them. Why it is part of the combat formula I'll never understand.


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I'm surprised with all their 'listening to the player' and desire for balance they have so far failed to implement the idea of strength as a more universal skill.

 

It just makes sense, all combat styles draw 2 facets from skills: accuracy and damage.

Accuracy would come from honing the specific type of fighting so improve use of its tools (eg archery, spellcasting, swordsmanship etc.) which falls nicely into ranged, magic and attack.

Damage would come from your strength, be it the general muscularness required to fling a large blade/club/whatever around for melee. The upper arm strength to pull a bow tighter or fling a knife harder or to absorb the kickback of a cross bow for ranged. Or the general strength of body and mind to better conduct and form magical energies into the desired form.

 

I'm also kinda surprised they have yet to take up the idea of agility as a combat skill; it'd make sense for defence to come from two components as well - blocking and evasion. Blocking obviously sits well with the defence skill, but evasion would work great as an aspect of agility and could easily supply lots more ways to train and apply it for the rework they wanna do. Would also offer some interesting nuances to shield vs no shield in that sans shield you could evade hits (not take any damage) but would largely be unable to block but with shield you'd have much chance of blocking (reducing damage from the hit) though maybe it'd hinder your evasion chances.

 

But this is rather tangential to the main topic, so I'll stop rambling.

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I don't understand why everyone thinks the current system doesn't count prayer and summoning. I'm 200 combat and my only 99s are defence, summoning, and prayer. Clearly summoning and/or prayer counts as an offensive skill and the current formula is:

Combat = 2 + Defence + max{Attack,Strength,Magic,Range,Prayer,Summoning}


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Both formulas are flawed. Prayer and summoning need to be included, even if its only a negligible amount. I preferred the old formula but it was too stacked towards melee. We need a new formula.

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I don't understand why everyone thinks the current system doesn't count prayer and summoning. I'm 200 combat and my only 99s are defence, summoning, and prayer. Clearly summoning and/or prayer counts as an offensive skill and the current formula is:

 

Combat = 2 + Defence + max{Attack,Strength,Magic,Range,Prayer,Summoning}

 

Your formula is wrong.

It does not count prayer, only summon.

 

Also peoples issue isn't so much that they aren't included at all its the fact they are additive to your combat prowess not a seperate measure.

A level 200 with 1 prayer and 1 summ can do less damage and survive less than a lvl 200 with 99s in both.

By the inclusion of only 1 max stat in the formula it does not relate to a large portion of your combat potential.

 

In the same vein as a the above issue a 100% maxed lvl 200 combat player is far more dangerous than someone with just the 2 99s to get 200 combat.

And a level 200 combat meleer with att+str is far more dangerous than a lvl 200 cmb with just 1 of the 2


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If people's problem with the current system is it not accurately representing combat potential, then I don't think there is a good solution. Right now someone with 99 magic and defence but 70 attack and strength will still appear as a 200 when using melee even though they have a lower combat potential. The only way around this is to have combat level change with gear and use of summoning/prayer/overloads, but then people could swap gear changing their combat level and fooling people. 

What if right clicking their name would show all their combat stats? Just the skill icons with numbers next to them


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You might want to hold your breath Sy. I really think agility could easily be made to influence ranged in some way. I also wouldn't mind seeing it play out something for magic with it as well. I think they could make two new abilities called dodge and parry that uses ability to avoid small and large attacks.

 

Parry - 25% chance to parry 75% in-coming damage over 500 lp. This ability will fail on damage over 2k lp. This ability last for 5 seconds until an attack over 500 lp occures. Each parry attempt will exhaust your agility by two levels. Cooldown is based on agility level.

 

Dodge - 25% chance to dodge an attack over 1k lp or a killing blow at the cost of exhausting yourself. This ability lasts for 5 seconds until an attack over 1k lp occures. Each dodge attempt will exhaust your agility by 3 levels per 1k damage (rounded up) of the dodged attack. Cooldown is based on agility level.

 

Cooldown - Can start at 180 seconds for level 1 agility. Each agility level you earn can knock down the cooldown by 1.5 seconds.

 

Exhaustion examples:

 

Vorago fires a bomb at you potentially dealing 2300 damage. You activate dodge and successfully dodge the attack and take a hit of 9 agility levels.

 

Note: frankly after looking over these two agilities and exhaustion I could easily aee jagex making agility a combat stat. I could see them using the energy meter. They could multiply the energy by 100 like before or give a base energy. Duel wielding could get an increase in dodge chances, but decrease in parry chances. Players wielding two handed weapons could get an increase in parry chances, but a decrease in dodge chances. Shield wielding players could hold the middle ground.




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If people's problem with the current system is it not accurately representing combat potential, then I don't think there is a good solution. Right now someone with 99 magic and defence but 70 attack and strength will still appear as a 200 when using melee even though they have a lower combat potential. The only way around this is to have combat level change with gear and use of summoning/prayer/overloads, but then people could swap gear changing their combat level and fooling people. 

 

What if right clicking their name would show all their combat stats? Just the skill icons with numbers next to them

 

Of course you can never know precisely what someones stats are at a glance, but there are acceptable levels of what you can and can't see, particularly when we are talking about max combat. It's a given that between min and max there will be grey areas because of the myriad ways to level up along the road.

The most simple solutions to account for full combat potential are quite easy:

1) You have 3 combat levels displayed according to what you are attacking with and signified with a small icon or colouring of text.

2) Max combat requires 99s in all the combat stats

Could even combine the above two for a really robust indidication.

 

Just need a good formula to proportion things out into those figures.

That's where the old formula did better than the 200, to be maxed you had to have 99 def, att, str, hp, pray and summ. It's flaw was in the bias that meant range and magers couldn't max without melee stats.

 

Personally I would not be objectionable to a very simple add em all up kinda scenario.

Eg

((att+str)/2)+mage+range+hp+def+(pray/11)+(summ/11) = 513

Maybe not the most elegant of outcomes but at least the number would have more meaning in terms of your overall combat potential and to be max would truely require maxing combat stats.

 

I went for dividing by 11 to avoid needless decimals on pray and summ, but of course there are many ways the whole thing could be mixed up, could divide the whole lot by 2 and add 4 for a tidier max of 260 for example. Or bring agile in to take it to 612 then there's all sorts of nice ways to tidy it up:

Add 3 or add 8 for 615 or 620

divide by 2 and add 4 for 310

divide by 3 and add 6 for 210

divide by 4 and add 2 for 155 or add 7 for 160 - heck with the add 7 you could even make it +1 for each 'core' combat stat that is maxed (att, str, def, range, mage, hp and agile)


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Frankly you don't need summoning to EVER be in the formula. If you can't see them with a steel titan out you deserve to be speced out (assuming its possible when EOS comes).

 

I feel like we are beating a dead horse here.




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Frankly you don't need summoning to EVER be in the formula. If you can't see them with a steel titan out you deserve to be speced out (assuming its possible when EOS comes).

 

I feel like we are beating a dead horse here.

 

Because it is in no way possible at all for a pker to come out you and THEN summon a steel titan to pound on you thereby surprising you.

 

Summoning ought to be included because of this exact situation - it stops people hiding the potential by going in without a summon and then suddenly bringing one out to play.


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Frankly you don't need summoning to EVER be in the formula. If you can't see them with a steel titan out you deserve to be speced out (assuming its possible when EOS comes).

 

I feel like we are beating a dead horse here.

Because it is in no way possible at all for a pker to come out you and THEN summon a steel titan to pound on you thereby surprising you.

 

Summoning ought to be included because of this exact situation - it stops people hiding the potential by going in without a summon and then suddenly bringing one out to play.

I guess you have a good point.



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Hey, how about something like..

 

(atk+str+def+hp+prayer+mage+range+summon)=combat level?

 

If you are max'd, your combat will be 792

 

The color of the "Combat-Level xxx" will be based on your highest offense stat. If you have 99 magic, def, hp, prayer, and summon, you'll have "Combat-Level 495"

 

If you are maxed and are using a range weapon, it will show up as "Combat-Level 792"

 

 


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