Was it really EoC that ruined RuneScape?

[muggiwhplar]

 

I think you're just too sensitive to participate in competitive activities. It's human nature to be aggressive under such circumstances.

You'll see the same thing in competitive Pokemon: a game that, by its very nature, requires you to turn in your Man Card^tm

 

:twss:

I'll trade my man card for a 1st edition charizard any day.

[HunterDexter]

I think you're just too sensitive to participate in competitive activities. It's human nature to be aggressive under such circumstances.

 

 

Might be, I play because I can relax, not to get insulted constantly. I think most non-PVPers would feel the same way.

[muggiwhplar]

 

I think you're just too sensitive to participate in competitive activities. It's human nature to be aggressive under such circumstances.

 

Might be, I play because I can relax, not to get insulted constantly. I think most non-PVPers would feel the same way.

If your goal is to relax then you should stay far away from competitive activities. Dangerous PvP is like, the opposite of relaxing lol.

[V O R K]

Put chat off

 

Put TS on

 

ahh, the good life

 

Been insulted everywhere, I should quit all my activities if that's your reasoning. Nomore visiting GE :(

[HunterDexter]

Haven't been insulted ingame since 2007, so you understand why I like the wilderness empty. :p

[Swing Doom]

^I do so wish they would stop pretending legacy is anything more than original momentum buffed up to what it should've been (comparable to full manual, but still not quite as good) with a nice shiny reskin to make it look like pre-NIS and hide ability bar.

 

After all all the other 'features' are nothing to do with legacy and are just general fixes to eoc (combat formula, poison tweaks, specials, changes to armour stats etc)

Even with momentum abilities randomly get used by your character.

[Sy_Accursed]

 

^I do so wish they would stop pretending legacy is anything more than original momentum buffed up to what it should've been (comparable to full manual, but still not quite as good) with a nice shiny reskin to make it look like pre-NIS and hide ability bar.

 

After all all the other 'features' are nothing to do with legacy and are just general fixes to eoc (combat formula, poison tweaks, specials, changes to armour stats etc)

Even with momentum abilities randomly get used by your character.

 

I said ORIGINAL momentum for a reason, the original implementation did not use abilities, that was tweaked in after launch and then expanded on with the ults.

[ilovecuttingyews]

 

120k people online + 30k bots

- 30k bots = 90k people online

EoC hits = 10k people quit

OSRS = 20k go to OSRS

 

60k + 20k = 80k players +10k quitters + 30k bots = 120k people

 

There you go, mystery solved.

 

It's not quite that simple. All the data reveals, when I last looked at it, a MASSIVE reduction in the amount of players online, active accounts, traffic to the site, google hits. It was a lot more serious than just 10K quitters, and those who went to OSRS.

Between the bot nuke and the last day that the highscores were P2P exclusive the number of members went from ~575k to ~485k. A 16% drop over 30 months is not really what I would call "massive" considering the trends of the entire MMO market.

 

*I know using 2 data points is VERY bad, but the start and end of P2P only highscores had very similar bot numbers and the time in between had a lot of crazy things happening with bots, trial memberships, and the like.

[Yoko Kurama]

 

 

 

Given the nature of the PVPcommunity: I'm glad they are mostly gone now.

Given the nature of the effiency crowd, i'm glad how Jagex made it all much too easy now.

 

Really? After a long day you don't love to unwind with a few other people? Shame man, minigames and free for all is so much fun. 

 

 

Nope, don't like getting screamed at just because I owned them in combat. I don't want to know what they've supposed to have done to my mother, what I should do with their genitals, how much I know how to hack into their computer/Jagex computers. And certainly don't want their entitlement that all RuneScape is about is PVP and thus everything should be catered to them when they start crying.

 

I do love minigames, but I don't like the macho-crybaby culture involved within the PVP scene.

 

Theres idiots everywhere, not just PVP. Dont go judging people. I don't assume every black guy steals watermelons because its their life and soul and I don't expect every PVPer is an a hole that has his way with alot of mothers. When opinions conflict you all get crybaby culture. Me, you. This threads full of it.

 

 

There is no harm in judging people based on their behavior, often it is accurate and merited. The fact of the matter is that being a loudmouth douchebag was part of the PVP culture. It simply was. There is no point in trying to walk past this fact. That's just how the PVP community was, and they encouraged people to behave that way. Shouting profanities at people along the lines of "D clawz up ur mum's ass" and stuff of that sort, trolling people, griefing them, was very much the norm. Not all PKers were this way, but it was clearly a large part of the community. It is what it is.

[God Of Lego]

 

 

 

 

Given the nature of the PVPcommunity: I'm glad they are mostly gone now.

Given the nature of the effiency crowd, i'm glad how Jagex made it all much too easy now.

 

Really? After a long day you don't love to unwind with a few other people? Shame man, minigames and free for all is so much fun. 

 

 

Nope, don't like getting screamed at just because I owned them in combat. I don't want to know what they've supposed to have done to my mother, what I should do with their genitals, how much I know how to hack into their computer/Jagex computers. And certainly don't want their entitlement that all RuneScape is about is PVP and thus everything should be catered to them when they start crying.

 

I do love minigames, but I don't like the macho-crybaby culture involved within the PVP scene.

 

Theres idiots everywhere, not just PVP. Dont go judging people. I don't assume every black guy steals watermelons because its their life and soul and I don't expect every PVPer is an a hole that has his way with alot of mothers. When opinions conflict you all get crybaby culture. Me, you. This threads full of it.

 

 

There is no harm in judging people based on their behavior, often it is accurate and merited. The fact of the matter is that being a loudmouth douchebag was part of the PVP culture. It simply was. There is no point in trying to walk past this fact. That's just how the PVP community was, and they encouraged people to behave that way. Shouting profanities at people along the lines of "D clawz up ur mum's ass" and stuff of that sort, trolling people, griefing them, was very much the norm. Not all PKers were this way, but it was clearly a large part of the community. It is what it is.

 

Sure, alot were like that. Unmissable. But to simply desregard peoples feelings towards eoc because of a few loud mouths? Idiotic. You don't throw a whole type of playerbase away over it. And it does not justify EoCs mistakes and damage

[HunterDexter]

My dissatisfication with PVPers was just a personal opinion, while I would like them out of *my* game, I would do a lot to get them back if I were Jagex.

But Legacy isn't te solution to me. The damage has been done, clans were fated to go extinct after the removal of trade and wilderness. EOC was the final straw which eliminated the last standing PVPers. Getting that whole system of clans back up when there isn't that much playerbase growth is very hard. Most players now are now trying to get maxed/comped, that's a whole different mindset than a PKer. So I really doubt the PK clans will ever come back.

[Sy_Accursed]

I always thought Jagex are going about trying to give cpr to pvp backwards - they are focussing in on the most nuanced, exclusive element of pvp (outright pking) which has the least current player base interest left in the game.

 

To me step 1 would be working with the community they do have to sort out pvp minigames - there is still a degree of interest in them and with the right reward tweaks and fixes to mechanics they could probably stimulate a fair bit of gameplay.

This is step one as it takes the players you already have and gets them back into pvp content, which helps to stir up interest in my hardcore pvp and helps to highlight what is and is not working in pvp for it to be worked on for the wilderness.

Step 2 would then be focussing on getting new players in. If you want to rebuild a pk community, you need to get fresh blood in because frankly most pkers quit so the old hats players left aren't going to magically become interested in pking when most of them weren't interested to begin with.

Step 3 would then be to deal with incentives to pk - people want rewards and metagame that works these days, and frankly kids in welfare gear ain't gonna cut it for that. By incentives I do NOT mean create skiller content in there to mindless herd cannon fodder in for pkers to 'pwn' - I mean deal with the drop mechanics of straight up head to head pvp.

Step 4 would then be honing, with pk hopefully being off cpr at this point you can work with the community to iron out kinks and make the thing work right.

 

But Jagex seems insistent on focussing on step 4, which just seems crazy since they don't have the pkers there to really solidly test it out, they don't have a good rewarding reason for people to pk in place and they don't have the safe pvp experiences that build people up to trying out dangerous pvp working well enough to draw players in and drive traffic that way. It's like they are sitting around a committee table debating the best way to place bus routes to deal with traffic and transport demands for a town they haven't even started building, when to anyone else it'd make sense to build the town, chuck in a few basic bus routes and THEN tweak them once the traffic and demands are there playing out in front of you.

[Quasar]

it seems to me that an obvious fix would be to have bh/pvp world type randomly generated drop tables, but ensure that any loot over a certain value threshold, say 500k, is dropped as-is, making it worth it to fight players who are risking.

[Ts_Stormrage]

Killing Free Trade and the Wilderness killed F2P, and it has never recovered.

 

What we are left with is a playerbase that is willing to invest in its character, with both money and time, and it is from these that Jagex still profits... However, this is a dangerous game for them, as they cannot afford to lose 5k players to yet another bad upodate... EoC is an example of such an update, which they had to invent OSRS and Legacy for to control some of the damage...

This is also the reason why they are involving us so much with the larger projects in the pipeline (like Prifdinnas)

 

That said, I think everyone agrees with me that you need more short-term players to get more long-term players, which means you need to make F2P as accessible as possible...

 

Fortunately, and I have this from a reliable source, Legacy will in all likelihood be featured in F2P as well...

 

I don't think, however, that the wilderness for P2P will ever be brought back to its former glory...

[@Dan3HitU]

 

You can?

How do you do it?

 

I meant keep the old static layout/tabs.

I was assuming you meant something like this, which kind of has a similar effect. A few tweaks could get that close to what you seem to want.

Perhaps @Alg, @@Dan3HitU is possibly looking more for this one on the same page (http://forum.tip.it/topic/163183-post-all-rs-screenshots-videos-and-sounds-here/page-4107?do=findComment&comment=5470125) from @Miss Lioness???  It has a lot less in its' design for someone to have to handle all at the same time, and seems more reminiscent of the older RS2HD-style and previous stuff.

 

~D. V. "Just a Second Opinion" Devnull

 

 

 

(p.s.: Yeah, I caught wind of this thread while checking new content.  Please don't expect me to get crazy with diving into this board in general.)

 

 

 

[Multiple late edits by post author, caused by current post rate on this thread, and missed thoughts.]

 

 

I guess that seems the closest to what I was hoping for, sadly they don't provide exactly what I was after :(

Personally I don't like that when you click for a new interface to appear (say armour, then backpack, then prayers, etc) it then automatically loads a tab and if you have too many in a set space it provides you with arrows to go through your open interface tabs, I'd like this removed entirely and just have them all active like on the old-style layout (sorry, this seems very hard to explain in text).

 

[@Dan3HitU]

To target a new audience, do any of you think it's about time they made RuneScape playable through tablets? I mean, with low detail/safe mode obviously, otherwise the tablets will overheat and break.

[@Dan3HitU]

EoC didn't ruin the game, but a change in a combat system did make me not want to log in anymore. I lost as many friends to EoC as I did to restricted trade in the end of 07

 

I completely agree with the losing friends section, I'd say over 90% of my Friends list now is simply inactive/quit. This may sound weird, but it's hard to find friends these days for myself as most of them tend to just want to add me because they remember my name from something, that to me is hardly a friend.

[Ammako]

I guess that seems the closest to what I was hoping for, sadly they don't provide exactly what I was after :(

Personally I don't like that when you click for a new interface to appear (say armour, then backpack, then prayers, etc) it then automatically loads a tab and if you have too many in a set space it provides you with arrows to go through your open interface tabs, I'd like this removed entirely and just have them all active like on the old-style layout (sorry, this seems very hard to explain in text).

I know exactly what you mean, and yes that is terrible interface design.

[D. V. Devnull]

<<<Mega-Snip>>>

 

I guess that seems the closest to what I was hoping for, sadly they don't provide exactly what I was after

Have a laugh.  I was just hunting screenshots on a single page, and Jagex never quite has had common sense about their design.

 

 

Personally I don't like that when you click for a new interface to appear (say armour, then backpack, then prayers, etc) it then automatically loads a tab and if you have too many in a set space it provides you with arrows to go through your open interface tabs, I'd like this removed entirely and just have them all active like on the old-style layout (sorry, this seems very hard to explain in text).

I get exactly what you mean, and hearing that description tells me exactly one more reason I'm glad I didn't continue playing after EOC arrived.  Playing gets cumbersome if you're trying to reach across a tab scroller when you're in a tight situation, even in PvM like Dungeoneering.  Heck, I can see it now, myself being buried in 20 disorganized tabs in such a thing in a tiny box on the bottom right. To me, that would be a massive headache, and it would probably make me ragequit once more from the overload of lost time from interface fiddling while playing, and I'm someone who never played as an efficiency nut!

 

~D. V. "You're welcome, and thanks for saving me from insanity's return." Devnull

[Quasar]

The solution is unfortunately just to design your own complex interface that has all the features you want, for instance, this functional but ugly monstrosity.

 

[Wkw]

I agree. I have always played RS as a solo player. Back in 2007, EARLY 2007, mind, all I did was barrows. I didn't need people to do barrows with. I had a lot of friends who did barrows with, but they were not require. I loved that.  Most other bosses at that time (KQ, KBD, and later GWD) required teams, and thats fine.

 

Then came dungeeoneering, which more or less REQUIRED a group of five people to do. I did not like that. As time went on, they created more and more things that require groups... Which I do not liked. For me, thats what forced me away from the game. Needed money to make money, needed experience to get experiences.

 

That, and all the way through 2008 I got horribly screwed over by lootshare, much to the point where my bandos duo partner got several rares and the single tassets I got over several months was half my bank.

[Sy_Accursed]

Personally I never saw the argument of 'getting lost' in tabs or scrollbars in a tight spot for NIS - its easily avoidable just set your darn interface up well instead of whining and not trying.

 

Don't want scrolls on the tabs? Work out how to place what you actually use and no more to avoid scrolls appearing.

Worried about 'getting lost'? Engage your brain and layout tabs in a way that works for you, no reason to get 'lost' in them in a tight spot because you should know exactly what you put where and shouldn't be placing stuff in a way thats gonna be difficult to get at if you need it in a pinch. There is 0 reason to make overly cluttered layouts or cause scrolls bars or anything.

 

For example, this is my layout on my mac, which has a smaller screen size than I'd like:

 

Everything perfectly accessible that I need.

Got the map, got a side panel similar to the pre-nis that holds invent, gear, stats, familiar/pet and minigame (causes a scrollbar, but not really an issue as I either need it (eg ports) or can swap out and ignore (eg dg ring)).

Then got all the chats, chat related and emotes stuff in my nice base box with prayers for easy access, magic for skilling spells/teleports/setting autocasts and def/hp on hand for if I need to grab a heal etc for my bar thats not usually on there.

I don't need anything else on hand all the time, so I don't have it there - no getting lost, no un-needed scrolling, just everything to hand.

 

Meanwhile on my desktop where I have better screen res:

Boom extra vertical space used to get prayers on screen all the time

Extra horizontal space used to get magic, def/hp, emotes and notes outta chat so I can chat whilst using them easy.

Job done, still just as clean and even more accessible.

 

Does it take a bit of time and effort to get a layout that works for you? Certainly. But there is nothing necessitating making it cluttered, making it develop scroll bars or make it something you 'get lost' in in a tight spot. About the only time it can become problematic is if you have insanely small screen resolution for this day and age. I mean my mac 1280 x 800 is kinda a puny resolution by modern standards and even that is workable.

[D. V. Devnull]

The solution is unfortunately just to design your own complex interface that has all the features you want, for instance, this functional but ugly monstrosity.

 

Image linked from http://puu.sh/90Q6P.png, click to view.

<*sees image, has heartattack and collapses due to how bad an interface overload that is*>

 

~D. V. "AUGH!  [THUD]" Devnull

[Fire_Hawk154]

It wasn't EOC that killed RuneScape, but many poor decisions in a row. Jagex gave F2P quite some updates that made players quit. Removing PvP from the Wilderness, taking away the hiscores, putting Clan Wars in the most laggy server, removal of free trade and now bombing F2P with P2P advertisements. No wonder most F2P worlds are empty. F2P used to have alot to offer to both free players and ex-members. But since minigames and PvP are dead, there is no point for ex-members to log in except for buying Bonds.

[God Of Lego]

It wasn't EOC that killed RuneScape, but many poor decisions in a row. Jagex gave F2P quite some updates that made players quit. Removing PvP from the Wilderness, taking away the hiscores, putting Clan Wars in the most laggy server, removal of free trade and now bombing F2P with P2P advertisements. No wonder most F2P worlds are empty. F2P used to have alot to offer to both free players and ex-members. But since minigames and PvP are dead, there is no point for ex-members to log in except for buying Bonds.

Its crazy how one company can mess up so much. There are 1000s of clear warnings each time. Yet they go ahead because pride.